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Looking for AGC

B

Brian Bowers

I maintain a sound system in a bar on the side. I incorporate the jukebox into the sound system. Jukebox (TouchTunes and ecast, we have TouchTunes) sound file levels are all over the place. The software AGC TouchTunes provides is horrible (on or off, that's it, no adjustable settings). So I have been using a Symetrix 422 (discontinued) wideband leveler and Behringer Ultra Dyne DSP 9024 (6 band compress & limit-also discontinued) as the small AGC/compress/limit chain. Believe it or not, this little chain works really well, with no detectable pumping - and this bar sometimes cranks their speakers. However, the DSP 9024 has failed, and I'm waiting to hear if it can be repaired. My question is, does anyone have any opinions on the DBX Quantum, or TC Electronics Finalizer? Both are listed as being mastering type compressors/limiters. I suppose I could just buy another DSP 9024 off ebay, but I thought if anyone has any opinions on this, I would love to hear it. Basically looking to process (including limiting) balanced stereo analog with a 1,2 or 3 space rack unit, cheaply. Not looking for external computer software processing programs or boxes. Thanks.
 
[quote author. Not looking for external computer software processing programs or boxes. Thanks.
[/quote]

Shame, cause breakaway is perfect for this and it will sound like gold.
 
If you're not running the processed sound into radio and looking for every last ounce of loudness while staying just below
a limit such as excess deviation on FM or clipping on AM, then you might be happy with
a PRO VLA amplifier.
Rack-mounting, it is sold and marketed to the recording industry and is very musical.
It uses vacuum tubes as the variabke gain element.
I still use it in conjunction with Breakaway, as it adds a certain "wetness" I like.
It was not so great by itself at controlling complex material, but once Breakawy does the hard work,
it still makes things subjectively louder without detracting.
 
Tom-

Thanks for information about the Art unit. Not to get too far off subject, but I've never used (or seen) an Art unit. I've always assumed that the Art gear was inferior and not broadcast ready. Am I wrong? Are these units suited for broadcast environments?
 
I have had an issue with a poor crimp on the end of a ribbon cable, casuing some intermittant audio, but it has not returned.
I think some of the potentiometers are not in the signal path, but do get "funny" spots where the control signal back to the processor may or may not be exactly what you think it is.

Still, it does have a very nice looking toroid AC transformer, a line fuse, and the tubes are still good after 4 years continuous on.

It's not built to be very rugged, but I see less durable looking things showing up in industrial environments.

I'm using it on air, and not at all worried that this is just about to fail anytime soon.
On the other hand, if this were on a commercial station, I'd want to have 3 or 4 around, and/or have
an engineer who can read circuit boards.

There was a lightning strike a few weeks back....took out ethernet ports, hubs, network drive and the fuse of the
ART VLA, but no audio circuits damaged at all. Xmtr is all vac tube after the PRO VLA.

I wouldn't expect the VLA to be very happy in a high RF environment. It is all unbalanced design, but seems to have enough
metal to be worth a try.
I don't think it's ENOUGH of a processor to be worthwhile for on air use by itself because it has no
way to deal with complex materail ( no multiband processing).

I have to say it has been worth my money after a few years review.
 
I'd look for a nice old stereo compellor on fleabay. I've bought some orignial 320's for about 150 dollars. With that being said, RDL has a pretty nice compressor-limiter for about that much that's a stick-on. http://www.rdlnet.com/product.php?page=242 I've sucessfully used one for streaming paired up with a Barix unit at a place that has has dim-wits for owners (didn't want to worry about a computer).
 
For less than the price of farting around with all that other gear, such as the TC Finalizer or DBX Quantum a cheap PC with a SSHD and Breakaway Live could be had that will blow the rest of it out of the water.

I know he said "no PC", but sometimes you gotta think beyond the same old same old.

And if you're going to spend $2,499 on a TC Finalizer, you may as well buy an Omnia.One and load up the studio firmware. You could sit in the bar and adjust it from your laptop to get the best sound from the listening position, not in front of the rack.
 
I know you guys rave about the Breakaway system all the time on the board here, and someday I would love to hear it and play with it, but for this application, I would prefer not to go with it. The bartenders sometimes already have to deal with rebooting the jukebox, and the laptop (which kicks in filler music when the juke isn't playing). Even the DSP 9024 was a mini computer in a box, and sometimes depending on power glitches, that would have to get rebooted too. This may be more information than you need to know, but there is no room behind the bar for a PC. Even though we might be able to run the program through the laptop, which is behind the bar, I really don't want to go there. The bartenders are there mainly to pour drinks, not troubleshoot the sound system. The 3,000 watts of amplification is in the basement. Even though I may be able to put a PC down there, to lessen trouble calls, I don't think I will. The rest of the mixers and processing is behind the bar in a 14 space rack cabinet, which is full. No extra room there either for expansion, or anywhere behind the bar. I already have a decent amount of failsafe built into the system. I don't doubt the Breakaway program would sound awesome in this bar, and this would be the perfect place to try it out, but it is much easier when a trouble call comes in, to ask the bartenders to look at boxes, and tell me what lights are on or not on. The TC Electronics Finalizer, if recommended, would be purchased off ebay for around $350. If you guys have never played with a Behringer Ultra Dyne DSP 9024, let me tell you, it was way ahead of its time. Six bands of compression and limiting?! Wow! Surrpisingly, I think I got it right the first time by matching this box with the Symetrix 422. When they crank this system, sometimes to somewhere around outdoor concert levels, I can sit there and easily critique my settings and go yeah, that sounds really really good. But I'm still interested in knowing if there is an affordable box out there I am not familiar with. Preferably a multiband box. As always, thanks for your help and input.
 
I've played with a few of these outstanding units from FMR Audio. Although many have never heard of the brand, these units may well be the "Breakaway of the hardware realm." Specifically, fantastic sound and quality for little cost. Many believe that these units perform like a $2,000 box.

http://www.fmraudio.com/products.htm
 
Damn, pricing is right, but no balanced ins and outs. The system in the bar is almost entirely +4 balanced. Please, not another Henry matchbox. I'm already utilizing 3 in the bar the way it is. Although this is what I am looking for, a name I am not used to seeing out there - FMR audio. I will give it some thought. The tech at DC Tronics just today tells me he has ordered a chip for my Behringer Ultra Dyne DSP 9024. Hopefully that will fix it. I pulled out the manual today and looked at it again. That Behringer is so flexible, and you can't even hear it working. Great metering too. Having worked with many Orbans, and one Omnia over the years, this little chain (Symetrix 422 into the DSP 9024) comes very close to sounding like them, for under $500 used. That of course was my goal. Sounds impossible right? Unfortunately, the DSP 9024 is barely supported anymore.
 
Download the Breakaway demo and listen for yourself.

http://www.claessonedwards.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=137

The limiting section (and everything else) is LIGHT YEARS better than the Behringer box. That was an interesting toy, as long as you didn't use the final limiter in any way.

You could put it on the jukebox computer if there is enough processor power, and set it to start with Windows. Doesn't really get much easier than that, and one less thing for someone to bump into or turn off.
 
I highly doubt TouchTunes will allow me to do that, and I probably won't even go there, since that is all very proprietary, and they are understandably very protective of it, but I will check out the link. I would not want to get into a finger pointing bitch session with them telling me I screwed up their computer by installing some software that doesn't run with theirs. Noooo, don't want to go there at all. And you definitely don't want that to happen when you have a full bar of drunken patrons, and you're trying to get the jukebox working. I am lucky enough to be working with a vendor that allows me the freedom to interact as much as I do with the jukebox inners. Heck, I had to step in sometime ago, since the original system (ecast) kept shutting down when they turned the volume up the littlest bit. None of the techs the amusement vendor employed could figure it out. Now we have 1 amp per set of speakers, everywhere. Nothing hopefully is going below 2 ohms, or even 4 for that matter . BTW, why doesn't Breakaway offer their highly praised program in a rack unit version? There might be a market for that.
 
Brian Bowers said:
BTW, why doesn't Breakaway offer their highly praised program in a rack unit version? There might be a market for that.
Click to expand...

They do. It's the Omnia 9.

I have never had Breakaway crash, and I bought and have been using it since it was available. Hasn't glitched in all that time.
 
Omnia 9? As much as I would love to, I could never ask the owner to spend that kind of money on a processing box for an 80 capacity bar. OK so let me ask the question, to all of you fans of Breakaway, what would it cost to put together a Breakaway Live system, with one set of balanced ins and outs? I already have the harware in place for controlling volume levels in different zones. No need to change that. Keep in mind, we would need to start from scratch, so be specific.
 
Okay, I'll second that endorsement mentioned earlier of the RDL modules. I'm using a couple around a studio (telco feed, program and talkback feed to remote)--it will definitely level your sources.
 
It might cost $400, if you bought a gently used computer (or built one) and an emu 0404, for example.

Sounds like all you really need is the cheapest version of the software. Enhancer? Which is $30, I believe.
 
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