• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Let's start overreading the 12+

C

CFKane

By now, most have seen 12+ numbers available in all the usual places. Despite being mostly useless numbers, in the long run, isn't it time for the pundits to read too much into them now? I will fire the first shot, and then declare myself dumber, having started such a string...


WWTQ up, despite "DeltaKing" and "Radiosaur", and their combined expertise claiming this would have been impossible. Look for flying cars, and proof the world is round by the time the actual book comes out... I guess WWTQ is more popular than both sports stations, suggesting nascar coverage, and football scores are far too radical, and non mainstream in Memphis... Maybe WWTQ will bill enough to meet even DK's stringent standards for "acceptable", soon.

Flame on, folks... It's just 12+. It beats sitting around waiting for someone to blow the lid on the real scandal that surfaced last week. I have had a top 10 list waiting for that one to get posted. CFKane
 
Considering that WWTQ is still down from the MOYL days, yes they are up in this past trend. Good for them, I guess. Did I say it was impossible? No. I think "nowhere to go but up" was the statement.

Better for you, CF. 'RVR is doing well, congrats. However, 'MBZ isn't. Spin that one any way you like, sir. WMC-FM is putting some real distance between themselves and Da Buzz. Plus, can someone just turn off the lights at Q107.5? Stick a fork in 'em, they're done.

There is just no room for 2 AM sports stations, I'll agree with you there. But, what can they do? Classic Country won't bill dollar one on AM. On FM it would be dicey because of the demos it would draw (45+). I'd rather put an aggressive "guy talk" on 790 (Leykis, Don and Mike, etc.) with some local color. That may be the best bet to get out of the 2 horse race and still make some $$.

Notice I don't go to the personal attacks? No need for it.

DK

> By now, most have seen 12+ numbers available in all the
> usual places. Despite being mostly useless numbers, in the
> long run, isn't it time for the pundits to read too much
> into them now? I will fire the first shot, and then declare
> myself dumber, having started such a string...
>
>
> WWTQ up, despite "DeltaKing" and "Radiosaur", and their
> combined expertise claiming this would have been impossible.
> Look for flying cars, and proof the world is round by the
> time the actual book comes out... I guess WWTQ is more
> popular than both sports stations, suggesting nascar
> coverage, and football scores are far too radical, and non
> mainstream in Memphis... Maybe WWTQ will bill enough to meet
> even DK's stringent standards for "acceptable", soon.
>
> Flame on, folks... It's just 12+. It beats sitting around
> waiting for someone to blow the lid on the real scandal that
> surfaced last week. I have had a top 10 list waiting for
> that one to get posted. CFKane
>
 
> Considering that WWTQ is still down from the MOYL days, yes
> they are up in this past trend. Good for them, I guess. Did
> I say it was impossible? No. I think "nowhere to go but up"
> was the statement.

I give 680 about a year before they make a move at this point. AA is billing gar-bagggge, and the heat is on at Entercom. Except for 'RVR, $$ are waaaaaay off over there.

That was your exact statement... A far cry from "nowhere to go but up". Sorry I went with your most recent example of "encouraging" WWTQ. For your sake, I will not dealve into the absurdity of the "heat being on" nature of that one.

>
> Better for you, CF. 'RVR is doing well, congrats. However,
> 'MBZ isn't. Spin that one any way you like, sir.

NO real desire to spin that statement, it actually has merit... 100 is doing well, which, Is reason for YOU to celebrate?

WMC-FM is
> putting some real distance between themselves and Da Buzz.

I am sure you, and the others at infinity are celebrating that, no doubt.

> Notice I don't go to the personal attacks? No need for it.

No need at all, sorry I pointed out your previous post, you wrote about 680. Enjoy that moral high ground... CFKane
 
Just to clear things up, I said it is not mathematically possible to lose an entire audience and gain in 12+ unless you pick up as much or more in another demo. Perhaps some of the Perry Como fans stuck around and you gained some younger audience, which one would expect. Still, unless you had a complete demographic shift and that entire 12+ number comes from your target demo, it's not a stellar performance.

But that was a nice preemptive strike. Still smarting, I suppose.

We can armchair quarterback all we like. My job no longer depends on a ratings book. :)




<P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P>
 
> We can armchair quarterback all we like. My job no longer
> depends on a ratings book. :)
>
Exactly! Thanks for catching the humor. I love the fact, so many on this board, wish it ill, due to politics. You certainly have listened, and made fair appraisals of it. I propose your next wager, not involve steak, but beer, at a nearby pub, if you are right, I will gladly pay up.

Since my career supposedly does base itself on ratings, and employment in radio, beer is all I can afford anyway... One year from now, Air America WWTQ will still be there, and have more ratings (12+ or 25-54) than it does currently.

You taking that bet? One look at national numbers for our current president, suggests I am getting a Killian's Red in 365 days if you do. CFKane
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

It beats sitting around waiting for someone to blow the lid on the real scandal that surfaced last week. I have had a top 10 list waiting for that one to get posted.

<hr></blockquote>

I am dying to take a shot at this one. But I'll sit and wait.
 
<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

There is just no room for 2 AM sports stations, I'll agree with you there. But, what can they do? Classic Country won't bill dollar one on AM. On FM it would be dicey because of the demos it would draw (45+). I'd rather put an aggressive "guy talk" on 790 (Leykis, Don and Mike, etc.) with some local color. That may be the best bet to get out of the 2 horse race and still make some $$.

<hr></blockquote>

Don't forget, there is a third on the way, so there sure ain't room for three. While WMC-AM has no ratings in 12+, they do bill money thanks to the University of Memphis and St. Louis Cardinals baseball. Money on the books is what it's all about on a target-specific format.

Now let's talk next spring about their future if they either lose or choose not to rebid on the Tigers. They'll flip faster than a burger on the backyard grill.
 
> In reply to:There is just no room for 2 AM sports stations,
> I'll agree with you there. But, what can they do? Classic
> Country won't bill dollar one on AM. On FM it would be dicey
> because of the demos it would draw (45+). I'd rather put an
> aggressive "guy talk" on 790 (Leykis, Don and Mike, etc.)
> with some local color. That may be the best bet to get out
> of the 2 horse race and still make some $$.
>
That's what they had when they flipped to sports, and it wasn't doing squat, IIRC.


> Don't forget, there is a third on the way, so there sure
> ain't room for three. While WMC-AM has no ratings in 12+,
> they do bill money thanks to the University of Memphis and
> St. Louis Cardinals baseball. Money on the books is what
> it's all about on a target-specific format.
>
> Now let's talk next spring about their future if they either
> lose or choose not to rebid on the Tigers. They'll flip
> faster than a burger on the backyard grill.
>
I've heard it said on the board that RC Johnson wants the Tigers back on
FM, but where? Given that KIX is committed to the Titans and NASCAR, and
103.5 is with the Grizzlies, there's really nowhere at Citadel for them.

There's also no place for them at CC, either, since Rock 103 is really the
only FM option. FM 100? Maybe, because they blast out all over West Tennessee,
but if they're wanting to build a bigger Tiger Sports Network, that would pre-empt the small stations like in Covington. 93X? Hell, they may be Spanish by
this time next year, what with their showing today....

Your thoughts?
 
Jerry Springer is God.<P ID="signature">______________
Leonard Lawrence</P>
 
> One
> year from now, Air America WWTQ will still be there, and
> have more ratings (12+ or 25-54) than it does currently.
>

That's WAAAAY too easy for you. I think it will go up as well. I said earlier it won't beat Easy 680 in the repective target demos. You'll gain a bit more.

> You taking that bet? One look at national numbers for our
> current president, suggests I am getting a Killian's Red in
> 365 days if you do. CFKane
>

Not so fast. Low numbers for the prez does NOT mean the country is shifting left. I'm not all enamored of some of Bush's decisions lately, but that doesn't mean I'm running for Hillaryland.

My appraisal of 680 was based on listening and the fact that the majority of those who would identify themsleves as 'liberal' are black, and WDIA superserves them as does WLOK. That said, hiring Leon was genius and may put a dent in that.

One year from now, let's look at Easy 680's highest numbers in its target (old folks), and see if WWTQ has beaten that in 25-54.

If so, the beer's on me.

If WWTQ beats WREC, the steak's on me as well.



<P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P>
 
The Tigers, FM100, 300k and you.

> FM 100? Maybe, because they blast out all
> over West Tennessee,
> but if they're wanting to build a bigger Tiger Sports
> Network, that would pre-empt the small stations like in
> Covington.

> Your thoughts?

Well, FM100's signal really isn't the issue some may think.

Sure, they have ~3x the ERP of the other Class Cs (although that ERP is only in the horizontal plane). But, power ain't anything.

The difference between 300k and 100k is only about 4db +/-. That's not much at all; if you look at coverage maps, FM100 only goes (literally) a few miles further than the others on its 60 dbu. And, since the troposphere changes from hour to hour, that difference is really within the margin of error (we'll leave the discussion of ducting, troposcatter and the like for another day).

Remember in VHF, the 3 most important things to one's coverage are height, height, and height. Big power helps get you into buildings, but that's not much of an issue in the rural areas.

Saying that one has 300k, though, I'm sure has sales benefits.

Did FM100 ever replace the antenna they burned up?

DE
 
Okay, I will stand by what I said in that AA bills nothing. I have heard very few spots on 680, and that tells me that they aren't making much $$. Am I wrong? I'm still hearing stories of AA paying stations for carriage. That could be the revenue stream for 680, but spot revenue is apparently non-existant. Let's face it, 'RVR makes the $$ for the cluster. Once again, am I wrong? Regardless of the #'s, if they can't sell it, it will go away in time. Easy 680 had #'s, but they billed diddly squat. Hence...they are gone. That's my point. Show me the money.
 
Re: The Tigers, FM100, 300k and you.

I begged then Scripps-Howard to let me replace the old antenna and drop to 100KW. A smaller antenna and more raw power would have done the station much better. They would have lost a few cows out in Arkansas, but actually gained building penetration in Memphis. It got nixed all the way up the chain so they still could say "Three hundred thousand watts"

I haven't heard about the new antenna.

Thier next major move should be the day after TV5 turns off the analog signal. Take the TV antenna down, put up the best possible FM antenna on the TV pole, and gain a few hundred feet in height.

<P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P>
 
> Not so fast. Low numbers for the prez does NOT mean the
> country is shifting left. I'm not all enamored of some of
> Bush's decisions lately, but that doesn't mean I'm running
> for Hillaryland.

No way I would run for "Hillaryland" either. However, there is a leftward movement happening, like it or not. When Bill O "Lielly", (O'Rielly)Registered Republican since 1994, and employee of Fox "News" says that unless Bush gets gas prices down, he's guaranteeing that Hillary will win in 2008, that suggests a shift. That kind of a shift, by default is good for AA, on a national level. Where Air America will have to worry, is when Democrats run things again, a lot less fun material to work with.
>
> My appraisal of 680 was based on listening and the fact that
> the majority of those who would identify themsleves as
> 'liberal' are black, and WDIA superserves them as does WLOK.

I have never heard about "Downing Street" Memo on WDIA. Liberal talk is not the format at WDIA, or WLOK. It may be an element of each, but not dedicated, and certainly not superserved. Assuming your scientific analysis of the Democratic Party's base here in Memphis is correct, you might have a point.

Except that, when you actually venture out of Cordova, Germantown, Millington, etc., There are, white democrats, quite a few, actually. And more are joining the ranks daily... I personally think that Bush is converting more to BLUE, than the party itself ever could.


>That said, hiring Leon was genius and may put a dent in that.

Leon will be an interesting element to the station, and already is. He has the potential to attract anyone that has an IQ over 80, white or black. If they ever give him that local show, that's when it will be interesting.
>
> One year from now, let's look at Easy 680's highest numbers
> in its target (old folks), and see if WWTQ has beaten that
> in 25-54.
>
> If so, the beer's on me.

You sir, have a bet.
>
> If WWTQ beats WREC, the steak's on me as well.

I was born at night, but not last night... CFKane
 
Re: The Tigers, FM100, 300k and you.

> Thier next major move should be the day after TV5 turns off
> the analog signal. Take the TV antenna down, put up the best
> possible FM antenna on the TV pole, and gain a few hundred
> feet in height.

I agree that's the best move, but whether it would happen is up for discussion.

FM100, having that grandfathered power, got the luxury of not having to move above 300m in order to maintain full-C status. I have been told -- although I have no independent conformation of this -- that the FCC will allow NO CHANGES to the plant without dropping to 100kw ERP (you might have some information on this I don't have). So, it would seem, going up the tower would require a drop to 100kw.

This brings up another interesting issue. If that were to happen, the best they could protect/maintain is a CØ. That tower ain't high enough to get above the minimum height to protect full-C status. That, in itself, isn't a big deal -- the other guys in town are mainly C1s anyway, but would the downgrade might allow a station like WWTN/Manchester to move further west; a few miles would help them immensely. If so, that might clog up the channel a bit. Surprisingly, 99.7 is a bit tight (to the east and south), which occasionally impacts the signal out in the fringes.

Of course, this is all wild speculation, basically irrelevant, and really esoteric stuff.

BTW, 'Saur, I have often wondered... how much power does FM100 have to send up the tower to make the 300kw ERP? That must be a wacky antenna to have an additional 4 dbs of gain in one plane. Let me get out that ARRL antenna book and figure this out...

DE
 
> In reply to:It beats sitting around waiting for someone to
> blow the lid on the real scandal that surfaced last week. I
> have had a top 10 list waiting for that one to get posted.
>
>
> I am dying to take a shot at this one. But I'll sit and
> wait.
>
Somebody has to confirm or deny the rumor. I would but I know nothing more than what CFKane told me. Anybody got the inside track?
 
Re: The Tigers, FM100, 300k and you.

It's been a few years since I ran that beast. Let me think.... It was 29 point something Kilowatts, I think. If memory serves me we went with the 35 KW transmitters so 30's wouldn't be running wide open.

(on second thought, maybe they are 30 KW and DO run wide open. A mind is a terrible thing...)

Anyway, the 6-inch rigid line helps greatly with keeping the line loss low, which is a good thing since there is over 1000 feet of transmission line owing to the building being so far from the tower. The antenna is simply designed for something other than a 1:1 power split in the H and V planes. One can't see anything special about the WMC antenna, but if it was the roto-tiller design, you would notice that the bays looked 'mashed', with the elements being closer together in the horizontal plane. It is simply a different power ratio between planes.

Someone told me the rule has been change such that it would allow 100 to keep the 300 KW output. What the additional height and transmission line, would that put strain on the transmitters and utility bill? I still think it's a good idea, but there would have to be a bit of engineering and economics research done.

<P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by radiosaur on 07/07/05 06:01 PM.</FONT></P>
 
>
> Somebody has to confirm or deny the rumor. I would but I
> know nothing more than what CFKane told me. Anybody got the
> inside track?
>

If we're on the same page, then I had it independently confirmed over the weekend, but I think dragging that kind of stuff out in the street is beneath this board.
<P ID="signature">______________
Never hold a cat and a dustbuster at the same time.</P>
 
Can't confirm or deny, but...

Just received more confirmation, from yet another source. We'll all know something by the 26th. I sure as hell, won't be the one breaking the story, either. Just heard it from so many places, I am surprised I haven't seen word one about it here. I guess tower lights, and signal strength continues to dominate the subject matter for now. Maybe a scandalous "overmodulation" will break soon. Then we can chime in. CFKane

> If we're on the same page, then I had it independently
> confirmed over the weekend, but I think dragging that kind
> of stuff out in the street is beneath this board.
>
 
Re: Can't confirm or deny, but...

Beneath the board. As many personal attacks that people throw around here I would have though that right up a lot of you guys alley. "Overmodulation", now thats funny, I don''t care who you are.


> Just received more confirmation, from yet another source.
> We'll all know something by the 26th. I sure as hell, won't
> be the one breaking the story, either. Just heard it from
> so many places, I am surprised I haven't seen word one about
> it here. I guess tower lights, and signal strength
> continues to dominate the subject matter for now. Maybe a
> scandalous "overmodulation" will break soon. Then we can
> chime in. CFKane
>
> > If we're on the same page, then I had it independently
> > confirmed over the weekend, but I think dragging that kind
>
> > of stuff out in the street is beneath this board.
> >
>
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom