Lonestar 92.5

[radioman921]

Now that we have had a few weeks of the station, have any opinions changed about it? If it doesn't work in the world of ratings and financially you know that some heads will roll. But that being said I think its a interesting idea. They just need to avoid becoming SRV station. I love Stevie but they play too much of his music. Burn out factor.

 

[little1]

I have 3 concerns with them-
#1- they're an old station. The only thing older than most of their music is their jocks. Bo and Jim, Dillon, Redbeard, all have them have been around since, what, the 70's?...Which means they're all 50+, approaching 60 probably...how long are these guys going to be able ( or want to) keep doing this? And how well is your average listener going to be able to react to these old guys? For example- I heard redbeard the other day talking about living on his farm in Kaufman county- I'm betting his average listener lives in a 4/2/2 in Frisco or McKinney and can't exactly relate...
1A. The music is OLD. Sure some of it is stuff we haven't heard in years (unless 'we' own the CD's) but that doesn't take away from the fact that "Willin'" by Little feat is 30 years old...Same with Hurricane by Dylan, and any number of stuff I've heard...If you go with the old rule of thumb that people love the most stuff that they grew up on (i.e. High school and college 'sets' your musical taste) they're playing a lot of music that appeals to the high end of the 25-54 demo
(For example, let's say you graduated from college in 75 at age 21. That makes you 53 years old right now)
Sure they're playing some newer stuff, and some of the alt-country stuff is much more recent, but they're playing a LOT of old stuff...And if I were programming the station I'd be trying to appeal to a much younger demo so that the demo can grow old with the station...Think about how KLUV keeps getting younger with their music mix- will Lonestar be able to keep intro'ing newer music-

#2- Will they be able to keep the no commercial bit going...It's nice not hearing spots, but will they shoot their own credibility in the foot someplace down the line when they start running ads? Or will they REALLY be able JUST sell live mentions and maintain teh kind of billing they need to be financially successful...

#3- This station can NOT be transferred in whole to another market...I know there's a lot of complaints about the corporate programming mentality, but it is what it is- and any chain of stations is looking to other markets to see what is succesful, and whether it's a Jack, a Wolf, a Ticket or a Kiss, everybody's looking for the next big thing...
And this ain't it. This might work here, this might work in Austin or Houston, but a station that plays classic rock, with a healthy dose of outlaw country, with a sprinkling of newer alt-country or texas country ain't gonna fly in Cleveland, Buffalo or Spokane...It's going to be way to easy for a 'pure' classic rock station to counter-image this station...

 

[sexyback]

True.. the twist is they have the chance to young up with the Pat Greens Jack Ingrams Ragweed crowds from colleges. That mix would be welcome...I have never heard a college kid at Tech say..wish I heard more Greatful Dead. Dead on Lonestar is a big so what.. early Texas Country and new..like the newer Ray Wylie Snake Farm can bring tremendous young to a channel that was really left for our parents. And whats wrong with a farm <Ranch> in Kaufman county? Its what he has...is it better to be a lieing "dj" and just make stuff up? That type of dj is gone...and good bye to them.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

There again,another demo that programmers and advertisers ignore because they think only the "young" listen to radio. That is a part of the problem why radio listenership shows an over all declined ,and the "excuse" given is internet,ipods,etc,when the answer is lack of innovation, creativity and a dj who understands his demo.
Those who make the big bucks by playing the homoginized crap you hear,will defend it vigorously,but I am sure they would change their "tune" so to speak once the big bucks downsizes to a trickle. I will agree Lonestar would only work in regional markets in Texas but nowhere else. NYC has on again off again country stations,so the format would go well there or Boston. One size doesnt fit all, just look at Movin,Free Fm, and Jack. Another factor is really a lack of TRUE competition among stations. Dallas for. example has only 1 oldies station,1 classic rock station, 1 classical station. The CONsultant sales mentality is each format competes with a different format. If you only have 1 classical station,and that listener wants to hear classical they are going to tune in no matter how bad it is,overload of spots etc. Competiton, real competition brings out the quality of the competitors. However the 5 year contract morning show,syndicated CONsultant advertising agency doesn't see it that way and ignores the fact that the fruit is withering on the vine. Its the 80's bidness mentality. Ty Mr. Gecko.

 

[TheLaffer]

I have 3 concerns with them-
#1- they're an old station. The only thing older than most of their music is their jocks. Bo and Jim, Dillon, Redbeard, all have them have been around since, what, the 70's?...Which means they're all 50+, approaching 60 probably...how long are these guys going to be able ( or want to) keep doing this? And how well is your average listener going to be able to react to these old guys? For example- I heard redbeard the other day talking about living on his farm in Kaufman county- I'm betting his average listener lives in a 4/2/2 in Frisco or McKinney and can't exactly relate...
1A. The music is OLD. Sure some of it is stuff we haven't heard in years (unless 'we' own the CD's) but that doesn't take away from the fact that "Willin'" by Little feat is 30 years old...Same with Hurricane by Dylan, and any number of stuff I've heard...If you go with the old rule of thumb that people love the most stuff that they grew up on (i.e. High school and college 'sets' your musical taste) they're playing a lot of music that appeals to the high end of the 25-54 demo
(For example, let's say you graduated from college in 75 at age 21. That makes you 53 years old right now)
Sure they're playing some newer stuff, and some of the alt-country stuff is much more recent, but they're playing a LOT of old stuff...And if I were programming the station I'd be trying to appeal to a much younger demo so that the demo can grow old with the station...Think about how KLUV keeps getting younger with their music mix- will Lonestar be able to keep intro'ing newer music-

#2- Will they be able to keep the no commercial bit going...It's nice not hearing spots, but will they shoot their own credibility in the foot someplace down the line when they start running ads? Or will they REALLY be able JUST sell live mentions and maintain teh kind of billing they need to be financially successful...

#3- This station can NOT be transferred in whole to another market...I know there's a lot of complaints about the corporate programming mentality, but it is what it is- and any chain of stations is looking to other markets to see what is succesful, and whether it's a Jack, a Wolf, a Ticket or a Kiss, everybody's looking for the next big thing...
And this ain't it. This might work here, this might work in Austin or Houston, but a station that plays classic rock, with a healthy dose of outlaw country, with a sprinkling of newer alt-country or texas country ain't gonna fly in Cleveland, Buffalo or Spokane...It's going to be way to easy for a 'pure' classic rock station to counter-image this station...

KLUV keeps getting younger with their music mix- will Lonestar be able to keep intro'ing newer music-

Actually KLUV plays older music than Lonestar. I still hear them play alot of 60's...having said that, i pretty much agree with everything else little1 said about lonestar.

Whatever happened to Brett on The Edge?

 

[TheRover]

The "This song would play well on a jukebox for listeners at a bar" meatlaity rules the day and the night . . . .

Don't we have enough stations already in this market that are catering to that mentality ? ? ?

What about people who aren't drunks, that don't smoke, that aren't divorced.....

That love great Rock music ? ? ?

Sound to me liek the beer advertisers are calling 'the shots'.

I will never want a drunk calling the shots for me.

No way... Never.

Someone who loves music more than beer & cigarettes would be a good place to start!!

 

[little1]

KLUV keeps getting younger with their music mix- will Lonestar be able to keep intro'ing newer music-

Actually KLUV plays older music than Lonestar. I still hear them play alot of 60's...having said that, i pretty much agree with everything else little1 said about lonestar.

What I meantby that is that KLUV is constantly redefining what they call oldies...I worked there in the early 90's and the playlist was heavy on the british invasion, Motown, etc...Now you listen and it's much more 70's based. In fact, I was just in the car a few minutes ago, they're doing some Eagles special- In the last 20 years or so, they've moved from 50's, to 60's to late 70's...THAT is what I meant by getting younger with their music mix...

And what I wonder is..will Lonestar be able to do the same? They're already playing 80's or 90's based 'rock' (like Georgia Satellites, Black Crowes, etc) will there be enough of that "type' of music to phase in as the Creedence, Stones, Springsteen, Seger, etc age themselves out of the attractive 25-54 demographic?

 

[little1]

example has only 1 oldies station,1 classic rock station, 1 classical station. .

Well, we had 2 classic rock stations until Lonestar conceded defeat and changed formats, no? And you're very rarely EVER going to have more than one classical station in a market (unless #2 is non-comm) because the audience appeal isn't that great...

And do you really expect us to take you seriously when you say there's no competition amongst stations? There's at least 5 new/talk stations, 3 sports stations, like 7 country stations, etc etc...And don't even get me started on teh spanish stations...And don't you think both KVIL and Mix are competing for the highland park MILF? And while Jack may not be a textbook classic rock station, you do realize, don't you, that their biggest competition is KZPS (well,was) The Bone and KLUV?

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

The Talks stations have TRUE competition. The Spanish stations appear to have TRUE competition. KSCS,The Wolf are competitors. Everything else ...NO. The formats you try to blend,are not the same format. WRR was just something to toss out and no I have never seen a market with two commercial classical stations. Your "narrowcasting" only sees what a sales person wants to see and you over look what a listener perhaps would like to hear..>"Quality". To get quality you need to be sharp and have a true competitor. MIX and KVIL in sound ,etc are different. perhaps they play MAYBE 3 songs in similarity,but besides that, sorry LIttle1 not even close. Thats like comparing KLTY with KHVN , both are religous but worlds apart. The problem with CONsultants and sales people and the under 40 advertising director is they expect the real world to think and act like them. Lesser choices creates forced listening and false results under the circumstances. Its all quantity to them NOT quality.

 

[GRAYWOLF]

I disagree on KSCS & KPLX... KPLX & Twister are closer. KSCS plays more of the older country mixed with pop country. Now that KPLX has added some classic rock to their mix they have distanced themselves from Twister. They are both tied up in the pop country and mix in a little Texas.

Ranch & Range don't overlap coverage enough to be competitors.

KDBN & KZPS were drifting closer together in recent months, but started out rather different. KDBN was an Ozzy station that mixed in a little classic rock with their post classic rock era and hair bands (trying to fall somewhere between KZPS and KDGE). After they showed up, KZPS added in the Hair bands and more recently started adding in post "CR" bands.

The market does not have a big time "oldies" station anymore. There are just a couple of rimshots. KLUV may still mix some oldies, but it is just a part of their mix now. They seem to be more focused the KVIL/MIX/Jack demo.

Jack seems to be more for the male counterpart of the MIX/KVIL demo. That said, I still think Jack is a bit unique in this market and not a real competitor to anyone else out side the general sense.

KZPS is still a better CR station than they were before. Just having a bigger "on air" play list, makes a difference. They no longer have any competition...

 

[little1]

The Talks stations have TRUE competition. The Spanish stations appear to have TRUE competition. KSCS,The Wolf are competitors. Everything else ...NO. The formats you try to blend,are not the same format. WRR was just something to toss out and no I have never seen a market with two commercial classical stations. Your "narrowcasting" only sees what a sales person wants to see and you over look what a listener perhaps would like to hear..>"Quality". To get quality you need to be sharp and have a true competitor. MIX and KVIL in sound ,etc are different. perhaps they play MAYBE 3 songs in similarity,but besides that, sorry LIttle1 not even close.

They may not be the same format, but they're targeting the same audience. Which means they need to differentiate themselves from their competitiors.
You guys can split hairs and cliam that one is a rock station, one's classic rock, one's active rock, etc etc, but when it comes down to brass tacks, they're all rock stations and all targeting the same basic subgroups of the bigger pie.
And same for the chick stations. Sure KVIL may skew a little older, and Mix a little younger, but believe me, they're competing for a LOT of the same audience...In my book, that makes them competitors...

Or let me phrase this a little differently- you seem to agree that the sports stations have competition. But I used to date a girl that sold for Live 105.3...and according to her, one of 105.3's biggest competitors is The Ticket...And vice versa...
So if the Ticket's competition is ESPN and 990, what is 105.3? Or are they all competitors because they're ALL trying to get that Man aged 25-54 to listen to them?

If you were to refine your statement to say that having a "true" format compeititor makes you bring your "A" game, I wouldn't disagree. But to say that there's no competition is pure stupidty or a willful misreading of the market...

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

"In my book, that makes them competitors"

Your book apparently has only a cover.

" I used to date a girl that sold for Live 105.3...and according to her, one of 105.3's biggest competitors is The Ticket...And vice versa...
So if the Ticket's competition is ESPN and 990, what is 105.3? Or are they all competitors because they're ALL trying to get that Man aged 25-54 to listen to them?
"According to her" is a key phrase" "Sold" is another. AE's don't comprehend programming, they only sell ,and if its an informercial in drive time, it doesn't matter to them ,they made a sale and a commission. The trouble is getting away from programming. Programming around sales should be selling around programming.

"But to say that there's no competition is pure stupidty or a willful misreading of the market..."

Neither on my part. TRUE competition head to head format is minimal at best,which makes radio worse. As I said only CONsultants, and sales personnel plus ad agencies don't see it. They only see if they can make money and reduce the competition so it makes their jobs easier. Who cares about the quality of the programming? As long as they can sell slop to a pig,they are rolling in the mud.

 

[little1]

Okay, simple question. Are 105.3 and 1310 competitors?

And if you say no, then how do you explain that they are constantly fighting for the lead in the men 25-54 demographic? If 1 is #1 and the other is #2, and then they flip in teh next book, (which happens a LOT) aren't they defacto competitors?

 

[johnqdoe]

Okay, simple question. Are 105.3 and 1310 competitors?

And if you say no, then how do you explain that they are constantly fighting for the lead in the men 25-54 demographic? If 1 is #1 and the other is #2, and then they flip in teh next book, (which happens a LOT) aren't they defacto competitors?

ding ding ding ding...Stations don't have to be the exact same format to be competitors. Sometimes it IS cut & dry...pre-Lonestar KZPS vs. KDBN...which Zps seemed to win most of the time...BUT you had stations like Jack, 1310, and 105.3 also eating into those male numbers. Jack has become even MORE of a classic rock station since the Zps flip.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Now that we have had a few weeks of the station, have any opinions changed about it?

Same as before: country music sucks. But - then - I might be prejudiced by the treatment I got from rednecks in the past.

Flip it back to classic rock. Anything but country, Spanish, or talk!

 

[guy_gadbois]

I would just like to see them go one way or the other. It is too half-assed right now. They just need to go back to classic rock if they are going to repeat Bob Seger, Bad Company, The Doors and Steve Miller Band songs.

 

[salemjedi54]

The Talks stations have TRUE competition. The Spanish stations appear to have TRUE competition. KSCS,The Wolf are competitors. Everything else ...NO. The formats you try to blend,are not the same format. WRR was just something to toss out and no I have never seen a market with two commercial classical stations. Your "narrowcasting" only sees what a sales person wants to see and you over look what a listener perhaps would like to hear..>"Quality". To get quality you need to be sharp and have a true competitor. MIX and KVIL in sound ,etc are different. perhaps they play MAYBE 3 songs in similarity,but besides that, sorry LIttle1 not even close. Thats like comparing KLTY with KHVN , both are religous but worlds apart. The problem with CONsultants and sales people and the under 40 advertising director is they expect the real world to think and act like them. Lesser choices creates forced listening and false results under the circumstances. Its all quantity to them NOT quality.

Other "COMPETING" Stations in this market:

KKDA-FM and KBFB
KKDA and KHVN
KSOC and KRNB

Granted KKDA and KHVN are not direct format competitors..but they do compete for the same audience, and advertisers.

 

[KPLEXCOMPLEX]

LIttle one since 1310 does more GUY TALK than sports ,yeah it competes with 105.3, other than that.uh uh. I stated the case you disagree. I am not surprised. If you would look at at it from a strictly programming point of view and not the jadded glasses of an advertising agency CONsultant,sales person, you just might see and understand it. Thats the problem. Broadcasting is looked at with sales,not programming quality content. If you placed programming as a priority instead sales,it would fall together.As it is the audience is deflating with each passing year over all.

 

[johnqdoe]

LIttle one since 1310 does more GUY TALK than sports ,yeah it competes with 105.3, other than that.uh uh. I stated the case you disagree. I am not surprised. If you would look at at it from a strictly programming point of view and not the jadded glasses of an advertising agency CONsultant,sales person, you just might see and understand it. Thats the problem. Broadcasting is looked at with sales,not programming quality content. If you placed programming as a priority instead sales,it would fall together.As it is the audience is deflating with each passing year over all.

If you look at it from a LISTENER point of view, you'd probably find a 42 year old married guy with his pre-sets being KZPS, KDBN, KSCS, KPLX, ESPN 103.3, Live 105, and the Ticket....

 

[little1]

LIttle one since 1310 does more GUY TALK than sports ,yeah it competes with 105.3, other than that.uh uh. I stated the case you disagree. I am not surprised. If you would look at at it from a strictly programming point of view and not the jadded glasses of an advertising agency CONsultant,sales person, you just might see and understand it. Thats the problem. Broadcasting is looked at with sales,not programming quality content. If you placed programming as a priority instead sales,it would fall together.As it is the audience is deflating with each passing year over all.

If you look at it from a LISTENER point of view, you'd probably find a 42 year old married guy with his pre-sets being KZPS, KDBN, KSCS, KPLX, ESPN 103.3, Live 105, and the Ticket....

Exactly.

I just laugh in that Kplexcomplex keeps telling me not to look at it from a agency/consultant/sales point of view, but rather look at it from a programming point of view...When I've worked on the programming side of radio most of my adult life. Right at 30 years, and I've been in radio, in programming for around 25 of those...
(and if it wasn't for a couple of pesky felony convictions, it would probably be all 30...)