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MIX 106.5 Stunting
- Thread starter Morpheux
- Start date
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nightfly61
Guest
WLTF, Cleveland-Light Rock--Less Talk!
I doubt they'll go Urban with Z-1079 a hop, skip & jump up the dial.
Maybe they'll do an Urban AC, or something totally outlandish- Classic Country. ???
I doubt they'll go Urban with Z-1079 a hop, skip & jump up the dial.
Maybe they'll do an Urban AC, or something totally outlandish- Classic Country. ???
Wow, I don't have to kick around the "why they won't take 106.5 talk" thing anymore...Scott has made all the points I was going to make! And I may well quote you in my "Guessing 106.5's Next Direction" post tomorrow. 
Some random replies, tho:
As far as I know, Tony Matteo is still there.
Daune and Jay's departure was officially announced within the building. So was the station no longer carrying Valentine. Tony Matteo wasn't mentioned in that memo one way or another, and I don't have any word that he's gone.
I agree with you and Nate...that helps nudge it towards some sort of music format. If they were putting talk or sports on the thing, Tony has no other role in the building as far as I remember...he's just been PD of 106.5. If you change your format, fire your only two full-time personalities and dump your morning show, but don't touch your PD...yet, at least...
Excellent points, Tim. Why does CC need younger demos on WTAM when they're already getting those demos with Rover and Alan Cox on WMMS, and getting a decent return from them?
CBS? Same reason they don't launch a sports format here, though they've put a sports format on FM in a number of markets, including Pgh. They aren't long for Cleveland, and the only reason they stay here is because no one has met their price yet. (And in this market, that could be a LONG time in coming.)
Pgh is another market they'd presumably exit, being well out of the top 10, but they own two TV stations there...and could well hang onto 93.7 and 1020 as sports and news/talk sister stations to KDKA-TV and WPCW.
No such option here.
gabigley, for the 100th time on these boards, I do not know everything and I do not claim to know everything. I correct you from time to time when you go out on such a limb you need a tree trimming service to get you off the limb.
Some random replies, tho:
SonoSational18 said:
As far as I know, Tony Matteo is still there.
Daune and Jay's departure was officially announced within the building. So was the station no longer carrying Valentine. Tony Matteo wasn't mentioned in that memo one way or another, and I don't have any word that he's gone.
I agree with you and Nate...that helps nudge it towards some sort of music format. If they were putting talk or sports on the thing, Tony has no other role in the building as far as I remember...he's just been PD of 106.5. If you change your format, fire your only two full-time personalities and dump your morning show, but don't touch your PD...yet, at least...
Tim said:And, will CBS make the investment in an FM talker in Cleveland....a market they'd give their right arm to get out of? Not likely.
Hey, maybe CC sees their younger talk numbers are already in place...on WMMS.
Excellent points, Tim. Why does CC need younger demos on WTAM when they're already getting those demos with Rover and Alan Cox on WMMS, and getting a decent return from them?
CBS? Same reason they don't launch a sports format here, though they've put a sports format on FM in a number of markets, including Pgh. They aren't long for Cleveland, and the only reason they stay here is because no one has met their price yet. (And in this market, that could be a LONG time in coming.)
Pgh is another market they'd presumably exit, being well out of the top 10, but they own two TV stations there...and could well hang onto 93.7 and 1020 as sports and news/talk sister stations to KDKA-TV and WPCW.
No such option here.
gabigley, for the 100th time on these boards, I do not know everything and I do not claim to know everything. I correct you from time to time when you go out on such a limb you need a tree trimming service to get you off the limb.
HHH said:
Those stations have one thing in common: They are owned by CBS, not Clear Channel.
CBS has gone in for FM sports in a BIG way. Just up the road in Detroit (well, up the Ohio Turnpike and I-75
), their FM sports talker is now number one in the entire market.CC has been more cautious with the spoken word formats on FM, as Scott says. They've done some of them, though I can't recall a Clear Channel-owned FM sports talk station off the top of my head. A whole buncha AM sports talkers, including the 1130 in Detroit that was basically wiped off the map when 1270 moved to 97.1, but can't recall ANY FM sports talkers in the Clear Channel chain, at least in a market of any size.
Look at the companies when kicking this around. And speaking of which...
HHH said:
This isn't about 92. It's about Clear Channel.
Clear Channel tends to launch new formats in waves, particularly when they see some success in local markets.
* Jammin' Oldies spread like wildfire in the CC chain (can't remember the first one or two successful stations, but they were there).
* Liberal talk was planted on just about every second CC AM station after KPOJ/Portland got eye-popping numbers. (And was pulled from most of those stations when liberal talk lost its punch.)
* As for GenX, it seems to be spreading now...St. Louis being the most recent flip. I don't know how successful it is in places like Louisville and Columbus, but it was enough for CC to flip "The Sound" in StL.
As I always say...I could very well be wrong, and we may be hearing Triv or sports talk or klezmer music on 106.5 on Monday.
But that's just how I see it.
Oh, my apologies about the comment about "the other site". I got a tip about the change before it happened, but didn't address it on Twitter until about the same time the guy who runs the other site did. (Trying not to get this message deleted/edited/moved.)
Well whatever they decide to do, they have people talking for sure. I don't know much about the GenX format, so I asking how well do you think that format would do in Cleveland?OhioMediaWatch said:HHH said:
Those stations have one thing in common: They are owned by CBS, not Clear Channel.
CBS has gone in for FM sports in a BIG way. Just up the road in Detroit (well, up the Ohio Turnpike and I-75
CC has been more cautious with the spoken word formats on FM, as Scott says. They've done some of them, though I can't recall a Clear Channel-owned FM sports talk station off the top of my head. A whole buncha AM sports talkers, including the 1130 in Detroit that was basically wiped off the map when 1270 moved to 97.1, but can't recall ANY FM sports talkers in the Clear Channel chain, at least in a market of any size.
Look at the companies when kicking this around. And speaking of which...
HHH said:
This isn't about 92. It's about Clear Channel.
Clear Channel tends to launch new formats in waves, particularly when they see some success in local markets.
* Jammin' Oldies spread like wildfire in the CC chain (can't remember the first one or two successful stations, but they were there).
* Liberal talk was planted on just about every second CC AM station after KPOJ/Portland got eye-popping numbers. (And was pulled from most of those stations when liberal talk lost its punch.)
* As for GenX, it seems to be spreading now...St. Louis being the most recent flip. I don't know how successful it is in places like Louisville and Columbus, but it was enough for CC to flip "The Sound" in StL.
As I always say...I could very well be wrong, and we may be hearing Triv or sports talk or klezmer music on 106.5 on Monday.
But that's just how I see it.
Oh, my apologies about the comment about "the other site". I got a tip about the change before it happened, but didn't address it on Twitter until about the same time the guy who runs the other site did. (Trying not to get this message deleted/edited/moved.)
Here's something interesting, but may be just preference in the songs they selected. I'm following along with the playlist at yes.com now for 11am being repeated right now. Coming out of the last hour, song not listed, but had "angel" in the title seemingly, then going into Angel Baby -> Baby -> Baby What A Big Surprise -> Big Bad John -> Big Time. See the pattern, a word from the title in the last song held over in the new title. I noticed this on several hourly playlists. There's a lot of "holes" in the yes.com archiving also, sometimes 10 or 15 minute gaps between titles. May not mean anything, just interesting.
nightfly61 said:
The WLTF calls are currently being used on a Martinsburg WV/Hagerstown MD station, which simply uses the "Lite" name.
Just for kicks, if 106.5 did go back to "Lite Rock," would the old Jim Brickman jingles be revived?
To a previous poster:
Rizzo expanding would mean a longer show on WKNR.
Remember, he's leaving Fox 8 at the end of the week, so he'll have more time to devote to radio. Also, he's a Cleveland guy through and through, and he really wouldn't fit well in other Good Karma markets.
GK stations are mostly ESPN Radio with a few local hosts to talk local sports. You think Rizz would be heard in Milwaukee talking Packers? Think a little bit.
And why not news/sports talk on 106.5?
1. It would be different for FM
2. It would be mostly syndicated stuff, so it's not like they have to hire a bunch of people
3. By not doing music you could bring more people over to Kiss/Majic/MMS/GAR for their tune fix
4. You give WKNR some competition if you do sports (and perhaps put the nail in their coffin if you could snag Jim Rome and the Buckeyes--KNR's 2 biggest non-Rizzo guns)
5. You expand the WTAM/WTFM brand if you do talk, and if nothing else, play keep away with shows you don't want anyone else to snag.
Rizzo expanding would mean a longer show on WKNR.
Remember, he's leaving Fox 8 at the end of the week, so he'll have more time to devote to radio. Also, he's a Cleveland guy through and through, and he really wouldn't fit well in other Good Karma markets.
GK stations are mostly ESPN Radio with a few local hosts to talk local sports. You think Rizz would be heard in Milwaukee talking Packers? Think a little bit.
And why not news/sports talk on 106.5?
1. It would be different for FM
2. It would be mostly syndicated stuff, so it's not like they have to hire a bunch of people
3. By not doing music you could bring more people over to Kiss/Majic/MMS/GAR for their tune fix
4. You give WKNR some competition if you do sports (and perhaps put the nail in their coffin if you could snag Jim Rome and the Buckeyes--KNR's 2 biggest non-Rizzo guns)
5. You expand the WTAM/WTFM brand if you do talk, and if nothing else, play keep away with shows you don't want anyone else to snag.
One thing I think is safe to agree on: in many rust belt markets...big radio chain owners have clusters they'd LOVE to sell...but, as OMW points out re: Cleveland & CBS: they could be waiting a long time to get the price they're asking for.
Eventually these companies should bring down their prices...maybe even break up local clusters to a few individual local buyers (maybe creating smaller 2 or 3 station groups). Who knows.
Next Media has been trying to sell Canton for many years. But, who in their right mind would give them anywhere close to the $43 mill. they paid in a small-medium market with a bad economy? It's sad to say that, but it's reality.
Another question: with the development of what I call car radios with cheap internet access right around the corner (not I-phones w/wires to plug in)...maybe the key now is to own the format brand in the market, and drive folks to their streaming website...not buy more radio stations.
Eventually these companies should bring down their prices...maybe even break up local clusters to a few individual local buyers (maybe creating smaller 2 or 3 station groups). Who knows.
Next Media has been trying to sell Canton for many years. But, who in their right mind would give them anywhere close to the $43 mill. they paid in a small-medium market with a bad economy? It's sad to say that, but it's reality.
Another question: with the development of what I call car radios with cheap internet access right around the corner (not I-phones w/wires to plug in)...maybe the key now is to own the format brand in the market, and drive folks to their streaming website...not buy more radio stations.
OhioMediaWatch said:
Another thought is they make 1100 all (or mostly) local talk and 106.5 all syndicated talk.
Say for example. you move Beck and Rush to 106.5 (with Quinn & Rose, Hannity, Savage, Ramsay, Miller, Ingraham, or some combo thereof) and fill their spots with Bob Frantz and Matt Patrick, and ressurect "Sportsline" from 7 p.m. - midnight (with Andre Knott)
Kinda like Cincy--
All local on WLW 700, all syndie on WKRC 550
AntDog152 said:
Good question, and not really one I can answer.
It does probably skew young, and as Tim points out, this is an older market. But CC seems to think it works in the Midwest...Louisville, Columbus and now, St. Louis.
The key will be how they fit it in the cluster. I don't know enough about the music to know how that happens. (CC would have the same problem, by the way, with a "Brew" format...re: WMMS.)
In the end, I think CC still launches these new formats in waves, and we're in a GenX wave right now.
dannykewl said:
It means yes.com doesn't have a database of all recorded music
Stuff like the polkas, the patriotic music, etc. probably isn't showing up.I was listening with SoundHound on my Android phone, which uses a pretty extensive online database, and it choked on a few songs - like a Cleveland song I don't recognize, and even a cover tune that apparently wasn't close enough to trigger recognition.
Computer music discovery is solid when you're dealing with popular music (or mainstream formats like country, etc.). But this is probably the same reason there are holes in the yes.com listing for WMVX...they are going WAY out in left field from time to time.
vjm said:
I agree that any "expanding" statement would do that...but where? He will probably not start at 8, unless he moves to AM drive entirely after leaving Fox 8.
I don't see it happening. I think the Worldwide Leader is reluctantly allowing 'KNR to ship hour four of M&M to 1540. From what I've heard, they would likely ask the station to drop the ESPN 850 branding if they moved M&M entirely to 1540, and I don't think CK wants to do that.
In this one, especially, I could very much be wrong. I'm not writing it off entirely (and Rizzo certainly has AM drive radio experience from his years with Lanigan), but right now I guess no.
vjm said:
Interesting idea, and it does put Rush on FM ("Rush Radio 106.5", anyone?)...but...I don't think CC does that, at all.
Like most of this thread, you have to ask one question: "Why would they?" Leave personal wishes/observations out of it, and think like a corporate radio beancounter. I know, that's difficult.
WTAM is a huge, monster success story for them. The station has been highly rated for years, going back to roughly when they brought the Indians over from then-briefly-co-owned WKNR. (Yes, for those who aren't aware, WTAM and WKNR were sister stations for roughly 5 minutes, just long enough for 'TAM to take back the Tribe.)
Why, as the saying goes, "mess with success?" Why add an FM talker to compete with your big, successful AM?
One reason stations add "flankers", as they are called: to fend off potential competition. There are dozens of markets where (at least in the past) "traditional" big country FMs have added a second "Young Country" station, and some in reverse.
In Syracuse, CC recently flipped an Urban AC station to "Young Country", as another operator was mounting a challenge to its heritage country station in the market (WBBS). OK, so they flipped it for almost LITERALLY 5 minutes, as Urban AC returned the following Monday...only to be shuttled off to AM recently. Yes, that's the same station that will (according to strong rumor) become the FM talk simulcast.
We've already talked about this in Cleveland, on this thread... there's no threat of major (sorry, Salem) talk competition to WTAM any time soon.
CBS isn't mounting an FM talk station of any sort, really anywhere these days, and we've already explained why they aren't embracing a new FM sports format in a market they don't want to put down roots in.
vjm said:
Except, in addition to the above, 106.5 is on the FM band.
Tim said:
That's our big key about the station acquisition market - who is out there?
For AM stations, almost no one, aside from some small owners or groups (the Chris Lashes of the world) who are taking advantage of very, very low prices, and building from a small base. There's no way a WHBC/1480 goes anywhere near what an individual owner that would pay for it, and no one "big" is paying for AMs.
I love AM radio, as you well know, but in 2010, AM stations are foreclosure sales in bad parts of town.
For FM stations, it's not much easier. EMF is the only entity gobbling up FMs, but even they're not buying EVERYTHING. They spent under a quarter million bagging WEXC over on the Ohio/PA border. There's no way, say they were sniffing around NextMedia, they come anywhere NEAR any price NextMedia wants for 94.1 alone.
NextMedia will have to take a "haircut" on both stations, but they aren't going bald.
Interesting discovery.
So, I was posting the Twitter web page of that "bot" that uses the yes.com API to post 106.5's playlist:
http://twitter.com/crap1065plays
At the moment, it has 14 followers - I took myself off the list overnight, since I didn't want to overload my timeline.
Clicked on the follower list, and look!
Looks like he's still there.
So, I was posting the Twitter web page of that "bot" that uses the yes.com API to post 106.5's playlist:
http://twitter.com/crap1065plays
At the moment, it has 14 followers - I took myself off the list overnight, since I didn't want to overload my timeline.
Clicked on the follower list, and look!
Looks like he's still there.
dannykewl said:
This reminds me of a game that families play (or at least played) to pass the time on long car trips
OMW -
Rizzo kinda let the cat out of the bag a couple of days ago that the show would be expanding.
This is just my guess, but that would probably mean merely giving Rizzo an extra hour (8 a.m. - noon) with M&M going 8 - 10am on KNR2. I can't see Rizzo wanting a 4 a.m. wake-up call.
If Fox Sports Radio were to get poached from Good Karma, ESPN programming would easily fill any void.
At it's maximum summertime strength, 1540 goes from about 6 a.m. - 9:30 p.m.
Mike and Mike could easily be simulcast on 850/1540 from 6 a.m. - 8 a.m., and in the winter time when 1540 doesn't sign on until 7:45 a.m., the first half of M&M would still be easily heard on 850.
As it is right now, 850 goes local (except for Jim Rome) from 9 a.m. - midnight M-F (I count 10th Inning/KNR Overtime as a nightly show since it airs most nights).
On 850 ESPN goes from midnight - 5 a.m., then it's Munch for an hour at 5, then M&M from 6-9.
If anything, losing FSR would allow even MORE ESPN programming on 1540, which wouldn't hurt the Worldwide Leader's feelings too much.
One more thing...If CC wanted to make Mix more Gen-X, they could have done it simply by infusing more 90's tunes in the playlist without changing their name or firing their DJs.
Something more is up here.
Oh, BTW...
You also said CC doesn't put Rush on FM...WPGB 102.7 in Pittsburgh would like a word with you.
Rizzo kinda let the cat out of the bag a couple of days ago that the show would be expanding.
This is just my guess, but that would probably mean merely giving Rizzo an extra hour (8 a.m. - noon) with M&M going 8 - 10am on KNR2. I can't see Rizzo wanting a 4 a.m. wake-up call.
If Fox Sports Radio were to get poached from Good Karma, ESPN programming would easily fill any void.
At it's maximum summertime strength, 1540 goes from about 6 a.m. - 9:30 p.m.
Mike and Mike could easily be simulcast on 850/1540 from 6 a.m. - 8 a.m., and in the winter time when 1540 doesn't sign on until 7:45 a.m., the first half of M&M would still be easily heard on 850.
As it is right now, 850 goes local (except for Jim Rome) from 9 a.m. - midnight M-F (I count 10th Inning/KNR Overtime as a nightly show since it airs most nights).
On 850 ESPN goes from midnight - 5 a.m., then it's Munch for an hour at 5, then M&M from 6-9.
If anything, losing FSR would allow even MORE ESPN programming on 1540, which wouldn't hurt the Worldwide Leader's feelings too much.
One more thing...If CC wanted to make Mix more Gen-X, they could have done it simply by infusing more 90's tunes in the playlist without changing their name or firing their DJs.
Something more is up here.
Oh, BTW...
You also said CC doesn't put Rush on FM...WPGB 102.7 in Pittsburgh would like a word with you.
OK, I'm going out on a limb here, and am prolly wrong, but maybe WMVX will become WXEN again (if the calls are available) and do some kind of "nostalgia" format, Adult Standards, and/or mixed nostalgia/contemporary/ethnic blocks. Polkas in their playlist now! Remember they were the "Station of the nations" at one time. A lot of polkas back then. Some old nostalgic country and easy listening thrown in now like Dean Martin and Peggy Lee. Maybe like the old WELW from several years back when they had oldies, but also a variety of other formats? Maybe some classical programs as well. A commercial college type format?
If 106.5 goes all talk, I'll buy everybody on this board free lunch on Tuesday. Meet me at the winking Lizard at gateway at 12pm. I'll be the guy wearing crow. But I'm not worried about it.
There----ain't----no----way----cc----is----flipping----this ---to----talk or sports.
Period.
You can speculate all day and offer what if scenarios to keep you entertained, but I'm telling ya, it's music.
A couple of points:
Scott- cc dumped the wwva plan when Sen. Robert Byrd got involved. Without him in the way, it would have been done. They had a studio built for it. (now Rovers studio)
Nate- I have to disagree with your assessment that sports would bring in a ton of cash. In New York, Chicago, and Detroit, you bet. Ask Salem how big of a money maker WKNR was. Look at the purchase price to Craig. Most of the hosts on 850 are compensated based on advertising revenue they have to procure for the station.
There----ain't----no----way----cc----is----flipping----this ---to----talk or sports.
Period.
You can speculate all day and offer what if scenarios to keep you entertained, but I'm telling ya, it's music.
A couple of points:
Scott- cc dumped the wwva plan when Sen. Robert Byrd got involved. Without him in the way, it would have been done. They had a studio built for it. (now Rovers studio)
Nate- I have to disagree with your assessment that sports would bring in a ton of cash. In New York, Chicago, and Detroit, you bet. Ask Salem how big of a money maker WKNR was. Look at the purchase price to Craig. Most of the hosts on 850 are compensated based on advertising revenue they have to procure for the station.
Since someone else mentioned it, there was nothing more depressing than when Trivosonno showed up on KNR. CC owning WKNR was horrible, and the fact that they acquired them just long enough to get the Tribe on WTAM just showed once again how CC has ruined the Cleveland radio market.
Turning 106.5 to talk would be a terrible mistake. Yuck.
Turning 106.5 to talk would be a terrible mistake. Yuck.
T
Tri-State Media
Guest
vjm said:
WPGB isn't 102.7, but 104.7...
Oh and there's a Cleveland connection to WPGB. Guess which Cleveland station supplies news updates to WPGB after the CC Restructuring of 2009? That would be WTAM, which some of you are now throwing around for a possible simulcast partner. As OMW says, however, would they keep WMVX's PD in place if they were flipping to any kind of news/talk format? Nope... it simply wouldn't make sense.
Unless the expected next round of cuts comes from CC next month, I just don't see that happening.
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