Making money with internet radio... How?

[Radioman100]

I'm curious. If I wanted to start an internet station, how exactly would I make money with it?

Is anyone here getting rich doing this?

You see, I keep hearing internet radio is going to KILL terrestrial radio, and I'm curious as to what kind of business plan you guys have and if it's working for you.

 

[Starbucks]

Good question....but right now for someone who also tried ...the answer is no. Just a few like Club 977 along with a handful of overseas stations. It's got to get in the cars just like anything else. It does get in the offices, but not enough. Not yet. My reason is probably I aimed for the wrong audience or the wrong format. Or the wrong host supplier. But I haven't givin up...I'm still figuring things out. You can only wait for WI-Max and see where that gets us.

 

[FightingIrish]

You could always go the ad route on the website. Google and Amazon have associate programs. Radiosophy also does for HD Radio. I have ads from all three on my blog.

Patience is required, though. Took a while to get my first Google check ($100). May take a long while to get rich on it, and even that's not guaranteed.

 

[talkback13]

Re: Making money with Internet radio... How?

If you own a smartphone with data plan and Bluetooth Audio - Voilà! "Mobile Internet Radio."

I have it now and I love it -- the service is very good. I would say maybe about a year till it's adopted by the masses. So start your station now.

I have streaming radio links bookmarked on my cell phone from www.TalkStreamLive.mobi

 

[dbdigital]

Apparently the guy who runs Radio Paradise is able to support his station through donations. Of course, he's also gotten quite a bit if press coverage. As a result, people from all over the world have tuned in just out of curiousity and have remained listeners and contributors.

In addition, Radio Paradise sells the usual Cafe Press stuff, T-shirts, caps and mugs with their logo, and (I think) might even sell concert tickets and offer a click through to Amazon for CD sales.

But those are ways an internet station can make some money. Google AdSense is another way to pick up a few dollars.

I'm a great believer in publicity and think it is important for any internet station to try to promote itself through press coverage, at least on a local level. Most local newspapers would love to write up a story about a "new radio station" in their town.

db

 

[Radioman100]

So how much money does a typical internet station bring in? How much exposure do you have to risk?

I could get an internet station up and running literally overnight. I don't however, because I really don't need another expensive hobby. I would need at least some assurance that it would be financially successful. I have zero desire to write big checks to service providers and SoundExchange without bigger checks coming in to cover the cost.

I read this article a while back: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/arts/music/23assa.html?ref=arts I have zero desire to be that guy.

 

[dbdigital]

So how much money does a typical internet station bring in? How much exposure do you have to risk?

I could get an internet station up and running literally overnight. I don't however, because I really don't need another expensive hobby. I would need at least some assurance that it would be financially successful. I have zero desire to write big checks to service providers and SoundExchange without bigger checks coming in to cover the cost.

I read this article a while back: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/arts/music/23assa.html?ref=arts I have zero desire to be that guy.

I wouldn't be so smug given that both the RIAA and Congress have terrestrial radio in their gun sights.

In the end, I suspect, broadcasters of all flavors will be paying performance royalty fees.

db

 

[Radioman100]

I wouldn't be so smug given that both the RIAA and Congress have terrestrial radio in their gun sights.

In the end, I suspect, broadcasters of all flavors will be paying performance royalty fees.

db

Smug? Funny... Smug isn't what I was going for. Oh well.

My point was that I have no desire to personally subsidize internet radio listening to the tune of $1,000+ per month. I would have zero desire to get into that kind of situation, and I'm eager for someone to tell me how you avoid it, short of not getting into webcasting at all. I'd personally prefer to do it without begging.

As far as the RIAA is concerned, webcasters are worthless to them. John Simson of SoundExchange says as much in the NY Times article. Do I agree with him? Not really. If web radio has the listenership it claims, it should be an effective vehicle for promoting new music. As effective as radio? No, but certainly not worthless.

If something like SoundExchange is ever imposed on terrestrial radio, I'm sure the industry would find a way of showing the recording industry just how important we are to their well being. I think a self imposed ban on adding any new music until such royalties were reversed would be very effective. The RIAA would be cutting off its nose to spite its face, so to speak, and we'd just have to show them the err of their ways.

And by the way, radio already pays performance royalty fees. ASCAP and BMI royalties are how songwriters and publishers make their money. Now the RIAA wants in on that money because they just aren't moving the product they used to. Did radio do that? No, Napster and unrealistically priced CDs did.

 

[talkback13]

Re: Making money with Internet radio... How?

The stations make the hits. The NAB should counter-sue 1000s of john doe artists who benefit from but do not pay the stations for the advertising.

Bring back pay for play...?

 

[vsa]

So how much money does a typical internet station bring in?  How much exposure do you have to risk?

I could get an internet station up and running literally overnight.  I don't however, because I really don't need another expensive hobby.  I would need at least some assurance that it would be financially successful.  I have zero desire to write big checks to service providers and SoundExchange without bigger checks coming in to cover the cost. 

I read this article a while back: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/arts/music/23assa.html?ref=arts  I have zero desire to be that guy.

Over the years, RadioParadise and AccuRadio have grown to the point where they gross close to a half-million per year - RP from PBS-style listener support, AccuRadio from advertising and music sales. Soma-FM is not far behind thanks to listener donations.

If you want to sell Internet radio ads, Katz Net Radio Sales or Ronning Lipset Radio are the top rep firms.

http://www.katz-media.com/radio/krns.aspx

http://www.rlradio.com/

Google's AdSense is good for simple text ads.

https://www.google.com/adsense/login/en_US/

You don't sound serious though. No businessman goes into anything with a guarantee of instant profits, not even traditional radio broadcasters. 

 

[Starbucks]

It's funny how the courts change because..........during the 30's artist like Bing Crosby would print on the record label, any transmission of their recording heard on the air, will be punishable by law to any disc-jockey or radio station that violates. So it was finally tested in court back in 1940 by a top artist by the name of Paul Whiteman who took a station to court and had his charges overturned by a judge who ruled any recording that was legally purchased...the consumer or purchasee can do what they want with the recording as long as they don't profit. (They were aloud to air it)
Well that was the beginning of the marriage between the recording industry and radio. And they both became more successful and profitable ever since. I wonder how that all changed. Now you can't play it with the windows open. Hmmmm, only thing I can think of on this change if it only reflects on digital recordings. Not analog.
As far as I feel..... feel I should only pay if I'm profiting. Not just promoting. But I do learn things or ideas on this board like post number 2 as far as yahoo advertising. Now I have to rebuild my audience a bit to see if I can make it work again.
Being on Live 365...yes they pay your royalties with a combined monthly fee along with the other contributing fees of roughly 7000 or more current stations. Your placed on their directory and your just another number. And you hope they find you.
I placed a post on their message stating where I was rated as high as the mid 1100's as the ranked listened to stations by hour out of roughly 9000- 10000 stations, but when you only break it down....you averaging 15-20 listeners an hour. That's only in the daytime hours. Night time you mine as well play the "Star Spangled Banner". And you get as high as 1100 something...then you plateau. You then feel like you need to stream or add another host, and then that's when it gets expensive. It even gets draining when you think you hit as many people as your gonna hit and even the pre-set add- ons slow down, you think it's time to move on, even though your still fairly ranked up there. Then you run out of steam and you think of changing format.
My listeners seem to mostly like me ....but get them donate?..that's another question. Get advertising.....not with an average of 20, when you see stations like Radio Paradise, Korean Pop Channel, Club 977, etc.... with oup to 3600 listeners a cume. Maybe I went after the wrong audience. And I've done that twice.
Apparently which might open another topic.... What format seems to attract the most listeners to the Internet....my research seems to be Oldies, and Classic Rock. And maybe 70's or 80's decade. They seem to be at the top.
Starting your own station, you feel like your already are 7 years late start...because there is so many out there.
But to be honest in my opinion....(not including foreign obviously), alot of them are poor or bland , despite the vast diversity of almost any type of format you can think of. (They even have a format for rodents.)
Right now if you want to run your own station....the RIAA or Sound exchange is making it miserable for people who already have streams like me. The good thing is , there are alot of people who are streaming but aren't licensed out there , which means there can be as many unlicensed stations then there are foreclosures.

 

[Starbucks]

I have tried with Commission Junction which are visual ads for your website. I haven't had much success. But it's worth the try with the links you supplied.

 

[Radioman100]

Over the years, RadioParadise and AccuRadio have grown to the point where they gross close to a half-million per year - RP from PBS-style listener support, AccuRadio from advertising and music sales. Soma-FM is not far behind thanks to listener donations.

Gross? What do they net? My Dad used to own a business that grossed over a million dollars a year. He gave it up because the net income from the business only provided a lower middle class standard of living for our family.

You don't sound serious though. No businessman goes into anything with a guarantee of instant profits, not even traditional radio broadcasters.

No smart businessman goes into business without a solid business plan. I don't see one here. I see huge risk with little profit potential, at least from what I've read here. A handful of webcasters begging their way to pseudo-prosperity doesn't seem like much of a business plan to me.

 

[vsa]

Over the years, RadioParadise and AccuRadio have grown to the point where they gross close to a half-million per year - RP from PBS-style listener support, AccuRadio from advertising and music sales. Soma-FM is not far behind thanks to listener donations.

Gross? What do they net? My Dad used to own a business that grossed over a million dollars a year. He gave it up because the net income from the business only provided a lower middle class standard of living for our family.

You don't sound serious though. No businessman goes into anything with a guarantee of instant profits, not even traditional radio broadcasters.

No smart businessman goes into business without a solid business plan. I don't see one here. I see huge risk with little profit potential, at least from what I've read here. A handful of webcasters begging their way to pseudo-prosperity doesn't seem like much of a business plan to me.

I know you're not interested in the least. Anyone with access to the web who's too lazy to investigate these things for himself doesn't have the drive to succeed in business.

Or you can check out:

http://www.freebusinessplans4hdradiofanboys.com

 

[Radioman100]

I know you're not interested in the least. Anyone with access to the web who's too lazy to investigate these things for himself doesn't have the drive to succeed in business.

Or you can check out:

http://www.freebusinessplans4hdradiofanboys.com

And anyone that posts like that is obviously dodging the question. It's nice to know when it gets right down to it, you have no idea how internet radio can or will make money. You talk a lot of trash on the HD Radio board, but your idea of a successful webcasting operation is a beg-a-thon.

I have done a little investigating. In that investigation, lots of ways to spend money became very apparent, but no solid ways to make it. Begging isn't a business plan.

To borrow a phrase you anti-HD guys have completely worn out, THIS appears to be an emperor with no clothes! He's gotta BEG for some!

If I had known just how easy it would be to nullify ALL of your arguments, I would have done it months ago!

 

[vsa]

I know you're not interested in the least. Anyone with access to the web who's too lazy to investigate these things for himself doesn't have the drive to succeed in business. 

Or you can check out: 

http://www.freebusinessplans4hdradiofanboys.com

And anyone that posts like that is obviously dodging the question.  It's nice to know when it gets right down to it, you have no idea how internet radio can or will make money.  You talk a lot of trash on the HD Radio board, but your idea of a successful webcasting operation is a beg-a-thon.

I have done a little investigating.  In that investigation, lots of ways to spend money became very apparent, but no solid ways to make it.  Begging isn't a business plan.

To borrow a phrase you anti-HD guys have completely worn out, THIS appears to be an emperor with no clothes!  He's gotta BEG for some!

If I had known just how easy it would be to nullify ALL of your arguments, I would have done it months ago!

Are we reading the same messages on the same message board? I posted links to 2 major spot sales rep firms. You also ignore the fact that independent AccuRadio is grossing about $500,000 a year in ad sales and you call very successful PBS-style listener support as begathoners. Those standalone listener-supported Internet stations are probably raking in more money than all HD-2 radio station on the planet combined! I don't know what most webcasters are making. Privately-held firms are not obliged to release their earnings figures. Go back to your HD radio and enjoy it. The rest of us will be happy to move on without you.

By the way, this item is from Orbitcast:

"....AT&T may have just inadvertently let the cat out of the bag regarding a possible upcoming "iTunes radio" service coming to the iPhone..."

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/itunes-radio-on-route.html

 

[Radioman100]

Are we reading the same messages on the same message board? I posted links to 2 major spot sales rep firms. You also ignore the fact that independent AccuRadio is grossing about $500,000 a year in ad sales and you call very successful PBS-style listener support as begathoners.

Again, you're citing GROSS profits. That's all the money they bring in, and doesn't factor in expenses. If they were NETTING $500,000 a year, that might be something. A half million GROSS isn't very impressive, especially when you consider the cost of doing business, particularly with SoundExchange.

Dress up begging any way you want. It's still begging, and it certainly WON'T work for many formats. Eclectic, out there, high brow, stuff? Maybe. Popular music? No way in hell.

Those standalone listener-supported Internet stations are probably raking in more money than all HD-2 radio station on the planet combined!

Well, that's not much of a stretch since the HD Radio Alliance members aren't selling ads on HD2 yet.

I don't know what most webcasters are making. Privately-held firms are not obliged to release their earnings figures.

Go figure. You bloat and gloat, and then you have no real idea what kind of revenue your treasured webcasters are making. Why am I not surprised. Your best case scenarios are GROSSING about half a mil. Not impressive at all.

Go back to your HD radio and enjoy it. The rest of us will be happy to move on without you.

Be glad to, if you'll kindly return the favor and quit spamming the HD Radio forum with webcasting posts.

 

[Radioman100]

By the way, this item is from Orbitcast:

"....AT&T may have just inadvertently let the cat out of the bag regarding a possible upcoming "iTunes radio" service coming to the iPhone..."

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/itunes-radio-on-route.html

Maybe it will be marginally more successful than the Sirius on Sprint service that has existed for over two years now.

 

[vsa]

Are we reading the same messages on the same message board? I posted links to 2 major spot sales rep firms. You also ignore the fact that independent AccuRadio is grossing about $500,000 a year in ad sales and you call very successful PBS-style listener support as begathoners.

Again, you're citing GROSS profits.  That's all the money they bring in, and doesn't factor in expenses.  If they were NETTING $500,000 a year, that might be something.  A half million GROSS isn't very impressive, especially when you consider the cost of doing business, particularly with SoundExchange.

Dress up begging any way you want.  It's still begging, and it certainly WON'T work for many formats.  Eclectic, out there, high brow, stuff?  Maybe.  Popular music?  No way in hell.

Those standalone listener-supported Internet stations are probably raking in more money than all HD-2 radio station on the planet combined!

Well, that's not much of a stretch since the HD Radio Alliance members aren't selling ads on HD2 yet.

I don't know what most webcasters are making. Privately-held firms are not obliged to release their earnings figures.

Go figure.  You bloat and gloat, and then you have no real idea what kind of revenue your treasured webcasters are making.  Why am I not surprised.  Your best case scenarios are GROSSING about half a mil.  Not impressive at all.

Go back to your HD radio and enjoy it. The rest of us will be happy to move on without you.

Be glad to, if you'll kindly return the favor and quit spamming the HD Radio forum with webcasting posts. 

I mentioned what 3 mom & pop online radio stations gross. There are more than a few AM or even FM mom & pops that would love to do that. AccuRadio makes its money from ads. You haven't responded to that one yet. I haven't even gotten around to talking about the medium to large streamers out there.

I've been citing all of the facts and figures while you express your opinions. Cite me some facts that traditional radio's revenues are healthy and growing. The RAB just admitted an average 7% September revenue drop from a year ago. Tell me how much HD radio broadcasters plan to earn this year and next and how they'll do it.

I will place my posts where and when they're appropriate. I am not afraid of the light of day. Looks like you may be regarding HD radio. You came to this board seeking answers to a question. I'm sorry I haven't been able to satisfy your demands. It appears my answers don't jive with your preconceived notions.


  

 

[vsa]

By the way, this item is from Orbitcast:

"....AT&T may have just inadvertently let the cat out of the bag regarding a possible upcoming "iTunes radio" service coming to the iPhone..."

http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/itunes-radio-on-route.html

Maybe it will be marginally more successful than the Sirius on Sprint service that has existed for over two years now.

If you read yesterday's news from Google, you'll realize that smartphones will soon be doing virtually the same things we are now doing on our laptop and desktop computers. Maybe Apple's iTunes radio will be more than marginally successful than Sirius on Sprint. It's a sure thing that it will be more successful than HD radio.