• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

Marketing AAR in Southern States

JerryStevens

JerryStevens

I think Morning Sedition might be the best part of AAR. But as a native northerner who moved south a long time ago, I think I have a handle on what plays well here and what doesn't. This doesn't: "Dateline.. the South.. Dixie.. a distinct area with its own unique heritage of cuisine, and idiocy... " mp3 here (330kb, 21 seconds) It's funny in the same way ethnic jokes are funny.
If it were playing only on a northern station, no problem. I have a feeling that this will only appeal to northern transplants who moved to the south for a job and don't like it here. I don't think that is enough of a constituency to build a big audience.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
> I think Morning Sedition might be the best part of AAR. But
> as a native northerner who moved south a long time ago, I
> think I have a handle on what plays well here and what
> doesn't. This doesn't: "Dateline.. the South.. Dixie.. a
> distinct area with its own unique heritage of cuisine, and
> idiocy... " mp3 here (330kb, 21 seconds) It's funny in the
> same way ethnic jokes are funny.
> If it were playing only on a northern station, no problem. I
> have a feeling that this will only appeal to northern
> transplants who moved to the south for a job and don't like
> it here. I don't think that is enough of a constituency to
> build a big audience.
>

Well, I live in Savannah, Georgia and don't really have any problems with their jokes. When a show like "American Dad" takes a jab at liberals, I don't go running for the hills.

And Air America has stations in Atlanta, Asheville, NC, Chapel Hill, SC, Charleston, and Miami to name a few. I really don't think that's an issue. Or are you yet another conservative trying to lambaste Air America for no other reason than you don't like it? Hmmm...
 
Warning! Troll alert.

"Or are you yet another conservative trying to lambaste Air America for no other reason than you don't like it? Hmmm...

<font color=red><big> WTF?! <font color=black></big>

This is a radio board.

If you want to start a hack flamewar about politics, do us all a favor and take it over to freerepublic, moveon, or somewhere where they live for that sh!t.

No wonder you post anonymously.<P ID="signature">______________
"If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague." - Oscar Wilde</P>
 
Miami isn't part of the South...

Culturally speaking, it's not even part of the United States.

Atlanta is a liberal island in the Sea of Georgia.

The jury is still out on Charleston.

But the AA stations do face an uphill hurdle.

Few liberal talk show hosts come from the South.

Hell, few radio talk show hosts PERIOD come from the South.

The only one I can think of is Neil Boortz, who was born in Pennsylvania but grew up south of the M-D line and went to Texas A&M.

Why is that?
 
Re: Miami isn't part of the South...

<div align="justify">"Culturally speaking, it's not even part of the United States."

No doubt about it and I'm sure Miami is a safe haven for AAR. But what about the rest of the South?

"Atlanta is a liberal island in the Sea of Georgia."

Best line I ever heard about Atlanta was this: I asked a friend who had just moved to Atlanta from New York how he liked it. He replied: "Atlanta is great. The only negative is, it's surrounded by Georgia!" That was many years ago. But now... what used to be that liberal island you mentioned is now a multimillion person corridor stretching from Atlanta to Greenville to Spartanburg to Charlotte. Not all liberal, but neither is Atlanta. But it sure isn't that backwoods place poorly traveled Northerners and Westerners imagine.

<center>
ATLCLTMAP.gif
</center>


"The jury is still out on Charleston.

I've spent some time in Charleston. It has as good a chance as any other Southern city and better than most.

"But the AA stations do face an uphill hurdle."
They do, but not for the reason most people think. Contrary to popular belief, Smokey and the Bandit was not a documentary.

Southerners are sensitive to and tired of the northerner air of superiority. This is not limited to conservatives. Liberal Southerners don't like it either. How would it be if you launched a sports station in Pittsburgh, and the numbskulls at ESPN uniformly showed their contempt for the city and called its residents dumb? Would Pittsburgh listen to it? I think not. Now, I am not saying that one bit this morning on Morning Sedition is indicative of all of AAR. I don't have an affiliate here but I sometimes listen via podcast. It's just such a stereotypical liberal mistake as Howard Dean has noted and recognizes a need to correct. I avoided that pitfall and it worked for me. I am from Cleveland and was told I'd never make it in radio in Savannah. I lasted 22 years there and 2 in Greenville before hanging it up.

Few liberal talk show hosts come from the South. Hell, few radio talk show hosts PERIOD come from the South. The only one I can think of is Neil Boortz, who was born in Pennsylvania but grew up south of the M-D line and went to Texas A&M.

There are lots of local talk show hosts from the south. I think you mean to ask why there aren't more network talk show hosts from the south. I will hazard a guess that's because it would require they move north at some point in their careers. How often do you hear of someone moving from Atlanta to Detroit, New York or Cleveland versus the other way around?<P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

My passion for talk radio extends from Limbaugh to Komando to Franken. Please don't bore me with your political opinions or make commentary on what you imagine mine to be. No one cares.
</P>
 
Re: Marketing AAR outside Manhattan

The famous New Yorker magazine (yes, the New Yorker) cover that shows the view of the world from Manhattan captures the Air America mindset. Too much of their "humor" doesn't play well outside a few square miles on the East side.

They keep talking about diversity on Air America but all you get are politically correct people who all know the same people, go to the same places, eat in the same delis and restaurants. New York liberals talking to themselves; small town radio surrounded by a big city.

Notice the best and most successful progressive talk programs come from Cincinnati, Ohio and Fargo, North Dakota.

> I think Morning Sedition might be the best part of AAR. But
> as a native northerner who moved south a long time ago, I
> think I have a handle on what plays well here and what
> doesn't. This doesn't: "Dateline.. the South.. Dixie.. a
> distinct area with its own unique heritage of cuisine, and
> idiocy... " mp3 here (330kb, 21 seconds) It's funny in the
> same way ethnic jokes are funny.
> If it were playing only on a northern station, no problem. I
> have a feeling that this will only appeal to northern
> transplants who moved to the south for a job and don't like
> it here. I don't think that is enough of a constituency to
> build a big audience.
>
 
Re: Marketing AAR outside Manhattan

> The famous New Yorker magazine (yes, the New Yorker) cover
> that shows the view of the world from Manhattan captures the
> Air America mindset. Too much of their "humor" doesn't play
> well outside a few square miles on the East side.
>
> They keep talking about diversity on Air America but all you
> get are politically correct people who all know the same
> people, go to the same places, eat in the same delis and
> restaurants. New York liberals talking to themselves; small
> town radio surrounded by a big city.

"All you get?" Neither Jerry Springer or Mike Malloy live in or broadcast from New York City or anywhere near NYC -- and Al Franken has said he'll be moving back to Minnesota and will be broadcasting from there. And as a former Manhattanite, I can tell you that there are far more liberals per square mile on the WEST Side than on the East Side (which is heavily populated by rich Republicans).
 
Re: Marketing AAR outside Manhattan

>
> "All you get?" Neither Jerry Springer or Mike Malloy live
> in or broadcast from New York City or anywhere near NYC --
> and Al Franken has said he'll be moving back to Minnesota
> and will be broadcasting from there. And as a former
> Manhattanite, I can tell you that there are far more
> liberals per square mile on the WEST Side than on the East
> Side (which is heavily populated by rich Republicans).
>

Springer does his show out of Chicago.

Malloy works out of Atlanta.

Franken is a Minnesota boy, and is moving back.

Schultz broadcasts from Fargo, North Dakota.

Stephanie Miller is in L.A.

Randi Rhodes works out of New York, but honed her skills in many markets around the country, and built her talk career in Florida. Her current show is very similar to the show that's been on in West Palm Beach.

So, in other words, it looks like a good cross-section of America is represented here.<P ID="signature">______________
The Liberal Talk Radio Update</P>
 
Re: Marketing AAR outside Manhattan

> Springer does his show out of Chicago.

And Cincinnati--he's in the Queen City 3 days, and in the Windy City 2 days (or vice versa...I can't remember exactly now).
 
What conditions facilitate an AAR or progressive talk station in the South?

So, what would your hypothesises be?

What conditions facilitate an AAR or progressive talk station in the South?

* Significant (medium to large) concentration of northern transplants?
* Previous history of "left-" or "progressive-leaning" politics (e.g. a Berkeley of the South)?
* Significant-sized (medium to large) college in area (e.g. students, profs, admin - listeners)?
* Seat of Governement in area (e.g. large number of government jobs)?
* Significant-sized (medium to large) concentration of blue-collar, working-class jobs (e.g. traditional manufacturing jobs).

What other conditions can people come up with?
 
Re: Marketing AAR outside Manhattan

> Notice the best and most successful progressive talk
> programs come from Cincinnati, Ohio and Fargo, North Dakota.

Ed Schultz pays stations to launch his show, so that's buying your "success." Randi Rhodes pulls stronger ratings than he does. Springer is star power, not location - and I'm not convinced his show is all that. Franken, BTW, is actually more aligned with Minnesota than NY these days, and he's heading back. Randi Rhodes is from all over, but her home base was W Palm Beach for most of her years as a talk show host.

Mike Malloy does his show from Atlanta. AA is not the NYC sensibility that you might imply.
 
Re: What conditions facilitate an AAR or progressive talk station in the South?

<div align="justify">A while back, I was opining on which counties in South Carolina would be most hospitable to AAR based on how they voted in November. It was pointed out to me that if a matching political philosophy was the requirement for success in political talk, Limbaugh would never have made it in New York.

What conditions facilitate an AAR or progressive talk station in the South? Same conditions that facilitate it anywhere.

As someone told me recently, good science is often counterintuitive. It applies here. I have come to believe that a city that is very dominantly liberal is less hospitable to AAR than one that is in a slight minority position. The condition that incubated conservative talk in the late 80's was the listener perception that he or she was marginalized by the limited existing media voices at the time. Fifteen years later, liberals have the same animus for Fox News that conservatives have for CBS News and many of them feel that they are disenfranchised by the dominant news distribution channels. Whether or not they are right is immaterial; that's how they feel. Charleston is predominantly conservative but has enough government employees and academics, both of whom tend to be liberal, to populate a significant liberal base as well.

It's easy to overestimate the importance of politics in political talk radio. A successful political talk host, whether it's Limbaugh, Ed Schultz, Randi Rhodes or Sean Hannity would be successful doing sports talk if they had the same passion for it. It's about entertainment value and, as my subject indicates, marketing.

Think about this. If high name recognition, grasp of the issues and articulateness were the most important factors the top conservative radio talk show hosts of the last 15 years might well have been William F. Buckley and George Will. (Yawn) Rush Limbaugh did a long stint in the minors before being called up to the major league.

AAR is better off promoting talk hosts from "the farm team" as was Randi Rhodes and Ed Schultz, than trying to take a famous comedy writer/political humorist such as Al Franken and waiting for him to learn radio.<P ID="signature">______________
Jerry

My passion for talk radio extends from Limbaugh to Komando to Franken. Please don't bore me with your political opinions or make commentary on what you imagine mine to be. No one cares.
</P>
 
Re: What conditions facilitate an AAR or progressive talk station in the South?

This is a good point. San Francisco and New York have been fertile ground for KSFO and WABC over the years. Surely a few liberals in Birmingham and Charlotte must feel similarly disfranchised. Charleston is not a market where any talk radio does well. The two conservative stations there draw mediocre numbers, despite one's moving to FM recently.

But it is interesting to me that few well-known hosts are from the South.
I think the two counties of Long Island have contributed far more national radio personalities than the whole swath of territory from Texas to Virginia.
(I'm talking about place of birth and early upbringing, not transplants.)
Part of this may be cultural, the Anglo-Celtic versus Mediterranean. A melting pot city like New York has many ethnic groups and a tradition of being very vocal. If people have a conflict, they yell it out. In the South, which prides itself on politeness, loud conversation is seen as aggressive or even violent.
An Anglo-Celtic Southerner might sit and seethe if some Lon Guylander starts a verbal conflict with them, and then suddenly explode without warning with a fist or a firearm.
<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by FloridaBear1776 on 06/16/05 11:58 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: Warning! Troll alert.

> "Or are you yet another conservative trying to lambaste Air
> America for no other reason than you don't like it? Hmmm...
>
> WTF?!
>
> This is a radio board.
>
> If you want to start a hack flamewar about politics, do us
> all a favor and take it over to freerepublic, moveon, or
> somewhere where they live for that sh!t.
>
> No wonder you post anonymously.
>

Whoa! I'm merely stating that some people seem to thrive on their own perception of Air America's failings. This poster's assertion of "don't do jokes about the South" is really pedestrian. Many late-night comedians have done the same type of jokes.

And stop with the troll thing. I've posted here for years.
 
Re: What conditions facilitate an AAR or progressive talk station in the South?

> AAR is better off promoting talk hosts from "the farm team"
> as was Randi Rhodes and Ed Schultz, than trying to take a
> famous comedy writer/political humorist such as Al Franken
> and waiting for him to learn radio.

I know that it's heresy on this board to admit that anyone without years of radio experience (which I have) could do a listenable radio show, but...

I can't listen to Rhodes for more than 15 minutes, while I can listen to Franken for a full three hours. And I can't say that for any other talk show host, conservative or liberal.
 
I can make it there, I don't care if I make anywhere (else)

Springer is distributed by Air America Radio (although not exclusively), not produced by Air America Radio. Ed Schultz and Stephanie Miller have no connection with Air America at all.

Malloy is on late at night and many affiliates carry Lionel or Phil Hendrie instead. His audience is minimal.

I agree that an insular and parochial Manhattan sensibility pervades AAR weekday programming - an I'm-in-New York-and-you're-not mindset. I am speaking specially of Randi Rhodes (who is very Nooo Yawk despite her time in a place New Yorkers go to winter or to retire), Al Franken (who has lived in New York for over 30 years) and most especially the two guys on Morning Sedition.

PS: Randi Rhodes gets higher ratings than Ed Schultz? It's one thing to guess or speculate here; it's another to make stuff up. Ed Schultz bumps Randi in most markets with progressive talk stations.

Democracy Radio pays stations to carry programs as part of their strategy to "nurture" new programs. Once they get started, the plan is to divest the program and let is stand on it's own (as just happened with Ed Schultz' program).<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small">Edited by resp65 on 06/17/05 01:55 PM.</FONT></P>
 
Re: I can make it there, I don't care if I make anywhere (else)

> Malloy is on late at night and many affiliates carry Lionel
> or Phil Hendrie instead. His audience is minimal.

But he's not in NY. I actually like Lionel better than Malloy, because Lionel isn't all politics-all-the-time. I also love him razzing Joe Scarborough.

> PS: Randi Rhodes gets higher ratings than Ed Schultz? It's
> one thing to guess or speculate here; it's another to make
> stuff up. Ed Schultz bumps Randi in most markets with
> progressive talk stations.

Randi Rhodes in drive time has beat Schultz, not is sheer listeners nationally (Schultz is on more stations), but as a ratings draw. Schultz is cleared live because his outfit pays launch bonuses to stations to clear it live and are more restrictive about moving his show. That's the only reason Randi typically gets moved and Schultz has a larger affiliation base (as well as the fact AA requires its affiliates to clear several shows, not just one). Schultz is about to get booted or moved elsewhere on XM's AA channel to give Randi live clearance due to demand. Schultz also generates a lot of the same controversy that Colmes gets. A lot of listeners are suspicious about Ed.

> Democracy Radio pays stations to carry programs as part of
> their strategy to "nurture" new programs. Once they get
> started, the plan is to divest the program and let is stand
> on it's own (as just happened with Ed Schultz' program).

Read the contract. You have to play to win the bonus cash. That means clearing Schultz live if you want the platinum level. :)
 
What do you mean by controversy w/ Schultz, Colmes???

Hi...you wrote:

Schultz also
> generates a lot of the same controversy that Colmes gets. A
> lot of listeners are suspicious about Ed.

tom responds:

I'm not sure what do you mean by this? What controversy? Why are listeners suspicious of Ed?
 
Re: What do you mean by controversy w/ Schultz, Colmes???

Apparently he holds some non-liberal views, such as pro-life.

> Hi...you wrote:
>
> Schultz also
> > generates a lot of the same controversy that Colmes gets.
> A
> > lot of listeners are suspicious about Ed.
>
> tom responds:
>
> I'm not sure what do you mean by this? What controversy?
> Why are listeners suspicious of Ed?
>
<P ID="signature">______________
"There ain't no reason to fight over a woman. There's two more down the street!".."Senisble Don", 700 WLW</P>
 
Re: What do you mean by controversy w/ Schultz, Colmes???

> I'm not sure what do you mean by this? What controversy?
> Why are listeners suspicious of Ed?

First he's bought and paid for by the Democratic Party, and there are a lot of progressives who lean green who don't trust establishment Democrats either. Second, he was bashing some of the Democrat-leaning action groups, especially when they were upset about Democrats voting for the bankruptcy bill legislation.

Second, he has a rep of being uncooperative and nasty with other talk show hosts. Randi and Ed have been feuding for at least a year now, but she isn't thrilled with Al Franken either. Schultz rarely even mentions Air America, which upsets listeners who find his show on AA affiliates. Several AA hosts do speak nicely about him, however. AA listeners see progressive talk as a big family, which may be naive but there you go. Schultz is the cousin from North Dakota.

The real venom, of course, is directed to Alan Colmes who is essentially considered a Vichy talk show host for his collaboration with Fox and Hannity. Franken's last book solidified that, and a lot of AA fans are working hard to get Colmes booted off "their" station, particularly on XM.

The days of hand-wringing Democrats seem to be ending. They even target Senator Joe Biden. :)
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom