Lost another one to talk. Goodbye, 'KB.

[CTListener]

Re: HD radio may be for you

> Have you checked out some of the Oldies stations on Clear
> Channel's HD website??
> They make a 32k bits/second stream in stereo, its not too
> bad.
>
> http://www.clearchannelmusic.com/hdradio/
>
> I have been listening lately to Tulsa's KQLL-FM HD-2 50s
> and 60s oldies.
>
> A sample of what they're playing including a few OH WOW
> songs:
>
> Since I Lost My Baby-Temptations
> Today I Met the Boy I'm Gonna Marry-Darlene Love
> Kansas City-Wilber Harrison
(complete playlist snipped)

That's a great '50s-'60s stream. Too bad Clear Channel has already programmed the HD channels of its Hartford cluster and oldies isn't among the formats. I guess I'll have to wait and see whether Buckley's Hartford station, which is more classic hits (with a bit of soul) than true oldies now, will put a similar stream on HD2 later this year. Right now, they've got HD up and running, but only for a simulcast of the main signal.

Even the Clear Channel stream, though, won't satisfy my '70s cravings. But then, maybe that's an addiction I need to kick.

 

[Joseph_Gallant]

Oldies And Noncommercial FM

I don't see a large number of noncommercial stations going oldies.

In the last few years, many NPR member stations have dropped music (usually classical and/or jazz) to go 24/7 news and information, because music and cultural programming usually doesn't bring-in pledge $$$ whereas NPR news/information programming does.

So don't look for high-power noncommercial FM's to go oldies unless it can be proven that the format would generate lots of pledge dollars from listeners.

 

[gr8oldies]

Re: Oldies And Noncommercial FM

Nothing oldies-wise on the left side around me, Praise'N'Worship, NPR, Christian teaching and maybe some R&B oldies on occasion from historically-black Central State University (Dayton, OH area). Wright State has a station on 106.9 with the alternative to alternative.

 

[mike704]

Re: another one

> They could have plastered billboards on every street corner
> and it wouldn't have made much difference. Oldies fans have
> been listening to their music on FM for over 20 years- AM is
> (for the most part) an unacceptable sacrifice to hear their
> music. Most would prefer CDs, Satellite or an MP3 player
> vs. the static and fidelity that's on AM signals, 50kw
> notwithstanding.

It's that kind of thinking from within Entercom that doomed the format from the start. They even admit they didn't try very hard to sell it. If you're going to do something,anything less than a 100% commitment is a waste of time. I agree about the billboards. I worked for a station that invested money in billboards, lots of them. Seems that people never paid any attention to them. That doesn't mean that good promotions wouldn't have helped.

KB is not just another radio station. This station enjoyed a huge amount of good will. That good will was forever flushed by this last move. There is no way to bring it back now and liberal talk isn't going to cut it. For one thing they won't give the station a local news staff to give it credibility. The station will be run from a closet and forgotten. To the listener it becomes that station that loser chnges format every couple of years...very sad!

How can you sell if you don't believe it what you are selling?

 

[peppertree]

Re: a few other songs on KQLL-FM

http://www.archive.org/download/RonGerbercftp2002hifi/020617b.mp3


Originals of

Twist And Shout
Rock Around The Clock
Somebody To Love
Betty Davis Eyes

Were played on this show.

Does anyone remember the original Rock Around The Clock? It was forgotten when it came out. It was done by a Philadelphia Black group.



> > Go Now-Moody Blues (another forgotten song by oldies
> > stations)
>
> You think that's forgotten, what about the ORIGINAL version
> by Bessie Banks, so much better than the Moody Blues'
> already excellent rendition. Oooooh, my soul!
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[oldies_listener]

Re: revenue

Thanks for the reply Mr. Cat. I understand about not wanting to be the last operator holding on to a format that no longer delivers a saleable audience. No one wouild want to have to explain not being "proactive" in that area to their board.

Leaving CBS aside for the moment, I do note the silence from the other radio pros concerning before and after revenues for stations that have been out of oldies for a meaningful time. Perhaps it is not a fair or relevant question although declining revenue or poor revenue potential has been cited so many times in explaining the need to flip oldies stations.



> Not trying to answer for David but one thing I want to point
> out is that we have to be careful about using the CBS-FM
> flip as an umbrella over all the Oldies stations who've
> flipped. It was the original Oldies station (for most of
> us) and wasn't unsuccessful from a revenue standpoint when
> they flipped to Jack- that move wasn't made for last or this
> year but long-term (and, it could be argued they botched it
> from a P.R. standpoint, etc.).
>
> Most stations who've dropped Oldies did so for revenue
> purposes- they didn't see the tide changing when it comes to
> additudes about marketing to 50+ radio listeners and decided
> not to get caught behind the eight ball. From an emotional
> and love-of-the-format view, it sucks- from a business
> standpoint, it is understandable.
>
> All that being said, Oldies Programmers bear some
> responsibility here. Way too many refused to evolve the era
> balance of their stations and it seemed like one day we woke
> up and these stations sounded "old"- out of date, and it was
> too late for most to recover. At least 5 years ago, a
> gentle evolution away from '50s and into the '70s should
> have begun but that was a tough concept for the purists to
> put their arms around. Unfortunately, it resulted in a
> general red flag for the industry that said "the format's
> over- all their listeners are moving into their late '50s
> and early '60s and there ain't no gold in them thar hills".
>
>
> > Have the stations that dropped oldies some time ago fared
> > better revenue wise? If the revenues zre lower are they
> > continuing to grow? It may be early yet for meaningful
> data
> > on WCBS, but WSAI has been talking for a year. A number
> of
> > others have also been with their new formats for some time
>
> > now.
> >
> > Is there any info you or the others in the business can
> > share?
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> > > > Limited audience? Very limited. The music format had
> very low shares.
>

 

[OldiesCat]

revenue

Declining revenue was indeed the motivation for a great majority of these flips away from Oldies. And, please remember many of these flips away from Oldies wasn't necessarily done for revenue concerns this month or year but for the long-term.
>
> Leaving CBS aside for the moment, I do note the silence from
> the other radio pros concerning before and after revenues
> for stations that have been out of oldies for a meaningful
> time. Perhaps it is not a fair or relevant question
> although declining revenue or poor revenue potential has
> been cited so many times in explaining the need to flip
> oldies stations.
>
>
>
> > Not trying to answer for David but one thing I want to
> point
> > out is that we have to be careful about using the CBS-FM
> > flip as an umbrella over all the Oldies stations who've
> > flipped. It was the original Oldies station (for most of
> > us) and wasn't unsuccessful from a revenue standpoint when
>
> > they flipped to Jack- that move wasn't made for last or
> this
> > year but long-term (and, it could be argued they botched
> it
> > from a P.R. standpoint, etc.).
> >
> > Most stations who've dropped Oldies did so for revenue
> > purposes- they didn't see the tide changing when it comes
> to
> > additudes about marketing to 50+ radio listeners and
> decided
> > not to get caught behind the eight ball. From an
> emotional
> > and love-of-the-format view, it sucks- from a business
> > standpoint, it is understandable.
> >
> > All that being said, Oldies Programmers bear some
> > responsibility here. Way too many refused to evolve the
> era
> > balance of their stations and it seemed like one day we
> woke
> > up and these stations sounded "old"- out of date, and it
> was
> > too late for most to recover. At least 5 years ago, a
> > gentle evolution away from '50s and into the '70s should
> > have begun but that was a tough concept for the purists to
>
> > put their arms around. Unfortunately, it resulted in a
> > general red flag for the industry that said "the format's
> > over- all their listeners are moving into their late '50s
> > and early '60s and there ain't no gold in them thar
> hills".
> >
> >
> > > Have the stations that dropped oldies some time ago
> fared
> > > better revenue wise? If the revenues zre lower are they
>
> > > continuing to grow? It may be early yet for meaningful
> > data
> > > on WCBS, but WSAI has been talking for a year. A number
>
> > of
> > > others have also been with their new formats for some
> time
> >
> > > now.
> > >
> > > Is there any info you or the others in the business can
> > > share?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Limited audience? Very limited. The music format
> had
> > very low shares.
> >
>

 

[OldiesCat]

KB

But you hit the key word: enjoyed (past tense). Just because KB was a legend in the 60s and 70s means nothing today. If you want to live in the world that "was", that's fine. Just don't be surprised when what "is" doesn't line up with your expectations.

>
> KB is not just another radio station. This station enjoyed
> a huge amount of good will. That good will was forever
> flushed by this last move. There is no way to bring it back
> now and liberal talk isn't going to cut it. For one thing
> they won't give the station a local news staff to give it
> credibility. The station will be run from a closet and
> forgotten. To the listener it becomes that station that
> loser chnges format every couple of years...very sad!
>
> How can you sell if you don't believe it what you are
> selling?
>

 

[TheFonz]

Re: revenue

> [Leaving CBS aside for the moment, I do note the silence from
> the other radio pros concerning before and after revenues
> for stations that have been out of oldies for a meaningful
> time. Perhaps it is not a fair or relevant question
> although declining revenue or poor revenue potential has
> been cited so many times in explaining the need to flip
> oldies stations.]



That reminds me.................it seems that someone asked if Cincinnati's WSAI is doing any better since they flipped from Oldies to Air America Radio. Did we ever get an answer to that question?

 

[OldiesCat]

WSAI

Ratings: a little better. Revenue- much improved.

>
> That reminds me.................it seems that someone asked
> if Cincinnati's WSAI is doing any better since they flipped
> from Oldies to Air America Radio. Did we ever get an answer
> to that question?
>

 

[davideduardo]

Re: revenue

> Leaving CBS aside for the moment, I do note the silence from
> the other radio pros concerning before and after revenues
> for stations that have been out of oldies for a meaningful
> time. Perhaps it is not a fair or relevant question
> although declining revenue or poor revenue potential has
> been cited so many times in explaining the need to flip
> oldies stations.

It takes about a year for a format-changed station to hit stride. Since the only billing figures available for all markets are 2004 ones, it will be a long time before the average person knows how thse changes have fared.

Based on 25-54 audience, my assumption is that those in transactional markets (those where buys are strictly by the ratings vs. cost delivery) the majority of stations will be doing much better and soon.

In my experience, just shedding the term "oldies" gets you on lots more buys. The format is perceived as negative by buyers because the demos are so topheavy.

 

[mike704]

Re: WSAI

...and how do you happen to know this?

> Ratings: a little better. Revenue- much improved.
>
> >
> > That reminds me.................it seems that someone
> asked
> > if Cincinnati's WSAI is doing any better since they
> flipped
> > from Oldies to Air America Radio. Did we ever get an
> answer
> > to that question?
> >
>

 

[mike704]

Re: KB

What it mean is if anybody had the credentials to do this format it was KB 1520. Good will is often mentioned when a station is sold so it does mean something. The key would have been to sell direct to the retailer and not depend on agencies. Mom and pop retailers have money to spend and if you create traffic in their business that's all they care about. You have to work harder to get those dollars though.

Enjoyed as in right up until they pulled the plug. I enjoy other formats too. I'm not stuck in the past but I also don't consider music to be disposable either. I admit 60's and 70's music had it's share of exposure more so than some of the great music of the 30's and 40's.

What I am saying is KB just dug itself out of being a closet operation that nobody cared about and now they have put it right back in the closet. You didn't hear anyone say a thing when the Business Talk Radio Format was dropped. This makes me believe the numbers with the oldies format were higher than Arbitron would lead us to believe, but I have no proof because Arbitron is all we have.

Will the station now have local hosts that will talk about local issues? Will it have it's own news department? Nope it will be stuck in the closet again and forgotten. Just as long as it doesn't overshadow their cash cow WBEN.

Thinking you can only do a talk format on AM is a bit narrow don't you think?

All news might be a good format but no one seems to be able to afford that format anymore.

> But you hit the key word: enjoyed (past tense). Just
> because KB was a legend in the 60s and 70s means nothing
> today. If you want to live in the world that "was", that's
> fine. Just don't be surprised when what "is" doesn't line
> up with your expectations.
>
> >
> > KB is not just another radio station. This station
> enjoyed
> > a huge amount of good will. That good will was forever
> > flushed by this last move. There is no way to bring it
> back
> > now and liberal talk isn't going to cut it. For one thing
>
> > they won't give the station a local news staff to give it
> > credibility. The station will be run from a closet and
> > forgotten. To the listener it becomes that station that
> > loser chnges format every couple of years...very sad!
> >
> > How can you sell if you don't believe it what you are
> > selling?
> >
>

 

[OldiesCat]

WSAI

a number of collegues at that cluster in Cincy

> ...and how do you happen to know this?
>
> > Ratings: a little better. Revenue- much improved.
> >
> > >
> > > That reminds me.................it seems that someone
> > asked if Cincinnati's WSAI is doing any better since they
> > flipped from Oldies to Air America Radio. Did we ever get an
> > answer to that question?
> > >
> >
>

 

[Oldbones]

Re: CBS-FM/KB-15/oldies loss suggestion

> Might I suggest that those who have been struck by the loss
> of favorite and favored oldies stations, from New York or
> Buffalo to Chicago, try moving your radio dial to the
> left-hand side of the FM band. There are a number of
> non-commercial stations run by colleges and community groups
> that feature oldies programming full-time, or for whole days

Trouble is, most of the offerings on the non-comm end of the band tend to be way too esoteric for the average listener. Great if you want to hear a bunch of energetic but talentless "garage" bands or a 2 hour spotlight on Reparata & The Delrons, but for someone looking for familiar tunes not so good.

 

[JohnnyMorganWXJX]

Re: CBS-FM/KB-15/oldies loss suggestion

> > Might I suggest that those who have been struck by the
> loss
> > of favorite and favored oldies stations, from New York or
> > Buffalo to Chicago, try moving your radio dial to the
> > left-hand side of the FM band. There are a number of
> > non-commercial stations run by colleges and community
> groups
> > that feature oldies programming full-time, or for whole
> days
>
> Trouble is, most of the offerings on the non-comm end of the
> band tend to be way too esoteric for the average listener.
> Great if you want to hear a bunch of energetic but
> talentless "garage" bands or a 2 hour spotlight on Reparata
> & The Delrons, but for someone looking for familiar tunes
> not so good.
>

It depends on what you have around. Lots of the oldies "blocks" tend to be as you suggest--spotlights, all-doo wop, all-soul, all-garage.

But with the vast majority of college/non-comm stations streaming now, a little look around the block will certainly find a mainstream oldies schedule at a number of the non-comms. Who knows--it may be around the corner on a broadcast signal and you don't even know it.

And even better--the ones that stream sure do have a program sched on their website too, so you can find out exactly when stuff is playing.

I guess my suggestion is to find stations like WSTB's Sunday Oldies Jukebox that play the hits and some lesser hits in a mainstream format and listen to and support them, rather than sitting back going woe is me and waiting for the format to come back.

Once it leaves the commercial FMs, it's not coming back permanently, if at all. And once it leaves the AMs, it's not coming back period. So, search it out--if it's oldies radio you want, you can find it.

 

[peppertree]

Re: CBS-FM/KB-15/oldies loss suggestion

Here are some shows on non-commercial stations. Some of the shows are very good and some are archived.

http://home.rochester.rr.com/wls1/InternetRR.html

>
> It depends on what you have around. Lots of the oldies
> "blocks" tend to be as you suggest--spotlights, all-doo wop,
> all-soul, all-garage.
>
> But with the vast majority of college/non-comm stations
> streaming now, a little look around the block will certainly
> find a mainstream oldies schedule at a number of the
> non-comms. Who knows--it may be around the corner on a
> broadcast signal and you don't even know it.
>
> And even better--the ones that stream sure do have a program
> sched on their website too, so you can find out exactly when
> stuff is playing.
>
> I guess my suggestion is to find stations like WSTB's Sunday
> Oldies Jukebox that play the hits and some lesser hits in a
> mainstream format and listen to and support them, rather
> than sitting back going woe is me and waiting for the format
> to come back.
>
> Once it leaves the commercial FMs, it's not coming back
> permanently, if at all. And once it leaves the AMs, it's
> not coming back period. So, search it out--if it's oldies
> radio you want, you can find it.
>
<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected]</P>

 

[uncamark]

Re: a few other songs on KQLL-FM

> Little Arrows-(Leapy Lee)(?) - a song that SHOULD be
> forgotten and it is

Suddenly, I remember a Monty Python bit about a man with memory problems...

"I'm--Leapy Lee!

Hello, fans, Leapy Lee here. Little arrows/in your window..."

My encounter with that song (OMG) is also recent, but from the wonderfully train-wreck automation of Chippenham Hospital Radio, a UK radio station that broadcasts in a local hospital system and streams through Live365. There's nothing like Everything But the Girl going into Glenn Miller or Ella Fitzgerald (with generic sweepers mixed with home-grown ones, including one using a cut from the PAMS "Happy Difference" package, and what sounds like old Drake-Chenault time announce carts digitized, complete with the American-sounding announcer).

The automation's heard whenever there are no live jocks, which is usually in the evenings U.S. times. At 5 p.m. ET, there's classic BBC comedy, usually either "The Goon Show" (which doesn't stand up that well today, IMHO) or "'Round the Horne" (delightfully off-color--you are amazed with what they got away with on late Saturday afternoons in the mid-60s when that show aired on the old BBC Light Programme, which is now Radio 2).