Live Talk - Live Sports?

[jeffdfw]

Soccer!?! That is just a little game...

 

[SmokeRing]

KVIL and KLUV had teh Cowboys, and I have it on good authority that there was NO recycling of listeners. People tuned in for the games (if they couldn't get to a TV) and come end of the game they'd switch back to their regular station. Most game listeners are male, KVIL got NO uptick, like NONE in men numbers from the game.

Your good authority is completely wrong. During the Cowboys/KVIL years, KVIL was number one in 25-54 people book after book after book. KVIL also put together the highest single year for billing in Dallas radio history during those days. Of course the Cowboys were winning Super Bowls back then too.

Around 1996 or 97, KVIL paid for a listener perceptual to be done, and upwards of 70 percent of KVIL's women listeners watched at least one Cowboys game a year. None of the other categories broke 40 percent (like, do you eat at McDonalds, or shop at Walmart, or Dillards, etc). Most were 20 percent or below.

 

[EbolaMonkey]

I think if you re-read that, you'll see that it says 'even though they NOW have the Cowboys, the #1 sports station didn't have live sports" etc. In other words, until (last year? 2 years ago?) the ticket (the #1 sports station) never had a 'franchise' sports team. So it doesn't take a sports franchise to be the sports leader.

In the last couple of years I've heard them brag on the air that they've had their highest ratings in the history of the station. Maybe the Cowboys are part of that.

When you're number one, all you can do is increase your lead.

 

[little1]

Your good authority is completely wrong. During the Cowboys/KVIL years, KVIL was number one in 25-54 people book after book after book. KVIL also put together the highest single year for billing in Dallas radio history during those days. Of course the Cowboys were winning Super Bowls back then too.

Around 1996 or 97, KVIL paid for a listener perceptual to be done, and upwards of 70 percent of KVIL's women listeners watched at least one Cowboys game a year. None of the other categories broke 40 percent (like, do you eat at McDonalds, or shop at Walmart, or Dillards, etc). Most were 20 percent or below.

Is it wrong? KVIL was doing great before they got the Cowboys. Then continued to do well while they had the Cowboys. In other words, the Cowboys are not what made the station what it was. Might it have helped, yes, but we'd need to go back and check when they were having their glory days...
Okay, let's see going off dfw radio archives, these are 12plus obviously.
Using winter cause that's first on the page...

...Winter 89 KVIL #1 with a 8.9. Wasn't that when the Cowboys were 1-15?
Winter 1991 they drop to 2nd with a 6.9.
Winter 1992, drop to 4th with a 5.5
Winter 1993 4th with a 5.0
Winter 1994 2nd with a 5.9
Winter 1995 2nd with a 5.6

So the year they were 1 and 15, KVIL was #1 with a 8.9. The years they were winning Super Bowls they had dropped to anywhere from 2nd to 4th. (And incidentally, the Winter book looks to be in line with the rest of those years- they dip some in summer, but winter spring and fall all appear to be pretty consistent-i.e. when they 2nd, they're 2nd - as in 1993 they had a 5.0, 4.9, 4.5 and 5.4, averages close to their winter 5.0, right?)
My point is that if KVIL was doing better in the 1-15 season, how do you explain Cowboys success and KVIL's ratings weakening at the same time? unless, as I said, there's not a correlation between the 2. Because, as I said, the men who tune into listen to the game aren't the same as the women who were KVIL's target audience.


And your perceptual info doesn't dispute what I posted. If they only WATCHED at least one cowboy game a year, how many were they listening to?
Justto repeat, what I was told by someone who was there at the time and seems to be in a position to know, said that both KVIL and KLUV saw no real recycling of listeners from game days to the rest of the week.

Heck, I'm proof of that. If I couldn't be in front of a TV, I'd tune in for the game. And immediately tune out from KVIL or KLUV as soon as the game was over. I never ended up listening to them duringthe week because I'd tuned into them on Sunday. Never.

 

[SmokeRing]

Just to repeat, what I was told by someone who was there at the time and seems to be in a position to know, said that both KVIL and KLUV saw no real recycling of listeners from game days to the rest of the week.

You can believe what you want. There were factions at KVIL at the time, and you've run into someone who chose a side and has stuck by it.

Your 12+ numbers don't really tell the story. The 25-54 people numbers are the important ones for that time period. In the late 80's and early 90's, KVIL hit rock bottom (by its standard). That's when Ron Chapman swallowed some pride and brought in an outsider PD. The PD made some changes, and the Cowboys started winning. Where you see 12+ numbers going down, the 25-54 people numbers were going through the roof.

The perceptual may have read "listened," or it may have been "watched." I don't know. The larger point is that there's no reason to think there wasn't a bump in women thanks to the Cowboys. We're talking 70 percent of KVIL's women listeners. Enough to make a difference in the 25-54 people numbers. In those days, the 25-54 race was tightening up, and every additional chunk of listeners could be the bit that put you over the top.

 

[little1]

You can believe what you want. There were factions at KVIL at the time, and you've run into someone who chose a side and has stuck by it.

That may be. But I don't think this source really has a dog in this fight, so I THINK he's telling me the truth.

Your 12+ numbers don't really tell the story. The 25-54 people numbers are the important ones for that time period. In the late 80's and early 90's, KVIL hit rock bottom (by its standard). That's when Ron Chapman swallowed some pride and brought in an outsider PD. The PD made some changes, and the Cowboys started winning. Where you see 12+ numbers going down, the 25-54 people numbers were going through the roof.

If the 25-54's were going up, wouldn't the 12+ numbers tend to follow, since 25-54 is a subset of 12+? Or are you saying that while the overall audience was shrinking, the core demographic was increasing?

The perceptual may have read "listened," or it may have been "watched." I don't know. The larger point is that there's no reason to think there wasn't a bump in women thanks to the Cowboys. We're talking 70 percent of KVIL's women listeners. Enough to make a difference in the 25-54 people numbers. In those days, the 25-54 race was tightening up, and every additional chunk of listeners could be the bit that put you over the top.

And while you say there's no reason to think there wasn't a bump, couldn't it also be said that there's no reason to think there IS a bump?

Because look at KLUV's 12+ fall ratings:
'02-4.3
'03-4.0
'04-3.9
'05-3.8.
I do believe that's when they lost the Cowboys. And what happened?
'06 3.9
'07 4.0

Sure these are 12+, but isn't 25-54 a big chunk of 12 Plus? I just find it odd that you think people are flocking to these stations for the games, yet they appear to have no perceptible affect on overall ratings.

 

[SmokeRing]

I THINK he's telling me the truth.

And he may think he's telling you the truth as well. Doesn't make it so.

If the 25-54's were going up, wouldn't the 12+ numbers tend to follow, since 25-54 is a subset of 12+?

Generally, that can be true. But the math doesn't always go that way. It didn't in this specific case.

And while you say there's no reason to think there wasn't a bump, couldn't it also be said that there's no reason to think there IS a bump? Because look at KLUV's 12+ fall ratings:

We're talking about KVIL, not KLUV. Two completely different situations. Oldies stations get some of their highest cumes on the weekends. Ron Chapman felt he could turn off his AC station on Sundays and it wouldn't affect his Mon-Fri listenership. There's also a difference in listenership tendencies for KVIL in the 90's and for KLUV circa 2002. Also, both stations had direct competitors come and go during those time periods.

Back to KVIL, I don't think it makes much sense to ignore a category in a perceptual where 70 percent of your target audience answered yes. If you ignore that, then you're on even shakier ground when you pay attention to all of the other categories that showed yes answers at 40 percent and usually 20 percent or less.

 

[little1]

We're talking about KVIL, not KLUV. Two completely different situations.

No, we're talking about whether having a sports franchise adds to your ratings, especially when they're doing well. KVIL was doing MUCH better when the Cowboys were 1-15 then a few years later when they were doing better.

And KLUV, in the fall book (i.e. during Cowboy season) stayed in the same general range (3.8-4.3) when they had them and when they didn't.

for KLUV circa 2002. Also, both stations had direct competitors come and go during those time periods.

If the cowboys are responsible for an increase in ratings, how do you explain KLUV staying flat, if not trending up slightly, when they lost the Cowboys?

Or are you seriously trying to tell me that the Cowboys were responsible for ratings increase in KVIL in the 90's, but losing them had no effect on KLUV's ratings?

 

[ISaidSo]

People rarely listen to games on the radio anymore... Having teams is more about perception and revenue possibilities, and less about listeners.

 

[SmokeRing]

KVIL was doing MUCH better when the Cowboys were 1-15 then a few years later when they were doing better.

I've already responded to this. You're looking at 12+ numbers and making assumptions that were no where near true in that specific situation. KVIL had big trouble around 89-91. Those were the Garth Brooks years. Radio ratings shifted dramatically towards country. KVIL's 25-54 numbers dipped to the point that an outsider PD was brought in. It was considered a drastic situation there.

If the cowboys are responsible for an increase in ratings, how do you explain KLUV staying flat, if not trending up slightly, when they lost the Cowboys?

98.7 FM has never had more overall listeners than during the 3 hours Cowboys games were on the air. But those games were on Sundays. Monday nights. Sunday nights. Thursday nights. They moved around. And it's only 3 hours out of 168 in a total week. Surely you can understand that improvements in the other 165 hours of the week can easily account for the 12+ movement you're seeing?

Also, at about the time the Cowboys left, KLUV improved overall as a station. They went from Oldies to Classic Hits, and took over some musical territory that increased their 12+ appeal. They're still not a particularly successful 25-54 station, though.

And like I've already said, the KLUV format does well on weekends. Losing the Cowboys wouldn't hurt them as much as it would other stations. And for their business purposes, they'd probably rather have fewer overall listeners for 3 hours on Sundays, but more listeners in their target demo. I think that's what happened when the Cowboys left.

 

[johnqdoe]

I'm not sure that you guys are understanding the new slogan correctly.

Live talk. Live sports.

105.3 isn't trying to be an all sports station. They are just throwing out that they have LIVE sports.

That is a good point. However, the live sports has also lead to remotes at TMS, interviews with NASCAR drivers, and weekly football related shows. They don't just play the sport event and go back to normal programming. And, how many people listen to a car race? Baseball is fine on the radio, but that's about the only sport that does.

Not quite...There are many folks that listen to Nascar on the radio. Especially when the races are not on Fox. The other broadcast teams don't do nearly as good a job as PRN does. There are many folks that would rather listen to Craig Way than the D team announcers sent to Austin tomorrow night. Hell, I was goin CRAZY looking for the Horns 1st game on the radio when it wasn't shown on TV. I wish they woud've done a lil more promotion that KLLI carried Texas games. I went up and down the AM dial twice before scanning FM and finding it on Live. Thousands listen to the Cowboys broadcast team instead of TV. I know they're not on KLLI...but there are still people that tune into the radio for sports by choice. Thats not to mention the folks that do it for neccessity because of jobs, travel, or what have you.

 

[johnqdoe]

This is a horrifice idea.

I am a big sports fan and a big sports talk fan.

I listen to the ticket a lot. I don't listen to ESPN at all. 105.3 does not need to be sports intensive. It is a huge mistake. There is a market for regular talk radio that is not of a full political bent here... you just need to have hosts and shows that don't suck.

Without converting to full sports 105.3 would never be able to appeal to those of us who like regular talk and want a dose of sports, nor those who don't really care about sports and just want the talk. They would be solidly in no-wheresville.

Oh wait...

According to this board, KLLI doesn't have quality DAILY programming. Plugging sports in is an easy way to fill blocks of weekend time and get some revenue going that wouldn't normally be there. I don't listen to KLLI daily....but now I know the Longhorns are there, I'll tune in when I can't watch the game. It won't make me recycle and listen to Russ....but the advertisers reaching the sports fans will get me while the game's on.

 

[Lancer]

Superbowl on the radio, really?

Just think, we may get to HEAR a wardrobe malfunction this year. Stay tuned.

 

[johnqdoe]

Superbowl on the radio, really?

Just think, we may get to HEAR a wardrobe malfunction this year. Stay tuned.

This rule actually screws local broadcasters if their team makes the Superbowl. If Dallas goes all the way, the game won't be on the Ticket or Bone....but whatever network the NFL deems "official"

 

[salemjedi54]

Superbowl on the radio, really?

Just think, we may get to HEAR a wardrobe malfunction this year. Stay tuned.

This rule actually screws local broadcasters if their team makes the Superbowl. If Dallas goes all the way, the game won't be on the Ticket or Bone....but whatever network the NFL deems "official"

If the Cowboys do make it to NFC Championship game and/or Super Bowl, the games will be carried by The Ticket and The Bone LOCALLY...The NFL gives the network rights to Westwood One for the Championship games and the Super Bowl. So basically the Dallas Cowboys Radio Network will not air the games on any station outside of D/FW. Westwood One would take care of that.

When the Cowboys went back to the NFC Championship game in 1992, I remember hearing Brad Sham give an outcue "You are listening to Dallas Cowboys Football on 103.7 KVIL"

 

[ISaidSo]

Local radio broadcast is always on with team, only TV loses the broadcast (NBA, NHL, MLB) during championship round. Seems like NFL would have to protect local broadcast during Super Bowl though.

 

[FrontRowGreg]

I do remember Gavin saying they would broadcast the Super Bowl unless the Cowboys were in it.

 

[Lancer]

Guess it would help the pizza delivery guys keep up with the Superbowl scores.

Everyone else will find a TV somewhere.

 

[salemjedi54]

Local radio broadcast is always on with team, only TV loses the broadcast (NBA, NHL, MLB) during championship round. Seems like NFL would have to protect local broadcast during Super Bowl though.

I think that CBS radio would have to blackout the network feed in the DFW ADI, unless The Cowboys waive that provision.

I do remember when I was working for the Texas Rangers that 103.3 carried a ESPN Radio game that the Rangers were playing in Arlington. MLB and/or The Texas Rangers allowed 103.3 to air that game in D/FW against KRLD and the Rangers Radio Network. It can happen one or two times a year.

 

[mikewizowski]

JeffDFW sounds like some unreasonably disgruntled former employee. They are a Live and local radio station, and the sports they do host are Live....what was the question again? KLLI is certainly not perfect, but i'm wondering why Live gets picked on so heavily (disgruntled former employees again?), when KZPS's morning show sounds like content thrown out back in 1987...and it was tiresome then when i was 20 years younger.