LYNN CULLEN IS RETURNING TO THE AIRWAVES

[Pratte4Life]

I agree with what you say- but I think you'll also agree with me that if radio is to grow (or anything will grow, really) it will be important to think outside the box for sales.

And I just happen to think that if I did own an urban talk station I could be successful by stepping outside of the numbers and targeting my audience- which has made me as successful in overall numbers as KQV, WEAE, etc.

Do you know who I think should pound on the door and advertise on WAMO-AM? The mayoral candidates.

It was largely stated that what won Luke Ravenstahl reelection were black voters. Shadyside and Sq. Hill went for Mark DeSantis, more working class neighborhoods went Ravenstahl, and neighborhoods like East Liberty, Homewood, The Hill, Allentown, etc. were what put Ravenstahl on top.

So it would behoove Ravenstahl to continue to cater to this audience- which would best be reached through WAMO-AM- with ads stating "I'm still your man."

Carmen Robinson could relate her roots, as she lives in these sort of neighborhoods.

Patrick Dowd could relate what he would do for such neighborhoods.

It's no secret the winner of the Democratic primary (as well as November election) will have to get these votes.

I would think WAMO-AM would reach them better than any other radio station in the market and for an economical price.

 

[talkjim]

Ms. Music,

I'm happy to hear that your mother will be enjoying Lynn, but she may have some younger company. It's well-documented that on average around this nation, progressive-leaning talk skews about ten years younger than the right-wing redneck variety. That's part of the reason Randi Rhodes topped Sean Hannity in 25-54 men, (ARB, AQH) during her final winter book in 2006 when WLIB/New York was progressive talk

Now of course, how well Lynn does, especially initially, is dependent on the overall packaging of WAMO. I'm not in Pittsburgh, and don't know what it sounds like now, or what it will sound like in the future. But there could be some potential here. Lynn has some market equity--even more than Joe Stalin.

 

[Parttimer]

How are Randi Rhodes and WLIB doing now?

 

[talkjim]

"How are Randi Rhodes and WLIB doing now?"

A clever but ultimately futile and desperate attempt to minimize Randi's success in New York. Yes, there has been some volatility in the progressive talk syndication business. But while this volatility has been about personality conflicts, physical illness (in the case of Nova M's Shelly Drobny), and probably about some financial undercapitalization, one thing it hasn't been about is ratings, which have been quite good for Randi in most of her markets.

I've periodically mentioned Randi's victory over Sean in New York in the winter 2006 ARB (25-54 men), and I admit that I do it in part to see what reactions develop--and those reactions say a lot about the psychology of certain people who post here--especially posters of the right-wing persuasion. They know they can't deny reality, but it bugs the hell out of them because it doesn't fit into their "right wing radio always wins" mindset. So they bob, weave, try to change the subject, and do everything except acknowlege what was an impressive victory for progressive talk. Think about it. Randi on 10,000 watt WLIB at 1160 versus Sean on 50,000 watt WABC. Hannity with billboards all over the tri-state area, a nightly hour on Fox, and even with all these advantages, Randi aced him.

Suck it up, right wing.

 

[Parttimer]

Is it still on the air? That's a yes-or-no question.

I don't think Liberal talk has shown that it is a sustainable, profitable business at this point. If RR's success is supposed to be the indicator that somehow Air America's less than spectacular results, and the problems of RR's syndicator Nova M are all aberrations I'm sorry, I just don't see it.

I actually would listen to Randi from time to time on WJNO in West Palm Beach when she was a local. I found her to be pretty entertaining doing a more general local show. Then later I had to share an office with a guy who streamed Air America all day on his computer, and after Al Franken made me want to shoot myself and/or go postal on a daily basis, her show was just fingernails on a chalkboard. Maybe it's Franken's fault, I don't know.

And as far as it goes, while I am a conservative personally, I rarely listen to Rush or Hannity, I'm usually listening to ESPN Radio or Jim Rome, so I have no idealogical axe to grind. Rhodes doesn't make me nervous, I just don't like the show from a business or entertainment point of view.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Liberal talk seems to be programmed like old school progressive rock stations. They act as if the listener has above average intelligence. Conservative talk sounds like the high intensity radio of early sixties pre-Drake TOP 40. Rush was in the format and a peer of "Wild Child" Kemp. WABC is still a "screamer". Just no music but the same phrenetic sound.

Now explain how I'm totally wrong

 

[talkjim]

"Liberal talk seems to be programmed like old school progressive rock stations. They act as if the listener has above average intelligence. Conservative talk sounds like the high intensity radio of early sixties pre-Drake TOP 40. Rush was in the format and a peer of "Wild Child" Kemp. WABC is still a "screamer". Just no music but the same phrenetic sound.

Now explain how I'm totally wrong"

I won't explain how you are totally wrong, Ms. Musicradio, because you've pretty much nailed it. I would, however, say that all talkradio, by necessity, is livelier than the mood of early progressive rock (but then again no one smokes as much dope now). It's interesting that both Randi and Thom Hartmann have backgrounds as jocks in the early FM rock era-Randi was at WAPP in New York during its brief moment in the sun in the early 80s.

Now for some other business.

"Is it still on the air? That's a yes-or-no question."

Parttimer, correct me if I'm wrong, but I know of no law that says I or anyone else has to answer your question of the moment, especially when the answer is already well known, and especially when it's not relevant to the topic of discussion, which is the commercial viability of progressive talk. But I'll be a sport and answer it.

Randi, as you well know, is not on the air right now, because of a contract dispute with her syndicator. She isn't the first talented air personality to be in such a situation and she surely won't be the last. And this, again, has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Which is why I didn't bother with your question initially.

"I don't think Liberal talk has shown that it is a sustainable, profitable business at this point. If RR's success is supposed to be the indicator that somehow Air America's less than spectacular results, and the problems of RR's syndicator Nova M are all aberrations I'm sorry, I just don't see it."

This is America, Parttimer, and you can THINK whatever you like, but the truth and your opinion are two different commodities. There have been numerous successes for progressive talk that go unacknowledged by people like yourself, who don't wish to see what is plainly in front of them. Randi's win over Sean in New York is just one example. The all-progressive KPOJ in Portland, as of the winter 2007 ARB was the only one of six talk stations in that market to go top ten, 25-54. In Miami, Nicole Sandler's morning show on CC's WINZ topped sister conservative WIOD in morning drive in the target demo of 25-54 men, and was right behind WIOD in 25-54 adults.

It's also interesting that you mention Air America and the now-defunct Nova M, but you don't mention the most successful progressive talk syndicator of all--Dial Global--home of Ed Schultz, Stephanie Miller, Bill Press, and now Thom Hartmann--all long-running shows. Schultz, Miller and Hartmann have all rolled up ratings success in major markets. Press does a morning drive show, so his gig is a bit tougher.

And the list goes on and on.

Notice, Parttimer, I'm not spewing OPINIONS here--these are hard, cold FACTS--INCONVENIENT facts as far as most of this industry is concerned.

 

[Parttimer]

I'm really not trying to make you mad... honest.... but you started out with an example of one book on one station 4 years ago and they're gone now. It reinforces my point that Lynn Cullen's two hours on Obscure 860 isn't going to make much of a change in Pittsburgh's radio landscape.

That's all. Really.

 

[talkjim]

"I'm really not trying to make you mad... honest.... but you started out with an example of one book on one station 4 years ago and they're gone now. It reinforces my point that Lynn Cullen's two hours on Obscure 860 isn't going to make much of a change in Pittsburgh's radio landscape.

That's all. Really."

Arguing with you is the equivalent of dueling with an unarmed man, Parttimer. I've bothered to do some research and cite facts, and your only response is a bunch of sniping and unsubstantiated opinion. But in a way, I'm glad we're going through this, because your way of thinking is not all that different from that of many radio executives, who, even with lots of money at stake, make a lot of half-baked assumptions about what will and won't work in terms of programming.

The fact that Air America is gone from WLIB in New York reinforces nothing about Lynn Cullen's chances for success in Pittsburgh, and by the way she's already had some success, which is why WAMO hired her in the first place.

And Air America is only off of WLIB because WLIB's ownership has an agenda that is about things other than money and ratings--that's clear. They had an afternoon show that performed well over several books, and topped Sean Hannity in men 25-54 in the winter of 2006. Nonetheless, the management of WLIB, which had a tradition of African-American programming, went back to what they were used to doing. That's certainly their privilege, but, even though you try to suggest otherwise, it in no way means that Randi failed, and WLIB today is not getting the ratings that Randi and Air America were getting.

And that, as the late Paul Harvey would say, is the rest of the story. Have a nice day.

 

[Parttimer]

The fact that Air America is gone from WLIB in New York reinforces nothing about Lynn Cullen's chances for success in Pittsburgh, and by the way she's already had some success, which is why WAMO hired her in the first place.

Had. Past tense. 1360 didn't make money so they went with brokered programming.

WAMO was running robo-jocked Urban AC programming, Lynn talked them into giving her a shot as a lead-in to Bev Smith. I'm sure their investment is fairly minimal at this point, but I give her credit for going out and making it happen.

And Air America is only off of WLIB because WLIB's ownership has an agenda that is about things other than money and ratings--that's clear. They had an afternoon show that performed well over several books, and topped Sean Hannity in men 25-54 in the winter of 2006. Nonetheless, the management of WLIB, which had a tradition of African-American programming, went back to what they were used to doing. That's certainly their privilege, but, even though you try to suggest otherwise, it in no way means that Randi failed, and WLIB today is not getting the ratings that Randi and Air America were getting.

Gee, maybe WLIB went back to their "tradition of African-American programming" because they couldn't sell liberal talk even with those fabulous ratings? No, being good liberals I'm sure they just felt it was their civic duty to change formats.

You definitely are a talk show host, though.... your side is "facts" and "the truth" and mine is opinion. Half-baked at that.

And please get the Paul Harvey tag line right if you're going to use it. Show some respect.

Good DAY.

 

[talkjim]

"Gee, maybe WLIB went back to their "tradition of African-American programming" because they couldn't sell liberal talk even with those fabulous ratings? No, being good liberals I'm sure they just felt it was their civic duty to change formats. "

I know a little about what happened during those days at WLIB and you are the first to suggest that the problem was a failure to sell the ratings. But of course, I wouldn't expect you to know for sure because you don't bother to do any fact-checking or research--you just opinionate right? And you mock those who bother to do some homework.

But just for the hell of it, let's say you are right for once, Parttimer. Maybe they couldn't sell it. That still wouldn't change the fact that Randi Rhodes topped Sean Hannity, men, 25-54, in the nation's largest market. And it might also suggest that the problem was with the sales staff. It certainly wasn't with the talent.

 

[Parttimer]

This is an internet message board. I'm not really journalistically obligated to do fact-checking.

And frankly I'm just doing this to irritate you at this point. It's kinda fun.

I wouldn't doubt that there could have been problems with the sales staff and/or the station's client base didn't care for the talk programming (and the staff wouldn't go and look for new clients). I've also seen plenty of instances where station owners reversed field on a format because they personally didn't like it. All possible.

As I said, I used to listen to Randi in Florida on occasion. I'm surprised that the demo where she had success was men, because most of her WJNO callers were lovely Jewish grandmas from the Palm Beaches.

A decent liberal talent on a decent signal SHOULD get numbers in liberal towns like NY and Portland. That success remains the exception rather than the rule. We'll agree to disagree on the cause.

 

[talkjim]

"This is an internet message board. I'm not really journalistically obligated to do fact-checking."

Finally, after about 20 posts from you, you admit the obvious. I commend you for your honesty, Parttimer. But keep in mind that there is nothing intrinsic about an internet message board that prevents someone from checking facts and even bothering to learn something before they post. There's also no rule here about not predicting the failure of a well-known local personality before she even starts a new gig, but some people of good judgement might choose to avoid that kind of activity anyway.

"A decent liberal talent on a decent signal SHOULD get numbers in liberal towns like NY and Portland. That success remains the exception rather than the rule. We'll agree to disagree on the cause."

Oh so now that I've demonstrated that there have been progressive talk successes, it's no big deal--at least in New York and Portland. You can add a few successes to that list Parttimer--get out your notebook--Miami, San Francisco, Denver/Boulder, Seattle, Chicago, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Albany (New York), Providence, and Boston--all markets where progressives have scored respectably in recent years. And I have the data that proves it. But, wait, silly me--you don't DO data...I almost forgot...sorrrrrrryyyyyy!

 

[Parttimer]

Yes, I agree there are a few. Too few for it to be viable.

I'd be willing to bet that at least some of those "successes" were short blips and the stations have moved on now or will soon. For instance, WINZ in Miami will be sports again as soon as the 90-day notice to the current ESPN affiliates has run its course.

If you read this board often enough you'll find I am pretty well-informed. You happen to be really deep on this particular format and that's fine. I still think you're spinning this to be more success than is really there because you have an agenda as someone who probably works in the format. Maybe a consultant or a host on one of these very "successful" stations.

 

[talkjim]

This will sound critical Parttimer, but it's really honestly meant to be constructive as well. A big difference between you and I is that I come on this board armed with some facts and everything with you is speculation and guesses. Look back on your posts and you'll see how many times you use the words "I think", "maybe", and my personal favorite--"I'd be willing to bet". And then I use up bandwidth correcting your "ass-umptions". And by the way, if you are "pretty well informed", I have yet to see evidence of it. Which is why this is my final post on this subject, unless you show enough interest to cut with the maybes and start accumulating some actual knowledge.

Let's take a look at your latest master strokes. You set them up--I take them down.

First of all, contrary to your incorrect speculation, I'm not a consultant--never have been, am not now, have no plans to be. I have successfully hosted talk in the past, and continue to do fill-ins, but my primary income is from radio network news. My only real motivation in these posts is that as an American citizen, I am sickened by what passes for rational political discourse on this nation's airwaves. I am an advocate for sane voices.

"Yes, I agree there are a few. Too few for it to be viable."--This of course was a reference to the number of successful progressive stations. I don't know what your definition of "viable" is, but I can assure you that progressive talk has become a quite viable livelihood for Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Tom Hartmann, Bill Press, Randi Rhodes, Rachel Maddow, Mike Malloy and a number of others. You will not see these people out cutting grass or tending bar to supplement their incomes.

"I'd be willing to bet that at least some of those "successes" were short blips and the stations have moved on now or will soon. For instance, WINZ in Miami will be sports again as soon as the 90-day notice to the current ESPN affiliates has run its course."

So what? As you might have noticed if you've been following the nation's economic news, inexplicable executive decisions are made on a regular basis. Here's what I know for certain: At the time its local morning show was canceled, WINZ was building 25-54 ratings, and beat its own sister station, WIOD, which is traditionally the dominant talk station in Miami, in the target demo (25-54 men, mornings). I was not privy to any specific sales information, but I do recall a trade interview with a former PD of WINZ who talked at some length about sales success there.

Here's something else I know Parttimer--no station that has switched from progressive talk has done better with ANYTHING ELSE!!!

Happy hunting.

 

[Parttimer]

"Yes, I agree there are a few. Too few for it to be viable."--This of course was a reference to the number of successful progressive stations. I don't know what your definition of "viable" is, but I can assure you that progressive talk has become a quite viable livelihood for Stephanie Miller, Ed Schultz, Tom Hartmann, Bill Press, Randi Rhodes, Rachel Maddow, Mike Malloy and a number of others. You will not see these people out cutting grass or tending bar to supplement their incomes.

They are syndicated hosts. There are plenty of second tier syndicated hosts in various genres who make a nice living filling time on non-entity stations. Dave Ramsey comes to mind.

"I'd be willing to bet that at least some of those "successes" were short blips and the stations have moved on now or will soon. For instance, WINZ in Miami will be sports again as soon as the 90-day notice to the current ESPN affiliates has run its course."

So what?

That's all you've got? You know I'm right. You know you're spinning this as hard as you can. (And by the way I believe I cited some facts there regarding WINZ).

You're willing in the case of Rhodes on WLIB to classify one book on one station, that changed format anyway, as success. As I said before, we agree to disagree.

 

[MsMusicRadio]

Whoa! Did somebody say Jewish Grandmas? I'm right here. Two grandkids, Jewish, and Liberal Left since the Sixties? But I never listen to any talk radio and I checked that fact before I posted it. Gimme those hot oldies on rockin 'JAS anytime. And I checked that fact too. 'JAS rocks!

 

[Parttimer]

Oh so now that I've demonstrated that there have been progressive talk successes, it's no big deal--at least in New York and Portland. You can add a few successes to that list Parttimer--get out your notebook--Miami, San Francisco, Denver/Boulder, Seattle, Chicago, Minneapolis/St. Paul, Albany (New York), Providence, and Boston--all markets where progressives have scored respectably in recent years. And I have the data that proves it. But, wait, silly me--you don't DO data...I almost forgot...sorrrrrrryyyyyy!

OK... Miami changing formats to sports (but we already got a "So what" on that one....).

Chicago... WCPT-AM 0.2.... WCPT-FM 0.2.... not sure if the other two rimshot FM's they simulcast on show...

I'll give you Portland.... a 4.3 with Hartmann, Schultz, all the syndicated libs...

On another board you classified KGO/San Fran as a progressive talker.... their lineup includes a lawyer call-in show, Dr. Dean Edell, Gil Gross, and an afternoon news block. Am I missing something here? Where's the progressive content? (And my tone here is a legitimate question, not in-your-face... if there's a progressive host somewhere in there let us know who that is...).

Same goes for KIRO Seattle. They're very highly rated with all local hosts. I obviously have never heard them but from their website they all look like just good, solid general interest local talk shows (the kind KDKA would be well-served to find). Again, if you can add insight please do.

 

[talkjim]

Parttimer, thanks for the invite, but as I said above, this has gone on long enough--I've brought forward much of what I know, and the rest, I'll save for later. Babble on if you like.

 

[Parttimer]

Again you confirm that I'm right.