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Let's make some freakin' lemonade!

M

Mike Walker

Guest
HD is now standard. The law of the land. As standard as the Zenith stereo system and 75us pre-emphasis for analog FM. HD has it's limitations. SO DOES ANALOG FM! So does every technology.

It IS the future. Likely the FCC will require conversion at some point in the future. Stations will either adopt the technology, or leave the air when that happens. Of course there will be better technology tomorrow. There was better technology AT THE TIME our analog FM Stereo system was adopted. That's the nature of technology...after you adopt a standard, something better always comes along. But the solution isn't to not adopt standards and stick with them, it's to make the best of the standards we have. At least the FCC is doing what it's supposed to do, unlike the AM Stereo "in"decision. When they say things like "let the marketplace decide" they, in effect are delegating one of the primary responsibilities of the agency...choosing technical standards. If they aren't going to do that, then perhaps we don't need the FCC. Maybe roll it into Homeland Security, and put Brownie in charge!

Seriously, we may not like this or that part of the decision. But now is the time to MAKE IT WORK! We know, for instance, that with immaculate engineering, keeping everything "broad and linear" on the transmission end, the effects on analog AM reception can be minimized. Not eliminated, perhaps, but minimized. Let's (as an industry) quit wringing our hands, and make this work! EVERY technology can be improved. There are som magnificent analog FM stereo tuners, despite the deficiencies of that technology. There are some REMARKABLE turntables, phono cartridges, and preamps, despite the obvious and numerous limitations of that technology. Hell, even cart machines...a flawed technology if ever there was one...could be made to sound good by a competent engineer. Let's quit whining about the lemons we've been given, and make some freakin' lemonade!
 
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. I'm not sure we'll EVER see all Digital, but we'll see.

I DO think we might want to stop belly aching about the grant and start finding where it might cause problems and find ways to resolve them.

This very well may be ANOTHER defining moment in radio's history.

Whether it's "Talk on AM" or "New Coke" remains to be seen.

Clouseau
 
Don't misunderstand Clouseau, by "conversion" I don't mean go to an all digital mode. I hope that NEVER happens in my lifetime. I've got too much invested in my antique radio collection! I meant add digital capability. All digital operation now would be illegal, anyway! I just meant, let's try adopting the standard, and where problems arise (and they will), apply some creativity and engineering saavy to fixing them. ALL new technology has limitations. This is no different.

Many act as if the HD standard was suddenly thrust on the public with no warning. Not true! IBOC technology has in the working prototype stage for more than a decade (I heard prototypes at the NAB Radio Show at New Orleans now infamous Convention Center in October of 95).

When the FCC said "no L band", the die was cast. Our digital radio system in America WOULD BE some type of in-band-on-channel format, with all the limitations and compromises that this implies. What we have is the result of a decade and a half of research by many contributing companies, and lots of talented engineers. They were asked to, in effect, squeeze a gallon (high quality digital radio) into a quart container (the traditional fm, and more daunting AM bands). They did their best. Did YOU file a public comment when the FCC was seeking input? If you have a strong opinion one way or another, I hope so, because that's the way it works. But, as with elections, when the decision is final, we ALL have to live with it. Might as well unite and work together to, well, make lemonade!
 
To heck with the antique radios! ;D They'll still be antiques regardless of whether they work with current standards or not. AMPS cellphones are still antiques, but I don't want AMPS to stick around just because I have an old AMPS phone that may or may not still work sitting at the bottom of a box in some closet. *IF* this has to happen, make it quick. Give a 5-10 year transition period after which the switch must be flipped to full digital. The worst case scenario is that we get stuck in this hybrid mode for an extended period of time.
 
The FCC may have voted to allow HD AM radio operation at night, but they are not the ones who strictly enforce the laws of physics.

Last time I checked, those laws have yet to be repealed.

Any talk of going full-digital within 5, 10 or 15 years is pure foolishness. Ya think people will just run out and buy HD radios? This is not 1987 when there was no satellite radio and no Internet.

Traditional radio no longer has a monopoly on delivering live audio to the public.
 
Going all digital would be retarded now. Number one, analog is NEEDED as a fallback for when HD doesn't work. Know all those stations that you can't get in HD now, even though lots of them (in distant towns) may be broadcasting an HD signal? Sure their analog signal may be receivable only in mono, or noisy stereo, but would you want to lose them altogether?

More important, what about emergencies? DO YOU REALLY WANT YOUR ONLY LINK TO THE PUBLIC DURING TIMES OF EMERGENCY TO BE BASED ON COMPUTER DOO-HICKEYS WITH HARD DRIVES??? Come on...simplest is best in emergencies. Until there are hand-crank HD radios that can run for an hour with a two minute wind, don't even talk to me about turning off solid, reliable, energy-efficient, robust analog! Next emergency, people may actually die because of it. The FCC isn't that foolish, even if some people may be. HD Radio, unlike HDTV, doesn't free up any spectrum to be auctioned off. There's no compelling reason AT ALL to turn analog off, and lots of great ones to keep it on.

Hell, say you don't care about emergencies, serving your community, or poor people who can't afford a new radio. If you're really that selfish, then I repeat the most self-centered reason of all...YOU NEED ANALOG FOR A MORE RELIABLE EXPERIENCE WHEN LISTENING TO HD!

I'm all for digital technology. But the transition to complete digital must take DECADES, if at all. Analog radio does some things that even HD's most ardent supporters must admit (if they're technically oriented enough to understand) digital can't. At least not yet. Like reach great distances, under adverse weather conditions, reaching cheap alternate power emergency radios, and existing battery-operated portables. Until that is possible with digital, turning off analog is a public safety issue of the first magnitude!

And if you don't think raido has a role to play in emergencies, you better run...because you are in the presence of broadcasters who take that kind of charge as seriously as an attack on our mother(s)!
 
vsa said:
The FCC may have voted to allow HD AM radio operation at night, but they are not the ones who strictly enforce the laws of physics.

Last time I checked, those laws have yet to be repealed.

Any talk of going full-digital within 5, 10 or 15 years is pure foolishness. Ya think people will just run out and buy HD radios? This is not 1987 when there was no satellite radio and no Internet.

Traditional radio no longer has a monopoly on delivering live audio to the public.
Click to expand...


Yea, Satellite radio, What a success that is. I guess because of its success the two companies want to merge so that they can survive. Internet radio? Yeea it's great but I can't hear it when I'm driving on Rt 80, or on my local street for that matter. I know it's coming, its coming.. So is Summer.
 
Mike Walker said:
Let's quit whining about the lemons we've been given, and make some freakin' lemonade!
Click to expand...
Good luck with your new lemonade stand.
 
Wait a minute. Is this Kool-Aid(tm) brand lemonade?

Or is this " Country Time Lemonade flavored powdered instant drink mix?

Tastes like the no-cal version too, with Nutra-Sweet (tm).

Apparently fresh lemons have been banned by edict.
 
Mike Walker said:
HD is now standard. The law of the land. It IS the future. Likely the FCC will require conversion at some point in the future. Stations will either adopt the technology, or leave the air when that happens.
Click to expand...

My understanding, is that stations are not being forced to convert to HD/IBOC. Unless, there is consumer uptake in HD/IBOC, this is all a moot-point. I suspect, that the forced conversion to digital TV is going to be a disaster, but consumers are far less likely to give up their TVs, than their analog radios. With Bridge Ratings downgrading the estimated number of HD radios sold, and with no consumer interest in HD/IBOC, how is this conversion to all-digital mode ever going to take place ? I suppose, automakers would have to be willing to add HD radios, as standard equipment, but that would mean raising the base price of their automobiles, by hundreds of dollars (highly-unlikely); adding HD radios, as optional equipment, will not help. Meanwhile, as the AM band becomes more-and-more trashed by IBUZZ, the few listeners will just turn to other forms of entertainment, rather than spending hundreds on new HD radios (how many consumers care about AM). AM gets improved audio quality for their news/talk/sports programming, at the expense of jamming and less coverage.

So, what does HD-FM offer:

"Further Order on Digital Radio Adopted"

"Stations that chose to broadcast in digital must provide a free digital stream that simulcasts the programming of the analog channel."

http://www.broadcastlawblog.com/archives/digital-radio-further-order-on-digital-radio-adopted.html

Looks like one of the HD channels must be dedicated to simulcasting the analog channel - whipee !

HD/IBOC is up against educated consumers, thanks the the Internet (75% of Internet users read blogs):

http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/23/its-on-hd-radio-gets-fcc-blessing/1#comments
 
PocketRadio said:
Mike Walker said:
HD is now standard. The law of the land. As standard as the Zenith stereo system and 75us pre-emphasis for analog FM. HD has it's limitations. SO DOES ANALOG FM! So does every technology. It IS the future.!
Click to expand...

Found some more comments:

http://www.digg.com/tech_news/It_s_on_HD_radio_gets_FCC_blessing
http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=987872&comments=true
Click to expand...

Hey pocket.

Welcome to the HD Board. You might not want to post bare posts with links. There is a rumor that "SaynotoIBOC" and "700wlw" have been shown the door for doing just that. Anyone here would hate to see that happen to you.

As a regular here, let me welcome you. I'm sure I speak for the masses when I say ...

We welcome your intelligent opinion. That's why the board is here.

That is "WE WELCOME YOUR OPINION"

If anyone just posts incessant links that are irrelevant, the posters are shown the door.(Like "Saynottoiboc" and "700wlw".) I don't know this for sure. But it looks like that is what happened.

Again welcome to the HD board. Pro or con you are welcome.

Idiots, however, it would appear...are shown the door.


Clouseau
 
Thanks clouseau - I have looking through all the message boards on this site, and the HD Board seems to have to most fighting. I was reluctant to join in, but I love radio (especially AM) and over the past few months started looking into HD/IBOC. I saw that a few posters here were going overboard with links, without much added discussion. I don't mind a heathly debate, but I refuse to fight with anyone. Hope it is ok to use links, once in a while, to back up one's opinions.
 
There is no standard for HD Radio. Since iBiquity declared the technology proprietary so the FCC won't declare a mandatory standard for broadcasters or manufactures.

HD Radio will succeed when two things happen:

-Receivers must cost the same if not cheaper than other portable competition, including analog radio.
-Content must be available to motivate somebody to purchase a receiver.

Until those two things happen, only the radio geeks will have a use for HD radio.
 
radiorob2.0 said:
There is no standard for HD Radio. Since iBiquity declared the technology proprietary so the FCC won't declare a mandatory standard for broadcasters or manufactures.

HD Radio will succeed when two things happen:

-Receivers must cost the same if not cheaper than other portable competition, including analog radio.
-Content must be available to motivate somebody to purchase a receiver.

Until those two things happen, only the radio geeks will have a use for HD radio.
Click to expand...

I'm confused - I thought that the FCC just declared HD/IBOC, as the standard ? I agree with you otherwise, but I read that the HD chips, to include licensing fees, can run half the cost of HD radios. I don't see how, this could ever happen, that poratable HD radios will ever approach the $5 - $25 range of analog radios. Also, I read that digital receivers in the UK cost at least $100. Can FMeXtra and CQuam still complete in the US ?
 
They did declare it the standard. The FCC also said that any applications for other technology will be "summarily dismissed". Sounds like a standard to me. They also said (I'm paraphrasing from the decision I read yesterday) that no date requiring conversion to digital is in effect "at this time". Which means they probably will revisit that issue (requiring stations to go digital) at a later date. I believe that WILL happen in the next few years, but stations won't be required, or even encouraged to cease analog broadcasting. The decision requires stations to have one digital channel that simulcasts the analog channel, with "at least comparable" quality.
 
So, when you say, conversion to digital, you really mean hybred-digital ? Yes, they will have to continue their analog broadcasts, because right now, unless consumer interests change drastically, which is highly-unlikely, HD/IBOC stations are just broadcasting into thin-air.
 
In light of the FCC vote, I decided to make my own brand of lemonade by cranking up Chris Cuff's Alfredo-lite AM stereo (c-quam) Transmitter and playing loud on my receiver. Since his TX has no NRSC filtering it extends the signal out to about 14 kHz.

The sound is nothing short of glorious; full frequency response, incredible separation and NO digital artifacts. Hearing AM this way gives me a sense of what the band was really capable of. What a pity!

db
 
dbdigital said:
The sound is nothing short of glorious; full frequency response, incredible separation and NO digital artifacts. Hearing AM this way gives me a sense of what the band was really capable of. What a pity!
Click to expand...

The real world has thunderstorms, the aurora borealis, light dimmers and computers.
 
DavidEduardo said:
dbdigital said:
The sound is nothing short of glorious; full frequency response, incredible separation and NO digital artifacts. Hearing AM this way gives me a sense of what the band was really capable of. What a pity!
Click to expand...

The real world has thunderstorms, the aurora borealis, light dimmers and computers.
Click to expand...

All of which mute, or rebuffer HD digital signals.
HD signals are so subject to interference from these sources that the often required external antennas have to be far removed from the HD radios. This in spite of the fact that the standard supplied connected antennas on the same HD radios pick up analog AM and FM perfectly.
HD radios interfere with HD digital reception themselves, outside interference just makes it worse.
 
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