KSWD - Nothing In the Vault

[davideduardo]

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't KSWD a commercial profit oriented station and KCSN is non-profit and non-commercial?

Yeah, and KCSN puts a 60 dbu signal over 3 million people, vs. 15 million for KSWD.

 

[crainbebo]

This is sort of what Entercom did to the Mountain in Seattle. Destroyed an awesome AAA station with sample CDs given out every year and tens of thousands of listeners. Now it's a KZOK-clone. How many times have I heard Tears for Fears on KMTT 103.7?

-crainbebo

 

[davideduardo]

This is sort of what Entercom did to the Mountain in Seattle. Destroyed an awesome AAA station with sample CDs given out every year and tens of thousands of listeners.

KSWD was not an "awesome AAA station" as it did not even enter the format till mid-2008, and did poorly in it for about 3 years. They migrated to a more classic rock position in 2011, and have gotten significantly better numbers for the effort. They are, however, still sitting around 20th in 25-54.

KSWD's experience parallels, 15 years later, the low performance of AAA KSCA until it changed to Regional Mexican. A 1.1 to 1.2 was its level, and they blamed it on the signal... of course, the Regional Mexican format got over a 6 share in the full books after it switched.

Perhaps LA is not a AAA market. You think?

 

[david]

KCSN Trending Query

...KCSN puts a 60 dbu signal over 3 million people, vs. 15 million for KSWD.

Anyone have any data on how KCSN is doing - are they showing up at all with any numbers in the ARB book, how popular is their stream on iHeart, how well are they doing relative to their prior format (classical), how successful are they at fundraising now vs. then, etc.? I'm rooting for KCSN's long-term success, and for them to find a way to have a signal that penetrates well into Southern LA County and Orange County.

 

[Marv-L.A.]

David has repeatedly stated for the last 3-5 years if not longer that LA's ethnic mix as well as the age of the local audience of 15,000,000 or so he cited isn't conducive to having a successful AAA station in this city, and it's also why KKGO has respectable 35-54 and 35-64 numbers but awful numbers in 18-34, and barely mediocre 25-54 numbers.

The 2011 edition of Arbitron's annual 'Radio Today' survey pointed out that country's ratings in the 18-34 demo have been on the rise in recent years, and that the format was #1 with men 12-24.

I don't know who does the sweepers for KSWD, but one of their positioning statements has started emphasizing that it is a classic rock station, so they've obviously seen the writing on the wall that David has been educating all of us for years, even before KSWD hit the air. I give them plenty of props for taking shot at making it work, but it obviously hasn't worked.

I'd hazard a guess that if you checked the 18-34 numbers for any of a dozen or more country stations starting with KYGO/Denver & proceeding westward, you'd find plenty of country stations in cities such as SLC, Phoenix, Vegas, Sacramento, Portland, Seattle, Reno, Tucson, San Diego, Fresno and many others that trounce KKGO's 18-34 numbers, and have been doing so for several years.

 

[nmoore6676]

First off we all grew up with a certain set of songs be certain groups that we personally consider classics. The genius profiler guy on "Criminal Minds" said one time that our musical tastes begin becoming our own at around age 14. That likely extends through college and then starts tapering off. In my case that is certainly true.

But my area of exposure extends from country through rock. And the years would be from 1957 to maybe 67. But I have enjoyed stuff through the 80s in both genres. But also I enjoy "discovering" new stuff that got by me but again that is hottest in the years between when I was 14 and 24, diminishing after that with a few blips for certain specific artists and styles.

Radio programmers on the other hand tend to believe that if someone is tuned in and they don't hear something familiar and to their taste that they will tune out. This is likely so. I'd have to say that expecting a radio station to play a bunch of the particular music which fits just you is not going to happen and shouldn't.

But God has blessed us with MP3 players and computers that can be programmed to play what we like best so go for it, I have. I listen to radio to find those songs I've missed and I might be odd but I enjoy that and what I buy is what I've heard. Once in a while I get really wild and get some Classical music and the jazz from the 40s and 50s. WHoopee!

 

[ercjncpr]

This is sort of what Entercom did to the Mountain in Seattle. Destroyed an awesome AAA station with sample CDs given out every year and tens of thousands of listeners.

KSWD was not an "awesome AAA station" as it did not even enter the format till mid-2008, and did poorly in it for about 3 years. They migrated to a more classic rock position in 2011, and have gotten significantly better numbers for the effort. They are, however, still sitting around 20th in 25-54.

KSWD's experience parallels, 15 years later, the low performance of AAA KSCA until it changed to Regional Mexican. A 1.1 to 1.2 was its level, and they blamed it on the signal... of course, the Regional Mexican format got over a 6 share in the full books after it switched.

Perhaps LA is not a AAA market. You think?

Good points David.

 

[davideduardo]

The genius profiler guy on "Criminal Minds" said one time that our musical tastes begin becoming our own at around age 14. That likely extends through college and then starts tapering off. In my case that is certainly true.

Other than language acquisition, this is one of the most studied facets of development. The consensus is that the musical roots formed in early adolescence are the base for everything thereafter.

Generally, people who have very diverse multi-genre musical tastes were exposed to and liked a broad range of music when young.

 

[michael hagerty]

This is sort of what Entercom did to the Mountain in Seattle. Destroyed an awesome AAA station with sample CDs given out every year and tens of thousands of listeners.

KSWD was not an "awesome AAA station" as it did not even enter the format till mid-2008, and did poorly in it for about 3 years. They migrated to a more classic rock position in 2011, and have gotten significantly better numbers for the effort. They are, however, still sitting around 20th in 25-54.

KSWD's experience parallels, 15 years later, the low performance of AAA KSCA until it changed to Regional Mexican. A 1.1 to 1.2 was its level, and they blamed it on the signal... of course, the Regional Mexican format got over a 6 share in the full books after it switched.

Perhaps LA is not a AAA market. You think?

The last time a AAA-ish station did well in Los Angeles was KNX-FM, which was Top 10 at its peak, which lasted 3 years: 1976, 1977 and 1978.

Before (the format launched in '73) and after (it lasted until the summer of '83), it usually bobbed up and down between 14th and 18th place. Its three-year revival in the late 80s did worse.

I'm not really sure L.A. was the right market for AAA even in the mid-late 70s. I think a lot of KNX-FM's success at the time was tied to the rocketship ride L.A. acts like the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Jackson Browne and Linda Ronstadt were on at the time. KNX-FM's peak years were their peak years.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

This is sort of what Entercom did to the Mountain in Seattle. Destroyed an awesome AAA station with sample CDs given out every year and tens of thousands of listeners.

KSWD was not an "awesome AAA station" as it did not even enter the format till mid-2008, and did poorly in it for about 3 years. They migrated to a more classic rock position in 2011, and have gotten significantly better numbers for the effort. They are, however, still sitting around 20th in 25-54.

KSWD's experience parallels, 15 years later, the low performance of AAA KSCA until it changed to Regional Mexican. A 1.1 to 1.2 was its level, and they blamed it on the signal... of course, the Regional Mexican format got over a 6 share in the full books after it switched.

Perhaps LA is not a AAA market. You think?

David,

KSWD was completely classic rock by the summer of 2009 as I discussed earlier in this thread. Take it from someone who actually listens to the station. They were still listed as AAA in some places for up to a few years later, which often led to some confusion, particularly on this board, but to say they were AAA until 2011 is simply not accurate.

 

[Thomps2525]

It's hard to disagree with David's observation that Los Angeles is "not an AAA market." Here is the link to the KTLA-Channel 5 news report on KSCA's last day in that format: "We're losing another great station." Ain't it funny how these stations that are supposedly so "great" never have enough listeners to keep them going? Go figure!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNnnKQXQcGQ

 

[davideduardo]

KSWD was completely classic rock by the summer of 2009 as I discussed earlier in this thread. Take it from someone who actually listens to the station. They were still listed as AAA in some places for up to a few years later, which often led to some confusion, particularly on this board, but to say they were AAA until 2011 is simply not accurate.

From watching the playlists, I'd say that they were transitioning from AAA to Classic rock over the 2009-2010 period.

There is a lot of leeway on what a "classic rock" station is, as well as what an AAA station is. Some AAA's are a fairly pure form of rock, while others go wide and wild with bits of Americana and other things.

 

[Thomps2525]

Wikipedia defines Adult Album Alternative this way: "Musical selection tends to be on the fringe of mainstream pop and rock as well as many other music genres such as indie rock, pop rock,alternative rock, alternative country, jazz, folk, world music and blues. The musical selections tend to shy away from hard rock and rap music."

Radio-Locator.com describes the format this way: "Triple-A stations target an adult audience with a large variety of music that hovers on the fringe of mainstream pop and rock, including Americana, alternative rock, alternative country, blues, folk and world music. The selections stay away from rap or any of the 'hard stuff.'"

Never mind the definition---which one of those two sites plagiarized from the other?