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Let Us Try This Again, WDJAndO.........
- Thread starter NDXUFan
- Start date
NDXUFan, I know so much more than you think you know. You're a funny character, though. And I think thou dost protest too much. Very telling.
Marty, we will just agree to disagree. Nobody on this board or anybody in this industry could bring an AM standalone music station in a large market with a bad signal into profitability and still do all of the things that the writers on this board think are necessary. It just wouldn't work.
Marty, we will just agree to disagree. Nobody on this board or anybody in this industry could bring an AM standalone music station in a large market with a bad signal into profitability and still do all of the things that the writers on this board think are necessary. It just wouldn't work.
Arbitorn said:
The new tower site for the old WCIN 1480, now WDJO was operational eight years ago. Back then,
the signal on the daytime pattern was pretty strong about 30 minutes before and at local sunset here in downtown Columbus. The WDJO 1480 signal is inaudible on their nighttime patten here in Columbus.
At best, the daytime signal is MUCH weaker here in Columbus right before sunset now.
My point is this. Has the WDJO tower site been maintained or is this the case where we are in a higher sunspot cycle so the WDJO signal is weaker? Maybe WDJO is operating at much lower power?
From a engineering standpoint, WDJO 1480 has had good to excellent audio quality so they must be doing something right.
Programming wise, they are hard to figure out these days. For a real oldies format, they seem to
be all over the place.
1480 had a much better signal on their old Glenwwod ave tower site but back then, the audio was poor. I do agree that their audio is very good. Just with they could crank up their daytime power. They were 5,000 watts and are now 4500 watts daytime and 300 watts night time.
Here's an old post with more info
http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=38829.0;wap2
Here's an old post with more info
http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=38829.0;wap2
1480 had a great daytime signal when they were at 106 Glenwood Avenue years ago. This whole story may have played out differently had those sticks endured. Night was another story but it was still far better than what they are stuck with now.techie2 said:
WDJO started off with a roster of good solid people such as Marty Thompson and Dusty. The music rotation was a bit too tight and predictable. Still, it was not all over the map as it is today. Roger Kay knows the business and had high hopes for the station. But the station needed to be more than voice tracks and oldies songs. They needed to be on the street, have DJ's emcee community events and have some solid promotions. When was the last time you heard of a promotion on the station.
Their signal is weak but they can make money if they would ever do the right things that every radio pro needs to be done. For whatever reason, the management at the station never really displayed a solid game plan. As Marty don't try to compete with WGRR and play what they play. You will lose that game.
By the way who is charge?
I know the station has to be up for sale but who in their right mind pay what they must get for the station? I wanted WDJO to work but they are a poorly run radio station.
Their signal is weak but they can make money if they would ever do the right things that every radio pro needs to be done. For whatever reason, the management at the station never really displayed a solid game plan. As Marty don't try to compete with WGRR and play what they play. You will lose that game.
By the way who is charge?
I know the station has to be up for sale but who in their right mind pay what they must get for the station? I wanted WDJO to work but they are a poorly run radio station.
Radio 25, the station can NOT make money as it is. The things you say about being on the street cost money, and there's not enough support for a standalone AM playing music in this sized market for it to work. This is not Lancaster or even Hamilton. Plus it seems there is no money in the bank.
When the station had those "good solid people" on 1160, they were on the street and doing all of those things. They NEVER turned a profit. Believe what you want. It's over for the oldies/classic hits format on AM and it's not the fault of the people running it. AM radio and music don't mix. It's just a matter of time now before the station goes dark, goes religion, or gets sold.
When the station had those "good solid people" on 1160, they were on the street and doing all of those things. They NEVER turned a profit. Believe what you want. It's over for the oldies/classic hits format on AM and it's not the fault of the people running it. AM radio and music don't mix. It's just a matter of time now before the station goes dark, goes religion, or gets sold.
M
medman
Guest
Ok - as an outsider to the business I just read some of the comments about this sad state of events and shake my head.
I happen to like a lot of the music that the station is playing these days, which is on the old side of my age range, but I also enjoyed a lot of the earlier music, some of which they still play. And I'm not sure that conversation is really cogent to the problem. I do remember when Dusty Rhodes and a number of the other DJ's did appearances, summer events and such - there was definitely a time when WDJO was more visible in the community. But it sounds like that really wasn't working either despite the fond recollections of some former staff on here. So is the lack of success really about the purity or form of the programming?
If what MTHBSTR is saying about the station NEVER making a profit, even with that presence and staff - wow, well that speaks to a bigger issue. And remember, that was at a time prior to the recession, which I suspect a lot of businesses have really never recovered from. Certainly not in our industry, and I assume the same for commercial broadcasting revenues.
In view of that, it's hard to find some model that makes a profit being on AM in a city like Cincinnati as a stand alone business. Perhaps religious has a chance, but more likely this is like Apple and Samsung taking 97% of the smartphone market profits. There are lots of other companies competing with very good products, but no profits, or worse, big losses to show for their efforts. Substitute 700WLW and 55WKRC for the parties above and I suspect you've got a pretty good example of where the money goes. And whether we like to admit it or not, if there isn't money flowing in, it takes donations or personal benefactors/investors to make up the difference. How long can that go on for any business? Now I don't have financial data on any of these to back it up, but it's pretty obvious if you look at their advertiser lists on their websites. Two AM stations have 90%+ of all the substantial advertisers.
C'mon guys (apologies to ladies on here!), how many of you have an iPhone or an iPod touch or Android? If so, you know that the hardware doesn't even support the AM band, and you can only reach the station(s) through a data connection and streaming. Try to go to the store and buy an AM capable "walkman" these days - just about non existent. So, to make matters worse, the audience for the product is moving away because the technology is driving the change, even if they don't want to. We call this "forced migration" and it happens in industries reliant on technologies to deliver service to an end user.
Now I'm sure there is plenty of blame to share around about the operations of WDJO, but as is usually the case, all of the parties are responsible for some part of the problem, not just one or two like a lot of the posts here imply. I googled an article that was way back in 2006 with Dusty Rhodes talking:
"Dusty Rhodes is working at Oldies WDJO (1160) in Northern Kentucky; he led investors to lease the station in Feb 2006, since Clear Channel pulled WSAI in Jan 2005 and turned it into liberal talk radio." Dusty says (7/03), "...and since 1991, I have been Hamilton County (Ohio) Auditor."
Maybe the initial concept was just flawed, even back at the start.
My guess is that one of the fastest ways for me to lose $1,000,000(or more) would be to buy and operate an AM station in Cincinnati!
Kudo's to all the people who tried to make it a success, sometimes even the best intentions turn out sour.
Lastly, and as it often happens, investors sue one another in an attempt to recover their money, and sometimes their reputation for a failed business venture. That seems to be the case with this one - but I doubt anyone will benefit or look very good at the end of the process. Just doesn't happen.
Too bad - what a waste.
I happen to like a lot of the music that the station is playing these days, which is on the old side of my age range, but I also enjoyed a lot of the earlier music, some of which they still play. And I'm not sure that conversation is really cogent to the problem. I do remember when Dusty Rhodes and a number of the other DJ's did appearances, summer events and such - there was definitely a time when WDJO was more visible in the community. But it sounds like that really wasn't working either despite the fond recollections of some former staff on here. So is the lack of success really about the purity or form of the programming?
If what MTHBSTR is saying about the station NEVER making a profit, even with that presence and staff - wow, well that speaks to a bigger issue. And remember, that was at a time prior to the recession, which I suspect a lot of businesses have really never recovered from. Certainly not in our industry, and I assume the same for commercial broadcasting revenues.
In view of that, it's hard to find some model that makes a profit being on AM in a city like Cincinnati as a stand alone business. Perhaps religious has a chance, but more likely this is like Apple and Samsung taking 97% of the smartphone market profits. There are lots of other companies competing with very good products, but no profits, or worse, big losses to show for their efforts. Substitute 700WLW and 55WKRC for the parties above and I suspect you've got a pretty good example of where the money goes. And whether we like to admit it or not, if there isn't money flowing in, it takes donations or personal benefactors/investors to make up the difference. How long can that go on for any business? Now I don't have financial data on any of these to back it up, but it's pretty obvious if you look at their advertiser lists on their websites. Two AM stations have 90%+ of all the substantial advertisers.
C'mon guys (apologies to ladies on here!), how many of you have an iPhone or an iPod touch or Android? If so, you know that the hardware doesn't even support the AM band, and you can only reach the station(s) through a data connection and streaming. Try to go to the store and buy an AM capable "walkman" these days - just about non existent. So, to make matters worse, the audience for the product is moving away because the technology is driving the change, even if they don't want to. We call this "forced migration" and it happens in industries reliant on technologies to deliver service to an end user.
Now I'm sure there is plenty of blame to share around about the operations of WDJO, but as is usually the case, all of the parties are responsible for some part of the problem, not just one or two like a lot of the posts here imply. I googled an article that was way back in 2006 with Dusty Rhodes talking:
"Dusty Rhodes is working at Oldies WDJO (1160) in Northern Kentucky; he led investors to lease the station in Feb 2006, since Clear Channel pulled WSAI in Jan 2005 and turned it into liberal talk radio." Dusty says (7/03), "...and since 1991, I have been Hamilton County (Ohio) Auditor."
Maybe the initial concept was just flawed, even back at the start.
My guess is that one of the fastest ways for me to lose $1,000,000(or more) would be to buy and operate an AM station in Cincinnati!
Kudo's to all the people who tried to make it a success, sometimes even the best intentions turn out sour.
Lastly, and as it often happens, investors sue one another in an attempt to recover their money, and sometimes their reputation for a failed business venture. That seems to be the case with this one - but I doubt anyone will benefit or look very good at the end of the process. Just doesn't happen.
Too bad - what a waste.
As only a listener to radio with no experience or knowledge of the field, let me give you an outsider's opinion....Oldies radio, either AM or FM is probably dead. Why, the same reason the old 1940's music format died. All the listeners died! Remember, those "kids" that danced to Ferlin Huskey's "Gone" are mostly GONE. The first Elvis devotees are 68-75 yrs old. Even the listeners to the great 60's music are getting up there and slowly dying off. Any station that tries to promote events for this demographic is going to have trouble. A sock hop isn't going to work since most of these folks even have trouble walking. Want to see something sad;;;; go to a car show on any evening when these folks bring out their 55 Chevs and their 57 Fords. These owners in many cases are barely getting around and some are on walkers! For us "oldsters" that still love to listen to these old tunes, the technology now has given up the ability to obtain and listen to any tunes we want without worry about signal strength or needless chatter. Plus, the internet has made it possible to interact with the some folks who have great libraries of music that are kind enough to share. All these factors add to the problems with oldies on AM radio. Some folks have been critical of my post on this site since they say I "just don't like DJO's music selection". Well, they are probably right, but that's okay. As a Clermont County country boy who is in his mid sixties I have a hard time relating to rap or hip hop or the 21 century black urban culture also, but that isn't all bad either. We are all a product of our age, our circumstances and our experiences. I do wish DJO could play all 50' and 60 music and I do love that music, but realistically, I know that just ain't gonna happen folks. I just hate to see that format end. Thanks for reading.
I disagree about the viability of the format... Even on AM... WDJO should have tilted older and softer from the start.. IMHO we messed up at 1530 trying to make it too boss (totally my fault). There is a huge opportunity to deliver familiar, friendly 50+ programming.
Dychwald nailed it. The age wave is now a tsunami... But you actually need to understand the demo and bust hump to sell it. There are no orders coming in on the fax machine. Boomers have a ton of dough and another 30+ years to spend it.. Wise up folks. (Whew. I feel better).
Dychwald nailed it. The age wave is now a tsunami... But you actually need to understand the demo and bust hump to sell it. There are no orders coming in on the fax machine. Boomers have a ton of dough and another 30+ years to spend it.. Wise up folks. (Whew. I feel better).
J
johncbrown450
Guest
I still remember 1530 AM. Good ol' WSAI. I'm only 21 years old and I remember that station quite well. In the early days of my memory (1996ish, age 5 or so), my mom had a 1979 Ford Pinto (AKA the bomb on wheels) that had the standard Ford Philco AM only radio. The only station with music back then was WSAI 1530, and it was all Frank Sinatra. I would always complain to my mom about why she listened to that crap instead of country like my dad did (He's been fans of B105, Y-96, 96.5 The Star, 94.9 The Star, 97.3 The Wolf, and now his dial's back on B105 since the Wolf's got such a weak signal that you might as well kill it. The howl is more of a meow.) My mom's response was, "There's nothing else on but talk."
What AM radio needs is more music. There ARE listeners out there. They left because of idiots like Rush Limbaugh, Bill Cunningham, Glen Beck, Rupert Murdoch (Owner of Faux News), and many others. Once all stations went to being talk only, everybody ran like heck to FM. FM has the music that was replaced with talk on AM. Also, not all AM listeners are old geezers. I'm 21 and I LOVE AM radio. There are others like me. I've showed my friends what good AM radio can sound like (Deep Purple's Smoke on the water on WDJO) and they LOVED IT!!!!!!!! There are alot of people in my generation who actually like the things our elders like for music. Not everybody is glued to sirius XM or the mp3 player. AM radio is like vinyl. There are still young people who love it. Yes, young people like records. There are actually some modern alternative rock bands that release LPs. Vinyl and AM are NOT dead. You just need to figure out how to reach an audience other than right wing nuts and senior citizens. Heck, grandpa's old radio probably has FM on it by now. Grandpa's probably listening to WOBO, WMKV, WLHS, or WGUC.
As for WDJO's current issues, the format made an attempt to blend 50s and 60s with the 70s. That is a recipe for DISASTER! 2 separate formats that clash. The 50s fans think the 70s music stinks or is too loud. My aunt was a WDJO fan until the classic rock was added. She's 74 and loves Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, the Van Dells, and pretty much anything from 1950 to 1965. Nowadays, when we're in the car with WDJO on the dial and they go from Elvis to Foghat, she makes me turn off the radio. She swears to God they're yelling. When it comes to an oldies format, you need to choose a side. Ages 40 to 65 or 65+. Trying to fit both demographics WILL NOT WORK! And that's why 1480 WILL go dark. Alchemy really screwed up! In the words of a grandma, "Them whippersnappers added hippie music to my oldies channel!"
What AM radio needs is more music. There ARE listeners out there. They left because of idiots like Rush Limbaugh, Bill Cunningham, Glen Beck, Rupert Murdoch (Owner of Faux News), and many others. Once all stations went to being talk only, everybody ran like heck to FM. FM has the music that was replaced with talk on AM. Also, not all AM listeners are old geezers. I'm 21 and I LOVE AM radio. There are others like me. I've showed my friends what good AM radio can sound like (Deep Purple's Smoke on the water on WDJO) and they LOVED IT!!!!!!!! There are alot of people in my generation who actually like the things our elders like for music. Not everybody is glued to sirius XM or the mp3 player. AM radio is like vinyl. There are still young people who love it. Yes, young people like records. There are actually some modern alternative rock bands that release LPs. Vinyl and AM are NOT dead. You just need to figure out how to reach an audience other than right wing nuts and senior citizens. Heck, grandpa's old radio probably has FM on it by now. Grandpa's probably listening to WOBO, WMKV, WLHS, or WGUC.
As for WDJO's current issues, the format made an attempt to blend 50s and 60s with the 70s. That is a recipe for DISASTER! 2 separate formats that clash. The 50s fans think the 70s music stinks or is too loud. My aunt was a WDJO fan until the classic rock was added. She's 74 and loves Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard, the Van Dells, and pretty much anything from 1950 to 1965. Nowadays, when we're in the car with WDJO on the dial and they go from Elvis to Foghat, she makes me turn off the radio. She swears to God they're yelling. When it comes to an oldies format, you need to choose a side. Ages 40 to 65 or 65+. Trying to fit both demographics WILL NOT WORK! And that's why 1480 WILL go dark. Alchemy really screwed up! In the words of a grandma, "Them whippersnappers added hippie music to my oldies channel!"
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