KYA or KFRC

[michael hagerty]

People don't want to listen to 5 min + of commercials either, even if we just gave them (or promise to give them) a 45 or even 60 min "free ride" of music. They just punch the next pre-set.

And that's the trouble. There is NO good way to schedule commercials anymore.

Break the stopsets down to manageable lengths?

From 1965-1971, Drake/RKO had a 14 minute hourly maximum and a 70 second stopset maximum. Trouble is, that means you're doing 12 commercial breaks and 15 songs an hour (IF your songs are three minutes long). Doesn't matter that you've got a couple of two-in-a-row and three-in-a-row, it FEELS like you're doing a commercial for every song.

Even if you go to 8 minutes of commercials an hour, four stop sets of two minutes each, the audience is gonna push the button.

We've trained them to expect an interminable break in the music---filled with commercials that have no appeal to them.

I mean, even in the good old days of brilliantly produced radio spots, most of the audience didn't want to hear them. But when they were good----listen to this:

 

[TomásEstefan]

And that's the trouble. There is NO good way to schedule commercials anymore.

Break the stopsets down to manageable lengths?

From 1965-1971, Drake/RKO had a 14 minute hourly maximum and a 70 second stopset maximum. Trouble is, that means you're doing 12 commercial breaks and 15 songs an hour (IF your songs are three minutes long). Doesn't matter that you've got a couple of two-in-a-row and three-in-a-row, it FEELS like you're doing a commercial for every song.

Even if you go to 8 minutes of commercials an hour, four stop sets of two minutes each, the audience is gonna push the button.

We've trained them to expect an interminable break in the music---filled with commercials that have no appeal to them.

I mean, even in the good old days of brilliantly produced radio spots, most of the audience didn't want to hear them. But when they were good----listen to this:

Yes, and to add insult to injury, how about 3 furniture stores advertising back to back in the same stop set !

 

[michael hagerty]

Yes, and to add insult to injury, how about 3 furniture stores advertising back to back in the same stop set !

Competing product separation died decades ago.

I don't want to do a whole "in my day" rap, but my rules when I did my first 10 years in radio (1971-81) were:

*Competing products should be at least TWO stop sets apart unless it can't be done. Under NO circumstances should they ever be in the same stop set.

*The same advertiser should not appear more than once an hour---ideally, every two hours, but there are going to be requests for saturation campaigns.

*Traffic should endeavor to balance a stop set, avoiding two of any of the same kind of production (live read, cold recorded voice, recorded voice with music, recorded voice with jingle, pure jingle) in the same stop set.

*Stop sets should be structured so that the production level of the spots ascends. End big, get into the station jingle and into the record.

And even then, you were gonna lose people. If there's another station that plays music they like, a lot of your audience will check to see if that station is playing their favorite song while you're trying to sell them something. And that was when they KNEW the music would be back in two minutes, tops.

Really---the only commercial approach that would have any hope (and I don't know that you could sell it)---is what radio did in the days before spot advertising. Sponsorships. "The following 15 minutes (or half-hour, or hour) of music on (call letters) is brought to you by (sponsor name)."

It's essentially what podcasts are doing now. Not sure how you'd structure it for broadcast radio, but I think the spot model is broken.

 

[TheBigA]

Really---the only commercial approach that would have any hope (and I don't know that you could sell it)---is what radio did in the days before spot advertising. Sponsorships. "The following 15 minutes (or half-hour, or hour) of music on (call letters) is brought to you by (sponsor name)."

That option is still available. Sometimes a big advertiser will approve it and sponsor an entire hour. It's rare because most advertisers want their spot repeated over and over during an hour because most of the audience doesn't listen for entire hours. The audience listens in short blocks. So advertisers believe they have a better chance of reaching the most people by having their spots air more times in an hour. Some would rather have four :15 spots rather than one :60. In fact, :60s are seen as extremely inefficient by advertisers, because the audience will only hear a small portion of the ad before they tune out.

Radio takes a lot of criticism for the way advertising is presented, but the way ads are presented is chosen by the advertisers. They know what they're buying. The spot breaks are based on the behavior of the audience, which is measured and documented by PPM.

 

[radio128]

Yet, the CHR station in Los Angeles still uses the sung jingle...102.7 KIIS FM.

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Yet, the CHR station in Los Angeles still uses the sung jingle...102.7 KIIS FM.

KRTH 101 online still uses sung jingles. Every 30 minutes, the play all their commercials one after the other. This happens at about :10 and about :40 past the hour. I timed it before Christmas, on a weekday evening; and the commercials seemed to take up about 8 minutes each half hour. JMO --- Daryl Lynn

 

[davideduardo]

*Stop sets should be structured so that the production level of the spots ascends. End big, get into the station jingle and into the record.

Of course, there were some commercials that were better than the songs...

 

[Signal Geek]

KRTH 101 online still uses sung jingles.

They do? I'm within listening range of KRTH, and lately I've only heard them I.D. themselves with what sounds like 8-10 young people all yelling "K-Earth 101!" together.

 

[TomásEstefan]

Competing product separation died decades ago.

I don't want to do a whole "in my day" rap, but my rules when I did my first 10 years in radio (1971-81) were:

*Competing products should be at least TWO stop sets apart unless it can't be done. Under NO circumstances should they ever be in the same stop set.

*The same advertiser should not appear more than once an hour---ideally, every two hours, but there are going to be requests for saturation campaigns.

*Traffic should endeavor to balance a stop set, avoiding two of any of the same kind of production (live read, cold recorded voice, recorded voice with music, recorded voice with jingle, pure jingle) in the same stop set.

*Stop sets should be structured so that the production level of the spots ascends. End big, get into the station jingle and into the record.

And even then, you were gonna lose people. If there's another station that plays music they like, a lot of your audience will check to see if that station is playing their favorite song while you're trying to sell them something. And that was when they KNEW the music would be back in two minutes, tops.

Really---the only commercial approach that would have any hope (and I don't know that you could sell it)---is what radio did in the days before spot advertising. Sponsorships. "The following 15 minutes (or half-hour, or hour) of music on (call letters) is brought to you by (sponsor name)."

It's essentially what podcasts are doing now. Not sure how you'd structure it for broadcast radio, but I think the spot model is broken.

Way back in the heyday of the great KFWB they tried to minimize listener tune out during long commercial breaks by bridging two spots with a soft "KFWB Channel 98" jingle to presumably remind listeners that they're "already listening to the best, so there is really no where else to go so don't touch that dial !". Until KRLA arrived. Ha Ha !

 

[michael hagerty]

Way back in the heyday of the great KFWB they tried to minimize listener tune out during long commercial breaks by bridging two spots with a soft "KFWB Channel 98" jingle to presumably remind listeners that they're "already listening to the best, so there is really no where else to go so don't touch that dial !".

And all they did was subliminally associate the jingle and KFWB with commercials.

This is why Bill Drake insisted----the jingle goes into music ONLY. And you structure your clock so you're coming out of that jingle into the strongest record possible. And then the audience associates the jingle and KHJ with hit music.

It's Pavlovian. What happens when you ring the bell/play the jingle?

 

[TomásEstefan]

And you structure your clock so you're coming out of that jingle into the strongest record possible. And then the audience associates the jingle and KHJ with hit music.

Do you remember like I do, listening to a Top 40 type music station that we really liked, putting up with a seemingly unending stopset until finally: "drumroll KCBQ ! and instead of the Beatles, Stones, Doors, Hendrix, Eagles etc...it's Paul Anka, Gary Lewis and the Playboys, or the Bee Gees ! No knock on those talents...it's just that I expected after such a long wait I was expecting/hoping for something really GOOD !

 

[michael hagerty]

Do you remember like I do, listening to a Top 40 type music station that we really liked, putting up with a seemingly unending stopset until finally: "drumroll KCBQ ! and instead of the Beatles, Stones, Doors, Hendrix, Eagles etc...it's Paul Anka, Gary Lewis and the Playboys, or the Bee Gees ! No knock on those talents...it's just that I expected after such a long wait I was expecting/hoping for something really GOOD !

I didn't hear KCBQ until 1970 or so, and don't remember a long stop set then or after. Really, two minutes seems to have been the end of the world until album rock stations started having to figure out where to put the commercials they were suddenly selling.

 

[davideduardo]

I didn't hear KCBQ until 1970 or so, and don't remember a long stop set then or after. Really, two minutes seems to have been the end of the world until album rock stations started having to figure out where to put the commercials they were suddenly selling.

Well into the 2000's most music stations were doing some variant of the 4 stopsets in the dead center of the quarter hours.

At KLVE and KSCA, we changed to :13 and :43 right after the PPM began.

 

[TomásEstefan]

didn't hear KCBQ until 1970 or so, and don't remember a long stop set then or after. Really, two minutes seems to have been the end of the world until album rock stations started having to figure out where to put the commercials they were suddenly selling.

Please with all respect and admiration for the great 1170. I was only creating a scenario...I was only using the KCBQ jingle as an example, I was not talking about KCBQ. I was just trying to express how dissapointing it was to sit through endless ads and then hear your favorite station's jingle and or imaging statement (which is supposed to build excitement) followed by a DUD !

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

They do? I'm within listening range of KRTH, and lately I've only heard them I.D. themselves with what sounds like 8-10 young people all yelling "K-Earth 101!" together.

Hi Signal. I'm listening to KRTH on the Audacy site, and they just finished their block of commercials, then sang the jingle " K-Earth one-oh-one!" then went into (what they consider), a strong upbeat song, "September" by Earth, Wind, and Fire."
This was at 4:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, on the internet. -- Daryl

 

[Signal Geek]

Hi Signal. I'm listening to KRTH on the Audacy site, and they just finished their block of commercials, then sang the jingle " K-Earth one-oh-one!" then went into (what they consider), a strong upbeat song, "September" by Earth, Wind, and Fire."
This was at 4:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, on the internet. -- Daryl

Thanks Daryl. Did it sound like a "professionally-sung" jingle? Because all I've heard lately are a bunch of people *shouting* "K-Earth 101", not actually singing those words. But maybe I'm not listening enough to hear the sung version.

 

[cc333]

Jocks don't talk much now as it is, and you have to have commercials to pay for the station, so now we're pretty much where we already are, cc333.

Production values would spice things up, but if there were relevant production values for today's contemporary music audience, they wouldn't have much, if anything in common with what we think of. Nobody wants call letters or station names sung at them.

Hmm, I guess I hadn't realized how fickle radio audiences are.

Perhaps my idea would work better on a small station, such as LPFM, as a small block maybe two-three hours long on weekdays.

I have a feeling there will be a resurgent interest in radio. I can't say how much or when, but I think it will catch us all by surprise.

I very well could be wrong, but who knows?

c

 

[Daryl Lynn L.A.]

Thanks Daryl. Did it sound like a "professionally-sung" jingle? Because all I've heard lately are a bunch of people *shouting* "K-Earth 101", not actually singing those words. But maybe I'm not listening enough to hear the sung version.

Hi Signal. I know what you mean about the I.D. with the people shouting. I've heard that also. This jingle sounds like the old school one from decades past. It sounds like the Johnny Mann singers or the Anita Kerr singers. It is a professionally sung jingle, like the ones that used to come out of the PAMS company in Texas.
I wish I knew how to make a sound file of jingles and upload it here, then we could chat about different jingles. I loved the upbeat jingles of the old days. -- Daryl

 

[DrAkbar]

Of course, there were some commercials that were better than the songs...

...that's RKO Generals - where the rubber meets the radio!

 

[davideduardo]

...that's RKO Generals - where the rubber meets the radio!

That reminds me of finding a pack of Trojans hidden inside the board once. And then ther was the bag of pot under a removable pot assembly… none in the Pacif Recorders manual.