Lites out

[ratnob]

Interesting to note that Lite 106.7 has dropped the name "Lite". Is this a sign that Fresh 102.7's assault on its playlist and "talky DJs" is having an effect? Fresh does, of course have programming legend Gary Berkowitz behind it.

 

[davideduardo]

Interesting to note that Lite 106.7 has dropped the name "Lite". Is this a sign that Fresh 102.7's assault on its playlist and "talky DJs" is having an effect? Fresh does, of course have programming legend Gary Berkowitz behind it.

It is a sign that the PPM is coming in 5 months and that most of the diary entries are already for the dial position.

 

[regionear]

All hail...the all knowing David Eudaro everyone

 

[neo11]

Interesting to note that Lite 106.7 has dropped the name "Lite". Is this a sign that Fresh 102.7's assault on its playlist and "talky DJs" is having an effect? Fresh does, of course have programming legend Gary Berkowitz behind it.

It is a sign that the PPM is coming in 5 months and that most of the diary entries are already for the dial position.

And if for so many years, the name "Lite FM" didn't stop people from tuning into the station and remembering the dial position, then what is the point of getting rid of the established brand name all of a sudden, even with the PPM?

 

[cawasinnj]

And if for so many years, the name "Lite FM" didn't stop people from tuning into the station and remembering the dial position, then what is the point of getting rid of the established brand name all of a sudden, even with the PPM?

Maybe the younger people who wouldn't even try the station because the outdated slogan made it sound uncool will try it now?

The name has been wrong for many years. Now that PPM is coming it won't matter that much what people call it. They can safely change the name and not suffer because people can't remember the new name they have on file with Arbitron.

 

[neo11]

And if for so many years, the name "Lite FM" didn't stop people from tuning into the station and remembering the dial position, then what is the point of getting rid of the established brand name all of a sudden, even with the PPM?

Maybe the younger people who wouldn't even try the station because the outdated slogan made it sound uncool will try it now?

The name has been wrong for many years. Now that PPM is coming it won't matter that much what people call it. They can safely change the name and not suffer because people can't remember the new name they have on file with Arbitron.

But you're contradicting yourself here. People not remembering the name, old or new, shouldn't matter, if most people (I believe David Eduardo posted a figure of 92%) are already indicating the dial position, not the name, in their diaries.

Has the name really been wrong for so many years? Lite has been consistently #1 in ratings and billing. The advertisers wouldn't be spending the money if they weren't getting the audience they wanted (see CBS-FM). The "Lite" name doesn't seem to have driven away those listeners.

Let's be real here for a moment...Lite FM is a station that one can't avoid hearing in the NYC area...stores, offices, you name it. Lite FM's music has also been skewing younger and younger and a lot of their music isn't "lite", even if they've been arguably the most office-friendly station all these years. If a listener likes the music the station is airing, I don't think it really matters whether the station is named "Lite" or not. One could use that as an argument to ditch the name, but it could also be used as an argument to keep it, because it is such an established brand and because it has not hurt the station.

 

[cawasinnj]

I'm not contradicting myself. My point about people remembering or not remembering the name has to do with getting proper Arbitron credit. That doesn't matter now. For the time being the air staff is still occasionally using the Lite name so they can still use that for the diaries that will be read between now and the fall. Once the PPM is fully rolled out, I'll bet the name will be retired permanently.

My point about the desirability of distancing yourself from the Lite name is that the thinking is young hip people wouldn't be caught dead with a station called Lite on the radio. (Whether that's right or wrong is another matter entirely.) Those young desirable demos DO know the station as Lite and (supposedly) reject the idea of listening as a result, even if they would like it. By making the name less inconsistent with the actual format, they might broaden its appeal. The people who already listen aren't going to care if the name changes, but those who don't listen might.

Besides it just makes sense to have the station name actually match the air product.

 

[username23]

yes, and you want people to remember the 106.7 so that they have a reference of where to listen on the dial, and what to write down in the arbitron rating.

 

[davideduardo]

All hail...the all knowing David Eudaro everyone

Very simply, Matt, all you have to do is look at the data:

1. PPM starts in October, and the trial panel is already running.
2. PPM does not measure "memorability" of positioners, names and slogans.
3. 92% of the listeners of WLTW, in the last book, wrote in the frequency.

So, for practical purposes, listeners already called the station by its dial position, and since the name is ot registered by PPM, it seems like a logical conclusion that "freqeuncy is more important than name in the PPM."

 

[neo11]

OK, so you can call the station "106.7 Lite FM." There's your dial position right there. I still do not buy the argument younger people wouldn't be caught dead listening to the station. Both diaries and PPM measure more than just that. If they work in an office that has Lite FM on, then that should be part of what they are recording in their diaries and certainly will be recorded by the PPM devices. It doesn't matter whether the name is Lite FM or anything else.

I can't wait to see other stations get rid of their names, positioners and slogans. We'll be left with New York's 100.3, New York's 95.5, New York's 97.1 and so on. In all cases, the name not saying anything about the station other than it's from (gasp!) New York!

 

[mostb1]

This isn't just happening in New York. It's a mandate at Clear Channel. All Clear Channel stations are dropping or slimming down on positioning statements, slogans, logos etc.. Other examples (all from Los Angeles) are KBIG in will soon just be 104.3, Hot 92 Jamz will just be Hot 92.3 and KIIS-FM will have a new logo with a small KIIS-FM and a huge 102.7.

The is not only in response to the PPM but also a reaction and solution to making all their stations sound and feel more like an IPOD.

So, no, it isn't a reaction directly to any in-town competition as this is a mandate from headquaters in San Antonio to all CCU stations.

 

[davideduardo]

This isn't just happening in New York. It's a mandate at Clear Channel. All Clear Channel stations are dropping or slimming down on positioning statements, slogans, logos etc.. Other examples (all from Los Angeles) are KBIG in will soon just be 104.3, Hot 92 Jamz will just be Hot 92.3 and KIIS-FM will have a new logo with a small KIIS-FM and a huge 102.7.

The is not only in response to the PPM but also a reaction and solution to making all their stations sound and feel more like an IPOD.

So, no, it isn't a reaction directly to any in-town competition as this is a mandate from headquaters in San Antonio to all CCU stations.

Sounds like a smart and researched move...

 

[mostb1]

This isn't just happening in New York. It's a mandate at Clear Channel. All Clear Channel stations are dropping or slimming down on positioning statements, slogans, logos etc.. Other examples (all from Los Angeles) are KBIG in will soon just be 104.3, Hot 92 Jamz will just be Hot 92.3 and KIIS-FM will have a new logo with a small KIIS-FM and a huge 102.7.

The is not only in response to the PPM but also a reaction and solution to making all their stations sound and feel more like an IPOD.

So, no, it isn't a reaction directly to any in-town competition as this is a mandate from headquaters in San Antonio to all CCU stations.

Sounds like a smart and researched move...

Sounds like something dumb that will only help destroy radio even faster. We all know about radio research. It's something that is driving people to ipods and the internet...

I wouldn't be trying to sound like an ipod, I'd do exactly the opposite to "stand out" in the diversified world of entertainment.

 

[neo11]

This isn't just happening in New York. It's a mandate at Clear Channel. All Clear Channel stations are dropping or slimming down on positioning statements, slogans, logos etc.. Other examples (all from Los Angeles) are KBIG in will soon just be 104.3, Hot 92 Jamz will just be Hot 92.3 and KIIS-FM will have a new logo with a small KIIS-FM and a huge 102.7.

The is not only in response to the PPM but also a reaction and solution to making all their stations sound and feel more like an IPOD.

So, no, it isn't a reaction directly to any in-town competition as this is a mandate from headquaters in San Antonio to all CCU stations.

Sounds like a smart and researched move...

Sounds like something dumb that will only help destroy radio even faster. We all know about radio research. It's something that is driving people to ipods and the internet...

I wouldn't be trying to sound like an ipod, I'd do exactly the opposite to "stand out" in the diversified world of entertainment.

Exactly. There seems to be a culture prevalent in the radio industry where research and consulting can do no wrong. And yet, tell me one move where radio has become more "Ipod-like" and has really been successful. The Jacks, as a whole, are getting mediocre ratings. There was that channelcasting experiment out of Long Island which was a miserable failure.

Listeners may write down the dial position in their diaries for the most part, but the way they get to that dial position is by knowing what's on that station. Branding helps in that regard. New York's 106.7 doesn't tell me anything about what that station airs. Is it polka? Is it reggae? Is it yodeling? I don't know. And if the PPM devices are going to pick up the station regardless, I would argue that branding becomes even more important than ever, because you want your station to have a clear identity and recognition among potential listeners.

It seems to me that commercial radio is in a state where instead of trying to attract new listeners and the listeners they have lost to other mediums, it's desperately scratching and clawing to keep its existing base. The problem is, it's trying to do so using the same type of programming which has sent so many listeners away from commercial radio in recent years. Now it's even spreading to stations that are still very successful, like Lite FM.

 

[cawasinnj]

OK, so you can call the station "106.7 Lite FM." There's your dial position right there. I still do not buy the argument younger people wouldn't be caught dead listening to the station. Both diaries and PPM measure more than just that. If they work in an office that has Lite FM on, then that should be part of what they are recording in their diaries and certainly will be recorded by the PPM devices. It doesn't matter whether the name is Lite FM or anything else.

I can't wait to see other stations get rid of their names, positioners and slogans. We'll be left with New York's 100.3, New York's 95.5, New York's 97.1 and so on. In all cases, the name not saying anything about the station other than it's from (gasp!) New York!

I don't buy it either. To mangle an old cliche, those who can do, those who can't consult. I think it's a load of BS, but the pointy haired bosses out there are lemmings and will jump right off the cliff if the consultants tell them to.

 

[davideduardo]

Exactly. There seems to be a culture prevalent in the radio industry where research and consulting can do no wrong. And yet, tell me one move where radio has become more "Ipod-like" and has really been successful.

Talking to listeners, which is all research is about, is inherently the correct thing to do. The opposite is to say, "I know what the people want" which is both impossible and arrogant.

To remove the needless "we're great" liners and long promos is a good idea. To sound like an iPod takes away the fundamental difference between good radio and an iPod... the ability to either entertain with talent or to create a mood. IPods have no talent. And one on shuffle can not create a mood such as a well programmed hour of music can.

But the inane liners and promos intended to create recall in the diary method are not part of good radio under the PPM. A friend has practiced for several decades his belief that "there is no such thing as a one minute promo." Most things talked about on the radio are self-serving to the station, but not to the listener who is drilled with incessant reminders of how great a station is; why stations do not spend more time emphasizing listener benefits rather than posturing is beyond me.

Sure, there is bad research. It comes in all forms, but is mostly caused by a failure to define objectives, which is a sign of incompetence at the station level, not at the research company. Similarly, there are bad consultants... but would you have critical surgery without a second opinion? Specialists are the consultants of the medical profession, just as auditors are the consultants of the accounting profession...

 

[mostb1]

Exactly. There seems to be a culture prevalent in the radio industry where research and consulting can do no wrong. And yet, tell me one move where radio has become more "Ipod-like" and has really been successful.

Talking to listeners, which is all research is about, is inherently the correct thing to do. The opposite is to say, "I know what the people want" which is both impossible and arrogant.

To remove the needless "we're great" liners and long promos is a good idea. To sound like an iPod takes away the fundamental difference between good radio and an iPod... the ability to either entertain with talent or to create a mood. IPods have no talent. And one on shuffle can not create a mood such as a well programmed hour of music can.

But the inane liners and promos intended to create recall in the diary method are not part of good radio under the PPM. A friend has practiced for several decades his belief that "there is no such thing as a one minute promo." Most things talked about on the radio are self-serving to the station, but not to the listener who is drilled with incessant reminders of how great a station is; why stations do not spend more time emphasizing listener benefits rather than posturing is beyond me.

Sure, there is bad research. It comes in all forms, but is mostly caused by a failure to define objectives, which is a sign of incompetence at the station level, not at the research company. Similarly, there are bad consultants... but would you have critical surgery without a second opinion? Specialists are the consultants of the medical profession, just as auditors are the consultants of the accounting profession...

Although I will agree about the LONG liners, promos, imaging and have been vocal on the L.A. board about it for a long time, I don't see where some of the other mandates Clear Channel has decided upon are positive such as a maximum of 7 seconds to talk over an intro, songs must now fade out before you hit the next element, multiple segues per hour, playing "adlets" over song intros....to name a few.

If research is so good please explain the "Movin" format? That's one highly researched format by top consultants and programmers that is a total failure.

Too many times these days, I see research basically define the station and its music with little or no "gut" programming allowed. Programmers have become little more than paper pushers and handle only small internal matters (although there are many p.d.'s in major markets who are not qualified to program either). There is little or no creativity on the on-air side developed or allowed either. When the "attitude" of a Jack station has become the most creative sounding station in town, you know radio is in bad shape. Back to my ipod and XM...

 

[davideduardo]

If research is so good please explain the "Movin" format? That's one highly researched format by top consultants and programmers that is a total failure.

Research only can tell you what people do, like, listen to, consume, etc. at the moment. It can not perform the functions of Miss Cleo.

One of the most research driven companies around, P&G, uses research from product creation all the way to test marketing. Still, a significant percentage of new P&G products do not either make it into general distribution or fail. Research, in such cases, decreases the failure rate, but does not eliminate it.

 

[neo11]

Research, however, seems to be telling radio stations how to attempt to retain the listeners they already have. It does not seem to be doing much of a good job promoting compelling radio programming that will bring back listeners who have abandoned terrestrial radio.

And as far as endless liners, promos, and chest-pounding, yes, you're right, it is a good idea. But since the topic of this thread is specifically the changes at Lite FM, it should be noted that you never heard any sort of chest-thumping of that sort from that station, despite their success.

 

[ratnob]

I still believe that a well-crafted sung jingle can do a fantastic job at identifying the station memorably and maintaining the flow and pace of the station. Some people underestimate them.

Jon Wolfert says it all on the JAM website:

http://www.jingles.com/jam/radioids/whyuse.html