Lexington, KY (December 7, 1981)

[KD4YQR]

Okay, here's what I've gotten done so far, with data from Broadcasting Yearbook, 1975 through 1983. There were changes after that, but I stopped here, not least because I wanted to find the year that Franklin County finally flipped to the Lexington market. It is sorted by alphabetical order as to where the counties finally ended up by then. A steady trickle of counties into the Lexington market is readily apparent.

One interesting thing I found, Perry County actually flipped back to the Bristol (Tri-Cities) market for a couple of years.

I hope to complete the table in coming days. I only selected the counties that fell into a certain band to the east and west of Lexington, and generally didn't bother with the counties to the north and northeast. Those counties' markets are pretty set in stone, though an exception would be Lewis County, which actually flipped to Cincinnati for a couple of years. I seem to recall Robertson County flipping to Lexington one year, but obviously it was after 1983.

I hope I got all of this accurate, but that's a lot of data. This is the area on which I focused:

View attachment 8595

Happy reading

(continued, I'm having to cut this up into pieces, as I discovered when I tried to post)

Nice! Thank you for your research! Quite interesting.
My county was in the Louisville DMA until 1978.
Again due to legacy VHFs 3 & 11.

 

[KD4YQR]

Satellite is not allowed to carry a different DMA’s station unless the market in question has NO network licensed to the DMA. As example my market (Mankato, MN) we get ABC from Minneapolis (KSTP) as Mankato only has CBS, NBC and FOX. The key point is Satellite rules are way different than cable. Satellite is just stations assigned to the DMA. Before Gray launched NBC a few years ago satellite subs got KARE Minneapolis. When KMNF-LD NBC launched satellite had to remove KARE and add KMNF-LD in its place. (There are like 4 examples of Directv where you can get two markets but they are very few and one took a legal take…the 2 southern counties of Vermont)
As to the first part it probably goes by zip code within the DMA as to who gets WYMT.
Directv does NOT carry WYMT

I just did two Google searches for "WYMT on Dish Network".
One said "yes" they can be found on Channel 57.
The other said "No, WYMT is not on Dish Network".

So I'm confused. (Which is easy at my age, these days)

Other Google searches revealed nothing.

Dish Network and Direct TV still receive locals OTA (instead of fiber) and both of the receive/ uplink sites are in Lexington proper, making it hard to snag WYMT OTA.

I'm not familiar enough with the streaming services to know if WYMT is carried on them.

On another note, Wikipedia shows there is no longer a CP for WYMT to move to UHF 20. It still shows VHF 12 at a 50 kw power level . Maybe someone wised up.

 

[Mr Tony]

I just did two Google searches for "WYMT on Dish Network".
One said "yes" they can be found on Channel 57.
The other said "No, WYMT is not on Dish Network".

So I'm confused. (Which is easy at my age, these days)

Dish carries it on channel 12 not 57.
Directv does not carry it

I'm not familiar enough with the streaming services to know if WYMT is carried on them.

Looking up YouTube tv it does show both CBS affiliates in Hazard.

On another note, Wikipedia shows there is no longer a CP for WYMT to move to UHF 20. It still shows VHF 12 at a 50 kw power level . Maybe someone wised up.

It was due to the date to upgrade to uhf in mid February so Gray requested to drop that in a few markets. If they hadn’t upgraded by the date required by FCC they would have to sign off. That’s why it shows them staying on channel 12.

 

[IM42A]

Nice! Thank you for your research! Quite interesting.
My county was in the Louisville DMA until 1978.
Again due to legacy VHFs 3 & 11.

I rattled it off in about 45 minutes, then I had to take a break. I got on a roll, and beyond a certain point, was able to copy columns and check to see if any counties changed. I hope to do more in the next few days. This is something I'd been meaning to work on. (My mother, rest her soul, told me more than once that she wished I could have gone to Lexington and worked at WKYT after I got out of school.)

I find it a very interesting topic, how a small market with only two UHF stations, in a time when UHF was not the best thing to be, grew into this behemoth due to various technical, economic, and demographic developments. They'd blow that market out all the way to the Ohio, West Virginia, Virginia, and Tennessee borders if they could.

And as to WYMT, they have not-negligible viewership in adjacent West Virginia, Virginia, and Tennessee, indeed, for the counties right across the line in Virginia, they're basically a local station. They've done an excellent job with WYMT.

 

[IM42A]

I just did two Google searches for "WYMT on Dish Network".
One said "yes" they can be found on Channel 57.
The other said "No, WYMT is not on Dish Network".

So I'm confused. (Which is easy at my age, these days)

Other Google searches revealed nothing.

Dish Network and Direct TV still receive locals OTA (instead of fiber) and both of the receive/ uplink sites are in Lexington proper, making it hard to snag WYMT OTA.

I'm not familiar enough with the streaming services to know if WYMT is carried on them.

On another note, Wikipedia shows there is no longer a CP for WYMT to move to UHF 20. It still shows VHF 12 at a 50 kw power level . Maybe someone wised up.

I checked a website, with some kind of connection to Dish Network, that prompts you to put in a ZIP code. When you put in the ZIP code for Hazard, it shows both WKYT and WYMT. When you put in Lexington, it only shows WKYT. They did something with "deletion counties", carving out a portion of the Lexington market and permitting only those counties to get WYMT via satellite, but I can't find the link. I know I read that some time back.

 

[KD4YQR]

Dish carries it on channel 12 not 57.
Directv does not carry it
View attachment 8597


Looking up YouTube tv it does show both CBS affiliates in Hazard.


It was due to the date to upgrade to uhf in mid February so Gray requested to drop that in a few markets. If they hadn’t upgraded by the date required by FCC they would have to sign off. That’s why it shows them staying on channel 12.

Well, that answers my question then. Thanks

 

[Mr Tony]

And as to WYMT, they have not-negligible viewership in adjacent West Virginia, Virginia, and Tennessee, indeed, for the counties right across the line in Virginia, they're basically a local station. They've done an excellent job with WYMT.

I don’t get the big deal about WYMT NOT being carried outside of the FCC market. If you want to see the news the app is available to view it. I have it on the Roku to view news. I get some areas have horrible internet but you don’t need much speed to view the news. Sounds like someone is still living back in 2009.

 

[IM42A]

I don’t get the big deal about WYMT NOT being carried outside of the FCC market. If you want to see the news the app is available to view it. I have it on the Roku to view news. I get some areas have horrible internet but you don’t need much speed to view the news. Sounds like someone is still living back in 2009.

Actually, in eastern Kentucky, that would be about right. There are a lot of elderly people, a lot of poor people, and people who are both. For many of them, no, it wouldn't be top-of-mind to use streaming video, they would want just to watch "regular TV". You just turn it on, and there it is. Ease of use. That's one reason that people subscribe to "local into local", unless they're in a reception hole, yes, they could get a set of rabbit ears, or buy an antenna, and flip back and forth between satellite and OTA TV, but that's a pain, extra hoops to jump through. It's easier to have it all there in one interface.

I have Roku, and here in South Carolina, I regularly watch "news from back home" on WSAZ, WKYT, and WYMT, but I know how to use it and how to navigate the menu. For my mother, I had to tune it and tell her (she was legally blind), "hey, here's channel 3, want to watch the news?". She wouldn't have had the slightest idea how to do that.

 

[IM42A]

Satellite is not allowed to carry a different DMA’s station unless the market in question has NO network licensed to the DMA.

But what about orphan counties? Granted, there are many hoops to be jumped through, but they did it in Monongalia and Preston counties in West Virginia, in the Pittsburgh market but Clarksburg stations were added to provide in-state programming.

I seem to recall that this was offered as an option in eastern Kentucky, but it had to be WKYT and not WYMT. Except for the far northeastern corner of Kentucky (Boyd, Greenup, Carter, and Lewis counties), WYMT would be the preferred choice for local in-state news and so on. Anyplace north of I-64 has absolutely no connection, economic or cultural, to Hazard and the Big Sandy valley.

 

[Mr Tony]

But what about orphan counties? Granted, there are many hoops to be jumped through, but they did it in Monongalia and Preston counties in West Virginia, in the Pittsburgh market but Clarksburg stations were added to provide in-state programming.

That example above was a law that was passed. Otherwise you’re mainly SOL. Great example is Gogebic, Michigan (the far north western county). They are designated to the Duluth, Minnesota market by DMA (Wisconsin is between them). Satellite subs only get Duluth per FCC rules. Cable does add WLUC (NBC) and WNMU (PBS) but that’s all. WNMU is in place of Duluths WDSE PBS.
Heck KQDS Fox Duluth has a translator in Ironwood.
Orphan counties on satellite are SOL.

I seem to recall that this was offered as an option in eastern Kentucky, but it had to be WKYT and not WYMT. Except for the far northeastern corner of Kentucky (Boyd, Greenup, Carter, and Lewis counties), WYMT would be the preferred choice for local in-state news and so on. Anyplace north of I-64 has absolutely no connection, economic or cultural, to Hazard and the Big Sandy valley.

Again cable has different rules than satellite. Cable has rules from the 60s or 70s they can go by. Satellite rules is from mid 2000s. Mankato (where I am) satellite is Mankato locals + KSTP Minneapolis for ABC. Cable gives subs Mankato locals + CBS, ABC, PBS, FOX and My Network from Minneapolis due to Mankato only having just CBS until 2007. Cable also got NBC until Mankato got a local NBC and cable replaced KARE with KMNF-LD. Cable even carries KAAL ABC and KSMQ PBS from Rochester, MN since years ago it was a significantly viewed station ( the tower was much closer to Mankato then now)

 

[NoWayNoCC]

I thought counties were assigned to TV markets based on "preponderance" of viewing. So if there's a county where most people watched a Hazard station, Hazard should have its own market.

 

[IM42A]

I thought counties were assigned to TV markets based on "preponderance" of viewing. So if there's a county where most people watched a Hazard station, Hazard should have its own market.

But that would be just one station, and people would be watching programs on different channels.

It would be very difficult to establish a single-station market anymore. These came into being in years past, when you had stations that had existed sometimes from when TV first came to these areas, and that were usually just a bit too far afield of another market's stations for easy reception. Another example would be where there was a hodgepodge of stations from different cities, and the home station actually could claim a preponderance of viewing.

Actually, at one point, IIRC Hazard met the criteria for an ADI (this per the 1985 BCYB), but WYMT chose for Hazard not to become an ADI. (Markets were referred to at the time as ADIs, "areas of dominant influence".) This was after Kentucky Central Life (owners of WKYT) bought the station, so they probably nixed it, in that this would have reduced the size of the Lexington market, which would not have been good for WKYT or anyone else. If it had become its own market, when satellite delivery came alone and infill stations would have been needed to furnish all networks, it's entirely possible that the powers that be might have mandated stations from the Tri-Cities or even Charleston-Huntington instead (not entirely clear how that works, or who makes those decisions). That wouldn't have been good for the Lexington stations either.

 

[ftballfan]

I now live in Colorado, and another goofy DMA is Denver — NO WAY any Denver signals penetrate the far western reaches of that DMA, and stations’ owned translators are on the eastern side of the state. However, municipal translators probably account for some of the western-most counties. But still ….

View attachment 8592

Denver is a similar example to Lexington in the ADI/DMA growing over the years. In 1970 (the first year ADI's were included in BCYB):
Rio Blanco County was in the Salt Lake City ADI
Gunnison, Lincoln, Mineral, and Prowers counties were in the Colorado Springs-Pueblo ADI
Delta, Hinsdale, Ouray, Pitkin, San Juan, and San Miguel counties were in the Grand Junction ADI (a one-station market at the time)
Alamosa, Archuleta, Conejos, Costilla, Dolores, Rio Grande, and Saguache counties were in the Albuquerque ADI
Cheyenne and Kit Carson counties were in the Wichita-Hutchinson ADI
Logan, Phillips, Sedgwick, Washington, and Yuma counties were in the Cheyenne ADI (also a one-station market; the one station had a full-power semi-satellite in Sterling (Logan County))

 

[IM42A]

Denver is a similar example to Lexington in the ADI/DMA growing over the years. In 1970 (the first year ADI's were included in BCYB):
Rio Blanco County was in the Salt Lake City ADI
Gunnison, Lincoln, Mineral, and Prowers counties were in the Colorado Springs-Pueblo ADI
Delta, Hinsdale, Ouray, Pitkin, San Juan, and San Miguel counties were in the Grand Junction ADI (a one-station market at the time)
Alamosa, Archuleta, Conejos, Costilla, Dolores, Rio Grande, and Saguache counties were in the Albuquerque ADI
Cheyenne and Kit Carson counties were in the Wichita-Hutchinson ADI
Logan, Phillips, Sedgwick, Washington, and Yuma counties were in the Cheyenne ADI (also a one-station market; the one station had a full-power semi-satellite in Sterling (Logan County))

For reasons of it being from a large city with several stations, and in-state on top of that, people in Colorado probably tend to prefer Denver, unless they live close enough to the Colorado Springs-Pueblo area to want to get local news and other programming from there. Far southwestern Colorado is in the odd situation of having satellites of Albuquerque stations fairly close by (one in Durango and another in Farmington NM), they probably wouldn't mind those being satellites of Denver stations, but the ABQ stations already own them and wouldn't be keen to lose their last two counties in Colorado. Likewise, folks in and around Grand Junction create a demand for local programming there (though they, too, would probably prefer to get Denver as well as GJ). KREX in Grand Junction once had three satellites (KREY Montrose, KREG Glenwood Springs, and KREZ Durango), but sold KREZ to Lee Enterprises (owners of KRQE, interesting calls, "kerky") in 1995 and became a satellite of KRQE. KREY still exists as a satellite of KREX, but KREG was sold to Weigel and is now MeTV Denver.

I was in Glenwood Springs in 1985 and saw a short cut-in, five minutes or so, of KREY news on KREX, it was just a reporter sitting at a desk in front of a KREY logo on the wall. KOBF Farmington had a similar arrangement, though it is now a straight passthrough of KOB with AFAIK no local origination.

 

[ftballfan]

For reasons of it being from a large city with several stations, and in-state on top of that, people in Colorado probably tend to prefer Denver, unless they live close enough to the Colorado Springs-Pueblo area to want to get local news and other programming from there. Far southwestern Colorado is in the odd situation of having satellites of Albuquerque stations fairly close by (one in Durango and another in Farmington NM), they probably wouldn't mind those being satellites of Denver stations, but the ABQ stations already own them and wouldn't be keen to lose their last two counties in Colorado. Likewise, folks in and around Grand Junction create a demand for local programming there (though they, too, would probably prefer to get Denver as well as GJ). KREX in Grand Junction once had three satellites (KREY Montrose, KREG Glenwood Springs, and KREZ Durango), but sold KREZ to Lee Enterprises (owners of KRQE, interesting calls, "kerky") in 1995 and became a satellite of KRQE. KREY still exists as a satellite of KREX, but KREG was sold to Weigel and is now MeTV Denver.
I was in Glenwood Springs in 1985 and saw a short cut-in, five minutes or so, of KREY news on KREX, it was just a reporter sitting at a desk in front of a KREY logo on the wall. KOBF Farmington had a similar arrangement, though it is now a straight passthrough of KOB with AFAIK no local origination.

Delta, which is between Grand Junction and Montrose, gets both Denver and Grand Junction stations on cable (it's in the Denver DMA, but most of the Denver stations likely don't care about GJ being available there as it's insignificant to the Denver market's population and rank)

 

[IM42A]

Delta, which is between Grand Junction and Montrose, gets both Denver and Grand Junction stations on cable (it's in the Denver DMA, but most of the Denver stations likely don't care about GJ being available there as it's insignificant to the Denver market's population and rank)

Denver could lose a small county or two and never miss it, moreover, even with getting Denver stations, locals in Delta probably don't mind getting news with more of an emphasis upon their region. I see from TVTV.com (yes, I know, not 100% reliable WRT cable lineups) that Glenwood Springs, with which I am more familiar, doesn't get anything from GJ at all anymore, and GJ cable doesn't carry any Denver stations (likely kept off cable to ensure that local viewers watch network programming on GJ stations and only GJ stations).

IIRC, when I was last in Glenwood Springs around 2000, they got both KREG (satellite of KREX) and KJCT on cable. I don't recall KKCO. This business of KJCT first having been a full-power station, then selling it to KGBY (now KLML), then becoming an LPTV using the KJCT calls and retaining PSIP channel 8, reminds me of a mash-up of the WCIV/WGWG and WRDW/WAGT situations.

 

[IM42A]

I'm thinking that, at this point, we might need to create a thread under "Classic TV" (or maybe "Retro Cable Lineups"?) for market swaps and cable/satellite coverage in general. The last four posts possibly merit their own thread.

 

[IM42A]

I've started this thread to carry on discussions such as this one:

https://radiodiscussions.com/thread...ges-cable-satellite-carriage-and-more.775284/

 

[IM42A]

Actually I placed the thread in the National TV subforum, seemed the most logical place for it, if that's an issue, I'm sure the moderators will let me know, and I'll follow their lead.

It's already starting to get posts.

 

[KD4YQR]

I've started this thread to carry on discussions such as this one:

https://radiodiscussions.com/thread...ges-cable-satellite-carriage-and-more.775284/

We've kind of veered off topic here but the mods have been understanding about it. It's been a fun and interesting discussion