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Message for David Eduardo
- Thread starter cahokia
- Start date
RicoGregg said:
Well... you can usually find conterfeit glass hammers from street vendors in Tijuana. The buckets of steam are hard to find since Air America lost its San Diego affiliate.
Mike Sheridan said:
We know this, quite amply. And while PUR has eroded some 15% overal and considerably more in the very young demos, radio is still an enormously effective ad mediyum.
We are now in the transition from diary surveys to PPM, and the PPM shows PUR's about 40% lower than in the diary. In fact, while the average diarykeeper showed around 17 hours of TSL weekly, the average PPM carrier shows around 11 to 12 hours. So, by improvin gour ratings methodology, we have also shown that radio is used (and was used) much less.
And still it is a great medium. Nearly 95% cume reach weekly makes radio a much better medium than many.
Keep in mind, also that iPods replaced CD players which replaced cassette players. The real challenge to any ad supported medium among youth is more likely to be the over 120 million game consoles out there... you can't watch TV or listen to radio or read a paper while gaming.
Indielover said:
Radio in the rated markets is sold based on ratings. Ratings measure listenership. If you don't have many listeners, yoiu do not get bought, or get bought at a tiny rate. So stations do things like finding out what listeners want and don't want (evil research) and try, within the economics of the market, to provide something that some people will listen to.
It's really awfully simple if you think about it, unstead of dozing off when reality is presented to you.
136kgb said:
Of course you can. And you can drive the wrong way on the freeway, but in both cases that is not what a rational person would want to do. Radio management wants to find the solutions to getting good ratings and increasing billing... management does not want to find an excuse for playing a lot of Z. Z. Topp just because the manager likes it.
The surest way to kill a station is to play more or less songs than the ones the listeners had a consensus passion for.
Tarzan is back. Would a poll of poles be counting telephone poles or people from Poland?
[/quote]They actually had double digit ratings in San Diego back then, now we will never see that because of the homogenization of radio.
[/quote]
Well, from the 30's to the 1968 to 1970 period, only AM got ratings... that meant that there were only 540 (moved to 760), 600, 1360, 1240, 910, 1170 and 1130 in the ring (690 and 1090, too, if w. Today, the market is not just the cityyou want)area, but the whole county and there are 44 stations licensed to the metro and another 20-some in Tijuana. Of course there are not going to be double digit shares because the audience is more firmly divided.
I
Indielover
Guest
DavidEduardo said:
Yes I know, just as simple as the fact that you are all about corporate/cash...radio is a business run by corporations, computerized playlists....what will benefit the listeners means nothing...The irony in your tired old argument is each day broadcast radio is becoming more and more irrelevant....any real music fan is not listening any longer, there are far too many choices to put up with the crap put on the air by corporations concerned only with their bottom line.
cahokia said:
You are right!
All it takes for young people to get turned on to "old music" is for them to simply hear it.
Take a look at this posting of "Wouldn't It Be Nice" on youtube. http://youtube.com/watch?v=L--cqAI3IUI
Note that it has 2 million hits. Now read the comments. (Prepare for the typical youtube profanity and poor grammar, of course.) See how many posts are clearly written by young people who heard the song for the first time, loved it, and sought it out. See how many posts say "today's music is not as good." These people don't seem like 12 year olds copying Mom and Dad either. They're finding it themselves.
Whether they heard it in a Cadbury ad in England, or in "50 First Dates," the music grabbed them.
You can look up lots of old songs and see the same pattern. Over and over.
Oldies are timeless. Oldies stations should not be "moving up their timeframe." They should be keeping the old, and adding the more recent.
Indielover said:
99.9% of commercial radio stations are owned by corporations and always have been. And their objective is to make money by getting as many listeners as they can so that advertisers will be anxious to reach those listeners with news about their products and services.
We have been using computers to schedule since the late 70's, replacing cards and colored labels on cartridges to get better and more varied rotations with less work so we can spend more time on other things like promotions, airchecking, budgets and such.
Without a profit, there is no terrestrial radio. It's always been that way. I can tell you stories of several smaller group operators from the 60's that make today's companies seem like the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy rolled up in one.
The fact is that around 95% of Americans use radio every week, same as the 90's and the 80's and the 70's and the 60's. Yes, the time spent with radio is less, and we know about that. It is not that radio is bad, it is that some of the alternatives are very good, too. It's a fact we have to live with, but not one that indicates that radio is doomed to die in 48 hours.
"95 percent use radio each week" is misleading. It implies willful use. The truth is that stat includes the guy who hears 2 minutes of KOST while waiting in line at RiteAid.
A better way to put it would be "95 percent of the population is still exposed to radio each week, but listening by choice, and listening for long periods, both continue to show a steep decline."
A better way to put it would be "95 percent of the population is still exposed to radio each week, but listening by choice, and listening for long periods, both continue to show a steep decline."
scooty430 said:
Not really, but you would have to have been following diary based and PPM based measurement for a while to get the distinction.
PPM picks up hearing better than the diary. But while we want to think of hearing as the PPM picking up on the 10 minutes you were in the dry cleaner's where they had a radio on, the fact is that most "hearing" quarter hours come from at work listening or shared listening where someone else controlled the radio. Much of that did not get to the diary as people think of "I picked the station" for diary recall. And the fact is, "hearing" in an office, warehouse or auto mechanic's shop is often for more quarter hours than self-selected listening, and represents a boon to the advertiser.
When you take out the incidents that are of short duration, the figures are still in the 93% range. And when you take out the short incidents, you also take out many intentional usages of radio that were also short... such as the person in LA who gets in their car and sends 6 to 10 minutes with KNX or KFWB to get the traffic and then goes over to Kevin and Bean... this being the main reason why the diary reports 2.5 to about 3 stations per week per person, while the PPM gives 5 to 6.
DavidEduardo said:
And??
A "library size" or a playlist size. Listeners do not choose the libraries..Please tell me that listeners chose all 3000+ songs on CBS-FM's recent special. Didn't think so.
"What the listener wants to hear today" is a very unproven statement. 100-200 people conduct a music test..There are 200,000 potential listeners..What do the other 199,800 people want to hear?? Like I've said numerous times before, you do not know what other people's tastes are and what are their favorites are. Some of them are within the playlist but not all. Would it seem logical that maybe, just maybe a song that KRTH does not play (playlist of only 500), might be someone else's favorite?
oldies76 said:
Songs in regular rotation and exclusive of specialty shows. I have never heard anyone not call the regular playlist the library, but maybe you have. We have come a long way from the old room with shelves where records were stored. Many of us do not have any of our music on CD, disk, etc. It's all on a hard drive RAID Array and backed up to more hard drives.
sure they do. The stations that do not do this get killed by the ones that do.
I have no idea one way or another. However, since they likely did extensive research prior to going to classic hits, and had research from Jack and from the old oldies format, they could have combined all that data.
The exact same thing. A music test is usually 100 people or less, though. And we know from replication studies that we can test another 100 people, and then another, and the results will be the same. So it is not necessary to test any more than 100 persons (with that number actually being overkill).
If you look at New York ratings (and a music test is intended to make a station do well in the ratings) you find that there are 3800 meters in NY which has 16,000,000 12+ population. Of any station's cume, about 50% provides 92% of the quarter hours. Do the math on the cume, and you will find that a 100 person music test "talks to" more listeners than the "useful" meters track. So an AMT is more reliable, for this and many other reasons, than Arbitron.
We know totally, and within a percent or two of the actual score on each song, too. A properly constructed and recruited sample is more than adequate to know with considerable precision what songs are the ones that have a consensus positive score and can be played.
Radio is not an iPod. we can not cater to individuals, only to the largest possible consensus tastes. If a song is loved by 3 people and hated by 7, then it is unplayable because we would lose those 7 listeners every time we played the tune in the PPM era. We have to play songs that are at worst neutral, but mostly positive with nearly everyone at a music test.
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DavidEduardo said:
True, but the problem is they play those same songs over, and over, and over till you want to scream! Then that is followed by some insipid liner or 7 commercials. That's a big tune out to me.
As for PPM it may show people are hearing a station but you can't tell if they're paying attention, right?
This is why I enjoy XM and my iPod.
Mike Sheridan said:
The avereage listener uses a single station about 2 to 3 hours a week. Even P1 listeners use about 5 to 8 hours. And most formats have between 300 (AC) and 600 (country) songs in total. That allows for a lot of rest between plays.
No, you can't. But the advertisers and agencies that asked radio to move to electronic measurement, at great cost to radio, want precisely this.
This bit of mental flotsam doesn't do anything for this discussion, but it ought to leave you shaking your head in disbelief, David.
I became interested in understanding what is going on in the world of LPFM stations. I came across one that has a web site which allows you to see their entire play-list or library, as you please. 17,800+ musical items!
I guess they did it because they could.
(I had to convert the website html to text, take out all the html coding leaving me with just the text, and then import into a database to get a count. I guess I did it because I could. ;D )
I became interested in understanding what is going on in the world of LPFM stations. I came across one that has a web site which allows you to see their entire play-list or library, as you please. 17,800+ musical items!
I guess they did it because they could.
(I had to convert the website html to text, take out all the html coding leaving me with just the text, and then import into a database to get a count. I guess I did it because I could. ;D )
Goat Rodeo Cowboy said:
Or because they do not have to make money... because they can't make money! I suppose that this sort of thing is what some folks had in mind when the LPFM concept was developed.
jprg said:
I am so happy for you.
Does your iPod give you any hints that there is a traffic problem between your home and your work? Does your iPod alert you to the Severe Thunderstorm Warning just issued by the Weather Bureau? Does you iPod prepare you to be a good citizen when you cast your ballot.
On that last one: does the iPod prepare all those other fools who vote at the same precinct you do to vote for candidates who will deal with today and prepare us for the next generation?
Well,, Also my I-Pod doesn't tell me how "up to date" that particular stations weather is, then NOT tell me it's raining - when they said it would NOT. They ar ALL BRAG -NO FACT. There is a perfect liner for them.
My I-Pod doesn't brag about being "first" with the news, then play an old newscast. It happens quite often in this top 100 market.
I MUST listen to WGN, Chicago, 150 miles away, to get CORRECT weather, and good announcers, pronouncing properly. THAT is THE BEST station around. Local radio in this neck of the woods (read WOOD radio) is complete schlock. The nest entertainment after my i-pod is the oldies station. They are really good (bt for how long?).
There is no music for someone over 66 or so. Once there were 2 stations. Clear Channel ruined it all.
My I-Pod doesn't brag about being "first" with the news, then play an old newscast. It happens quite often in this top 100 market.
I MUST listen to WGN, Chicago, 150 miles away, to get CORRECT weather, and good announcers, pronouncing properly. THAT is THE BEST station around. Local radio in this neck of the woods (read WOOD radio) is complete schlock. The nest entertainment after my i-pod is the oldies station. They are really good (bt for how long?).
There is no music for someone over 66 or so. Once there were 2 stations. Clear Channel ruined it all.
Prais said:
WOOD weather report: "A troll was spotted moving in from Ionia to the east, and expected to deposit hail as well as produce thunder and lightening over area radio stations. As with all trolls, the damage will be negligable, and the negativity will be gone by early morning at the latest."
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