Make radio strong again

[Kelly A]

The station I was listening to today in the car is one of two 1000-watt AMs that both have translators and tend to use the translator frequency when describing themselves. I heard a commercial saying they need people who are not necessarily experienced to help businesses reach their goals. And there seem to be plenty of businesses advertising. One of the AMs used to have Rush Limbaugh and I believe still has syndicated talk outside of the morning show. The other played a doo-wop song a few minutes ago and while they do venture into the 80s from time to time, most of the songs are from the 60s and 70s.

Some AM stations, especially if playing do-wop, cater to a senior audience. Nothing wrong with that, but those syndicated shows only allow a few breaks for local stations. They call that 'barter'. In other words, just because you're hearing spots, doesn't mean those are spots for local businesses and the station is seeing that revenue.

 

[Kelly A]

I guess the goal is to figure out how to attract more young ears. It seems like stations are trying to catch some of the young audience on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok. However, it appears that many stations use Facebook only to draw listeners back to their website. I understand that this is done to make money, but does that method actually work when most posts get 1 or 2 likes (or even no interaction), when the station has over 100,000 followers? Would it better to use social media such as Facebook for fun, engagement and to basically spread the word about your station?

Many of those likes or connections could be auto-generated by foreign bots. It's pretty common these days. The bots like and then flag the page to keep an eye on what other humans are following on that site. Then the bots come along and scrape (collect) any information potentially human followers leave behind, like their contact info. My bet is the number of human followers is less than 1/10th of what Facebook is indicating. Meta is also known to generate extra traffic just to keep, in this case, the station, engaged and not discouraged.
Also, keep in mind that younger people aren't frequent Facebook users anymore. What's left behind are Grandma and parents.
Instagram is still pretty active by 16+, but requires probably more updates than any radio station is willing to do each day.

Going back to the radio station I used to work for, we decided to use Facebook for fun posts, some giveaways and station events, promotions, Facebook live, etc. I just checked and even though the town where the radio station is located has just over 9,000 people, the Facebook page now has 128,000 followers.

Again, that's a sure sign of bots.

In the past week, there are multiple posts that have went viral (over 15k likes) and one even reached 29k likes. Those are artist related posts. Station events/promotions will sometimes reach a few hundred to a few thousand likes, along with hundreds of comments.

It would be interesting to see if those comments look like a human wrote them. Another use of AI is generating comments based on keywords in the script.

The station does stream and I honestly don't think that most Facebook followers have ever listened to the station. However, I guess it’s just another tool.

An expensive tool too! Streaming on a small market station is a complete money loser. Unless the station isn't paying their streaming royalty fees. In that case, God help them when Sound Exchange catches up with them with penalties tacked on. They'll be lucky to have enough cash to fill their gas tank to drive out of town.

Besides being active on social media, any other ideas on how to capture young people’s ears? 🤔

Play unedited popular music, then promote you play unedited tracks on TikTok and Instagram. Talk about sex, expensive brands, and drugs, then tell Instagram and TikTok users your station talks about sex, drugs and expensive brands.

 

[vchimpanzee]

Some AM stations, especially if playing do-wop, cater to a senior audience. Nothing wrong with that, but those syndicated shows only allow a few breaks for local stations. They call that 'barter'. In other words, just because you're hearing spots, doesn't mean those are spots for local businesses and the station is seeing that revenue.

The syndicated shows are talk shows. The music on the other station is local. And yes, those businesses are local.

 

[Kelly A]

The syndicated shows are talk shows. The music on the other station is local. And yes, those businesses are local.

But just because they have some commercials on the local programming, doesn't mean those spots aren't $.50 each, or Lord forbid, trade.

 

[chriscervantez]

Keep in mind, however, that small market buys like that are often dependent on the relationship with the owner. When he sells, retires, dies, or otherwise gets out, many, if not most, of those clients will drop.

I’ve seen that happen at my hometown radio stations. The previous owner sold to the sales manager, who became GM. The new owner had other successful businesses, which weren’t in radio. He didn’t know what he was doing and from what I heard, sales dropped from just over $82k/month at their peak to $19k/last year. There’s no staff and I think his son is engineering, but he’s very young without much experience. I think they overlooked licensing for an FM translator for the AM and were operating it without a license for about 10 years. They recently caught this as they had messaging directing listeners to another licensed translator of theirs at the end of May.

On the other hand, the friend with the successful radio station…he and I met at my hometown starions. The GM from my hometown station eventually moved to the present station, became GM and part owner and tapped my friend to program the stations. My friend then tapped me to come and help. They’re still in a good spot, where the owner and my friend have a transition plan in place, where my friend will take over. My friend is the one who has most of the good relationships, so I hope that continues for a while. But again, you never know what curveballs this industry will throw at you. I believe they’re smart and don’t think anything for granted, but I’m happy that they’re doing extremely well for now.

I look at the small town near my grandparents' old house, and it looks pretty sad. I can remember being a kid, stopping by the Rexall Drug and getting a soda at the soda fountain.

The town my friends stations (6kw FM an AM and 250 watt FM translator) operates in is just over 9,000 people. There’s a town that borders it with maybe another thousand. However this town has a lot of industry, as 2 interstates cross through and 2 railroad lines. They always have a lot of interstate traffic stopping through, because there are a few big truck stops/travel plazas. They also have invested in high speed fiber, which brought Allstate’s data center in to town maybe 15 years ago or so. Their downtown is vibrant and they’re investing money to put the downtown (3 block area) power lines underground. They have a city owned electric utility, so this probably saves on costs. They are also introducing a bus route in hopes to get people from the travel places into the town, in hopes that they see the town and decide to make it their home.

For restaurants, they have 3 mom and pop pizza shops that have been there for ages. There’s also a Little Caesars and another pizza chain. Pizza Hut couldn’t compete and closed during the pandemic. There’s also 4 Mexican restaurants and a food truck, plus Taco Bell. There’s many other local restaurants. This is in Illinois, which had strict COVID laws, but for the most part, a lot survived the pandemic pretty well.

Again, although my friend is very smart and the radio stations did lose ad revenue during the pandemic, I believe the unique dynamics of his small town and his relationships, knowledge and connections have helped his radio stations thrive. Hopefully that continues for quite some time to come. I watch this guy on YouTube and he travels to small towns across the country and I definitely understand that not every small town is the same.

 

[chriscervantez]

Are they charged extra for the social media event mentions?

I’m not exactly sure. At one time I believed a lot of website, social media and streaming ad buys were just bonuses. However, I’m not sure if that’s still the case. Regardless, they’re having fun with it and the radio stations are in excellent financial shape. The owners are very happy with the current results, as is my friend. I believe they’re smart and will adjust their strategies as needed.

 

[vchimpanzee]

But just because they have some commercials on the local programming, doesn't mean those spots aren't $.50 each, or Lord forbid, trade.

I only know of one case where it was clearly trade. A cleaning service admitted on their commercial that they cleaned a radio station's building. That station has since been sold to a religious broadcaster.

 

[michael hagerty]

I only know of one case where it was clearly trade. A cleaning service admitted on their commercial that they cleaned a radio station's building. That station has since been sold to a religious broadcaster.

Robert W. Morgan, guesting on the last night of KHJ, before it became the automated jukebox KRTH-AM:





"Part of the problem was that the guys running the place thought 'quarter-hour maintenance' was a quickie janitorial service."

 

[SomeRadioGuy]

Some AM stations, especially if playing do-wop, cater to a senior audience. Nothing wrong with that, but those syndicated shows only allow a few breaks for local stations. They call that 'barter'. In other words, just because you're hearing spots, doesn't mean those are spots for local businesses and the station is seeing that revenue.

@vchimpanzee
I worked for a cluster of stations and had one AM that played old music.. WW'1s adult standards.. and they couldnt cover their own bills to save their carcass. if it wasnt for the cluster strategy the am wouldve gone dark and been deleted years ago... oldest station in the region and no real format holes left for it

 

[chriscervantez]

Many of those likes or connections could be auto-generated by foreign bots. It's pretty common these days.

Oh, I’m sure there are lots of bots, but for this station I think there are a ton of actual human beings. The type of content they post is fun and engaging. As I’ve mentioned, they generate lots of likes, comments, shares and the comments appear to be written by humans.

This page with 128,000 likes generates way more engagement than Hot 97 or Z100 in NYC and Hot has 1.7 million followers and Z100 is over 300k. Z100’s best post within the past few days got 2 likes. I’m guessing their percentage of bots/inactive users is a lot higher than the page for my friend’s station. However, it’s hard to tell and you could be absolutely right. Who knows?!

An expensive tool too! Streaming on a small market station is a complete money loser. Unless the station isn't paying their streaming royalty fees.

I guarantee you that they are doing everything right. They have sponsors for steaming and do pay royalty fees for the 2 stations they have that stream. My friend has mentioned how much in royalty fees they have to pay to keep the steaming up and I can’t remember the exact numbers, but it’s not cheap.

 

[DavidEduardo]

But just because they have some commercials on the local programming, doesn't mean those spots aren't $.50 each, or Lord forbid, trade.

"Dollar a Holler" is now a dime after inflation.

 

[DavidEduardo]

Are they charged extra for the social media event mentions? Because otherwise, there's all that "exposure", mostly to people who can't hear your radio station (and aren't anywhere near your advertisers), and no obvious benefit to the station for it. If it's generating more feet in the door at their business from locals, or people coming in from out of town, that's of value.

I know of one smaller market station that was getting lots of social media hits. They did a little contest online that was based on local facts that could not be looked up online as they were strictly hometown gossipy type things. Instead of tens of thousands of likes or whatever, the got a couple of dozen participations.

If they're impressed that there are 128,000 people who saw that they're having an event, but only 9,000 people live in the town....well, it's probably best not to do the math in front of them.

And I'd certainly consider geozoning the stream. If any of the social media hits are real, you don't want a little local station paying for streaming outside the service area.

 

[Kelly A]

And I'd certainly consider geozoning the stream. If any of the social media hits are real, you don't want a little local station paying for streaming outside the service area.

And a double edged sword. Streaming companies charge extra for geofencing a stream.
Unless you're iHeart with several hundred stations/streams, streaming is a black hole that only sucks money and gives nothing in return.

 

[ILOVERADIO]

I've read some very well thought out posts in this thread; most refer to the business of radio, and making it more viable. Good thoughts, all of them.

However, the business of radio will thrive if and only if there are more and more ears clamoring for radio. They are not. Spotify.....YouTube Music....Pandora....all found a home, and are where the music listeners of today and tomorrow are.

Old ears don't count. Young ears count. They are not out there like they were when radio was 'great', and less so each and every day.

I read pitiful 'polls', sponsored by the radio industry, crowing about 'facts' like 52% of those 12-24 listened to radio in the past month. That is not something to be proud of. Ask the same group how many listened to streamed music. Yesterday.

Then I read this...even from eight years ago: Millennials Aren't Very Interested In Traditional Radio Any More Things have certainly not improved in the ensuing 8 years.

I 'get' that we are a radio forum, and those that are here are uniquely attached to radio. However, on the train forum, similar discussions are held about what will make passenger trains great again. The arguments are similar. Mostly, they center around people who love trains wanting trains to be great again. Same here.

Young people are the future. They don't seek out radio; they seek out specific music they can control. Change that, and something will change.

Coincidentally, I’m listening on the Internet to a local folk show on WDCB radio. Tonight’s theme is radio day. I think the host announced that today on National Radio Day. They’re playing hours of radio themed songs including the classic country/gospel song, “ Turn Your Radio On.” Nothing wrong with Spotify, but radio is special to millions of us.

 

[chriscervantez]

And a double edged sword. Streaming companies charge extra for geofencing a stream.
Unless you're iHeart with several hundred stations/streams, streaming is a black hole that only sucks money and gives nothing in return.

I don’t think geofencing would work anyways. They’re currently on the Audacy app and will be on iHeart very soon. I don’t think those apps allow stations to geofence.

 

[xmtrland]

I would think Audacy and iHeart need to geofence for certain sporting play by play on their own stations. I doubt they would prohibit it.

 

[Kelly A]

I would think Audacy and iHeart need to geofence for certain sporting play by play on their own stations. I doubt they would prohibit it.

That's true for stations that carry regional professional teams. The leagues don't allow carriage outside of the designated market.
Which typically means unless on SXM, those games are blacked out from a stream rather than geofencing it because people running a subscription VPN, can get around the geofence.

 

[vchimpanzee]

That's true for stations that carry regional professional teams. The leagues don't allow carriage outside of the designated market.
Which typically means unless on SXM, those games are blacked out from a stream rather than geofencing it because people running a subscription VPN, can get around the geofence.

I used to listen to WNAM in Appleton, WI and the stream didn't include the Green Bay Packers.

 

[Kent]

I would think Audacy and iHeart need to geofence for certain sporting play by play on their own stations. I doubt they would prohibit it.

From what I understand, all of the main content aggregators require national distribution. They might allow exceptions for sports programming, such as alternate programming, but everyone who clicks their links is supposed to get a playable stream at all times.

 

[RadioGuy1864]

And a double edged sword. Streaming companies charge extra for geofencing a stream.
Unless you're iHeart with several hundred stations/streams, streaming is a black hole that only sucks money and gives nothing in return.

So that puts a station between a rock and a hard place. You need to be streaming to capture listeners on their phones/alexa or computers at work, but streaming costs money and allows for out of market listeners--who don't generate any money for the station--to listen. Outside of only steaming through a geo-fenced site outside of the Audacy or iHeart universe, and losing easy access to those local listeners, what is the solution? Or does the station just have to absorb the added expense of streaming and "hope it all works out" I was always taught that "hope" is not a plan.