Question: would stations with HD side channels ever consider leasing their side channels to broadcasters who may be having a difficult time getting a license in a crowed part of the country? Case in point, say a small college station who's been carrier current or cable broadcasting or whatever, badly wants a radio station but there's nothing available in the area or their license quest has been rejected. Theoretically, could said station lease an HD side channel from an existing station who's doing nothing special with their HD side channel anyway, and make some money off it? Everyone wins. I heard someone mention this to me as a possibility, but was he blowing steam or is it a legitimate possibility?
-
Get involved.
We want your input!
Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.
After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.
After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/
Thanks in advance and have fun!
RadioDiscussions Administrators
Leasing HD Side Channel Question
- Thread starter Interstate 78
- Start date
I don't know about the legal issues - iBiquity historically has had something to say about the programming on the HD subs. That's why it wasn't until relatively recently that the HD licensees were permitted to simulcast their AM news-talkers on HD-2s or 3s. So there could be contractual provisions restricting lease-out of the subs, but that's just a theory of mine.
I think a bigger problem you could face is: most stations running HD are owned by big corporate groups. Getting a Clear Channel or an Entercom or CBS to just hand over programming on one of their channels, despite the relative obscurity of an HD sub in the competitive sense, sets off all kinds of bureaucratic alarms. Since they wouldn't have control over the programming, what about obscenity or other legal exposure? Suppose the sub-licensee suddenly starts doing something competitive with their main channel?
Then you're gonna run into the big question - how much will the big operators want for compensation? They've sunk a lot of dough into HD, and they're financially hungry right now. It wouldn't surprise me to learn, even if you clear the hurdles in the foregoing paragraph, you'd find they'd want enough dough to choke a horse to lease an HD sub fulltime.
(I'm setting aside the notion that trying to run an HD subchannel like an actual radio station might actually be a fool's errand. There aren't any radios and few people know or care about HD, so one wonders if the concept has any current validity anyway. If there aren't any listeners and it isn't likely there will be any, anytime soon, what's the point?)
I don't know any of the foregoing for facts, but I think they're likely scenarios - from having dealt with the typical mentality of bigger radio groups. "Your results may vary." Good luck.
I think a bigger problem you could face is: most stations running HD are owned by big corporate groups. Getting a Clear Channel or an Entercom or CBS to just hand over programming on one of their channels, despite the relative obscurity of an HD sub in the competitive sense, sets off all kinds of bureaucratic alarms. Since they wouldn't have control over the programming, what about obscenity or other legal exposure? Suppose the sub-licensee suddenly starts doing something competitive with their main channel?
Then you're gonna run into the big question - how much will the big operators want for compensation? They've sunk a lot of dough into HD, and they're financially hungry right now. It wouldn't surprise me to learn, even if you clear the hurdles in the foregoing paragraph, you'd find they'd want enough dough to choke a horse to lease an HD sub fulltime.
(I'm setting aside the notion that trying to run an HD subchannel like an actual radio station might actually be a fool's errand. There aren't any radios and few people know or care about HD, so one wonders if the concept has any current validity anyway. If there aren't any listeners and it isn't likely there will be any, anytime soon, what's the point?)
I don't know any of the foregoing for facts, but I think they're likely scenarios - from having dealt with the typical mentality of bigger radio groups. "Your results may vary." Good luck.
You'd get more listeners on the CB than on an HD-2.
It would be like the first operators of UHF stations, waiting years and years for folks to buy a new TV with UHF.
So many things are competing for peoples' disposable income that replacing their radios is not a priority.
When UHF was "new" it had content that was new for the time. That did much to promote sales.
We are currently awash in content, so the demand for new outlets is very hard to perceive, except in the indefinite "feeling"
that something is missing from the available choices. While this is true for the commercial competitive model, it doesn't have to be the case for
non-commercial enterprise. Now comes the question of what content, affiliation or interest could be strong enough to cause them to flock to your HD2?
To hear it they need to buy one or more new radios. Many people will upgrade the cable package but would never buy a new radio for a car, for instance.
It would be like the first operators of UHF stations, waiting years and years for folks to buy a new TV with UHF.
So many things are competing for peoples' disposable income that replacing their radios is not a priority.
When UHF was "new" it had content that was new for the time. That did much to promote sales.
We are currently awash in content, so the demand for new outlets is very hard to perceive, except in the indefinite "feeling"
that something is missing from the available choices. While this is true for the commercial competitive model, it doesn't have to be the case for
non-commercial enterprise. Now comes the question of what content, affiliation or interest could be strong enough to cause them to flock to your HD2?
To hear it they need to buy one or more new radios. Many people will upgrade the cable package but would never buy a new radio for a car, for instance.
Interstate 78 said:
I think streaming on the Internet is probably a more viable option. Especially for a college station, most of the target listeners are already online anyway. For campus-wide reception, there is also the option of supplementing the Internet stream with a free-radiate system like St. Leo University in FL uses. Before long, cars will begin to have wireless Internet built-in, which will bring Internet radio to the road.
Here's one for the books: This morning when I was hanging on to the pillow trying to decide if I should get up, I heard a well-known 50 kW "flamethrower" announce; "This is W** DOT COM and XXXX AM, our legacy signal (or something to that effect). I swear I am not making this up!
As per legal (Yes I actually paid for this answer)
You can rent out an HD-2 or HD-3 channel. A "Translator" may rent out it's HD-2 or HD-3 channel as well, and it's leasee may originate it's own programming, (Although only the leasee can originate, NOT the owner)
<End Lawyer speak>
A possible benefit would be to lease an HD-2 and then translate it on an analog translator for broader penetration.
YMMV
Clouseau
You can rent out an HD-2 or HD-3 channel. A "Translator" may rent out it's HD-2 or HD-3 channel as well, and it's leasee may originate it's own programming, (Although only the leasee can originate, NOT the owner)
<End Lawyer speak>
A possible benefit would be to lease an HD-2 and then translate it on an analog translator for broader penetration.
YMMV
Clouseau
Savage said:
That is an interesting thought, sir. I would bet, given the current debt situation, that cash money is worth more than the potential risk or competition. I'd bet one of those companies would gladly lease one of their lesser ranking main channels for bigger bucks, rather than take the smaller dollars for the HD. Surprised it hasn't happened yet. The lease contract could easily be written in such a way that the leasee must follow all laws and is responsible for all fines, similar to car rental agreements. But I would bet it would be easier to lease a radio station than sell it in this economy.
C
Collector
Guest
Broadcasting companies can, and do, lease out their HD-2 and HD-3 channels. Emmis did one earlier this year with World Band Media out of Toronto (for NY and LA and I think Chicago as well). Bonneville has done the same (Washington, DC). Several similar deals are being negotiated with other large companies. The lessees are typically ethnic minorities who target an underserved language group, then sell advertising within that group to cover expenses and (hopefully) generate a profit.
OK... I have another question for the braintrust about leasing out the HD-2 and HD-3 channels. If we are a non-comm operating in the comm band (no license restrictions preventing the stations from being converted back to comm), can we as a non-comm operator lease the subs out to a comm? It's not like anyone is beating down our door to do this, especially since we would have a pretty inferior HD signal coverage area, but I'd still like to know theoretically if it was possible...
C
Collector
Guest
Non-coms have leased out SCA's to commercial ethnic broadcasters for decades, so there'd be precedent for arguing that non-com's leasing HD's to commercial operators should be allowed by the commission. However, since the intent of the whole digital radio 'HD' idea (if not the reality at this point) is that these new channels are available to all for free over the public airwaves, HD's must abide by the same station ID's, Public Affairs and EAS requirements as analog channels. SCA's (which require the purchase of proprietary receivers) don't. I know that you must purchase special receivers for HD's now, but unlike SCA chips, HD receivers are becoming standard equipment in some car models and the table top and portable models are generally available to the public. SCA's will always require special equipment.
The FCC considers HD secondary and tertiary channels as 'intended for public reception." Thus they are allowable as a source for analog translators. The Commission considers SCA channels as "private" broadcasts that are not intended for public reception.
From that, you can draw your own conclusions. As far as I can tell, if you do something with a HD-2 or HD-3 channel that is innovative, then all is well. Do the same thing with SCA, and it is not OK. YMMMV
From that, you can draw your own conclusions. As far as I can tell, if you do something with a HD-2 or HD-3 channel that is innovative, then all is well. Do the same thing with SCA, and it is not OK. YMMMV
Here's a question...totally unrelated to the topic of this thread, but relevant to recent posts....Let's say that you're flipping you HD2 channel out on an analog translator. Okay. Now folks other than dogs with really good hearing can hear it. But, now lets say that the HD2 goes silent, (for whatever reason...exporter lockup, transmitter trouble, etc). Yet, your analog translator keeps pumping out the HD2 programming. Whoops....Right or Wrong? Your thoughts....
stacker said:
Have you noted how long the translator continues to operate after the primary station's HD-2 fails? More than a day?
AM daytimers that operate FM translators on a fulltime basis are required to shut them down at night unless the AM station has operated within the past 24 hours. The applicable rule is 74.1263(b):
An FM booster or FM translator station rebroadcasting the signal of an AM or FM primary station shall not be permitted to radiate during extended periods when signals of the primary station are not being retransmitted. Notwithstanding the foregoing, FM translators rebroadcasting Class D AM stations may continue to operate during nighttime hours only if the AM station has operated within the last 24 hours.
It would grieve me to see an exception made for HD-2 operators, but this would come as no surprise.
Technically they shouldn't be feeding the thing any other way that off-air in nearly most all cases. I know of one in Tulsa that doesn't, but appearently they have some grandfathered provision in that they own the translator too...
For commercial band FM's :
If the translator is a "fill-in", ie the translator 60dbu is completely within the 60 dbu of the primary station, and the primary station also owns the translator, then the translator can be fed by any available means (stl, isdn, IP stream, satellite, etc.)
Unless all of the above criteria are met, the feed must be "directly off-air at the translator site".
I use a silence sensor to turn the translator off if the HD-2 fails.
If the translator is a "fill-in", ie the translator 60dbu is completely within the 60 dbu of the primary station, and the primary station also owns the translator, then the translator can be fed by any available means (stl, isdn, IP stream, satellite, etc.)
Unless all of the above criteria are met, the feed must be "directly off-air at the translator site".
I use a silence sensor to turn the translator off if the HD-2 fails.
clouseau said:
Clouseau, let me ride your legal$ coat-tails on this one.
You are suggesting that a Translator owner can get a license from Ibiquity, and put HD-HD2-HD3, etc on the Translator itself...but cannot originate the programming for the HD2-HD3, etc???????
It would have to be pretty low rent situation. Who would want to rent a signal that's so well hidden, and so tenuous?
Swampland can be rented and used by AM radio stations for tower sites, but that's a very limited market.
Anyone who'd really like to rent land would generally want useful land.
Leasing HD2 and 3 channels is like renting the backside of a billboard. It OUGHT to be cheap, no one sees it.
Swampland can be rented and used by AM radio stations for tower sites, but that's a very limited market.
Anyone who'd really like to rent land would generally want useful land.
Leasing HD2 and 3 channels is like renting the backside of a billboard. It OUGHT to be cheap, no one sees it.
Tom Wells said:
The rates are market dependent, and can represent a major amount of money in larger markets with significant unserved listener groups.
- Status