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MIX 106.5 Stunting

John Baylor said:
Nate- I have to disagree with your assessment that sports would bring in a ton of cash. In New York, Chicago, and Detroit, you bet. Ask Salem how big of a money maker WKNR was. Look at the purchase price to Craig. Most of the hosts on 850 are compensated based on advertising revenue they have to procure for the station.

Part of that was Salem's fault - they invested no money into the station, and hired a PD (Michael Luczak) infamous for destroying other stations (WMMS "The Mullet Buzzard"; WZJM "Jammin' Oldies) - who also became the station's main imaging voice.

It was no secret that Salem wanted to plant the conservatalk format onto WKNR, but after the sudden reacquiring of WRMR/1420 as WHK 2.0, they were stuck with operating a sub-par sports station. And I give major credit to Brinda, Roda and Karlovec for having their damn best to do shows under those conditions.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised Craig bought it for as much as he did. The air sound has improved, and they have habitable studios for once... just the talent roster is still lacking, if not declined. And if it weren't for WWGK existing as - to paraphrase OMW, "an internet radio station equipped with a small 1,000 watt daytime transmitter" - ESPN would cancel the affiliation agreement in a heartbeat. But where else can they go?

(AFAIK, if Rizzo's show does expand, he'll move to afternoons in a schedule realignment. Just my *educated* guess.)

If the market was presented with a quality sports station that at least had one major teams' PBP rights, the station would be a considerable success. WKNR in the mid-90s was a bore and a chore to listen to, but did well when they had the Indians radio rights (not including the 1997 season, which saw WKNR bleed money due to overbidding on the rights renewal).

I'm not bullish on any spoken word format at all on 106.5 now. Simply because, as I mentioned before, PD Tony Matteo is not going to program a talk station.
 
mightybk1 said:
Since someone else mentioned it, there was nothing more depressing than when Trivosonno showed up on KNR. CC owning WKNR was horrible, and the fact that they acquired them just long enough to get the Tribe on WTAM just showed once again how CC has ruined the Cleveland radio market.

Turning 106.5 to talk would be a terrible mistake. Yuck.

Actually, Jacor owned WKNR, not CC (which at the time, still owned WERE/1300, WNCX/98.5 and WENZ/107.9).

Still, aside from adding Jim Rome, there's nothing positive to say about Jacor's ownership of WKNR whatsoever. The "Triv takeover of KNR" was replayed several times on WTAM thereafter (and IIRC, was on his podcast page years ago) but that was just depressing.

And for added insult, Jacor traded WKNR to Capstar so the Nationwide Communications merger could be finalized. In exchange, Jacor recieved WTAE/1250 Pittsburgh, soon to be renamed WEAE and spun off to Disney/ABC as an ESPN Radio O&O.
 
John Baylor said:
Who could forget the dreadful Bill Needle show?

Don't forget Mike Wolfe, Thor Tolo and Ronnie Duncan... Oof.

Sindelar was their best host, and the undisputed star of the station. No doubt about it.

In terms of dreadfulness, the "Early Morning Show with Greg Brinda," during the Jacor era, was designed to fail. With sports updates every 15 minutes, how could it not? ::)
 
MarkW said:
I think something is BREWing at 106.5.

Just a hunch. ;)

The concept of importing "Brew" (ha!) onto 106.5 is interesting. I wouldn't put much faith into it because there's the little problem of overlap with WMMS, as 80s metal is still a part of the station's playlist. (Yes, WMMS still plays actual music - who would have thought?)

If it's the "Brew," I have the feeling it would be more closer to Saga's incarnation of "Rewind" in Columbus and Bonneville's "Rewind" in Cincy. But that would essentially be "Mix 106.5" minus the 90s tracks and currents... so, what would be "new" about it?
 
Nathan Obral said:
John Baylor said:
Nate- I have to disagree with your assessment that sports would bring in a ton of cash. In New York, Chicago, and Detroit, you bet. Ask Salem how big of a money maker WKNR was. Look at the purchase price to Craig. Most of the hosts on 850 are compensated based on advertising revenue they have to procure for the station.

Part of that was Salem's fault - they invested no money into the station, and hired a PD (Michael Luczak) infamous for destroying other stations (WMMS "The Mullet Buzzard"; WZJM "Jammin' Oldies) - who also became the station's main imaging voice.

It was no secret that Salem wanted to plant the conservatalk format onto WKNR, but after the sudden reacquiring of WRMR/1420 as WHK 2.0, they were stuck with operating a sub-par sports station. And I give major credit to Brinda, Roda and Karlovec for having their damn best to do shows under those conditions.

Quite frankly, I'm surprised Craig bought it for as much as he did. The air sound has improved, and they have habitable studios for once... just the talent roster is still lacking, if not declined. And if it weren't for WWGK existing as - to paraphrase OMW, "an internet radio station equipped with a small 1,000 watt daytime transmitter" - ESPN would cancel the affiliation agreement in a heartbeat. But where else can they go?

(AFAIK, if Rizzo's show does expand, he'll move to afternoons in a schedule realignment. Just my *educated* guess.)

If the market was presented with a quality sports station that at least had one major teams' PBP rights, the station would be a considerable success. WKNR in the mid-90s was a bore and a chore to listen to, but did well when they had the Indians radio rights (not including the 1997 season, which saw WKNR bleed money due to overbidding on the rights renewal).

I'm not bullish on any spoken word format at all on 106.5 now. Simply because, as I mentioned before, PD Tony Matteo is not going to program a talk station.

WKNR talent roster 2005:

Hosts--
Grag Brinda, Kenny Roda, Bob Karlovec

Producer/sidekicks--
Eddie Mularz, Gene Winters, Josh Sabo

Sports anchors--
Jeff Thomas, Darryl Ruiter

WKNR talent roster 2010:

Hosts--Mark "Munch" Bishop, Tony Rizzo, Micheal Reghi, Kenny Roda, Jerrod Cherry, LeCharles Bentley, Greg Brinda

Producer/sidekicks--
TJ Zuppe, Aaron Goldhammer, Chris Fedor, Will Burge

Sports anchors--
Dave DeNatale

Todays roster is better and deeper, though I don't understand the need to push Goldhammer and Fedor so heavily.

And WKNR isn't gonna put Rizzo up against Trivisonno, Rizz is doing fine where he is, and I'll stick to my guns and say that expansion = going 8 a.m. - noon with Mike and Mike going 6-8 on 850 and 8-10 on 1540 (with an M&M simulcast until 8 when KNR2's daytime sign on schedule cooperates).

And Tony Matteo still being employed doesn't automatically mean he'll still be PD at 106.5--remember he was also the afternoon drive DJ for Mix as well, so he could still be around as merely on-air talent (maybe on either Majic or GAR).
 
vjm said:
WKNR talent roster 2005:

Hosts--
Grag Brinda, Kenny Roda, Bob Karlovec

Producer/sidekicks--
Eddie Mularz, Gene Winters, Josh Sabo

Sports anchors--
Jeff Thomas, Darryl Ruiter

WKNR talent roster 2010:

Hosts--Mark "Munch" Bishop, Tony Rizzo, Micheal Reghi, Kenny Roda, Jerrod Cherry, LeCharles Bentley, Greg Brinda

Producer/sidekicks--
TJ Zuppe, Aaron Goldhammer, Chris Fedor, Will Burge

Sports anchors--
Dave DeNatale

Todays roster is better and deeper, though I don't understand the need to push Goldhammer and Fedor so heavily.

It may be deeper, but it certainly isn't better. No one can tell me that losing Jeff Thomas, Karlovec, Sabo and Ruiter make it any better. And Thomas had been underutilized at WKNR dating back to the Jacor days!

As for Goldhammer and Fedor, I'm sorry, but those two are the worst sports hosts in town. Easily rivaling SuperStation KLAC... er, "Fox Sports Radio" hosts Petros Papadakis and Vic Jacobs as among the worst in the entire nation. But as long as Craig holds the deed to AM 850, Goldhammer and Fedor will have permanent employment over there.

If Clear Channel wanted to throw in the resources and money to build a sports talker, that would kill off WKNR - to the point where it becomes an ESPN O&O. The fight wouldn't be fair, nor would it be long.

But, again... the 1170 facility never moved to Stow. All of the acrylic paint tubes may exist in CC's arsenal, it's just that they never were able to buy the canvas.

vjm said:
And WKNR isn't gonna put Rizzo up against Trivisonno, Rizz is doing fine where he is, and I'll stick to my guns and say that expansion = going 8 a.m. - noon with Mike and Mike going 6-8 on 850 and 8-10 on 1540 (with an M&M simulcast until 8 when KNR2's daytime sign on schedule cooperates).

I don't see a 8a-12p time slot at all. Why would ESPN Radio permit half of their flagship program to be thrown onto KNR2, given that half of the lead-in to M&M is preempted for Munch's hour-long show? Unless an agreement is made to excise the ESPN name from WKNR's branding, and WWGK finally goes through on that upgrade to 3,500 watts, that ain't happening.

There's also a 10a-2p slot possibility, also resulting in Reghi/Roda getting an additional hour. Hey, good luck selling that to Rome fans.

3p-7p is the only possibility (in tandem with scooting Reghi/Roda to 9a-12p) that wouldn't attract the ire of the Bristol folk.

vjm said:
And Tony Matteo still being employed doesn't automatically mean he'll still be PD at 106.5--remember he was also the afternoon drive DJ for Mix as well, so he could still be around as merely on-air talent (maybe on either Majic or GAR).

True. But would he REALLY accept such a demotion?
 
Just to set the record straight about WKNR: Salem never did invest in WKNR. Sport talk was not the type of religion they were peddling. They literally were " stuck " with a station they didn't want in the first place. I may be wrong ( as this was quite some time ago ) but Ed Atsinger's preachers had to take the 1/2 signal 50K sports station as part of other acquisitions. It made money, considering the overhead was so low. Salem buys billboards for the religious talk hosts, not Jim Rome ya know? The " program director " for the majority of the time the station was owned by Salem was a former promotions intern named Steve Lagersky. He worked at WNCX. Had zero programming background. Eventually was fired by the Salem GM in 2004 or 2005 (?) when they did a major purge of on air staff over there. That was front page sports news in the Plain Dealer that day. 5 or 6 ( more maybe ? ) of the fulltime staff ....gone...just like that! Thats not the sign of a company that cares about product.

Funny thing is, as much as everyone here states Salem never invested in the sports property, it doesn't seem like current owners invest in it either. Drive time hosts are ESPN network shows. Mike and Mike, Rome. Someone here posted the current hosts only get paid for advertising they sell? Talk about small market compensation mondels! That sounds more like New Philadephia radio than Cleveland Ohio! more like Cleveland Tennessee
 
Tri-State Media said:
As OMW says, however, would they keep WMVX's PD in place if they were flipping to any kind of news/talk format? Nope... it simply wouldn't make sense.

Unless the expected next round of cuts comes from CC next month, I just don't see that happening.

While it is true that Matteo lost his afternoon shift (and if it's Gen-X, it won't be coming back anytime soon... Gen-X is typically run without any personalities), there's nothing that says he can't do fill-in work at WMJI or WGAR and keep the PD position for 106.5.
 
Capulet said:
Just to set the record straight about WKNR: Salem never did invest in WKNR. Sport talk was not the type of religion they were peddling. They literally were " stuck " with a station they didn't want in the first place. I may be wrong ( as this was quite some time ago ) but Ed Atsinger's preachers had to take the 1/2 signal 50K sports station as part of other acquisitions. It made money, considering the overhead was so low.

At the time, Salem owned: WCCD/1000 Parma, WHK/1420 Cleveland, WHLO/640 Akron and WHK-FM/98.1 Canton. The two stations Salem got from the AMFM/CC merger were WKNR/1220 and WRMR/850.

It was obvious from the get-go that Salem wanted 1220 for the signal alone. Weeks after the WRMR/WKNR deal was made, the three-way station ownership swap between Salem, WCLV and CC was announced. Salem got WCLV's prized 95.5 signal for "The Fish," gave up 1420 and moved WHK's call letters and religious format to 1220, displacing WKNR to 850.

WRMR was to have been shut down for good, already having been badly overrun with brokered talk in afternoon drive and much of the weekend. But the public outcry forced Salem to sell the intellectual property to WCLV at the very last minute (1420 was to have been the primary home for classical, with 104.9 as the West Side-only simulcast).

It was all about getting the Christian talk/teaching on 1220. And if WCLV never gave up on WRMR as quickly as they did, 850 would be conservatalk with the Salem Radio Network right now.

Oh, and I did hear once that Salem did build studios for WKNR at their Independence facility back in 2004 or so. Looked to be a done deal. Then Salem reneged at the last minute for unknown reasons, forcing WKNR to stay at the badly antiquated Broadview Heights complex.

Capulet said:
Salem buys billboards for the religious talk hosts, not Jim Rome ya know?

They did buy *one* billboard for WKNR. In 2004. And that was it. ;)

Capulet said:
Funny thing is, as much as everyone here states Salem never invested in the sports property, it doesn't seem like current owners invest in it either.  Drive time hosts are ESPN network shows. Mike and Mike, Rome. Someone here posted the current hosts only get paid for advertising they sell?  Talk about small market compensation mondels! That sounds more like New Philadephia radio than Cleveland Ohio!  more like Cleveland Tennessee

I do know that the LeCharles Bentley/Je'Rod Cherry hour at 7pm is brokered time - it was when the show launched on KNR2 last year, so it made sense to place it on a weeknight basis. Obviously that's not the case with the rest of the schedule, but such arrangements wouldn't shock me.

Airing M&M, however, is more due to the terms of the ESPN Radio affiliation agreement. Until recently, M&M was deemed a "must-carry" show for almost all affiliates - if you couldn't carry it, then it had to be either Cowherd and/or Van Pelt. That went away after ESPN was forced to affiliate with WEEI in Boston, which is all-local, all day, and syndicated at that.

Chances are Munch would take the 6a-9a slot - easily - if it weren't for that provision.
 
Scott Fybush said:
Fact: CC Cleveland had the opportunity to add a second spoken-word format to its roster a few years back, on what would instantly have been the second-best AM signal in the market after 1100.

Fact: Local management at CC Cleveland chose not to pursue that move (much to the relief of the people of greater Wheeling), and they chose not to pursue that move because they didn't think a second spoken-word station would be a money-maker.

I beg to differ with you on this. A second talk or sports station could have been a moneymaker if run with a lot of syndicated programming and sharing resources with WTAM. They dropped it because of the political pressure not to take the station out of Wheeling.

Reasonably Informed Speculation: CC Cleveland still doesn't have a second spoken-word format that would be a significant money-maker. Fox Sports Radio ("Superstation KLAC," if you're Nate) ain't it, for sure. So if WTAM moves to 106.5, there's no money-maker to slide over to 1100 to replace it. This is a different scenario from, for instance, Bonneville's AM-to-FM moves - in Phoenix, they had a sports AM on a lousy signal that was able to upgrade to KTAR's former 620 spot; in Seattle, they snagged the ESPN Radio affiliation for KIRO's 710; in DC, they had the niche (but very profitable) Federal News Radio to upgrade to WTOP's old 1500.

Again I disagree. CC has four spoken word stations in Cincinnati.... N/T WLW, Talk WKRC, plus two sports stations WCKY and WSAI. WKRC is quite successful ratings-wise.


Specific Observation: Compared to other big broadcasters, CC has been especially cautious about moving its AMs to FMs unless and until it's a screaming necessity. Here's the math: Can a WTAM simulcast on AM and FM (full or partial) produce enough revenue to exceed what's now being produced by WTAM on AM and WMVX on FM combined, or what would be produced by WTAM on AM and a "Gen-X" on FM combined? Is there reason to believe that demographic trends will make WTAM unviable on AM in the short term?

I agree with you here. WTAM has actually been growing in the 25-54 demo with significant growth with women 25-44 in mornings with the advent of PPM.

Reasonably Informed Conclusion: There's not going to be a WTAM-FM, and 106.5 will emerge with some sort of music format.

Again I agree. My money is on some sort of Gen-X concept. Gen-X is where the oldies format was in the late 80's and early 90's. You have echo-boomers that listened to 80's and 90's music in High School and College.... and now they're moving into their 30's.
 
SonoSational18 said:
Again I agree. My money is on some sort of Gen-X concept. Gen-X is where the oldies format was in the late 80's and early 90's. You have echo-boomers that listened to 80's and 90's music in High School and College.... and now they're moving into their 30's.

Although I have to admit, it's still hard for me to imagine that Hanson, The Spice Girls, Debbie Gibson, Garbage and Snow could be considered "oldies" at this point. ;) :eek:
 
It's worth noting that according to the PPM numbers listed on radio-info, WKNR is seeing their largest numbers in years.

Also interesting, last month WMVX beat WQAL 6+
 
Wow, this is gonna take forever. Pack a lunch, and I'll have to do non-tagged quoting...because the replies are from two pages:

vjm:
Rizzo kinda let the cat out of the bag a couple of days ago that the show would be expanding.

This is just my guess, but that would probably mean merely giving Rizzo an extra hour (8 a.m. - noon) with M&M going 8 - 10am on KNR2. I can't see Rizzo wanting a 4 a.m. wake-up call.

He did it for many years on WMJI, and now, he's about to not have a TV job on the other end.

That said, I don't see the Worldwide Leader being happy about only two hours of M&M being on the big signal. If 1540 were better? Maybe. We'll see how it shakes out...you may be correct in your guess.

vjm:
One more thing...If CC wanted to make Mix more Gen-X, they could have done it simply by infusing more 90's tunes in the playlist without changing their name or firing their DJs.

As I pointed out to your reply in the comments, maybe we're all reading a bit too much into this stunting, and how it affects what shows up on the other side. Maybe all Oak Tree wants to do is get attention, which the 106.5 stunt is certainly doing. Maybe it's a holiday week and they're bored. :D

vjm:
You also said CC doesn't put Rush on FM...WPGB 102.7 in Pittsburgh would like a word with you.

No, if that's what I said, WPGB 104.7 Pittsburgh would have that word with me. ;) But I apologize for this wording:

me:
Interesting idea, and it does put Rush on FM ("Rush Radio 106.5", anyone?)...but...I don't think CC does that, at all.

What I meant was, "does" in terms of this current stunt's aftermath, from your preceding quote talking about all local talk on 1100 and all syndie talk on 106.5.

I'm well aware that CC has Rush on a number of stations on the FM band, and indeed, my "Rush Radio 106.5, anyone?" quote was referring to current Rush Radio FM outlets in Greensboro and New Orleans.

My apologies, again, for the tortured wording.

vjm:
And Tony Matteo still being employed doesn't automatically mean he'll still be PD at 106.5--remember he was also the afternoon drive DJ for Mix as well, so he could still be around as merely on-air talent (maybe on either Majic or GAR).

Don't see that happening, frankly, though didn't Daune have one VTing shift on each?

Nah, if he were gone, he would have been out the door in that same announcement as Daune and Jay, or they've have announced his fate ("Tony will remain on-board helping our sister stations") or something of the sort. Not a word about him in the memo that flew its way into the OMW World Headquarters via carrier pigeon.

The only solution, IMHO, is that he's programming the new 106.5, be it GenX or whatever, and his services would not at all be necessary with a news/talk/sports format.

dannykewl:
OK, I'm going out on a limb here, and am prolly wrong, but maybe WMVX will become WXEN again (if the calls are available) and do some kind of "nostalgia" format, Adult Standards, and/or mixed nostalgia/contemporary/ethnic blocks. Polkas in their playlist now! Remember they were the "Station of the nations" at one time. A lot of polkas back then.

I heard another polka today, and was also reminded of WXEN! Frankie Yankovic probably got some play on WXEN, no? And here his music returns to 106.5.

But...it won't happen unless CC is forced to give up all their stations for a song, and the tune is being bought by the widow of the owner of Cortland's WKTX/830...Mrs. Kossanyi?

AntDog152:
Sports-talk might not have the most overall listeners, but they drew many advertisers because they attract males 25-54 and guys who will watch the Browns every sunday even when they're not good.

But WTAM already has the actual Browns games (along with FM/primary flagship WMMS) and talks about them on both Triv's show and on "Wills and Snyder", and on "Weekend Sportsline". CC doesn't need to add to that, particularly when it could sap some juice out of the (Northeast Ohio) "Big One".
 
Nathan--

I was comparing the rosters as a whole. Pound for pound, 2010 wins

But I would swap Hammer (buddies with the owner) and "Negative Ned" Fedor (works long hours cheaply) for Jeff Thomas and Darryl Ruiter in a second.

And they are not putting Rizz vs Triv...no way, no how.

And ESPN would be happier if 1540 dumped all their Fox programming and became 100% ESPN Radio, thus they could take Mike and Mike from 8-10 over there (they'd still have 6-8 on 850).

And as far as Tony Matteo goes, he may not be happy with a demotion, but he also has to eat as well.
 
Talk about a thread gone wild!
Format flip flogged and blogged.

Most sports talk stations have at least one play by play " franchise ".
To me, that's the way to do these " talk about firing the coach for 3 months " content stations best.
So it's been over a decade since KNR had one ? To me a good sports-talker needs that franchise for cred. It needs ad dollars to fund the rights fees and with excess pay the reporters/hosts for the coverage of the non franchise sports. The math for this these days in the current market at an operation like KNR says that owner buying rights ( Cavs-Brns-Inds) is more than upside down and unlikely. Looks like they stay the course for now.

In a city this rich with 3 major franchises the sports talk station is horridly deficient of entertainment value. Outside the network talent, its been like that for a long long time.

By the way, take the sport option out of the Mix.
 
vjm said:
Nathan--

I was comparing the rosters as a whole. Pound for pound, 2010 wins

But I would swap Hammer (buddies with the owner) and "Negative Ned" Fedor (works long hours cheaply) for Jeff Thomas and Darryl Ruiter in a second.

And they are not putting Rizz vs Triv...no way, no how.

Rizz vs. Triv would be a battle I'd love to see IMHO. At least for the sake of trying to beat WTAM at their own game, as Rizz's show is heavily laden with gimmicks and entertainment than nuts 'n bolts talk, plus is structurally similar to Triv's with an assembly of sidekicks (even though Gohman, Jennifer and Seth run rings around Ned and Aaron without trying).

I'd make that move in a heartbeat, but then again, that's why I'm NOT the program director. ;)

vjm said:
And ESPN would be happier if 1540 dumped all their Fox programming and became 100% ESPN Radio, thus they could take Mike and Mike from 8-10 over there (they'd still have 6-8 on 850).

Well, there WAS a reason why ESPN canceled their contract with Salem/WKNR in 2006 to align with Craig and WWGK, even though the station was a daytime and had no realistic promotion or listenership during the four months WWGK was the primary affiliate.

WWGK's big problem actually is more acute that simply being a daytime at the high end of the AM dial. During the sunrise hour, whenever that takes places, the signal is literally blotted out by KXEL/Waterloo because of the ionosphere conditions. (Heck, I even DXed KXEL once from Wild West Avon... at 10AM!) If you aren't in downtown Cleveland, you can't pick up KNR2 at all during that timeframe.

Craig has held a CP to upgrade WWGK from 1,000 watts to 3,500 watts at the WKNR plant in Warrensville Heights for a few years now... I have no idea if progress has even been made on that, but if it is, then that would pacify the Bristol Folks a bit to allow the "Rizz at 8am" start, as it were, to proceed.

vjm said:
And as far as Tony Matteo goes, he may not be happy with a demotion, but he also has to eat as well.

We shall see. I can't think of any open slots at WMJI or WGAR for him to fill. (Daune was primarily doing fill-in on either of those stations after concentrating on WMVX a few years back.)

Although with her departure, the Public Service position that the cluster created for her is now vacant.
 
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