KRTH Z to A Labor Day Weekend

[oldies76]

As for his most recent mix of misinformation...(that Latinos don't like Oldies).....I would counter that LOTS of Hispanics listen to Oldies. Ever been to a low-rider car show? No white guys there. Remember Huggy Boy? Hero in the Latino community. Unknown amongst Anglos. Remember KRLA? Big Latino audience. You can even hear the callers to K-Earth, they often have accents and surnames that reflect a Latino heritage. The amount of Motown and soul on KRTH also suggests to me there are some African-American listeners too.

Your right, Hispanics do listen to oldies. Proof is, why would KRTH play oldies & classic hits geared towards them. They rotate heavily: "Low Rider", "Suavecito", "Oye Como Va" and other Santana hits, even "If I Could Fall in Love" by Selena.

How about "La Bamba" & "Tequilla"? Obviously, with a huge hispanic population in Socal, K-Earth will play these and others to attract and keep these demos.

On the other hand, WCBS in NYC, even with its large hispanic population does not play these nearly as frequent as KRTH.
Same goes for Motown hits.

 

[davideduardo]

Your right, Hispanics do listen to oldies. Proof is, why would KRTH play oldies & classic hits geared towards them. They rotate heavily: "Low Rider", "Suavecito", "Oye Como Va" and other Santana hits, even "If I Could Fall in Love" by Selena.

Those were all big CHR hits here in LA. KIIS burned the heck out of the Selena song because it researched through the roof on Anglos. Same with the other stuff. In fact, you nearly never hear Santana songs in Latin America, disproving your theory.

Selena, until after her murder, was not even played on Spanish stations in LA; she was a Tejano artist, and we are not in Texas.

How about "La Bamba" & "Tequilla"?

"Tequila" is not a Latin tune. It is an American group that simply liked the sound of calling an instrumental after their favorite beverage. You probably think "Mamma Mia" is an Italian song.

By your logic, the Grateful Dead is also an Hispanic group because of Jerry Garcia.

Obviously, with a huge hispanic population in Socal, K-Earth will play these and others to attract and keep these demos.

Playing 5 songs is not going to attract Hispanics... the songs are there for the overall audience because they are LA hits that still test broadly.

On the other hand, WCBS in NYC, even with its large hispanic population does not play these nearly as frequent as KRTH. Same goes for Motown hits.

First, Hispanics represent well over double the LA population as they do in NY. And Blacks are three times the percentage of NY's MSA as they are in LA. So your point makes no sense.

If your point was valid, NY would play more Motown and LA more Richie Valens songs. But, as everyone but you knows, the playlists in NY were very different from those in LA in the 50's and 60's and 70's, so a percentage of what tests here will not test in NY and so on.

Playing "Volare" which was top 5 in 1959 or so does not make a station Italian targeted.

 

[davideduardo]

Your right, Hispanics do listen to oldies.

Actually, to use the correct term, they listen to Spanish (Language) Adult Hits on KRCD. KRCD is all 70's to 90's music. Oh, and KLVE is a gold based AC... which beats KRTH in every sales demo that matters.

 

[oldies76]

"Tequila" is not a Latin tune. It is an American group that simply liked the sound of calling an instrumental after their favorite beverage. You probably think "Mamma Mia" is an Italian song.

By your logic, the Grateful Dead is also an Hispanic group because of Jerry Garcia.

Huh, you're being serious right??

Playing 5 songs is not going to attract Hispanics... the songs are there for the overall audience because they are LA hits that still test broadly.

Test broadly by whom?? Yes by some Hispanics most likely...If they represent a significant portion of the L.A. population, then what are the chances a Hispanic sat in on a music test? You know very well that these songs are repetitious on KRTH, in a city with a large Hispanic population. Yeah, probably not to directly attract them, but to keep them as potential listeners of that station.

Playing "Volare" which was top 5 in 1959 or so does not make a station Italian targeted.

It was #1 nationally in 1958....What is the Italian population in L.A.?? Not nearly as significant as Mexicans or other Hispanics. Besides, it's just one song. I'm sure if any Italian listeners tuned in 1958, they'd appreciated it at the time.

 

[davideduardo]

By your logic, the Grateful Dead is also an Hispanic group because of Jerry Garcia.

Huh, you're being serious right??

No, I am pointing out how ridiculous it is of you to suggest Tequila is a song liked by Hispanics just because it has a Spanish name.

Playing 5 songs is not going to attract Hispanics... the songs are there for the overall audience because they are LA hits that still test broadly.

Test broadly by whom?? Yes by some Hispanics most likely...If they represent a significant portion of the L.A. population, then what are the chances a Hispanic sat in on a music test?

Stations do not test the general population. They test mostly the heavier listeners to the station or to the format, in the case of having multiple stations in a single format. They would likely test mostly non-Hispanic whites, with perhaps a small group of Hispanics.

In some cases, we see stations test only a segment of their audience. For example AC stations often test only with women although they typically have 40% or so male listeners. The reason is that such a station will do nothing to displease women, such as playing a song men like but women don't. Same with KRTH... their biggest audience segment is non-Hispanic whites, and they will first and foremost serve that group, an only play something Hispanics like more if the non-Hispanic whites also like it a lot. If they don't, KRTH will never, ever play such a song.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

How about "La Bamba" & "Tequilla"? Obviously, with a huge hispanic population in Socal, K-Earth will play these and others to attract and keep these demos.

They play La Bamba and Tequila at the oldies station in Anchorage too.....so????

 

[pjc1961]

Where are you getting this data

Arbitron.

...that most people do not listen to hits from the past??

Don't misquote me, please. Your paraphrase is nothing like what I said. I said that most people do not listen to "pure" oldies, classic hits or 80's hits formats. Just look at the numbers. Many people listen to stations that may include some of those songs, but with songs from other decades (Jack) or currents (most AC stations).

And many people, such as the 30% of the US that is Black or Hispanic, barely listen to those formats at all.

As Scooty430 mentions..WCBS is #1 in NYC

Well, it's not #1 in any demo. It is not even top 10 in 18-49, and even in 55+ it is beaten by WABC and WOR In all cases, the shares are not even 1/20th of the listening in the market.

...a city and suburb with a population of 19,750,000, according to Wikipedia.

Arbitron does not use Wikipedia. The 12+ metro population (the data used by Arbitron) of the NY metro survey area is 15.3 million.

If CBS-FM is #1, then what does that tell you?? that most do not listen to oldies, classic hits and 80's music? C'mon!

In most of the major makrkets, no music station gets more than a 5 to 6 share. In 18-49, WCBS-FM gets a mid-4 share, meaning at any given time, only 1 in about every 22 people listening to radio is listening to WCBS FM.

A mid-4 share in NY is great, but it illustrates that no station today "owns" its market and that all stations are essentially niche plays.

Why would a station that is #1, risk it and play thousands of "stiffs" as you call them in A to Z order?

It's not #1, and it is NOT listened to by over 12 million people in New York.

From AllAccess.com - August PPM "pre-currency" numbers for some major markets (overall numbers not included):

New York: Clear Channel Dominates; Power Overtakes Hot; Urban Shares Competitive

CLEAR CHANNEL's New York cluster continues its strong performance in the Big Apple, scoring 3 of the top 4 stations 18-34, the top 4 25-54, and the top 5 18-49 - really an amazing feat in any market - much less in the largest market in America.

25-54: CLEAR CHANNEL lands the top four spots. Classic Rock WAXQ (Q104) and Top 40 WHTZ (Z100) tie for 1st place. AC WLTW (Lite-FM), who was #1 in July, slips to 3rd. Rhythmic AC WKTU is a solid 4th. Four of the next five stations are ethnic targeted stations. EMMIS Urban AC WRKS ranks 5th. SBS Tropical WSKQ is a steady 6th. CBS Classic Hits WCBS-FM (the one non-ethnic station in this group) is 7th. CLEAR CHANNEL Urban WWPR is 8th, with INNER CITY Urban AC WBLS, CBS AC WWFS, and CITADEL Hot AC WPLJ tied for 9th. It should be noted that all three Urban formatted stations in New York rank top 10 25-54.

CBS News WINS and EMMIS Rhythmic WQHT (Hot 97) tie for 12th. WQHT took a major drop from July to August. CBS takes the 14th through 16th positions with Sports WFAN, News WCBS-AM, and Rock WXRK respectively. SBS Spanish Contemporary WPAT ranks 17th - definitely lower than where it was in the diary. UNIVISION Tropical WCAA is 18th, CITADEL Talk WABC is 19th, and EMMIS Triple A WRXP rounds out the top 20. WRXP has yet to gain any traction and is the lowest rated New York FM in demo (sans Classical WQXR). WQXR doesn't make the top 20 in any saleable demo.

18-49: An almost unheard of performance here as CLEAR CHANNEL lands the top 5 stations in the follwing order: Z100 (#1), WKTU and WLTW (tied for #2), WAXQ (#4), and WWPR (#5). WSKQ was the top non-CC station at #6. The fall of WQHT helped WWPR sneak into the top 5 as "Hot 97" drops from 5th to 7th. WPLJ was 8th, tied with WWFS, while WRKS rounds out the top 10. WBLS takes 11th, with CBS scoring the next four stations with WCBS-FM (#12), WXRK (#13), WINS (#14), and WFAN (#15). WPAT continues to slide and now ranks 16th. WCAA and WCBS-AM tie for 17th, WRXP is 19th, and UNIVISION Regional Mexican WQBU is 20th.

18-34: It wasn't even a contest here as Z100 absolutely scores domination. They have 45% more share than the #2 station - which is now sister WWPR. WQHT slides from 2nd to 3rd, with WKTU tied with WSKQ for 4th. WLTW, WXRK, WWFS, WBLS, and WAXQ round out the top 10.

Los Angeles: Clean Sweep For KIIS; Jack, KROQ, KSCA Strong

CLEAR CHANNEL Top 40 KIIS remains the market leader. While the KIIS shares can't be compared to their amazing run in the mid 80's, their success is probably the closest to KIIS's heyday - prior to the launch of EMMIS Rhythmic KPWR (Power 106) in 1986. KIIS clocks in as the top station with adults 18-34, 18-49, and 25-54 again in August. Here's a look inside the specific demos:

25-54: KIIS scores a victory here - and scores their widest margin of victory yet. CBS Adult Hits KCBS-FM (Jack-FM) remains strong, ranking 2nd. UNIVISION watches Regional Mexican KSCA (La Nueva) rise to 3rd, with sister KLVE 4th. CBS Alternative KROQ rounds out the top 5 but was down significantly from July. SBS Regional Mexican KLAX (La Raza) is 6th. CITADEL watches Classic Rock KLOS soar to 7th, up from 12th in July. LIBERMAN Regional Mexican KBUE (QUE BUENA) is tied for 8th with CLEAR CHANNEL AC KOST, with sister Hot AC KBIG (104-3 My-FM) rounding out the top 10.

UNIVISION Spanish Adult Hits KRCD (RECUERDO) ties with CBS Classic Hits KRTH for 11th - both sliding out of the top 10 from July. EMMIS Rhythmic KPWR (Power 106) is 13th, tied with CBS Smooth AC KTWV, and SBS Latin Urban KXOL. KXOL, which has gained some ground recently on Power has slowly incorporated more hip-hop into their mix over the last two years. The top AM station in LOS ANGELES belongs to CLEAR CHANNEL Talk KFI, which ranks 16th. Sister Rhythmic AC KHHT is now 17th (and has been sliding of late). CLEAR CHANNEL Alternative KYSR moves to 18th place (up a tick from July). ENTRAVISION Spanish Adult Hits KLYY (JOSE) is 19th, with LIBERMAN Mexican Oldies KHJ (LA RANCHERA) tying for 20th with PASADENA CITY COLLEGE Talk KPCC.

CBS still has challenges with FM Talk KLSX, which came in 22nd - tied with ENTRAVISION Spanish Contemporary KSSE. EMMIS Rhythmic AC (which has made some additional music adjustments the last few weeks) is 24th. They have closed the gap rank wise on KHHT. MT. WILSON Country KKGO slips to 25th, just ahead of SALEM Christian AC KFSH (The Fish). Other stations of note: BONNEVILLE did see some minor growth for Triple A KSWD (THE SOUND) which climbed to 27th. The Urban shares in L.A. continue to struggle. MAGIC Urban KDAY ties for 36th, with TAXI Urban AC KJLH 41st.

18-49: KIIS is a dominant #1 here - beating KROQ by 36%. KCBS-FM is a solid 3rd, with Spanish stations grabbing the next four positions respectively: KSCA, KLVE, KLAX, and KBUE. KBIG ranks 8th, with KLOS and KOST tied for 9th. KPWR drops out of the top 10 18-49, slipping to 11th. KRCD slides from 9th to 12th. KXOL climbs to 13th and has closed the gap on Power 106. KYSR moves up to 14th place, pulling ahead of KRTH. KLYY slides back to 16th, KTWV is 17th and KHHT 18th (all separated by just a tenth each). KSSE, KFI, and KMVN are tied for 19th (with the latter cracking the top 20 for the first time). KLSX is 22nd, with KHJ, KKGO, and KPCC tied for 23rd.

18-34: KIIS wins here by a landslide, finishing 46% ahead of KROQ - who climbs from 3rd to 2nd. KLAX dips from 2nd to 3rd, with KPWR holding in 4th. KLAX does still edge out rival KSCA, who is 5th. KXOL vaults from 10th to 6th. KLVE is 7th. KBIG and KBUE tie for 8th with KRCD 10th.

Chicago: Bonneville Still In High Gear; WOJO, WLS-FM Surge

BONNEVILLE continues to see huge success in CHICAGO with Classic Rock WDRV (THE DRIVE) and Hot AC WTMX (THE MIX). Gold-based AC WILV (LOVE-FM) also remains in a logjam with AC rivals WLIT and WCFS. Two stations that saw major growth this month: UNIVISION Regional Mexican WOJO and CITADEL Classic Hits WLS-FM (TRUE OLDIES 94.7). Here's a look at the Windy City in August:

25-54: WDRV remains a dominant #1 - finishing 29% ahead of sister WTMX, which ranks 2nd. A solid month for WOJO, who surges from 7th to 3rd. TRIBUNE Talk WGN - leaps into 4th place. Surging from 8th to 5th is WLS-FM - who also ranks as the #3 English language FM Music station - a huge accomplishemt for the Classic Hits format and "True Oldies" affiliate. CLEAR CHANNEL continues to have their challenges since the shift to PPM in Chicago, with Urban AC WVAZ (V103) ranking 6th 25-54 (and as their highest rated station). CBS Triple A WXRT ties for 6th. SBS Regional Mexican WLEY is 8th. EMMIS sees Rock WLUP tie with CBS Country WUSN for 9th.

CBS News WBBM-AM is 11th, and is tied with AC sister WCFS (FRESH). WCFS moves just slightly ahead of rival WILV (who ranks 13th). Former market leader, CLEAR CHANNEL Urban WGCI, continues to struggle in the meter, dipping now to 14th place. AC sister WLIT ranks 15th. CITADEL Talk WLS-AM is 16th, climbing ahead of CBS Sports WSCR. CBS Adult Hits WJMK (JACK-FM) ranks 18th - although STEVE DAHL ticked up a bit in August. JACK was tied with CLEAR CHANNEL Top 40 WKSC and CLEAR CHANNEL Smooth AC WNUA - which not unlike the format in other markets - has its challenges in the meter. Out of the top 20 25-54: CBS Rhythmic WBBM-FM (B96) and EMMIS Alternative WKQX (Q101.1) at #25.

18-49: BONNEVILLE wins here too - but in reverse order with WTMX #1 and WDRV #2. WOJO surges to 3rd. WUSN slides from 3rd in July to 4th in August. WLEY is 5th. Continuing nice growth 18-49 is WCFS - leaping from 10th in July to 6th in August - tying them with WLUP. WLS-FM is now top 10 18-49, surging to 8th place. WKSC and V103 tie for 9th.

Falling out of the top 10 18-49 is WGCI - a station that spent years as the market leader 18-49, is now 11th, tied this time with WGN. WXRT was 13th, WBBM-AM is 14th. WILV, B96 and WLIT tie for 15th. Q101.1 is 18th and UNIVISION Spanish Oldies WPPN is 19th. Tied for 20th: JACK and WSCR.

18-34: There's a new champ and it's WOJO. WTMX now slides back to 2nd in the cell. WLEY is 3rd, and gains 10%. WUSN climbs from 6th to 4th. WKSC slips from 3rd to 5th. WGCI is out of the top 5 18-34, moving down to 6th. B96 holds in 7th. Q101.1 is 8th, tied with WLS-FM. WDRV rounds out the top 10.

San Francisco: Seacrest A Bay Area 'Star'; KMEL Takes Younger Demos

One great thing about the PPM is that we can see the results of programming changes a lot quicker. ON AIR WITH RYAN SEACREST debuted on CLEAR CHANNEL Hot AC KIOI (STAR 101.3) at the start of the July month from 4-7pm weekdays. After just 60 days, KIOI has seen huge growth - especially in afternoon drive, where the station now tops the market 25-54. Seacrest's show (which is on 80+ stations) helped push KIOI to the #1 position in afternoon drive with Adults 25-54, Women 25-54, and a strong 2nd Women 18-49 to sister Rhythmic KMEL. And, for good measure, KIOI took the full week 25-54 crown away from KOIT. KMEL, meanwhile was the champ among 18-34 and 18-49 adults. Seacrest has a radio track record in the Bay Area, having been on KIOI several years ago.

25-54: KIOI moves past KOIT into the leadership position. CUMULUS Rock KSAN is still 3rd. There's a three-way tie for 4th with CUMULUS Triple A KFOG, NORTHERN CALIFORNIA PUBLIC RADIO Talk KQED and UNIVISION Regional Mexican KSOL. KMEL is 7th. INNER CITY Urban AC KBLX surges back into the top 10 and captures 8th place, tying them with CBS News KCBS-AM, CLEAR CHANNEL Rhythmic AC KISQ, and CUMULUS Sports KNBR.

SBS Regional Mexican KRZZ is 12th, just ahead of CLEAR CHANNEL Rhythmic KYLD. A slight dip for CBS Rhythmic AC KMVQ (Movin' 99.7) to 14th - but still ahead of diary numbers. CBS Alternative KITS is 15th. CITADEL Talk KGO is 16th (they were almost consistently top 10 in the diary), tying them with CLEAR CHANNEL Smooth AC KKSF. ENTERCOM Country KBWF dips to 18th (from 16th in July). NEXTMEDIA Hot AC KEZR (from SAN JOSE) is 19th, with CLEAR CHANNEL San Jose Classic Rocker KUFX rounding out the top 20.

CBS Hot AC KLLC (ALICE) continues to struggle, actually dropping out of the top 20 25-54, falling to 21st place. Unlike Classic Hits in New York, Los Angeles, and Chicago, KFRC has not seen the same windfall in the Bay Area, ranking 29th 25-54.

18-49: KMEL keeps its crown here, but KIOI moves from 4th to 2nd. KSOL holds in 3rd place. KOIT dips from 2nd to 4th. Tied for 5th are KYLD and KRZZ. KCBS-AM moves up to 7th, KISQ is 8th, with KSAN sliding from 7th to 9th. KITS and KQED tie for 10th. KFOG is 12th, KMVQ is 13th, KNBR 14th, and KBLX 15th. KEZR inches up to grab 16th, UNIVISION Spanish Adult Hits KBRG rank 17th, KLLC is 18th. An off for KBWF, who drops from 16th to 19th, with KKSF, CLEAR CHANNEL Mexican Oldies KSJO, and KUFX tied for 20th.

18-34: KMEL and KYLD are a comfortable 1-2 - giving CC's Rhythmic sisters a dominant lead in the younger demo. KSOL inches up to stay slight of rival KRZZ for 3rd place. KITS holds in 5th, with KOIT steady in 6th. KIOI, KMVQ, KEZR, and KQED round out the top 10.

 

[davideduardo]

From AllAccess.com - August PPM "pre-currency" numbers for some major markets (overall numbers not included):

Those All Access book "wrapups" are really nicely done by Anthony Acampora.

 

[scooty430]

I love the 60s.....and growing up in suburban Boston, most kids liked the bands of the 60s and the 70s more than the then-current junk. I'd say the Dead, Dylan, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, the Beatles, the Doors, and the Stones were EASILY the biggest bands in my high school......graduated 1986.

Two things.....

1) Boston (and suburban Boston) MUST take responsibility for New Kids On The Block.

2) Both Top 40's throughout the 80's, WXKS and WZOU, outcumed, outranked and out performed any radio station playing music of the 60's and 70's in the Boston market (including Oldies and Classic Rock).

Luckily, by the time the New Kids came about, I was in LA!

By the same token, I was no longer in town when WZOU (and urban music) kind of took off. However, in the early 80s, WCOZ and WBCN were king.

And I imagine Mr. Eduardo would tell you the pop stations had lots of listeners that were too young. WBCN, WZLX, and WAAF had good demos at the time, I bet. 20s and 30s.

Well its hard to qualify the reach of 80's music if we're talking about just the early 80's.
Just as you wouldn't want to compare "just early 60's" music.

In any event, between the CHR's, Rock, AC's and Alternative stations.......there is no contest (in BOSTON) that more cume is attracted to stations
playing 80's songs rather than anyone playing 60's and 70's tunes.

Are you talking about now, or then?

I know that right now Oldies 103 does alright.

And I believe classical is top 10 in Boston. Did you mean the 1880s?

Also......what is wrong with carving up the 80s? The 60s is routinely sliced into pre-64 and post-64. The 50s are usually chopped in half starting in 1955. I'd argue most of the "big 80s" music happened mid-decade. By the end, things were splintering and getting pretty darn stale. Remember Milli Vanilli?

That's why Nirvana had such an impact. Pop music was in the doldrums.

I'm not going to respond to all of your minute points, but in general, you miss the forest for the trees.

Yes, I know what "oldies" means in terms of the word "oldies." I think anyone on this board does.

But the context of the conversation was YOUR saying that nobody likes "old music from the 60s 70s and 80s." When I tried to counter that, you got lost in a sea of pointless semantics.

Your last few points show how you are really unable to discuss radio, because you are such a part of the machine. The demos, the "billing," the stats......that is all you know. But outside of your world there is a real one....the one I inhabit.

As for rankings, no, I'm not Mr. Radio Dude like you with "inside access" to the latest stats. If that means I'm not allowed to say anything as a radio listener, so be it. All I see are the listings in the LA Times, and my memory of that was that KRTH was way up high, as was JACK. After you countered, I did a google and found an Arbitron listing from last summer, from this very website. If that's wrong, fine. But that's what I used in trying to have the discussion.

I still don't get what you're trying to say about your name. Your screen name gives the impression that you are David Eduardo. You then said you are David Euardo, and chastise me for using the screen name. That seems kind of strange, but whatever. There is some link you want me to click on but really I'm not that curious. Was "Euardo" a typo? Why is there a "D" on the screen name?

For the record, you can call me scooty, scott, scoot. I really don't care.

 

[scooty430]

WAAF and WBCN were in that era AOR stations... not the music Oldie or Classic hits stations play. AORs were the 18-34 male champs in many markets.


WAAF played at least 50 percent old stuff. I know. I was there. All-Zeppelin weekends. Pink Floyd album sides. Triple Shot Thursdays. Same with COZ.

An they, by industry terms, were AOR stations. AORs played, in that era, gold as well as currents.

Again, missing the point. The argument was that nobody likes old music from before their time. Not a dissection of AOR or Classic Hits or whatever lameo corporate name has been slapped on the station.

To the listeners, it's music. And I was a listener. And I was young. And I was listening to OLD MUSIC.

 

[scooty430]

Here is the basic point: KRTH is the #6 English-language station overall. It is the #4 English-language music station. It is the #11 station including Spanish stations, which get high ratings as there aren't many choices for Spanish speakers to choose from.

Are you looking at Arbitron?? Because these rankings aren't true no matter what demo I look at.

Lastly, your central point actually proves something I tried to say months ago, which at the time you negated: Not a lot of people are listening to ANY station.

Huh??

You can't have it both ways. Is barely anybody listening, or is everybody listening?

Yes, they is. LOL

Yup, looking at Arbitron. 12+, the demo that counts "everyone," but that "doesn't matter." (Please spare me the advertisers like such and such demo routine.) From radio-info.com.

As for the "huh," I'll explain it slooowwwwwly for ya. Eduardo (a.k.a. Euardo) a few months ago was denying that radio listenership was down. He used lots of stats to justify his position.

Now, a few months later, he is trying to counter an argument that KRTH and WCBS are popular. He thus says "95 percent of the population do not listen to KRTH" (or something like that.) When challenged, he then says, "Few stations are commanding ANY sizable share of audience. They are all small niches."

To call KIIS FM, the number one station, "a station most people don't listen to" basically admits defeat.

 

[scooty430]

Double post?

 

[davideduardo]

Again, missing the point. The argument was that nobody likes old music from before their time. Not a dissection of AOR or Classic Hits or whatever lameo corporate name has been slapped on the station.

That was not the discussion, and you either know it and are taking things out of context, or you have a serious reading comprehension difficulty.

Very few people like music from an era before their time... it's a very uniquely American or "anglo" thing for each generation to have "its" music. In some cultures, music is multigenerational, while in others music separates generations.

In any case, the data shows, for example, that very few people under 55 like early to mid 50's music and thus do not cume old leaning oldies stations. Very few under 50 like post-British Invasion mid to late 60s songs, and don't cume stations based in this era. And so on.

 

[scooty430]

Again, missing the point. The argument was that nobody likes old music from before their time. Not a dissection of AOR or Classic Hits or whatever lameo corporate name has been slapped on the station.

That was not the discussion, and you either know it and are taking things out of context, or you have a serious reading comprehension difficulty.

Very few people like music from an era before their time... it's a very uniquely American or "anglo" thing for each generation to have "its" music. In some cultures, music is multigenerational, while in others music separates generations.

In any case, the data shows, for example, that very few people under 55 like early to mid 50's music and thus do not cume old leaning oldies stations. Very few under 50 like post-British Invasion mid to late 60s songs, and don't cume stations based in this era. And so on.

You are hilarious.

In one paragraph you say, "that was not the discussion. It was not about people not liking old music from before their time."

Then in the next paragraph you say, "as I was saying, people don't like old music from before their time."

For God's sake, put down the pipe, dude!

 

[davideduardo]

As for the "huh," I'll explain it slooowwwwwly for ya. Eduardo (a.k.a. Euardo) a few months ago was denying that radio listenership was down. He used lots of stats to justify his position.¿

Listenership, meaning cume, is NOT down. AWTE / ATE, meaning time spent each week with the radio, has gradulally declined since about 1988.

If you would only learn the terms of the trade, as I recommended, you could discuss this with some degree of intelligence. As it is, you can not.

Terms of the trade are in the Arbitron Purple Book. I have one posted at http://www.davidgleason.com/Research_Arbitron.htm where about half way down there is an Arbitron logo with instructions how to look at the book.

 

[scooty430]

You should be a lawyer.

"Listenership" is not down. "Time spent with radio" is down.

Ohhhhhhh. That sounds oh so much better than "people don't listen to the radio as much as they used to."

Your use of jargon to obscure the truth reminds me of these lines in Spinal Tap.

"Is the band's popularity decreasing?"

"No, the band's popularity isn't decreasing. Their appeal is simply becoming more selective."

 

[davideduardo]

You are hilarious.

You say, "that was not the discussion. It was not about people not liking old music from before their time."

Then in the next paragraph you say, "as I was saying, people don't like old music from before their time."

For God's sake, put down the pipe, dude!

You do have a comprehension problem.

We were discussing, originally, that oldies, classic hits and 80's formats appealed principally to people who grew up in the decades that each format represents.

You introduced the "before their time" part. And it's irrelevant. The issue is that people don't like music they are not familiar with. That also means that an AC listener who does not ever get expose to country probably has no taste for the music. It's not that the music is older in this case, it's that the music is unfamiliar.

The fact is that most music from "before their time" is not liked and unfamiliar to most people. Most music that is from genres we did not develop a taste for around early adolesence is also going to be of little interest in most cases.

I simply cited the case where, for example, 80's listeners, to the greater extent (as shown by demo composition of a station) don't have much interest in pre-80's music of the same genre as it's less bonded and likely to be far less familiar.

Again, the point originally was to distinguish demographically between oldies, classic hits and 80's formats... and the fact is that each appeals to those who grew up in a different decade... and yes, there is some crossover by those who grew up straddling an era.

Go read the purple book, please.

 

[davideduardo]

You should be a lawyer.

"Listenership" is not down. "Time spent with radio" is down.

Ohhhhhhh. That sounds oh so much better than "people don't listen to the radio as much as they used to."

Your use of jargon to obscure the truth reminds me of these lines in Spinal Tap.

Cume (listenership) and AWTE/ATE (length of listening per person) are two different qualities... ratings collect data on both (and nothing else, actually) to get share, rating and AQH persons.

This is not jargon or gibberish to "obscure(sic)" the truth... they are the terms of the trade.

Since you do not know the difference between cume and share and rating and AQH persons, you can not discuss this without hurling insults. Please, read up on this... I have given you a direct link... before you again try to cover your lack of facts by trying to shoot the messenger.

 

[BACKnUSSR]

Yup, looking at Arbitron. 12+, the demo that counts "everyone," but that "doesn't matter." (Please spare me the advertisers like such and such demo routine.) From radio-info.com.

Let me make a point here. You can certainly make your argument based on 12+ numbers. But know that it is faulty.
It doesnt mean much.Look at the audience it targets...NOTHING else matters.
Here's an analogy, suppose a company "makes" $1,000,000 a year, but its expenses are $1,000,001 a year...would it rank high in profitability??
If you looked at the "straight billing" (12+ per se) you'd say it did pretty well, but in essence, that doesnt matter.

As for the "huh," I'll explain it slooowwwwwly for ya. Eduardo (a.k.a. Euardo) a few months ago was denying that radio listenership was down. He used lots of stats to justify his position.

Now, a few months later, he is trying to counter an argument that KRTH and WCBS are popular. He thus says "95 percent of the population do not listen to KRTH" (or something like that.) When challenged, he then says, "Few stations are commanding ANY sizable share of audience. They are all small niches."

To call KIIS FM, the number one station, "a station most people don't listen to" basically admits defeat.

Dont be condescending when you dont know what you're talking about.....

1) Radio listenership is NOT down over the past few years. David is correct.
Put it this way the number of people who own HDTV's is UP....but MOST people do not own HDTV....get it????

2) KRTH and WCBS-F do not dominate the market in either LA or NY. Although they appear to be popular stations to you,
KRTH is soundly beaten IN ITS TARGET AUDIENCE by KIIS, JACK, KROQ, KSCA and others. WCBS-F is outperformed by
Z-100, WLTW, WAXQ and KISS. These are not the stations to use as examples to further your argument.

3) With ANY #1 station, MOST people who use radio listen to all of the others. Kind of like if the Lakers win 101-94,
even if Kobe scores 50 points.....the rest of the Lakers outscored him.

 

[oldies76]

To the listeners, it's music. And I was a listener. And I was young. And I was listening to OLD MUSIC.

Scooty has a point. Yes Arbitron data may suggest otherwise, but that's only a small percentage of the Population.

If, what (a guess) 14 million people live in L.A and suburbs..how many of that total, care or listen to oldies of the 60, 70's and classic hits of the 80's. I think more people do listen to oldies than we think, it's just not represented correctly as a whole.

Many people are curious to see what was popular on the radio in years past and some of them actually like the older music, as compared to what is out now or when they were teenagers. Growing up in the early 80's, I had a taste for music of the late 60's and all the 70's as well as the currents. Now, it's everything since 1955.

Data may show one thing based on a sample, but you've got to consider the listening population (unmeasured by Arbitron or any other agency) as a whole and see the possibilities there.