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Latest on 1460?
- Thread starter radiogeek07
- Start date
redsfan1966 said:
I can't name one AM/FM simulcast in the Cleveland, Cincinnati, Dayton and Youngstown markets except for WHIO 1290 AM in Dayton.
A couple of months ago, Sean Gilbow and a few other "Progressive Talk" supporters out there sent a letter to the RadiOhio GM asking him to change the format of 1460 from Sports to "Progressive Talk". There is a build in audience and advertising base they told the GM of RadiOhio. Well, RadiOhio is not interested in
changing the formant to "Progressive Talk" even after reading all those letter on how great the "Progressive Talk" format would work on 1460.
Of course, when the economy improves, RadiOhio may then drop the simulcast of 97.1 but it dosn't look like it will be "Progressive Talk".
Ohio radio man said:
The rumor from last January was the Wolf family was going to turn 1460 into Dispatch Radio. Saw this posted on the radio-info front page today.
In Grand Rapids, Michigan, they are turning 1340 into a News talk station with the help of their TV affiliate and it's sister station, WJR in Detroit. 1340
used to be a all sports station but 107.3 started to simulcast it's format a few weeks ago. Click here for a TV report on this new format for 1340:
http://www.wzzm13.com/news/most_popular_story.aspx?storyid=112593&provider=top
The Columbus economy is doing better then it is in West Michigan so what is the hold-up on switching 1460 over to Dispatch Radio.
If this can happen in Grand Rapids, Michigan then it can happen here in Columbus.
It also looks now the Wolf family shuns the progressive talk format on 1460. This is a option for them, if they elect to take it. What a waste of a frequiency when 1460 can have a talk format of its own.
gabigley1 said:
Yes, WHIO AM/FM is the only one in those aformentioned markets. But Toledo now has WLQR "1470 The Ticket" simulcast on the former WRWK/106.5 - now WLQR-FM. (I wouldn't really count WJAW/100.9 McConnellsville and WJAW/630 St. Mary's, WV... which both carry ESPN Radio programming, but from what I understand are two different stations, in two different states.)
gabigley1 said:
I don't think the simulcast will be broken... but if WBNS-FM decided to go with an all-local lineup from 6am-7pm, and WBNS-AM took the ESPN lineup 24/7... maybe. But I doubt that a market like Columbus can support an all-local, all-day sports station. Especially when its' star attraction only plays for 14 Saturdays every year, give or take a bowl game.
Plus, we forget that as newspaper publishers are getting hammered in red ink. I don't think that Dispatch is going to try something that, regardless of said statistics and testimonials, would still be perceived as a "risky" move. How the Columbus Dispatch is faring financially will reflect itself on WBNS A/F/T and ONN... maybe not right away, but it will. Simulcasting The Fan on two stations is an economical decision, and one they don't have to worry about. It shows little imagination and skill to pull off, and that's how it is in this broadcasting climate.
Sports radio - even if its' not done right - is STILL a literal ATM, printing out money for its' owner. Progressive/liberal talk does not carry that immediate advantage, regardless of the loyal clients and sponsors they will attract. (If that weren't the case, then the adult standards format and 50s/60s oldies format wouldn't have faded into oblivion.
Oh, and what about the political culture of the Dispatch companies itself? Last I remember, the Dispatch was a moderate newspaper. Their ownership may not feel the need to affiliate themselves with a specific ideology and cause all sorts of headaches for themselves later on by putting liberal talk on 1460. In other words, they aren't General Electric. If that is the case, this thread may be full of grousing and complaining about something that won't really change.
Nathan Obral said:
Not only is this true, but the long web of the Wolfes' financial interests go in places people could never imagine. The Wolfes, for instance, are among the largest property owners in the area owning interests in office buildings and retail developments all over the city. Why go out on a limb and harm the reputation of their cash cows just to make a few hundred thousand from that station? They could probably make as much money investing in another office building with a lot less headache. Furthermore, there is already enough opinion-based programming on the airwaves and very little of that is interesting anymore.
That said, a news channel done correctly would be the perfect format for that station. First of all, people listen to news programming during the day, not really at night, so the nighttime signal isn’t as critical as, say, having to power down during a baseball game. Second, talk done in a moderate vein, such as Jim Bohannon, Larry King, Bob Conners and John Corby would be a perfect fit.
The Wolfe’s, however, aren’t entertainment people. I don’t think they have what it takes to pull it off. Other than picking ex-football jocks, they just do not have a clue how to pick radio talent that is entertaining to listen to. I think Jack Evans was the last interesting guy they had on the radio. Their statistically “perfect” audio quality alone is enough to insure this venture will be a failure. (Remember what Mike Ditka says: "Statistics are for losers.")
Speaking of audio quality, check out the in-house commercials for local businesses running on WDEM-TV. They use music with great acoustic quality … and it comes across great over my Zenith converter box and Panasonic 32” analog (which always had great sound, which is why I haven’t replaced it). Even a low-power station gets the sound thing down.
willcail said:
I have not recently rescanned but what RF channel is WDEM on?
xmusicmatt said:
Nevermind, found the answer RF 17... Apperently not a strong enough singal up here in NW Columbus for me to pick up.
Oh, no, yet another "FM is only for music" thread!
Look, as someone else said about something else here, "that train has left the station". News, talk and sports formats are migrating to FM. Deal with it.
One good reason they are - music formats are declining on over-air radio due to stuff like, well, maybe you've heard of this "iPod" thing. Or "Slacker". Or even the still-alive satellite radio. A good reason to put news/talk/sports on FM in 2009 is that you can't listen to live programming on an iPod, and you can't get local, live programming on Slacker/etc.
And furthermore, if the Performance Tax manages to get out of Congress and onto the president's desk for a signature - I don't know if President Obama supports it or not - music formats will be dumped all over America's FM radio dial, in pretty large numbers.
I've had this discussion a few times (mostly with Nu_Roo ), so I'm gonna try not to get into a rut here.
As far as what 1460 does, I think the idea stated above - turn it, eventually, into a network sister of the mostly local 97.1 - would work. And maybe Good Karma's WWGK up here would be a model for that. With very little local programming on 1460 in this scenario, it'd cost Dispatch/WBNS virtually nothing to run "Columbus' ESPN Radio 1460" with Cowherd, Van Pelt and the like, with overflow sports from 97.1 that they're already apparently doing.
Look, as someone else said about something else here, "that train has left the station". News, talk and sports formats are migrating to FM. Deal with it.
One good reason they are - music formats are declining on over-air radio due to stuff like, well, maybe you've heard of this "iPod" thing. Or "Slacker". Or even the still-alive satellite radio. A good reason to put news/talk/sports on FM in 2009 is that you can't listen to live programming on an iPod, and you can't get local, live programming on Slacker/etc.
And furthermore, if the Performance Tax manages to get out of Congress and onto the president's desk for a signature - I don't know if President Obama supports it or not - music formats will be dumped all over America's FM radio dial, in pretty large numbers.
I've had this discussion a few times (mostly with Nu_Roo
), so I'm gonna try not to get into a rut here.As far as what 1460 does, I think the idea stated above - turn it, eventually, into a network sister of the mostly local 97.1 - would work. And maybe Good Karma's WWGK up here would be a model for that. With very little local programming on 1460 in this scenario, it'd cost Dispatch/WBNS virtually nothing to run "Columbus' ESPN Radio 1460" with Cowherd, Van Pelt and the like, with overflow sports from 97.1 that they're already apparently doing.
If the Performance Tax gets signed into law, how many stations would survive on Talk alone? There's only so many forms of Talk radio in the first place. If radio DOES dump music and go all talk, my MP3 player and CD collection will be utilized to their full ability. Think an 8-9 share is low for first place now? An all-Talk Columbus would be lucky to do a 5 tops.OhioMediaWatch said:Oh, no, yet another "FM is only for music" thread!
Look, as someone else said about something else here, "that train has left the station". News, talk and sports formats are migrating to FM. Deal with it.
One good reason they are - music formats are declining on over-air radio due to stuff like, well, maybe you've heard of this "iPod" thing. Or "Slacker". Or even the still-alive satellite radio. A good reason to put news/talk/sports on FM in 2009 is that you can't listen to live programming on an iPod, and you can't get local, live programming on Slacker/etc.
And furthermore, if the Performance Tax manages to get out of Congress and onto the president's desk for a signature - I don't know if President Obama supports it or not - music formats will be dumped all over America's FM radio dial, in pretty large numbers.
I've had this discussion a few times (mostly with Nu_Roo
As far as what 1460 does, I think the idea stated above - turn it, eventually, into a network sister of the mostly local 97.1 - would work. And maybe Good Karma's WWGK up here would be a model for that. With very little local programming on 1460 in this scenario, it'd cost Dispatch/WBNS virtually nothing to run "Columbus' ESPN Radio 1460" with Cowherd, Van Pelt and the like, with overflow sports from 97.1 that they're already apparently doing.
Also, OMW, it's obvious you LOVE Talk radio. If that's your opinion then stick to it. What Nu Roo and I have constantly said is that FM is a waste of space for talk and better used for its high quality sound to broadcast music. I will admit, I am no fan of talk radio and don't listen to the radio for Talk, I listen for music, and that's what most people listen to the radio for. Take away the music and 50-60% of the audience, maybe more, will be gone. I do realize that Talk has migrated over to FM and is more every day, but that doesn't mean that I-or Nu Roo for that matter-have to like it.
I've kicked this around at least a half-dozen times with Nu, so I'm trying not to repeat myself.
"Waste of space" is in the eye of the beholder. There's nothing that says you have to play music on the FM dial. For that matter, talk/sports/news stations welcome it for a number of reasons - for example, no more static, no more low power directional night patterns, etc. Why should talk formats be confined to the technologically inferior AM dial, and be forced to deal with those issues?
Furthermore, the population which even knows where to FIND the AM dial is dwindling, rapidly.
By the time today's 20-somethings get older, and start caring about news and information, they won't know the AM band is even there...and that band pales in comparison technologically to not only FM, but the digital future. (Maybe by the time those 20-somethings get into their late 30s or so, everything will be via the Internet with Wifi in cars...then this discussion will mean nothing to either of us.)
Yeah, I like talk radio, though not as much as I used to. The "standardization" of the format behind any number of syndicated hosts - most of 'em not worth the bandwidth it takes to deliver them via satellite - has turned me off more and more.
And, yes, we have a rather unique, long-time local talk radio station on FM in this region (WNIR/100.1 Kent, in the Akron market) that is hugely successful, with an entirely locally programmed schedule from 5:30 AM-11 PM weekdays, and 6 AM-10 PM weekends. I listen occasionally, depending on who's on and what they're talking about.
But I also listen to music on the FM dial from time to time, as well.
What happens if WNIR went out of business? (Which is not even close to happening, by the way.) What should appear on 100.1 FM in this area? What music format is being "held back" because there's a talk station on one of the local FM frequencies?
OK, enough of that, I've been through this with Nu_Roo, and I am going over my old points again. It's not like some magic new wonderful unserved audience-targeted music format would show up on 97.1 in Columbus if WBNS-FM dropped "The Fan" there. The format that was there landed within roughly a day on another frequency, albeit a weaker one.
There shouldn't be any "mandate" for music formats on the FM dial, any more than the liberal talk folks should get a "mandated" slot on any frequency, AM or FM. Commercial radio is driven by the marketplace, and if there's a market, someone will move to fill it.
As well as you'd like, on a signal you'd like? Maybe, maybe not. That's just the way it is.
"Waste of space" is in the eye of the beholder. There's nothing that says you have to play music on the FM dial. For that matter, talk/sports/news stations welcome it for a number of reasons - for example, no more static, no more low power directional night patterns, etc. Why should talk formats be confined to the technologically inferior AM dial, and be forced to deal with those issues?
Furthermore, the population which even knows where to FIND the AM dial is dwindling, rapidly.
By the time today's 20-somethings get older, and start caring about news and information, they won't know the AM band is even there...and that band pales in comparison technologically to not only FM, but the digital future. (Maybe by the time those 20-somethings get into their late 30s or so, everything will be via the Internet with Wifi in cars...then this discussion will mean nothing to either of us.
)Yeah, I like talk radio, though not as much as I used to. The "standardization" of the format behind any number of syndicated hosts - most of 'em not worth the bandwidth it takes to deliver them via satellite - has turned me off more and more.
And, yes, we have a rather unique, long-time local talk radio station on FM in this region (WNIR/100.1 Kent, in the Akron market) that is hugely successful, with an entirely locally programmed schedule from 5:30 AM-11 PM weekdays, and 6 AM-10 PM weekends. I listen occasionally, depending on who's on and what they're talking about.
But I also listen to music on the FM dial from time to time, as well.
What happens if WNIR went out of business? (Which is not even close to happening, by the way.) What should appear on 100.1 FM in this area? What music format is being "held back" because there's a talk station on one of the local FM frequencies?
OK, enough of that, I've been through this with Nu_Roo, and I am going over my old points again. It's not like some magic new wonderful unserved audience-targeted music format would show up on 97.1 in Columbus if WBNS-FM dropped "The Fan" there. The format that was there landed within roughly a day on another frequency, albeit a weaker one.
There shouldn't be any "mandate" for music formats on the FM dial, any more than the liberal talk folks should get a "mandated" slot on any frequency, AM or FM. Commercial radio is driven by the marketplace, and if there's a market, someone will move to fill it.
As well as you'd like, on a signal you'd like? Maybe, maybe not. That's just the way it is.
The opinions being attributed to me here are missing key points that I thought I was hammering ad nauseum awhile ago.
Plainly stated, I agree that U.S. FM is bound to get more and more talk, and that much (not all) of it will work. But Columbus is a very atypical market for its size -- in BAD ways -- and has to be viewed a little differently: It makes less sense for booming FM signals to start switching to talk in a market that has SO FEW big FM signals for its size. It's even more nonsensical when you consider that in Columbus some of the biggest signals are hugging each other music-format wise even while there are mulltiple highly-viable mainstream options that remain untried by any of them. A prime example of this goofy (to put it mildly) situation is WLZT doing mainstream AC like SNY, instead of trying, say the incredibly successful Classic Hits format. Duplication among music formats on big sticks obviously makes no sense whatsoever when there are few of them and 97.1 has left music. In fact, as I have said before, 93.3 doing mainstream AC instead of Classic Hits makes even less sense than if it became the new home of TVN.
If I lived in Indy, or Cincy, or Clevely etc., I wouldn't care much at all if a talk station or two took over big signals (as some already have), because there are still so many big-signal music stations that cover the music gamut pretty well (re-emphasize: big-signal -- the rimshots are a joke). It's SOOO different than here, where the the motto is "less FM that you can hear, but with MORE duplication!" Again, a five-year-old could probably figure out that that's a nonsensical state of affairs.
So OhioMedia, please realize I am not a "talk doesn't belong on FM, dammit!" person. I am a "more talk would be especially disappointing on a big signal in Columbus vs. normal markets" person.
Plainly stated, I agree that U.S. FM is bound to get more and more talk, and that much (not all) of it will work. But Columbus is a very atypical market for its size -- in BAD ways -- and has to be viewed a little differently: It makes less sense for booming FM signals to start switching to talk in a market that has SO FEW big FM signals for its size. It's even more nonsensical when you consider that in Columbus some of the biggest signals are hugging each other music-format wise even while there are mulltiple highly-viable mainstream options that remain untried by any of them. A prime example of this goofy (to put it mildly) situation is WLZT doing mainstream AC like SNY, instead of trying, say the incredibly successful Classic Hits format. Duplication among music formats on big sticks obviously makes no sense whatsoever when there are few of them and 97.1 has left music. In fact, as I have said before, 93.3 doing mainstream AC instead of Classic Hits makes even less sense than if it became the new home of TVN.
If I lived in Indy, or Cincy, or Clevely etc., I wouldn't care much at all if a talk station or two took over big signals (as some already have), because there are still so many big-signal music stations that cover the music gamut pretty well (re-emphasize: big-signal -- the rimshots are a joke). It's SOOO different than here, where the the motto is "less FM that you can hear, but with MORE duplication!" Again, a five-year-old could probably figure out that that's a nonsensical state of affairs.
So OhioMedia, please realize I am not a "talk doesn't belong on FM, dammit!" person. I am a "more talk would be especially disappointing on a big signal in Columbus vs. normal markets" person.
Nu, I mentioned you a couple of times, and our past conversations on this, but I was mostly responding to alan...who does hold some of those opinions about talk radio being on FM and displacing music formats.
Nu_Roo_2 said:
Sooo...just what are you trying to say?
What Nu Roo is trying to say is in Columbus there are so few big sticks and so much format overlap. We have Q-FM and The Rock with similar formats, we have 'LZT and Sunny doing AC, but no big signal Classic Hits, Adult Hits, or Hot AC to speak of, but plenty of Rock and AC on the big sticks. As cheap as some station operators are in Columbus I am shocked that the cheaply-run Adult Hits hasn't been tried on at least one big stick, or even Classic Hits seeing as how well 'GRR does in Cincy.Rusty Blades said:
And what I'm saying is that the fact that a couple of stations do talk on the FM dial doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the lack of such formats.
There are two commercial stations with any signal whatsoever doing spoken word on FM.
WBNS-FM is the only one of the two with what could be considered a full-market signal. Until it flipped to "The Fan", it was a straight ahead hot AC right down to having the standard "Mix" name. The format continues on another station (107.9), though obviously it's not as good a signal.
WTDA is an anemic northern rimshot signal that would struggle no matter what the format, talk or music. Generally speaking, I think it was better off as "Ted FM", and I'm not really a fan of any of the talk programming on that signal.
The rest of the "missing music format" discussion does not involve talk/sports/spoken word formats, since those are the only two stations doing them on the FM dial in Columbus.
There are two commercial stations with any signal whatsoever doing spoken word on FM.
WBNS-FM is the only one of the two with what could be considered a full-market signal. Until it flipped to "The Fan", it was a straight ahead hot AC right down to having the standard "Mix" name. The format continues on another station (107.9), though obviously it's not as good a signal.
WTDA is an anemic northern rimshot signal that would struggle no matter what the format, talk or music. Generally speaking, I think it was better off as "Ted FM", and I'm not really a fan of any of the talk programming on that signal.
The rest of the "missing music format" discussion does not involve talk/sports/spoken word formats, since those are the only two stations doing them on the FM dial in Columbus.
The bigger problem is not two spoken word FM stations.
It's the fact that Columbus was notoriously underradioed with full market FM signals as it grew, and most of the rimshots that "moved in" are horrible in signal.
Basically, anything that isn't WLZT as a move in...trying to serve any reasonable part of the market with 104.3 or 103.1, just to name two signals, is insane. Let alone 103.9 or 107.9!
It's the fact that Columbus was notoriously underradioed with full market FM signals as it grew, and most of the rimshots that "moved in" are horrible in signal.
Basically, anything that isn't WLZT as a move in...trying to serve any reasonable part of the market with 104.3 or 103.1, just to name two signals, is insane. Let alone 103.9 or 107.9!
alans613 said:
Exactly. Thanks. My post was rather rambling.
If Rusty Blades' question was instead intended to ask, "so what's your conclusion or recommendation" it boils down to: (1) Some of Columbus's sparse number of big stick FM's should try out a great-track-record music format that has never been on a Columbus big stick (e.g. good-signal Classic Hits). Which in turn means also that (2) No Columbus big stick FM's should switch to a talk format before the kind of trial descrbed in (1).
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