look out Jack haters

[radiolover78]

Re: Jack haters

I have to take issue with the Howard Cogan comment below, though 'Cat. You championed him against the grain in the beginning along with "people didn't get the 'playing what we want' as being misunderstood. I like the weekly new additions to his portfolio. Like the music, you never know whatsmartass thing he is going to say. It completes the concept. What I am not nearly as fond of is the "this is Jean from BF and I loves me some Jack"liners of "listeners" that seemingly call in and try to make up cutesy poems and stuff about Jack. They are to long and boring and actually to medestroy the flow. But, then again, from the listener standpoint it makes sense that they are part of the team until it comes to picking the music.I also like the dreaded music directly to commercial from time to time because it breaks another cardinal sin. All this is unpredictable and refreshing....and damned profitable....."Time to make the BMW payment...huh, go figure. Jack'll be back in a flash...."Actually it's paid for.

Personally I like the Dallas Jack's online sweepers...they have one poking fun at their sister station KVIL! And another sounds like a choir singing in a church...and catches you offguard But their online stream always goes back to music via Howard's voice or a sweeper after a spot break..(now the commercials they run is another matter!! DONT GO IN THERE!!!! You'll get the joke on that after a few breaks) www.jackontheweb.com is the web site.

Obviously Steppenwolf has NO facts in any of his posts. Hmmmm, should we take him seriously? ??? No!

 

[OldiesCat1]

You are right. And, when it's time for the rubber to meet the road (Steppenwolf providing any credible evidence that the Variety Hits format is a total disaster nearly everywhere), he always clams up. That's what talking out of your a@$ does.

 

[rockingoldiez]

As a new member of this forum I would like to join the debate on the "Jack" format. I started in radio in 1973 at the tender young age of 15 and over the years I have seen many new formats come and go but I would like to say that I'm still on fence when it comes to "Jack" I see it as a new twist on old school top40 and I love the music but hate the automation.Now don't get me wrong I think automation is great as a tool but not a crutch and if you don't think the regular listener can't tell you would be surprised. But with that said I would have to give the guy's at "Jack" a big thumbs up for having the Kahauna's to try something new. I would like to see a little more personality and localiasm to the format and even expand the playlist a little more.I've been told by PD's and have seen posts on this site that say you can't play 50's and 80's music together, well I have to strongly disagree.I do a webcast every friday night playing music from the 50's through the mid 90's for about 5 month's and my number or tune-in's have steadly increased evey week I have received tons of E-mails from listeners who love the mix of music.The Average listener is sick of the narrow playlists and the same 300 songs over and over and the huge commercial clusters.I really thought that WJMK (Chicago) was on the right track with their oldies operation as they were expanding their playlist and then boom here comes "Jack" my advice would be drop the condescending liners(It turns off more people than you think) expand the playlist a little more and add some personality.To Quote D. Miller"That's my opinion and I could be wrong"

 

[OldiesCat1]

You're right about how Jack came to be- it was a response to growing frustration over the same ole-same ole radio format approaches, all with tight playlists. And, there are Variety Hits stations with personalities. The Peak in Phoenix, Louie in Louisville, The Arch in St. Louis have a jock presence. But I have to tell you that in the research I'm seeing, listeners in markets where the format is doing well are not really screaming from the mountain tops for DJs. I think that not only the repetition of music on other formats got old but the repetition of disc jockeys saying the same ole thing the same ole way, day after day, got old, too. If a Variety Hits station ends up going with some personality component, it's my humble believe it cannot be done in a business-as-usual manner- morning zoo, etc. They will have to weave into the fibre of the radio station, not overtake the main reason listeners are grooving on these stations.

 

[rockingoldiez]

If a Variety Hits station ends up going with some personality component, it's my humble believe it cannot be done in a business-as-usual manner- morning zoo, etc. They will have to weave into the fibre of the radio station, not overtake the main reason listeners are grooving on these stations.

I agree with you 100% sir, that's why it should be programed and created and not researched by consultants.Great music was not researched it was created the same goes for radio.I'm glad to see that some of the Variety Hits stations are using jocks.The stations in my area Jack in Chicago and Max in Grand Rapids are all automated.Max in GR are doing weather and traffic and are using jingles too which I like. The variety hits format has such great potential let's just hope the corporate bean counter's and consultants don't screw it up. :-\

 

[OldiesCat1]

I'll make one correction, if you don't mind- the "consultants suck" thing doesn't fly. "Consultants" are not to blame for robo-radio formats. "Consultants" always get blamed with chickens#$t GMs and PDs won't take their own lumps when they screw up, so remember- the consultants are EMPLOYED BY radio stations, consultants don't own the stations.

 

[rockingoldiez]

"Consultants" are not to blame for robo-radio formats.

You have got to be kidding right? With all due respect sir in my 30+ years in broadcasting I have delt with a lion's share of consultants.When the "powers that be" hire consultants they have full control and way to many times I've seen many a great station torn apart and playlists whittled down to nothing then the stations tank as the consultants slither off to a new town and station and do it all over again.I mean no disrespect to you as I have viewed many of your posts I find you very knowledgeable of the industry but as the old saying goes "been there done that" and seen it with my own 2 eyes.

 

[OldiesCat1]

beg to disagree

I've been in it just as long and ANY broadcaster who gives (or SAYS they give) consultants "full control" ought to be shot. I say this with great confidence that most radio station/consultant relationships that don't work out are usually for two reasons:a) the consultant totally knows what they're talking about, having conducted in-market research and the ability to pull from other successful experiences but the GM and or PD only follows what they want to follow- the station tanks and then they blame "the consultant" and everybody believes them because "consultants are evil".b) a consultant (the wrong one) comes in and the GM gives them total oversight because he and his PD are too lazy or inexperienced.It's usually the former. I know there's a lot of "blame the consultant" going on in radio and has for years but I tell you with great confidence that the good consultants (most of them) genuinely care about the success of the radio stations they work with. There are a few bad eggs out there and a few who blow a lot of hot air but deliver little- that can be said about people in radio in general. The minute I hear "all consultant suck", I conclude somebody who is just bitter and frustrated they haven't 'made it' in radio OR somebody who worked at a consulted station that had a weak GM and or PD who couldn't execute a game plan and blamed their failures on somebody else.

 

[OKCRadioGuy]

There ARE some good consultants out there that do a great job, however, the thing that stinks IS when the management takes consultants' advice over the local advice of those that have enough experience IN market to make educated decisions. First, having a bad P.D. is just that. Management should be able to hire and retain people that have a clue so total reliance on external forces isn't necessary. With that being said, a consultant should consult, not RUN a station. I've seen time and time again some idiot from elsewhere come in and force a bad idea on a station because "it worked in Alanta and it'll work here!" Consultants are very good at selling themselves and selling their ideas, even if it's the worst idea on the face of the earth. To many management types their word is that from on high, and must be followed to the letter of the law. Deviation from it will result in severe penalties, especially things don't go perfectly for the local P.D.s. Consultants are allowed several screw-ups and seem to generally get away with "ohhhh.. this market is a bit different" while locals get their butts fired for the same thing. Now, I'm not saying that consultants are all bad, I just am saying the way corporate radio uses them is bad actually. Giving them the keys to place and telling them to do whatever they wish formatically is the WORST idea out there. There's no way on earth a guy that looks over tons of stations nationwide could really know a local market and it's differences.. Period! Consultants should be limited to just that. They should be there to CONSULT.

 

[OldiesCat1]

I guess it's consultant haters

Obviously, they're supposed to "consult". But a good consultant can't help it if the GM and/or PD is a weenie. As far as this a consultant's advice vs. "in-market", you have to remember the good consultants take situations and techinques that work in other markets and present them as tools and ideas to those who may not have been exposed. Your description about local management obeying the letter of the law, pentalites from on-high, etc., smacks of overwhelmed or egotistical market managers who (as they often to with consultants) are passing the buck on to corporate. Another comment you made about "consultants very good at selling themselves and their ideas, even if it's the worst idea on earth" is way out of line. Do you really, REALLY think the thought process of an experienced, accomplished broadcast consultant works like that- "hey, this idea blows but they'll bite and maybe think I'm smart"? Rarely. Most consultants' compensation is based on the radio station's success- it is not in their best interest to impart ideas they know won't work. DUH.This assumption that the local operators always know better than consultants is a small-market mindset. Any Programmer who doesn't really and truly want to know what's going on outside his market that's working for other radio stations is paranoid or so self-centered he or she should be fired. Great Programmers can mold ideas from outside and customize them for their individual station and market. You don't have to know a local market like you live there to be an effective resource to a radio station. I've worked with a number of good, caring consultants over the years and have found they really want to be part of the stations they consults' success. Whenever I hear the "blame the consultant" rant, I can almost guarantee it's a case where the local operator is over their heads and subsequently blame "the consultant" after the fact. And, the wierd thing is that most disc jockeys actually believe it.

 

[Tibbs4]

I feel the need to "suggest" a consultant board on RI.