More ahooga horns were sold for cars last year than HD Radios.

[clouseau]

when I'm in my car I am the typical listener as I'm not DXing, I want to be entertained in some way or other, I like WWKB

Yo! KB15 in Massachusettes? Snap here! You seem to be playing a semantics game about DXing. As an amateur radio guy I can see that, I guess. Since you don't string a longwire between your house and your car and sit there for hours at a time trying to pull in a stray ID out of the grass, you think you're NOT a DXer.

WRONG!

If you are trying to listen to WWKB in Massachusettes, BY DEFINITION, you are a dxer. WWKB has no financial stake in whether "YOU" listen to them in MA or not. They don't care. RADIO as an industry really doesn't care. When you listen to WWKB in Massachesettes, you are not the target. And you sure as heck aren't "the typical listener". You repeating that "YOU ARE NOT A DXER" many times over doesn't make it true.

Reality, please.

Clouseau

 

[Radioman100]

when I'm in my car I am the typical listener as I'm not DXing, I want to be entertained in some way or other, I like WWKB

Yo! KB15 in Massachusettes? Snap here! You seem to be playing a semantics game about DXing. As an amateur radio guy I can see that, I guess. Since you don't string a longwire between your house and your car and sit there for hours at a time trying to pull in a stray ID out of the grass, you think you're NOT a DXer.

WRONG!

If you are trying to listen to WWKB in Massachusettes, BY DEFINITION, you are a dxer. WWKB has no financial stake in whether "YOU" listen to them in MA or not. They don't care. RADIO as an industry really doesn't care. When you listen to WWKB in Massachesettes, you are not the target. And you sure as heck aren't "the typical listener". You repeating that "YOU ARE NOT DXER" many times over doesn't make it true.

Reality, please.

Clouseau

KB is a DXer. He has said as much. The DXers are on a mission from God to post as much negative misinformation about HD Radio as possible. Greg Smith of Olney, MD (the incessant link poster) is also a DXer.

They have the mistaken impression that their online activities will somehow impact the success of HD Radio.

 

[KB1OKL]

Well, then was my father a DXer when he was in the army and used to listen to WBZ in North Carolina? Are truckers dXers when they listen to AM stations from 800 miles away? I don't think so. A DXer by definition is a person who sits in front of a radio and listens for long distance radio signals for the purpose of hearing far way signals for their own sake. Most couldn't care less what the content is unless of course you have to listen to an hour of the Kidney channel for an ID. If you enjoy the content (not very often these days) that is a bonus.
I don't care if I am within or out of a station's protected contour or not when I listen to it. I feel we should have a right to listen to anything we want without another station jamming these stations and feeling they have a right to do so because they are being listened to outside of the protected contour.
Why does WBAP brag about covering 38 states? or WJR "Nighttime coverage includes 38 states, seven provinces of Canada and many Scandinavian countries including Denmark" Don't these stations realize they are intruding upon areas where they don't belong? Call the FCC cops, Boy Chief Kevy Martin can lead the brigade of FCC rent-a-cops. What about the 100% coverage of the US for truckers by 50 kw stations called Midnight Trucking? Is this a mass mobile DX club that I've never heard of?? I wonder if iBlock has anything to do with this network recently going to XM also?
I don't believe I am doing anything for the cause of getting rid of IBOC by posting here, I just can't believe how sheltered some of you here are, that you can't see the destruction brought about by IBOC on radio, especially on the AM band. I also can't believe that the IBOC alliance was the biggest advertiser on radio last year spending more than Geico and still no one outside of a small circle of friends* even knows it exists.

*Phil Ochs (I want to make sure I credit that line) ;D

 

[Radioman100]

Well, then was my father a DXer when he was in the army and used to listen to WBZ in North Carolina? Are truckers dXers when they listen to AM stations from 800 miles away? I don't think so. A DXer by definition is a person who sits in front of a radio and listens for long distance radio signals for the purpose of hearing far way signals for their own sake. Most couldn't care less what the content is unless of course you have to listen to an hour of the Kidney channel for an ID. If you enjoy the content (not very often these days) that is a bonus.
I don't care if I am within or out of a station's protected contour or not when I listen to it. I feel we should have a right to listen to anything we want without another station jamming these stations and feeling they have a right to do so because they are being listened to outside of the protected contour.
Why does WBAP brag about covering 38 states? or WJR "Nighttime coverage includes 38 states, seven provinces of Canada and many Scandinavian countries including Denmark" Don't these stations realize they are intruding upon areas where they don't belong? Call the FCC cops, Boy Chief Kevy Martin can lead the brigade of FCC rent-a-cops. What about the 100% coverage of the US for truckers by 50 kw stations called Midnight Trucking? Is this a mass mobile DX club that I've never heard of?? I wonder if iBlock has anything to do with this network recently going to XM also?
I don't believe I am doing anything for the cause of getting rid of IBOC by posting here, I just can't believe how sheltered some of you here are, that you can't see the destruction brought about by IBOC on radio, especially on the AM band. I also can't believe that the IBOC alliance was the biggest advertiser on radio last year spending more than Geico and still no one outside of a small circle of friends* even knows it exists.

*Phil Ochs (I want to make sure I credit that line) ;D

Have you been to a truck stop lately? I'd be willing to bet virtually every long haul trucker has satellite radio.

Midnight Trucking - XM channel 171.

 

[Tom Wells]

You'd lose that bet. And XM 171 is a poor imitation of what you'd get from a regional ( meaning 30-odd states) terrestial radio station
in this context. I'd be willing to bet you've never listened to many trucker shows, or you'd know XM, even with Bill Mack, is not the
same thing at all as when it was delivered on real RADIO.

I drive a lot of long distances, and do talk to many truck drivers. Sat rad is not anywhere near total acceptance.

Those who listen to whatever they choose are NOT DXers unless the whole point of such listening is the thrill of the catch.
If they listen for content, they are the listeners radio no longer wants to recognize as part of their market.
If you don't want distant listeners to hear you, cut back power to levels that will only serve your so-called "market".
Overcoming locally generated noise is NOT the station's problem, it's the listeners'.


Semantics?
DX is NOT the stuff you can listen to dependably. It's the freak reception.
Listening to Buffalo NY in Massachusetts is only REGIONAL reception. Nothing noteworthy. It's what radio DOES.
And people have been using it that way for some 80 years, with continued expectation that this is how radio behaves.
Until the FCC changed the rules of the game.

 

[KB1OKL]

You'd lose that bet. And XM 171 is a poor imitation of what you'd get from a regional ( meaning 30-odd states) terrestial radio station
in this context. I'd be willing to bet you've never listened to many trucker shows, or you'd know XM, even with Bill Mack, is not the
same thing at all as when it was delivered on real RADIO.

I also did mention XM also but did not know it was different than over air reception

I drive a lot of long distances, and do talk to many truck drivers. Sat rad is not anywhere near total acceptance.

Those who listen to whatever they choose are NOT DXers unless the whole point of such listening is the thrill of the catch.

Exactly, also as I wrote before

If they listen for content, they are the listeners radio no longer wants to recognize as part of their market.
If you don't want distant listeners to hear you, cut back power to levels that will only serve your so-called "market".
Overcoming locally generated noise is NOT the station's problem, it's the listeners'.


Semantics?
DX is NOT the stuff you can listen to dependably. It's the freak reception.
Listening to Buffalo NY in Massachusetts is only REGIONAL reception. Nothing noteworthy. It's what radio DOES.
And people have been using it that way for some 80 years, with continued expectation that this is how radio behaves.
Until the FCC changed the rules of the game.

Again exactly as I wrote earlier, you can be both a listener and a DXer, I was a listener long before I dxed. I can remember gluing my ears to the radio when I was ten years old when the Beatles first broke. I would go up and down the dial at night of my father's 5 tube AC-DC Motorola looking specifically for Beatles songs or anything that sounded like them, learning all about 60's pop music in the process, I didn't care what the station was, I just wanted more magical Beatles tunes. I still listen quite a bit, I had Toronto's CHWO 740 on in my car last night, nice eclectic mix of swing, country music, old rock, crooners, etc, great station. I also do a lot of driving and listen quite a bit to both FM and AM, on FM I listen almost exclusively to NPR stations although they can get tiresome pretty easily, I listen to AM probably 90
% of the time as I'm not limited by line of site propagation at least up to this point and I still find more of a variety on AM even if I have to listen to Canadian stations to get it. A lot of people (non DXer's) also know this and listen to AM as you don't have to change the station every hour as you're driving

 

[SUPERCASTER]

when I'm in my car I am the typical listener as I'm not DXing, I want to be entertained in some way or other, I like WWKB

Yo! KB15 in Massachusettes? Snap here! You seem to be playing a semantics game about DXing. As an amateur radio guy I can see that, I guess. Since you don't string a longwire between your house and your car and sit there for hours at a time trying to pull in a stray ID out of the grass, you think you're NOT a DXer.

WRONG!

If you are trying to listen to WWKB in Massachusettes, BY DEFINITION, you are a dxer. WWKB has no financial stake in whether "YOU" listen to them in MA or not. They don't care. RADIO as an industry really doesn't care. When you listen to WWKB in Massachesettes, you are not the target. And you sure as heck aren't "the typical listener". You repeating that "YOU ARE NOT DXER" many times over doesn't make it true.

Reality, please.

Clouseau

KB is a DXer. He has said as much. The DXers are on a mission from God to post as much negative misinformation about HD Radio as possible. Greg Smith of Olney, MD (the incessant link poster) is also a DXer.
They have the mistaken impression that their online activities will somehow impact the success of HD Radio.

Virtually all HD radio listeners are, by necessity, DXers. The low power HD radio signals are so weak more then a few miles from the transmitter that using carefully oriented extra antennas are almost mandatory for reliable HD radio reception. HD radio's poor signal and building penetration often necessitate extraordinary means to keep a steady lock on the HD signal.

You unscrupulously keep stalking and outing posters here in your continuing campaign to falsely discredit and vilify HD radio opponents. Clearly a desperate tactic of unprincipled demagogues who have no substantive discussion to offer.

 

[R.F. Burns]

How can you make such a statement when you don't even own a radio. What are you basing your comments on, something you read somewhere? If you can't bring more to the table than you do why not spend your time DXing while uyou still can before time runs out on you.

"You unscrupulously keep stalking and outing posters here in your continuing campaign to falsely discredit and vilify HD radio opponents"


Not me, but I'd suggest that the only one who is being discredited is you. Consider it a badge of honor for being the one here who is least likely to play well with other classmates.

 

[SUPERCASTER]

How can you make such a statement when you don't even own a radio. What are you basing your comments on, something you read somewhere? If you can't bring more to the table than you do why not spend your time DXing while uyou still can before time runs out on you.

"You unscrupulously keep stalking and outing posters here in your continuing campaign to falsely discredit and vilify HD radio opponents"


Not me, but I'd suggest that the only one who is being discredited is you. Consider it a badge of honor for being the one here who is least likely to play well with other classmates.

I'm sure everyone here owns at least one radio, and most can hear the additional new HD radio interference.

I'm delighted not to be in your class, thanks.

 

[KB1OKL]

On no!!! I thought I was in the closet! ;D

As I wrote here earlier in another post, the hard core HD people here are like little boys whistling in the dark so as to not be afraid of what's out there in the darkness. The only difference is that the little boys are afraid of essentially nothing except what is in their imaginations, on the other hand The pro-IBOCer's are afraid of the truth. I can understand where they are coming from, it is their livelihood and it seems some here have invested their careers in this lead balloon unfortunately. I wish no one ill will here, I hope they all get high paying jobs in satellite or back on an analog station where they belong.

 

[Radioman100]

You unscrupulously keep stalking and outing posters here in your continuing campaign to falsely discredit and vilify HD radio opponents. Clearly a desperate tactic of unprincipled demagogues who have no substantive discussion to offer.

Stalking? Get real. The guy outed himself, probably when Radio World wouldn't print his rants under one of his screen names, PocketRadio, 700WLW, etc. His style of writing (if you can call it that, it's just a useless collection of links and smiley faces) is unmistakable.

I find it amusing that words like "unscrupulously" are being directed at me here and elsewhere on the web. I find the Radio Racket's obsession with me to be very gratifying, and the coarse but juvenile language they use to describe me hilarious. I never really set out to be the object of so much impassioned discussion, nor did I think it was even possible given the position most of the hardcore anti-IBOC people take, that HD Radio will fail.

Clearly, there is a lot of concern among the DXers and webcasters of the world that HD Radio will not fail, else they wouldn't be wasting countless hours on anti-HD propaganda.

 

[Play Freebird]

Listening to Buffalo NY in Massachusetts is only REGIONAL reception. Nothing noteworthy. It's what radio DOES.
And people have been using it that way for some 80 years, with continued expectation that this is how radio behaves.
Until the FCC changed the rules of the game.

AFAIK, the FCC has not changed those rules. WWKB is a Class A station and is entitled to nighttime interference protection to the 0.5 mV/m-50% skywave contour, per 47CFR73.182. Worcester should receive a median skywave signal of about 0.88 mV/m from WWKB, so that part of Massachusetts is considered part of their secondary service area.

 

[KB1OKL]

You unscrupulously keep stalking and outing posters here in your continuing campaign to falsely discredit and vilify HD radio opponents. Clearly a desperate tactic of unprincipled demagogues who have no substantive discussion to offer.

Stalking? Get real. The guy outed himself, probably when Radio World wouldn't print his rants under one of his screen names, PocketRadio, 700WLW, etc. His style of writing (if you can call it that, it's just a useless collection of links and smiley faces) is unmistakable.

Clearly, there is a lot of concern among the DXers and webcasters of the world that HD Radio will not fail, else they wouldn't be wasting countless hours on anti-HD propaganda.

You're mistaking me for someone else, I know who you're talking about but KB1OKL is my ham license number and I've never registered here under any other screen name, no actually I think I registered under my own name once but forgot about it or something like that, I have nothing to hide. As far as outing me, I would think that radio people would recognize ham licenses when they see them and most amateur radio operators are DXers. What is wrong with being a DXer anyway?
Actually I have a 100 watt all tube ham AM transmitter that I'm thinking of converting to IBOC and thought I could get a few pointers here.

 

[KB1OKL]

Virtually all HD radio listeners are, by necessity, DXers. The low power HD radio signals are so weak more then a few miles from the transmitter that using carefully oriented extra antennas are almost mandatory for reliable HD radio reception. HD radio's poor signal and building penetration often necessitate extraordinary means to keep a steady lock on the HD signal.

Gives a whole new meaning to the term DX. I still say put retractable rotatable FM yagis on top of cars so they can receive the IBOC signal clearly, maybe even out to 30-35 miles! If they are retractable they could go under bridges... hey power yagis, what do you think, a great accessory for HD, probably make a million. It's already copy written so don't any of you think you can steal my idea now.

 

[RichWood]

If you are trying to listen to WWKB in Massachusettes, BY DEFINITION, you are a dxer. WWKB has no financial stake in whether "YOU" listen to them in MA or not. They don't care. RADIO as an industry really doesn't care. When you listen to WWKB in Massachesettes, you are not the target. And you sure as heck aren't "the typical listener". You repeating that "YOU ARE NOT A DXER" many times over doesn't make it true.

Not necessarily. Growing up in Western Massachusetts many people in the area listened to Joey Reynolds on WKBW (their old calls) every night. It's about 400 miles. The signal was at least as strong as the locals. If one of us had a diary WKBW would have gotten credit. It wouldn't be important to a Buffalo advertiser but would be included in determining network buys.

I always thought DXing was trying to receive weak distant signals. WKBW wasn't weak. Receivers then were much better and there was less man-made noise. Today it would be DXing.

WWWT, Washington (formerly WTOP-AM) comes in like a local at night. I wouldn't consider that to be DXing.

On the couple of occasions when WWWT left their digital on at night it wiped out a small local at 1490 in its own Western Massachusetts market.

Also, the original estimate of 450,000 digital receiver sold was downgraded to 400,000 by, I believe, Bridge Ratings. The combined total claimed for marketing is $630 million. All that to sell 400,000 radios doesn't sound very effective.

 

[KB1OKL]

Not necessarily. Growing up in Western Massachusetts many people in the area listened to Joey Reynolds on WKBW (their old calls) every night. It's about 400 miles. The signal was at least as strong as the locals. If one of us had a diary WKBW would have gotten credit. It wouldn't be important to a Buffalo advertiser but would be included in determining network buys.

I always thought DXing was trying to receive weak distant signals. WKBW wasn't weak. Receivers then were much better and there was less man-made noise. Today it would be DXing.

WWWT, Washington (formerly WTOP-AM) comes in like a local at night. I wouldn't consider that to be DXing.

On the couple of occasions when WWWT left their digital on at night it wiped out a small local at 1490 in its own Western Massachusetts market.

Actually WWKB comes in here in central MA very good at night, is still a very reliable signal in my car except on occasion when WCKY Cincinnatti wipes it out with their IBOC, also in my car. This is not a common occurrence but it happens enough that I complained to WWKB, thought they'd like to know. Joey Reynolds is still on KB and does the overnights although it's simulcast from WOR.

 

[Radioman100]

Also, the original estimate of 450,000 digital receiver sold was downgraded to 400,000 by, I believe, Bridge Ratings. The combined total claimed for marketing is $630 million. All that to sell 400,000 radios doesn't sound very effective.

Which mall did they do a survey at to arrive at that revelation? If you believe anything Bridge Ratings says, I have a bridge I'd love to sell you!

 

[KB1OKL]

Also, the original estimate of 450,000 digital receiver sold was downgraded to 400,000 by, I believe, Bridge Ratings. The combined total claimed for marketing is $630 million. All that to sell 400,000 radios doesn't sound very effective.

Which mall did they do a survey at to arrive at that revelation? If you believe anything Bridge Ratings says, I have a bridge I'd love to sell you!

Yeah, I thought 400,000 sounded a little optimistic myself.

 

[Chuck]

If you are trying to listen to WWKB in Massachusettes, BY DEFINITION, you are a dxer. WWKB has no financial stake in whether "YOU" listen to them in MA or not. They don't care. RADIO as an industry really doesn't care. When you listen to WWKB in Massachesettes, you are not the target. And you sure as heck aren't "the typical listener". You repeating that "YOU ARE NOT A DXER" many times over doesn't make it true.

Not necessarily. Growing up in Western Massachusetts many people in the area listened to Joey Reynolds on WKBW (their old calls) every night. It's about 400 miles. The signal was at least as strong as the locals. If one of us had a diary WKBW would have gotten credit. It wouldn't be important to a Buffalo advertiser but would be included in determining network buys.

I always thought DXing was trying to receive weak distant signals. WKBW wasn't weak. Receivers then were much better and there was less man-made noise. Today it would be DXing.

WWWT, Washington (formerly WTOP-AM) comes in like a local at night. I wouldn't consider that to be DXing.

On the couple of occasions when WWWT left their digital on at night it wiped out a small local at 1490 in its own Western Massachusetts market.

Also, the original estimate of 450,000 digital receiver sold was downgraded to 400,000 by, I believe, Bridge Ratings. The combined total claimed for marketing is $630 million. All that to sell 400,000 radios doesn't sound very effective.

Back in Dallas in the 1960's, a lot of people tuned in WLS as soon as it got dark. That’s hardly local, but it came in fine on "average" radios. This was completely a content driven decision, not from any desire to pick up a signal from a distant city. Mostly, it was because KBOX, which had been Top 40, flipped to country leaving KLIF as the only Top 40 station in the market. A lot of people wanted to hear something else. Besides KLIF had a talk show it the evenings, so if you wanted music, you had to look for it.

A lot of the girls I dated liked WLS. If you wanted to get even vaguely "lucky" the radio played whatever the "little lady wanted." I don't believe any of them thought for a moment that they were "DXing." Watching "submarine races..." Maybe.

 

[Radioman100]

Back in Dallas in the 1960's, a lot of people tuned in WLS as soon as it got dark. That’s hardly local, but it came in fine on "average" radios. This was completely a content driven decision, not from any desire to pick up a signal from a distant city. Mostly, it was because KBOX, which had been Top 40, flipped to country leaving KLIF as the only Top 40 station in the market. A lot of people wanted to hear something else. Besides KLIF had a talk show it the evenings, so if you wanted music, you had to look for it.

A lot of the girls I dated liked WLS. If you wanted to get even vaguely "lucky" the radio played whatever the "little lady wanted." I don't believe any of them thought for a moment that they were "DXing." Watching "submarine races..." Maybe.

KLIF also had an extremely narrow nighttime directional pattern. I have to think listening to WLS would have been preferable to listening to static in much of DFW.

My parents grew up listening to KOMA after dark from well outside Oklahoma City. How does that relate to today at all? It doesn't.