louisNatl asks, What Will Save the AM Band?

[EbolaMonkey]

What will save the AM Band?

Who says it needs to be saved? Who says it's in trouble?

Here in Dallas-Ft. Worth, there are just a handful of blow-torch AM frequencies. WBAP 820, KLIF 570, KRLD 1080, KSKY 660, and KAAM 770. KTCK 1310 and 1190 AM have less powerful frequencies but offer decent coverage of the core market.

Of the above, WBAP and KTCK are among the highest billing stations in the entire market, counting all AM and FM stations. KRLD usually stays in the top 15 in the ratings. So two of the seven are tigers. One of the seven is pretty healthy and supports a large staff of workers. Two more of the seven, KLIF and KAAM, stay in business despite serious programming problems. Of those two, KLIF supports a reasonably large staff.

The lower power, poorer coverage AM's in DFW are not much different than small FM's and FM rimshots. They provide small niche programming and struggle to attain modest ratings.

If you look at the percentages on FM, are there really proportionally more success stories? And remember that many more FM's have nice coverage of the core market than their AM counterparts.

IBOC doesn't sound good enough in AM stereo to offer a serious challenge to FM music stations. I don't know that any Dallas AM music stations are attempting stereo IBOC. So for the most part, AM remains a news, talk and sports band regardless of the existence of IBOC.

I think programming still determines the success of an AM station. So let's just drop this idea that IBOC can save a band that's not really any worse off proportionally than FM.

 

[KeithE4]

What will save the AM Band?

Who says it needs to be saved? Who says it's in trouble?

Here in Dallas-Ft. Worth, there are just a handful of blow-torch AM frequencies. WBAP 820, KLIF 570, KRLD 1080, KSKY 660, and KAAM 770. KTCK 1310 and 1190 AM have less powerful frequencies but offer decent coverage of the core market.

That's typical of most large markets, where there are maybe 3 or 4 strong AMs - usually 50 kW stations and/or stations at the low end of the dial.

Of the above, WBAP and KTCK are among the highest billing stations in the entire market, counting all AM and FM stations.

WBAP is a 50 kW station, so that explains their success. KTCK is sports, which bills well even though the format's overall ratings are usually relatively weak (normally less than 2, although KTCK is higher than that).

KRLD usually stays in the top 15 in the ratings. So two of the seven are tigers. One of the seven is pretty healthy and supports a large staff of workers. Two more of the seven, KLIF and KAAM, stay in business despite serious programming problems. Of those two, KLIF supports a reasonably large staff.

KRLD is currently 20th in 12+, which doesn't mean a whole lot, but how well does it bill? News/talk caters to middle-age-and-older listeners. WBAP could be in trouble as well in the next 10 years as their audience dies off.

The lower power, poorer coverage AM's in DFW are not much different than small FM's and FM rimshots. They provide small niche programming and struggle to attain modest ratings.

And how many of those "niche" formatted stations will be around in 10 years? Maybe the religious broadcasters, who aren't there to make a profit as their primary goal, but that's about it.

I'm not familiar with the DFW market other than WBAP and KRLD, but Phoenix is in a similar situation: One strong-but-dropping news/talker (the other major station moved to FM), a couple of mediocre-rated-but-well-billing sports stations (including the one replacing the news/talker that moved to FM), an adult-standards station that couldn't survive on its own, and a whole bunch of marginal news/talkers, along with a few Spanish-language and religious stations. Of 22 AM stations in the Phoenix market, I can't see any of them being around 10 years from now. Either they'll move to FM or go silent. Same goes with the rest of the country except for the 50 kW blowtorches (the WGNs and WBAPs of the world - the old 1-A stations).

If you look at the percentages on FM, are there really proportionally more success stories? And remember that many more FM's have nice coverage of the core market than their AM counterparts.

The ratings speak for themselves. FM is still being listened to. AM, increasingly, is not. For now, at least the news/talkers and sports stations bill well, but who else on the band does? And will that be the case a few years from now as the AM listeners die of old age?

IBOC doesn't sound good enough in AM stereo to offer a serious challenge to FM music stations. I don't know that any Dallas AM music stations are attempting stereo IBOC. So for the most part, AM remains a news, talk and sports band regardless of the existence of IBOC.

Eventually, news/talk and sports will move to FM (it's already starting, especially in the NFL, where many teams' flagships have been FM stations for years) - either as an HD2 simulcast or replacing a music format that's headed for satellite or internet.

I think programming still determines the success of an AM station. So let's just drop this idea that IBOC can save a band that's not really any worse off proportionally than FM.

Hybrid IBOC is a loser for the AM band, mainly because mixing modes in a given frequency band is a really bad idea. Just ask any ham operator that's been on the air in the last 80 years. AM and SSB are incompatible. So are AM, CW, and RTTY. AM, in fact, is incompatible with any other mode, but it's probably the best mode of transmission for frequencies below 2 MHz unless everyone switches to SSB (won't happen, of course). How does something like DRM perform with changing propagation? I know it's supposed to be able to handle it, but the real test will be when the sunspot numbers increase, starting next year. And how will the iBiquity system handle sky-wave above 1500 kHz?

But if those frequencies are to be used for digital modes, maybe the band should be split - AM below 1000 and digital above, for example. Eventually, though, full-carrier AM will go the way of the spark gap. Like I said above, it may be the best mode for these frequencies right now, but it's just too inefficient as far as power consumption to be financially viable in the future. The kinks in digital transmission methods will be worked out, and receivers will be available, but mixing it (either IBOC or DRM) with AM just causes headaches.

 

[davideduardo]

Who says it needs to be saved? Who says it's in trouble?

The statistics show it is in trouble.

1. Audience. AM accounts today for less than 20% of all radio listening, and less than 10% in ages under 35.
2. Billings. Almost every significant AM is off in billings, mostly because the audience is ageing each year and advertisers are not buying 55+ audiences on radio.

Here in Dallas-Ft. Worth, there are just a handful of blow-torch AM frequencies. WBAP 820, KLIF 570, KRLD 1080, KSKY 660, and KAAM 770. KTCK 1310 and 1190 AM have less powerful frequencies but offer decent coverage of the core market.

The "Core Market" consists of Colin, Dallas, Denton, Ellis, Hood, Johnson, Kaufman, Parker, Rockwell, Tarrant and Wise counties. Neither KSKY not KAAM cover them day and night, so there are, at best 3 AMs in the market that cover it completely, day and night.

This is pretty good. Some markets, like Washington, DC, have no stations on AM that fully cover the market. Others have 1 or 2. There are really less than 200 viable stations on AM in the top 100 markets and, maybe, about 100 more marginally viable ones... about 300 in total in the markets where about 65% of all Americans live.

Of the above, WBAP and KTCK are among the highest billing stations in the entire market, counting all AM and FM stations.

WBAP is falling in salable ratings. Over time, it will cease to be a billings leader, but this will be slow unless, like many AM talkers and news stations, it moves to FM. The Ticket is another candidate for going to FM, as it uses multiple frequencies to try to cover the metro and does not succeed.

KRLD usually stays in the top 15 in the ratings. So two of the seven are tigers.

WBAP is now 16th in 25-54 sales demos, and KRLD is 24th. It will be very hard to sustain billing levels on either for long unless they get the numbers under 55 up into the top 10 at least.

If you look at the percentages on FM, are there really proportionally more success stories? And remember that many more FM's have nice coverage of the core market than their AM counterparts.

Under age 55, nearly 90% of all radio listening is to FM. In fact, if we take AM out of the picture, radio listening looks much healthier than the pundits claim.

IBOC doesn't sound good enough in AM stereo to offer a serious challenge to FM music stations.

On a good HD radio, an AM offering a unique format sounds good enough to generate ratings. I have heard music on the Radio Disney station in LA that sounds good enough to not be confused with analog AM, and is definitely competitive with FM. Of course, this is in a second generation HD factory installed car radio, which is sensitive, and quite impressive.

I don't know that any Dallas AM music stations are attempting stereo IBOC. So for the most part, AM remains a news, talk and sports band regardless of the existence of IBOC.

That's because there are only really 3 fully viable AMs, and each already has a format they want to keep.

[/quote]I think programming still determines the success of an AM station. So let's just drop this idea that IBOC can save a band that's not really any worse off proportionally than FM.
[/quote]

AM is vastly, enormously and hugely at a disadvantage to FM. It has lost most of its audience, and in the two generations under age 45, does not, basically, exist.

 

[EbolaMonkey]

Neither KSKY not KAAM cover them day and night, so there are, at best 3 AMs in the market that cover it completely, day and night.

IBOC doesn't increase coverage. If anything it decreases it, because a fringe signal just quits on you. Soooo.... how does IBOC help anything here?

On a good HD radio, an AM offering a unique format sounds good enough to generate ratings. I have heard music on the Radio Disney station in LA that sounds good enough to not be confused with analog AM, and is definitely competitive with FM. Of course, this is in a second generation HD factory installed car radio, which is sensitive, and quite impressive.

Is that station in stereo? Or did you notice? An AM music station will need stereo to compete with FM. Maybe in a demo like Disney's where the listeners, little kids, don't know the difference. But imagine modern music of any genre in mono. Ughh.

I could go down your list and disagree, but the above pretty much demonstrate why IBOC can't and won't "save the AM band."

For AM, it will be analog or nothing. If your predictions are true, then "nothing" may be the future for AM radio. But I think AM analog will always find ways to survive. Especially those with the blow torch signals.

WBAP is falling in salable ratings. Over time, it will cease to be a billings leader, but this will be slow unless, like many AM talkers and news stations, it moves to FM.

WBAP is a far more complex situation. And you may actually agree with me when you hear me out. Mark Davis and Rush Limbaugh are falling into the trap of picking party loyalty over conservative ideology. They use tortured logic to find defenses for Bush and the Republicans. Texas conservatives--who are actually pretty Libertarian--don't respect that. Rush will be a success for as long as he's able to crack open a mic, but he's not handling the current political environment well.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

Haven't you heard the IBOC advocates? Here is the way to save the AM band:

(1) Limit bandwidth on the receivers 99.999% of the listeners use. Make it sound like a telephone, even if it is a music format.

(2) Put massive interference on adjoining frequencies, so tuning to their station from another frequency is a pleasant experience.

(3) Jam the small broadcasters off the air so there is less diversity and minority ownership on the AM band. Guy Wire calls it "thinning the herd".

(4) Make stereo IBOC sound like medium bandwidth streaming. People like the "growling" sensation of low bit rate encoding.

(5) Magically make people turn back to AM for music formats - decades after talk and sports has dominated the band. Everybody - including 12 - 30's - automatically thinks of AM when it comes to music formats.

(6) Make sure you charge $200 for an HD radio - people are technocrats and enjoy spending $200 for an AM radio.

(7) Alienate every single existing AM listener by running IBOC at night so there is an ever-present hash no matter where you tune on the band. Unless you are two miles from a 50 kW blowtorch - which MIGHT be able to overpower digital hash coming from skywave.

That is the HD plan to save the AM band. Pretty lame if you ask me.

 

[davideduardo]

IBOC doesn't increase coverage. If anything it decreases it, because a fringe signal just quits on you. Soooo.... how does IBOC help anything here?

There is no way to fix defective AMs. More than half of US FMs are daytimers or do not cover their market. Many covered fine until markets underwent urban sprawl, others were shoehorned in despite dreadful coverage.

Is that station in stereo? Or did you notice?

I believe all HD AMs are stereo.

An AM music station will need stereo to compete with FM.

AM HD is stereo, but the fact is that most FM listening is not in stereo.

Maybe in a demo like Disney's where the listeners, little kids, don't know the difference. But imagine modern music of any genre in mono. Ughh.

Most people don't notice stereo...

I could go down your list and disagree, but the above pretty much demonstrate why IBOC can't and won't "save the AM band."

I did not say HD would save AM: I doubt anything can. But HD could help. Nothing else can.

WBAP is a far more complex situation. And you may actually agree with me when you hear me out. Mark Davis and Rush Limbaugh are falling into the trap of picking party loyalty over conservative ideology. They use tortured logic to find defenses for Bush and the Republicans. Texas conservatives--who are actually pretty Libertarian--don't respect that. Rush will be a success for as long as he's able to crack open a mic, but he's not handling the current political environment well.

AMs from KGO to WGN that do not have Limbaugh are fading in 25-54 and in revenue. Yet traditional talk FMs that have Limbaugh, like the ones in Pittsburgh, New Orleans, etc., are up in 25-54, indicating that ideaology and content have nothing to do with this... its about NOT being on AM.

 

[EbolaMonkey]

Yet traditional talk FMs that have Limbaugh, like the ones in Pittsburgh, New Orleans, etc., are up in 25-54, indicating that ideaology and content have nothing to do with this... its about NOT being on AM.

I was talking about Texans and WBAP. I don't think your example is relevant.

I believe all HD AMs are stereo.

Maybe someone on this board can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure HD AM's are NOT in stereo. It would divide the bandwidth too severely. And if someone has an air check of an AM HD in stereo, please post it. It won't be pretty.

I did not say HD would save AM: I doubt anything can. But HD could help. Nothing else can.

As I said at the beginning of the thread, AM's only problem is programming. Take Howard off of Sirius and put him only on AM's around the country, and at least one AM station in each of those markets is going to be doing just fine.

Most people don't notice stereo.

These younger demos you point to, who aren't aware of AM, DO notice stereo. They have Adobe Audition and other sound editors on their home computers. They understand more about sound editing at age 13 than you probably do at whatever age you've reached. Trust me, they've found the "pan" button.

 

[davideduardo]

I was talking about Texans and WBAP. I don't think your example is relevant.

Radio is radio anywhere in the US. The point is that AM stations, whatever they program, are getting older and older audiences. So, even the formats that do well on AM are getting older and older. Major advertisers do not buy audiences over 55, and that is where most AM listeners are.

Maybe someone on this board can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure HD AM's are NOT in stereo.

I was being sarcastic about "thinking" HD AM stations are stereo. They ALL are stereo.

It would divide the bandwidth too severely. And if someone has an air check of an AM HD in stereo, please post it. It won't be pretty.

It's digital, bits spread over the authorized chunk of specturm. I have been listening to AM HD since I got my HD car radio (with the car attached) several months ago. It sounds absolutely great, with very minimal artifacting, and far greater clarity and spaciousness to the audio than analog mono AM.

As I said at the beginning of the thread, AM's only problem is programming. Take Howard off of Sirius and put him only on AM's around the country, and at least one AM station in each of those markets is going to be doing just fine.

You would never get the 18-34 audience Howard focuses on to listen to AM. And the fact is, the problem of AM lies there... it sounds crappy and nobody under about 45 will listen, no matter what the programming is.

Most people don't notice stereo.

These younger demos you point to, who aren't aware of AM, DO notice stereo. They have Adobe Audition and other sound editors on their home computers. They understand more about sound editing at age 13 than you probably do at whatever age you've reached. Trust me, they've found the "pan" button.

You are making assumptions even I can't follow. I built my first FM stereo station from scratch 40 years ago this year, and did pop and click editing for radio syndication when the only computers were TRESj 80's and S-100 buss devices and hard disks were $50,000 each.

PS. At a couple of hundred dollars a copy, most Americans do not have Audition on their computers.

 

[vsa]

EbolaMonkey wrote: "Maybe someone on this board can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure HD AM's are NOT in stereo.  It would divide the bandwidth too severely.  And if someone has an air check of an AM HD in stereo, please post it.  It won't be pretty."


All HD AMs are fully capable of doing stereo without significant loss of audio quality compared to mono. Using parametric stereo requires a small amount of bandwidth. In other words, going from mono to stereo does not require a doubling of bandwidth to keep the same audio quality if you use parametric stereo which is part of the HDC codec. There are plenty of problems with AM HD radio. Stereo is not one of them.   

 

[SUPERCASTER]

EbolaMonkey wrote: "Maybe someone on this board can confirm this, but I'm pretty sure HD AM's are NOT in stereo. It would divide the bandwidth too severely. And if someone has an air check of an AM HD in stereo, please post it. It won't be pretty."


All HD AMs are fully capable of doing stereo without significant loss of audio quality compared to mono. Using parametric stereo requires a small amount of bandwidth. In other words, going from mono to stereo does not require a doubling of bandwidth to keep the same audio quality if you use parametric stereo which is part of the HDC codec. There are plenty of problems with AM HD radio. Stereo is not one of them.

I disagree. Stereo HD AM coverage is much less then even the mono HD AM coverage!

Another fact about AM IBOC that seems to be uncommon knowledge is that the hybrid system has two audio streams, a 20 kilobits-per-second "core" stream and a 16 kbps "enhanced" stream. Stereo audio is only available when the less-robust enhanced stream kicks in. When talking about the digital coverage they're obtaining, AM IBOC enthusiasts invariably neglect to mention whether they're achieving stereo audio.

Source:
http://www.rwonline.com/pages/s.0044/t.4050.html

 

[hipporadio]

r. bruce GETS IT!

Haven't you heard the IBOC advocates? Here is the way to save the AM band:

(1) Limit bandwidth on the receivers 99.999% of the listeners use. Make it sound like a telephone, even if it is a music format.

(2) Put massive interference on adjoining frequencies, so tuning to their station from another frequency is a pleasant experience.

(3) Jam the small broadcasters off the air so there is less diversity and minority ownership on the AM band. Guy Wire calls it "thinning the herd".

(4) Make stereo IBOC sound like medium bandwidth streaming. People like the "growling" sensation of low bit rate encoding.

(5) Magically make people turn back to AM for music formats - decades after talk and sports has dominated the band. Everybody - including 12 - 30's - automatically thinks of AM when it comes to music formats.

(6) Make sure you charge $200 for an HD radio - people are technocrats and enjoy spending $200 for an AM radio.

(7) Alienate every single existing AM listener by running IBOC at night so there is an ever-present hash no matter where you tune on the band. Unless you are two miles from a 50 kW blowtorch - which MIGHT be able to overpower digital hash coming from skywave.

That is the HD plan to save the AM band. Pretty lame if you ask me.

This is the VERY BEST [albeit cynical] summation of AM IBOC I have read to date. GREAT JOB, rbc! He has made no point or analogy that even comes close to the border with fiction. The “HD” apologists will charge r.bruce with sarcasm – a more-accurate description is “wit”... There IS a fundamental difference... Those mesmerized by the AM IBOC fantasy need to take a buzz-break – grab their dictionary – and discover the difference.

 

[hipporadio]

Now my six-cents on “Saving AM Radio”...

Let it pass into destiny with “dignity” [if need-be]... Hasn’t it been maligned enough by FCC mismanagement, poor “nickel-quality” receiver design, and a sad AM-Stereo experiment? Does it deserve additional torture from IBOC? Nearly all forms of contemporary technology will eventually reach a point of diminishing returns and transcend into history. “Augmentation” rarely succeeds in salvaging a technical original... i.e. “DCC” – the Digital Compact Cassette; “S-VHS” – the “super version” of the once-popular home video medium; and “SACD” – the quickly-stunted enhancement for Compact Disc audio. Many will add the vinyl phonograph recording to this list, but wait – does it not manage a demure and dedicated following for its esoteric qualities? Possibly, analog AM radio might achieve the same. Despite the general “amusement” regarding its [real world] sonic deficiencies, it offers a few technical advantages that may-well allow for its continuance and are at least as relevant as the qualities that benefit the analog vinyl LP.

[1] AM radio, from a coverage standpoint alone, is a bonafide “national resource” - especially in this era of security concern. If indeed, the “herd is thinned” [and it should be in large markets where urban sprawl has neutered the relevance of a lower-powered AM above 1200kHz and FM assignments are at the max]; widespread reliable coverage could return to the broader landscape.

[2] If you accept the reality that large corporate radio has figuratively raped the FM Table of Assignments with the copasetic “blessing” of the Bush Administration FCC and removed longstanding fulltime reliable FM service from many small communities – you may rightfully conclude that those remaining local AM stations represent the ONLY community-based radio service.

[3] And while this industry is so-casually disposed to “change the rules” [for their own self-interest and benefit] – why not consider the same for a genuine public interest and revisit the possibility of a new “band plan” – a modern-day version of the NARBA so to speak. The misguided priorities of recent years coupled with inevitable technical progression would certainly warrant such. Within such an initiative, many options might be fairly-weighed and implemented... ‘Just make sure the corporate hogs remain distracted out back – on a virtual three-hour lunch at their food-trough.

[4] If you accept the figure that a mere ten-percent of a non-grey public remains in AM listenership; then what public interest would be served by maintaining the “status quo” of those millions of $20 radios that found their way from the isles at WalMart into homes that never discovered the AM band switch? Why not reorganize and split the band into seperate analog and digital-only transmission? ...Enhanced analog service for smaller communities [where expensive “HD” radios remain far from a critical sales mass] and “digital done-right” in a separate area.

But, alas... All this sounds much too logical for the likes of corporate radio and their coffee-breaking bedfellows at the FCC... IBOC seems so much simpler and rational :

 

[EbolaMonkey]

You would never get the 18-34 audience Howard focuses on to listen to AM. And the fact is, the problem of AM lies there... it sounds crappy and nobody under about 45 will listen, no matter what the programming is.

That's one of the most ridiculous claims you've ever posted. I mentioned KTCK Dallas earlier. Not a blow torch. But they are doing fine in that demo.

Radio is radio anywhere in the US.

If that were true, then Rush's rises and falls in ratings would mirror each other on every one of his affiliates across the country. But some rise while others fall. The politics of a given listenership affect his success in a given market. Admit it, the broader political climate is affecting WBAP.

Hope you saw this:

Another fact about AM IBOC that seems to be uncommon knowledge is that the hybrid system has two audio streams, a 20 kilobits-per-second "core" stream and a 16 kbps "enhanced" stream. Stereo audio is only available when the less-robust enhanced stream kicks in. When talking about the digital coverage they're obtaining, AM IBOC enthusiasts invariably neglect to mention whether they're achieving stereo audio.

KAAM isn't in IBOC stereo. I don't know about 620 Disney, but I doubt it. It's a rimshot and the stereo wouldn't make it to Dallas.

I wonder if you've ever heard AM IBOC in stereo. There's a decent chance you've been listening to mono.

PS. At a couple of hundred dollars a copy, most Americans do not have Audition on their computers.

Teenagers pirate copies. And if you look at my post, I wrote that kids get their hands on Adobe Audition and other sound editors.

And their music--CHR, Modern Rock, Hip Hop--is absolutely rich with sounds bouncing from one stereo channel to the other. You kid yourself if you don't think they notice.

 

[davideduardo]

That's one of the most ridiculous claims you've ever posted. I mentioned KTCK Dallas earlier. Not a blow torch. But they are doing fine in that demo.

The are not even top 10 in that demo... they wander around at about 15th in 18-34. And even there they are a rare exception, as most AM sports talkers do not even do that well.

If that were true, then Rush's rises and falls in ratings would mirror each other on every one of his affiliates across the country.

Aside from the normal statistical range stations can be in and still be considered "flat," the changes in ratings pretty much run consistently across the country. Remember, even a big station with a 12.4 that goes to an 11.8 has actually not changed at all and is within th emargin of error.

But some rise while others fall.

Yep, that is the side effect of using a poll rather than a census. None moves very seriously, however, and nearly all move in synchronized locckstep with each other in the core 45+ or 45-64 demo the show appeals to in the specific daypart that Rush is on.

The politics of a given listenership affect his success in a given market. Admit it, the broader political climate is affecting WBAP.

WBAP has had a 3.5, a 3.1 a 3.9 and a 4.1 in the last year. You can't say people's politics change every 90 days. The fact is that nearly all non-sports-driven n/t stations have considerable up and down movement based on how much interesting news there is as well as the overall performance of all the hosts, not just one three hour show. Add in the statistical wobble and you can have some rather radical swings on thse critters... particularly since the 45+ sample must be quite consistent to achieve stability.

KAAM isn't in IBOC stereo. I don't know about 620 Disney, but I doubt it. It's a rimshot and the stereo wouldn't make it to Dallas.

Just like FM stereo, the AM stereo goes as far as it can, then falls to mono. The system is based on being stereo.

I wonder if you've ever heard AM IBOC in stereo.

We operate 10 of them. One is a few feet down the hall from me.

There's a decent chance you've been listening to mono.

It is easy to tell stereo in talk, particulary when there are guests or several hosts, due to the spatial differentiation between l and r.

Teenagers pirate copies.

Ah, that is a marvelous thing to base an assumption on. At my next music test I am going to add a question about how many people have audio software and edit or create mixes. It will be for a 12-34 based station in a top 10 market, too, witha a cume of over a million.

]

 

[davideduardo]

And their music--CHR, Modern Rock, Hip Hop--is absolutely rich with sounds bouncing from one stereo channel to the other. You kid yourself if you don't think they notice.

I wonder if you are aware that, in the last book, in 18-34, 30.9% or very close to one out of every three Dallas listeners is not listening to any of those formats or styles? They are listening to a Spanish language station, in fact. And, within the other 6%, the share listening to country is greater than the share listening to alternative. I point this out because you have an obvious misconception of who gets what and in what ages in the ratings, in it may help you to see a touch of reality.

 

[rwagoner]

People notice stereo. One day when KDIS/Los Angeles was not coming in well with HD, it would only go to mono, and the person I aksed to listen said it sounded flat. Later when reception was better and stereo returned, he thought it sounded great.

 

[EbolaMonkey]

I wonder if you are aware that, in the last book, in 18-34, 30.9% or very close to one out of every three Dallas listeners is not listening to any of those formats or styles? They are listening to a Spanish language station, in fact. And, within the other 6%, the share listening to country is greater than the share listening to alternative. I point this out because you have an obvious misconception of who gets what and in what ages in the ratings, in it may help you to see a touch of reality.

So nearly 70 percent of that demo is listening to eactly what I said they listen to. Looks like I'm spot on. Regardless, 70 percent of young listeners are listening to music genres that push the stereo field to its max. I rest my case.

The are not even top 10 in that demo... they wander around at about 15th in 18-34.

18-34 Men? Or 18-34 people.

We operate 10 of them. One is a few feet down the hall from me.

Great. You should be able to get us an aircheck. While you're at it, make it an AM IBOC music station--in stereo. I'll keep an open mind (and ear), and prepare to be dazzled by the audio. And aircheck it from an IBOC radio--not the pgm out on the control board...

 

[EbolaMonkey]

Teenagers pirate copies.

Ah, that is a marvelous thing to base an assumption on.

They pirate software, and they use any number of editors besides Audition. Do you doubt this?

 

[davideduardo]

They pirate software, and they use any number of editors besides Audition. Do you doubt this?

There are many freeware audio editors, so your insistence that most teens are criminals is exaggerated. In fact, one of the least likely pirated apps is Audition as it requires a key, and activation, and can deactivate itself via any attempt to update a pirate copy.

But, beyond that, I believe you exaggerate the number of people who do mixes or mashes or edits on songs. It is a small percentage. Most just download songs or copy from friends, whether legal or not, and listen to them.

 

[davideduardo]

So nearly 70 percent of that demo is listening to eactly what I said they listen to. Looks like I'm spot on. Regardless, 70 percent of young listeners are listening to music genres that push the stereo field to its max. I rest my case.

Not really. You mentioned hiphop, CHR and modern rock first. The fact is, that those genres actually are only aobout half the listening by 18-34's. As stated, a third is to Hispanic music of several kinds, and there is a bunch of country listening as well as to other rock genres and, among the female half, a large amount of AC and rhythmic listening.

I never said stereo was unimportant, but it is nowhere nearly as critical as you feel; in-car listening with noise levels in the 60 to 70 db range pretty much masks stereo, and most receivers sold today are not stereo to begin with.

[/quote]18-34 Men? Or 18-34 people.[/quote]

18-34 Persons. When you see that the station is 9th on AQH men in 18-34, but 1st in 35-44 and 35-54, you can see that what I said about the limited appeal of AM in the younger demos is true.

Great. You should be able to get us an aircheck. While you're at it, make it an AM IBOC music station--in stereo.

We do not have any HD music stations. Our AMs, with two exceptions, are talk and information because of the demo AM attracts; all the major FMs we have, including the 7 50-kw ones, are HD and they have stereo facilities all the way through.

I'll keep an open mind (and ear), and prepare to be dazzled by the audio. And aircheck it from an IBOC radio--not the pgm out on the control board...

"Control board" ???? I guess you do not spend much time in a radio station, if you have ever been in one.

If you want to sample HD AM and check the stereo and so on, buy a radio and listen. Any recording is going to be colored by the codec it is converted to by recording in a portable format. Obviously, if you are so anxious to hear HD, it means you have never heard it and have no idea how nice it sounds, AM or FM.