Layoffs at LAist

[TheBigA]

If you read the station's financials, you'll see that every other salaried worker has 40 hours a week listed, so that's nonsense

After I left AFTRA for management, I never filled out a time card again, and I never worked 40 hours a week. I was often on-call for a whole lot more than 40. However, for tax purposes, the company would say I worked 40 hours a week.

And you don't see a problem with a listener-supported radio station entering into an agreement to pay CEOs for years after they stop working? And pay them almost as much as their successors who are working and raising money?

I don't know the terms of his contract. What I know is that if an employee and a company sign a contract, they have to pay what is owed. We also don't know if he had any deferred income. It's not unusual for CEOs to defer a percentage of their salary to after they retire. If the specific person we're talking about is Bill Davis, here is an article about him:

KPCC Chief, Southern California Public Radio Founding President, CEO Bill Davis Steps Down – Pasadena Now

Daily Newsmagazine and City Guide to Pasadena, California featuring local news, breaking news, events, weather, sports news, schools news, shopping, restaurants and more from Pasadena Now

www.pasadenanow.com

What I do see is that the station took in $16.7 million in membership dues in 2021, and less than what they pay the current CEO and the previous CEO combined ($1.125 million) in advertising revenue ($1.027 million.

The LA Times says SCPR took in $42 million in 2021-22. So the CEO's salary is based on that.

 

[TomásEstefan]

If you read the station's financials, you'll see that every other salaried worker has 40 hours a week listed, so that's nonsense.

And you don't see a problem with a listener-supported radio station entering into an agreement to pay CEOs for years after they stop working? And pay them almost as much as their successors who are working and raising money?

I don't see that. What I do see is that the station took in $16.7 million in membership dues in 2021, and less than what they pay the current CEO and the previous CEO combined ($1.125 million) in advertising revenue ($1.027 million.

And just think, way back when, many non-comm radio and even TV facilities were staffed largely by volunteers, using donated equipment from commercial facilities in the community...ah nostalgia...well back to the real world !

 

[Weiserguy]

CEO salaries in non-profits are based on the amount of money they raise. In the for-profit world, CEOs get stock grants, and that's usually where the bulk of their money comes from.

I understand what you're saying, BigA, but there are huge differences between running a for-profit and a not-for-profit organization. If you want the Big Bucks, you should not be in the not-for-profit world. People do that (or at least should do that) because they believe in the mission of the organization, not because they want to lose the stress while continuing to live the high life.

To say it a little differently, any leader who brings home big bucks while asking people of modest means to reach down into their pockets to support you instead of themselves is a hypocrite.

I spent my career in for-profit companies, but my brother spent his running NFP's. We've discussed this issue a number of times, and while he felt he was reasonably compensated for what he did, he never got wealthy from his salary and bonuses, nor did he ever expect to. But if you agree to run a university, college, non-profit media organization, arts orgainzation or charity, but still think you should earn 10 or 20 times the median salary of your staff, you have a warped sense of your mission.

 

[TheBigA]

I understand what you're saying, BigA, but there are huge differences between running a for-profit and a not-for-profit organization. If you want the Big Bucks, you should not be in the not-for-profit world. People do that (or at least should do that) because they believe in the mission of the organization, not because they want to lose the stress while continuing to live the high life.

Nobody who runs a non-profit takes a vow of poverty. It's a different type of compensation. If you run a for-profit business, you will typically have stock options. That's not possible in a non-profit. So the board bases your salary on the amount of money you raise from corporate and foundation sources. If you're raising money from those sources, you need to be where those CEOs are. That means joining country clubs and attending celebrity events. He's not asking for membership money. He's asking other CEOs to commit millions as institutional supporters. As I said, KPCC's annual revenues are $42 million. That's not a small amount of money. If you're the guy responsible for a chunk of that, you should get paid appropriately.

The CEOs of these stations are professional fund-raisers. That's what they do. Their mission is raising money for their organization. Keep in mind that the CEO and the former CEO answer to the station board. They wouldn't pay them if they didn't have a good reason. It's been my experience that non-profit boards are a lot more responsive to public criticism than those of for-profits. So if anyone has a reasonable case to be made about CEO compensation, bring it up at a station board meeting.

 

[TheBigA]

People do that (or at least should do that) because they believe in the mission of the organization, not because they want to lose the stress while continuing to live the high life.

Let me add that if you're getting $500K in Los Angeles, you're NOT living the high life. That's not a lot of money there, which is partly why some of us no longer live there.

 

[Michael Rivers Kramer]

Mike - I’ve heard hours where they only announce the Sacramento legal ID. Do you think there’s an automation version for the others? In fact I only hear the four stations ID together in the of hours and on the weekend.

On the other hand, the music station always announces all three of the station legal IDs together.

Let me add that if you're getting $500K in Los Angeles, you're NOT living the high life. That's not a lot of money there, which is partly why some of us no longer live there.

But you are certainly not in the poor house in LA with a 500k salary.

 

[TheBigA]

But you are certainly not in the poor house in LA with a 500k salary.

If you're a CEO of a multi-million dollar operation, you are. I was reading the bio of the current KPCC CEO, and I would bet he's not doing it for the money. I remember reading that Jarl Mohn donated his salary back to the station, and then donated a few million more. Which is why his name is on the front of the station building.

 

[TomásEstefan]

Let me add that if you're getting $500K in Los Angeles, you're NOT living the high life. That's not a lot of money there, which is partly why some of us no longer live there.

I would respectfully disagree, that's a lot of money anywhere! Based on that, minimum wage should be somewhere around $30 to $40 dollars/hr.

 

[davideduardo]

The CEOs of these stations are professional fund-raisers. That's what they do. Their mission is raising money for their organization. Keep in mind that the CEO and the former CEO answer to the station board. They wouldn't pay them if they didn't have a good reason. It's been my experience that non-profit boards are a lot more responsive to public criticism than those of for-profits. So if anyone has a reasonable case to be made about CEO compensation, bring it up at a station board meeting.

I look at fund raisers in the non-commercial radio world in a similar way to how I look at morning personalities: they get paid based on their human relations skills.

The morning show gets ratings, and the station gets billing. The non-com gets donations and the station continues to stay on the air.

Both are worth lots of money when they outperform the "average" person in their field.

 

[davideduardo]

Let me add that if you're getting $500K in Los Angeles, you're NOT living the high life. That's not a lot of money there, which is partly why some of us no longer live there.

It's towards the low end of "living well" in LA. It is not Calabasas or Beverly Hills or La Cañada-Flintridge, but it is Simi Valley or Glendale or Pasadena.

 

[Weiserguy]

It's towards the low end of "living well" in LA. It is not Calabasas or Beverly Hills or La Cañada-Flintridge, but it is Simi Valley or Glendale or Pasadena.

That's true if that's the sum total of the executive's compensation. But many of these executives also have a perks package: car allowance, housing allowance, T&E expense account, bonuses for exceeding objectives, in some cases gross-ups to cover certain taxes. All that stuff is negotiable for executives with the right skill sets, just as it might be for talent that's in (or perceived to be in) high demand. So $500K isn't necessarily only $500K. It's the totality of someone's compensation that's at issue. And I guarantee 99%+ of working-stiff Americans would shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue to be getting a comp package like that.

 

[davideduardo]

That's true if that's the sum total of the executive's compensation. But many of these executives also have a perks package: car allowance, housing allowance, T&E expense account, bonuses for exceeding objectives, in some cases gross-ups to cover certain taxes. All that stuff is negotiable for executives with the right skill sets, just as it might be for talent that's in (or perceived to be in) high demand. So $500K isn't necessarily only $500K. It's the totality of someone's compensation that's at issue. And I guarantee 99%+ of working-stiff Americans would shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue to be getting a comp package like that.

That is true of top executives who have options and benefits. But in our field, pre-2008 recession and the advent of the smartphone, there were PDs and jocks in LA making that sort of money. Some had ratings bonus deals, but many simply had taken that pay when offered to leave another market or another station.

Also in that range are medical specialists, but they spend a lot of it on malpractice insurance in CA. Business owners, interior decorators, film and music stars, writers, realtors, media salespeople, etc. all have deals that make good money but don't have huge fringe benefits because the people own their own business or are paid on sales and commissions only.

Executives who travel for a company always have T&E expensed / reimbursed as that is a business expense, not a personal one. A housing allowance would only be paid in extreme situations for someone moving from, let's say, Akron, to San Francisco. Car allowances are pretty much gone now as they are taxable. Company vehicles, though, are a bit different in most cases.

It's only the top executives of larger corporations that have those multi-tiered deals. The rest of us get a salary, maybe some bonus money, and a little matching money in our 401-k and that is it. In terms of the number of people in LA getting all those corporate bennies, that is a small number compared to those who don't have a real benefit "package".

 

[Kelly A]

Let me add that if you're getting $500K in Los Angeles, you're NOT living the high life. That's not a lot of money there, which is partly why some of us no longer live there.

That's a great point. To someone living just about anywhere else; $500K seems like a ridiculous amount of money. But in Los Angeles or Silicon Valley? That's considered middle-income management wage.

 

[Weiserguy]

That's a great point. To someone living just about anywhere else; $500K seems like a ridiculous amount of money. But in Los Angeles or Silicon Valley? That's considered middle-income management wage.

I'm in Silicon Valley (in the broad definition, not literally *in* the valley). And I'm fairly certain, with not many exceptions, Big Tech or Biotech VPs (not Senior or Executive VPs, who earn more) are likely to make half a mill (though it's not guaranteed), Senior Directors might pull in half a mill, but not many folks below that level do unless they have very in-demand, very hard-to-source specialties or really good connections. Or they've got their own business and source their skills to multiple clients. And expect for Netflix and a tiny handful of others, not many of them are in media up here.

 

[TheBigA]

Big Tech or Biotech VPs (not Senior or Executive VPs, who earn more) are likely to make half a mill (though it's not guaranteed),

However, if you happen to work for Amazon, you get stock as part of your benefits package. Everyone gets that regardless of your job description. Their stock has quintupled in the last few years. They did a 20 for 1 split last year. It can put you in a different tax bracket. I'd say the same applies for other tech companies.

 

[Weiserguy]

However, if you happen to work for Amazon, you get stock as part of your benefits package. Everyone gets that regardless of your job description. Their stock has quintupled in the last few years. They did a 20 for 1 split last year. It can put you in a different tax bracket. I'd say the same applies for other tech companies.

But what you're describing are not stock options, they're ESOP stock grants. Different things.

Someday, over a beer -- you're buying -- we can discuss stock options, grants, and the downsides of both. For now, suffice it to say there's a framed stock certificate that hangs over my desk, for a company that few remember but actually changed the world, with a label below it that reads "We was gonna be rich, circa 2000".

 

[TheBigA]

But what you're describing are not stock options, they're ESOP stock grants. Different things.

Even then, they have the ability to buy stock on the open market. Unlike you, I did that with one of my previous employers, and it helped me buy my first house. Something I never could do based on salary.

 

[Weiserguy]

Even then, they have the ability to buy stock on the open market. Unlike you, I did that with one of my previous employers, and it helped me buy my first house. Something I never could do based on salary.

Au contraire, bubelah. I got options when I joined said company, more options later as incentive comp, *and* purchased additional shares -- not once, but twice -- on the open market. The open market shares were sold at a major loss, and the options expired worthless when the company was forced into bankruptcy court. And my ESOP shares were similarly worthless. And yet, unless you still use a dial-up modem, you use our technology every time you post to this board.

Unless you've been through it yourself, from either side but preferably both, you're just speaking theoretically (i.e., you don't know what you're talking about).

 

[Kelly A]

I'm in Silicon Valley (in the broad definition, not literally *in* the valley). And I'm fairly certain, with not many exceptions, Big Tech or Biotech VPs (not Senior or Executive VPs, who earn more) are likely to make half a mill (though it's not guaranteed), Senior Directors might pull in half a mill, but not many folks below that level do unless they have very in-demand, very hard-to-source specialties or really good connections. Or they've got their own business and source their skills to multiple clients. And expect for Netflix and a tiny handful of others, not many of them are in media up here.

But we're talking about management of a public (non-proifit) radio station, not big or bio-tech. The fact remains, between housing and general cost of living; $500K is not an unreasonable salary for senior management in a market like L.A.

 

[TheBigA]

But we're talking about management of a public (non-proifit) radio station, not big or bio-tech. The fact remains, between housing and general cost of living; $500K is not an unreasonable salary for senior management in a market like L.A.

Especially when that person is responsible for an operation that bills $42 million in annual revenue.