More ahooga horns were sold for cars last year than HD Radios.

[Chuck]

KLIF also had an extremely narrow nighttime directional pattern. I have to think listening to WLS would have been preferable to listening to static in much of DFW.

Actually, that was before KLIF put up their incredibly directional array in Greenville. They came in fine where I was, but it was about content, not reception problems.

How it relates today is people still spin the dial in search of a song or program they want to hear. Where the signal is coming from or how it is getting to their radio is not something most people are concerned with.

 

[Play Freebird]

[
Actually I have a 100 watt all tube ham AM transmitter that I'm thinking of converting to IBOC and thought I could get a few pointers here.

iBiquity's lawyers wouldn't approve of that unless you obtain written permission to use their "intellectual property" (which will probably require money changing hands). The HD Codec is proprietary, not an open standard, and I doubt iBiquity would be willing to let a ham experiment with it at no charge any more than they allow non-commercial broadcasters to have it for free. Unfortunately, this isn't Major Armstrong we're dealing with here -- iBiquity only sees big buck$ and intends to retain the IP rights forever. Any station failing to renew their annual contract will find their Importer shutting down.

If you would like to experiment with digital MW or HF transmission (an interesting thing to try) I would suggest WinDRM:

http://n1su.com/windrm/

 

[RichWood]

Also, the original estimate of 450,000 digital receiver sold was downgraded to 400,000 by, I believe, Bridge Ratings. The combined total claimed for marketing is $630 million. All that to sell 400,000 radios doesn't sound very effective.

Which mall did they do a survey at to arrive at that revelation? If you believe anything Bridge Ratings says, I have a bridge I'd love to sell you!

I have no idea. The bottom line is the "official" estimate of 500,000 receivers can't be supported, either. Even if it's legit, it a tiny part of the 800,000,000 existing receivers generally accepted to be in use. It's a terribly expensive radio if $630 million in distressed inventory can only sell 500,00 of them over several years. I wouldn't expect someone so wildly supportive of this technology to accept any data that won't support the assumption it's the salvation of radio.

This system is so bathed in secrecy that any data is suspect, especially anything contained in the glowing "revolution" press releases oozing out of Ogilvy.

Since you hide behind a pseudonym I have no idea who you are or how I'd contact you to buy a brigge. I can't even find substantiation for your claims of awesome programming success.

 

[Radioman100]

I have no idea. The bottom line is the "official" estimate of 500,000 receivers can't be supported, either. Even if it's legit, it a tiny part of the 800,000,000 existing receivers generally accepted to be in use. It's a terribly expensive radio if $630 million in distressed inventory can only sell 500,00 of them over several years. I wouldn't expect someone so wildly supportive of this technology to accept any data that won't support the assumption it's the salvation of radio.

I see the system for what it is. It's a delivery mechanism for more programming choices, nothing more, nothing less. The problem with the ad campaign to date is it has done nothing to sell those additional programming choices. Nobody in their right mind would plunk down $200 to buy a radio that receives something without the faintest idea what that something might be.

This system is so bathed in secrecy that any data is suspect, especially anything contained in the glowing "revolution" press releases oozing out of Ogilvy.

Wow! They glow and ooze? Cool!

Since you hide behind a pseudonym I have no idea who you are or how I'd contact you to buy a brigge. I can't even find substantiation for your claims of awesome programming success.

Of course I use a pseudonym Rich. It keeps the loonies from the other side at some distance, and you've gotta admit Rich, they are loony. Why else would people who are absolutely convinced IBOC will fail spend so much time berating it?

Doesn't make much sense, does it Rich?

 

[Tom Wells]

I wish you could use your real name here R-100. I understand why you must feel they are loony.

I am still as mad as a wet hen about the AM, but try to keep my ranting relevant and the engineering point.
I first came here no-more no-less "anti" that I am am now.
I've made a few pretty pointed statements about corruption way back, so I guess I'm just not miltant anymore.
I am still too stingy to part with any dollar to buy another FM tuner in a place where FM is perfect.
I really only notice the insane mess of the AM.
Using my own name is the only way I have to give more weight to my argument.
Anyone can search my patents online and decide if they think have the background to support my opinion.

I don't think they're loony, rather, they are dedicated. Their job is made for them, they volunteer from the heart.
I can easily see how it looks from your perspective.

I did like the crack about the glowing and oozing.

 

[Radioman100]

I wish you could use your real name here R-100. I understand why you must feel they are loony.

I am still as mad as a wet hen about the AM, but try to keep my ranting relevant and the engineering point.
I first came here no-more no-less "anti" that I am am now.
I've made a few pretty pointed statements about corruption way back, so I guess I'm just not miltant anymore.
I am still too stingy to part with any dollar to buy another FM tuner in a place where FM is perfect.
I really only notice the insane mess of the AM.
Using my own name is the only way I have to give more weight to my argument.
Anyone can search my patents online and decide if they think have the background to support my opinion.

I don't think they're loony, rather, they are dedicated. Their job is made for them, they volunteer from the heart.
I can easily see how it looks from your perspective.

I did like the crack about the glowing and oozing.

At one time I did post on another site using my real name. It was long before I became so dedicated to my side of the argument. At the time, I was warned there was a mentally unstable individual on the opposing side who had called some of the more vocal pro-HD people at work, called their bosses and had threatened violence.

Thanks, but I don't need that grief in my life.

 

[clouseau]

Well, then was my father a DXer when he was in the army and used to listen to WBZ in North Carolina? Are truckers dXers when they listen to AM stations from 800 miles away?

By definition YES. They are not listening to "Local" stations, they are listening to "Distant" stations. DX is an abbreviation for Distant.

A DXer by definition is a person who sits in front of a radio and listens for long distance radio signals for the purpose of hearing far way signals for their own sake. Most couldn't care less what the content is unless of course you have to listen to an hour of the Kidney channel for an ID. If you enjoy the content (not very often these days) that is a bonus.

I would not argue that individual is a DXer. However by definition if you listen to Distant aka DX, You are a DXer. Not harcore, but that IS you. (And many times me.)

I don't care if I am within or out of a station's protected contour or not when I listen to it. I feel we should have a right to listen to anything we want without another station jamming these stations and feeling they have a right to do so because they are being listened to outside of the protected contour.

You're a ham as am I. SO you know that propagation is better in the bottom of the AM band than the top. On any night, you can ROUTINELY hear 1KW stations in the expanded band from over 500 KM away. Let's apply your "I feel we should have a right to listen to anything we want without another station jamming stations and feeling they have a right to do so because they are being listened to outside of the protected contour..." to 1240 WHMQ Greeneville, MA. Now this station is lower than the expanded band, so it would actually require MORE protection than those, but let's just say we protect it to 500 KM. That means we need to sign off the following stations, all co channel on 1240... at night.

|WWCO |WATERBURY |CT
|WEZR |LEWISTON |ME
|WSYY |MILLINOCKET |ME
|WBUR |WEST YARMOUTH |MA
|WFTN |FRANKLIN |NH
|WGBB |FREEPORT |NY
|WGVA |GENEVA |NY
|WVOS |LIBERTY |NY
|WNBZ |SARANAC LAKE |NY
|WVKZ |SCHENECTADY |NY
|WATN |WATERTOWN |NY
|WIOV |READING |PA
|WYGL |SELINSGROVE |PA
|WBAX |WILKES-BARRE |PA
|WSKI |MONTPELIER |VT
|WSNJ |BRIDGETON |NJ
|WOON |WOONSOCKET |RI
|CKBS HYACINTHE |QC |CA |-


As you can see, in order to get anything close to what you seek, protection wise, the entire band would beed to be rearranged and do the dreaded "Thinning of the herd" (Which I do not like BTW.) Otherwise, we can use these stations in the market they were intended and not try to get "sometimes" skywave. The situation you describe is very similar.

Why does WBAP brag about covering 38 states? or WJR "Nighttime coverage includes 38 states, seven provinces of Canada and many Scandinavian countries including Denmark"

Uhhhh.. MARKETING. Ever wonder how seven stations are calling themselves #1? The "In Hi fidelity Amplitude Modulation" doesn't really sell too well.

Don't these stations realize they are intruding upon areas where they don't belong?

As you most likely know, they are not intruding. Radio reaches far furthur than the protected contour. But there's no interference "Protection" hence the... Well you get it.

Call the FCC cops, Boy Chief Kevy Martin can lead the brigade of FCC rent-a-cops.

Uh.. OK

What about the 100% coverage of the US for truckers by 50 kw stations called Midnight Trucking? Is this a mass mobile DX club that I've never heard of??

For a good part of the country, yes it is. You don't need a membership card to listen to DX.

I wonder if iBlock has anything to do with this network recently going to XM also?

Undoubtedly. Bob Struble probably lobbied congress to do a closed door deal. That whole "Nationwide coverage of Satellite radio" is just a smokescreen.

On the other hand, maybe they realized that trying to get people all over the country to listen to DX doesn't work as well as Satellite. THIS is a great benefit of Sat Rad BTW.

I don't believe I am doing anything for the cause of getting rid of IBOC by posting here, I just can't believe how sheltered some of you here are, that you can't see the destruction brought about by IBOC on radio, especially on the AM band.

For the most part, it's only destructive if you use the band like you do. and YOU don't use it like the vast majority of listeners. Your "Sheltered" coment is pretty innaccurate. If AMA radio quits working, I quit eating. As I used to annoy Savage with, "I probably care more about the success of AM radio than you". I suspect NOT more than him, but I make a living from AM radio. This is a question of perspective and yours is NOT typical amongst radio listeners. That's why there is not a giant outrage about this alledged "Destruction". Because most people don't see or hear it.

I also can't believe that the IBOC alliance was the biggest advertiser on radio last year spending more than Geico and still no one outside of a small circle of friends* even knows it exists.

Is it wrecking hte band, or does no one care? Pick on or both and go with it. You just CAN NOT argue the issue from 2 sides.

Clouseau

 

[clouseau]

At one time I did post on another site using my real name. It was long before I became so dedicated to my side of the argument. At the time, I was warned there was a mentally unstable individual on the opposing side who had called some of the more vocal pro-HD people at work, called their bosses and had threatened violence.

Thanks, but I don't need that grief in my life.

Ditto to that. I USED to post my ham call in my sig. Way too scary. I have also heard first hand of some of the lunatic anti folks making threats and stalking. I've never known anyone to go after anyone on the anti side, but I suppose it may have happened. I know many people know a lot of folks' identity here. I hae always assumed Ibiquity probably knows the insanely anti outspoken. I knew of Greg and actually if you're a psycho, you can figure out almost anyone who has a wide variety of posts. Who cares.

I does give you points to ponder, though.

Clouseau

 

[KB1OKL]

Well, then was my father a DXer when he was in the army and used to listen to WBZ in North Carolina? Are truckers dXers when they listen to AM stations from 800 miles away?

By definition YES. They are not listening to "Local" stations, they are listening to "Distant" stations. DX is an abbreviation for Distant.

Yes but a DXer listens for distant stations for the thrill of it, not for content

A DXer by definition is a person who sits in front of a radio and listens for long distance radio signals for the purpose of hearing far way signals for their own sake. Most couldn't care less what the content is unless of course you have to listen to an hour of the Kidney channel for an ID. If you enjoy the content (not very often these days) that is a bonus.

I would not argue that individual is a DXer. However by definition if you listen to Distant aka DX, You are a DXer. Not harcore, but that IS you. (And many times me.)

I guess we don't agree because that makes many night time AM listeners DXers' who have never even heard the term

I don't care if I am within or out of a station's protected contour or not when I listen to it. I feel we should have a right to listen to anything we want without another station jamming these stations and feeling they have a right to do so because they are being listened to outside of the protected contour.

You're a ham as am I. SO you know that propagation is better in the bottom of the AM band than the top. On any night, you can ROUTINELY hear 1KW stations in the expanded band from over 500 KM away. Let's apply your "I feel we should have a right to listen to anything we want without another station jamming stations and feeling they have a right to do so because they are being listened to outside of the protected contour..." to 1240 WHMQ Greeneville, MA. Now this station is lower than the expanded band, so it would actually require MORE protection than those, but let's just say we protect it to 500 KM. That means we need to sign off the following stations, all co channel on 1240... at night.

|WWCO |WATERBURY |CT
|WEZR |LEWISTON |ME
|WSYY |MILLINOCKET |ME
|WBUR |WEST YARMOUTH |MA
|WFTN |FRANKLIN |NH
|WGBB |FREEPORT |NY
|WGVA |GENEVA |NY
|WVOS |LIBERTY |NY
|WNBZ |SARANAC LAKE |NY
|WVKZ |SCHENECTADY |NY
|WATN |WATERTOWN |NY
|WIOV |READING |PA
|WYGL |SELINSGROVE |PA
|WBAX |WILKES-BARRE |PA
|WSKI |MONTPELIER |VT
|WSNJ |BRIDGETON |NJ
|WOON |WOONSOCKET |RI
|CKBS HYACINTHE |QC |CA |-


As you can see, in order to get anything close to what you seek, protection wise, the entire band would beed to be rearranged and do the dreaded "Thinning of the herd" (Which I do not like BTW.) Otherwise, we can use these stations in the market they were intended and not try to get "sometimes" skywave. The situation you describe is very similar.

I did not word that very well, I am talking about adjacent channel interference and you know I am not talking about same channel interference, the band is too crowded but that is water over the dam, IBOC is not

Why does WBAP brag about covering 38 states? or WJR "Nighttime coverage includes 38 states, seven provinces of Canada and many Scandinavian countries including Denmark"

Uhhhh.. MARKETING. Ever wonder how seven stations are calling themselves #1? The "In Hi fidelity Amplitude Modulation" doesn't really sell too well.

I believe WJR can probably cover 38 states, Canada and Denmark and now you are getting into real DXing with denmark

Don't these stations realize they are intruding upon areas where they don't belong?

As you most likely know, they are not intruding. Radio reaches far furthur than the protected contour. But there's no interference "Protection" hence the... Well you get it.

That is what is one of the things that is great about AM radio it can go far, you can travel 1000 miles without changing the station at night if you want to if it is a 50Kw station

Call the FCC cops, Boy Chief Kevy Martin can lead the brigade of FCC rent-a-cops.

Uh.. OK

What about the 100% coverage of the US for truckers by 50 kw stations called Midnight Trucking? Is this a mass mobile DX club that I've never heard of??

For a good part of the country, yes it is. You don't need a membership card to listen to DX.

Again I disagree calling most truckers DXers

I wonder if iBlock has anything to do with this network recently going to XM also?

Undoubtedly. Bob Struble probably lobbied congress to do a closed door deal. That whole "Nationwide coverage of Satellite radio" is just a smokescreen.

On the other hand, maybe they realized that trying to get people all over the country to listen to DX doesn't work as well as Satellite. THIS is a great benefit of Sat Rad BTW.

I agree

I don't believe I am doing anything for the cause of getting rid of IBOC by posting here, I just can't believe how sheltered some of you here are, that you can't see the destruction brought about by IBOC on radio, especially on the AM band.

For the most part, it's only destructive if you use the band like you do. and YOU don't use it like the vast majority of listeners.

I believe I do part of the time, I don't think listening to WWKB at 400 miles is really DX as it is a regular here in MA

Your "Sheltered" coment is pretty innaccurate. If AMA radio quits working, I quit eating. As I used to annoy Savage with, "I probably care more about the success of AM radio than you". I suspect NOT more than him, but I make a living from AM radio. This is a question of perspective and yours is NOT typical amongst radio listeners. That's why there is not a giant outrage about this alledged "Destruction". Because most people don't see or hear it.

I believe they will if it gets a foothold on AM (which I don't think it will)

I also can't believe that the IBOC alliance was the biggest advertiser on radio last year spending more than Geico and still no one outside of a small circle of friends* even knows it exists.

Is it wrecking hte band, or does no one care? Pick on or both and go with it. You just CAN NOT argue the issue from 2 sides.

You don't have to know why you are getting hash on a radio to know that it sounds lousy and doesn't come in as good as it used to or maybe doesn't come in at all

Clouseau

 

[Tom Wells]

"Ahh Ooo Gah" by the Mark IV appears on podcast #14. Apologies in advance for being recorded a bit too hot.

Not much 10 khz on this one, AND an engineering quandary picture to look at.


http://thomasjwells.podOmatic.com/entry/2008-01-08T21_21_04-08_00

 

[Savage]

Just curious, Inspector - any plans for the AM station in your cluster to install HD this year?

 

[clouseau]

guess we don't agree because that makes many night time AM listeners DXers' who have never even heard the term

The typical listener does not do this. That's why DX doesn't get ratings as a rule. Just because you don't know the term, doesn't mean you're not doing it. I used to be what YOU would consider a DXer. I didn't learn the term til way after.

I did not word that very well, I am talking about adjacent channel interference and you know I am not talking about same channel interference, the band is too crowded but that is water over the dam, IBOC is not

It isn't? I thought it was part of the rules. There appear to be a few instances where it may be causing a legitimate problem, but last time I checked we weren't deciding "IF" we should allow it. It's the standard.

I believe WJR can probably cover 38 states, Canada and Denmark and now you are getting into real DXing with denmark

Just what they need in Louisiana. Radio serving Detroit.

Don't these stations realize they are intruding upon areas where they don't belong?

That is what is one of the things that is great about AM radio it can go far, you can travel 1000 miles without changing the station at night if you want to if it is a 50Kw station

This is one of the problems of AM radio. Poor sound quality not acceptable for music by the vast majority of overall listeners.

Again I disagree calling most truckers DXers

If they're listening to DX then ...

I don't think listening to WWKB at 400 miles is really DX as it is a regular here in MA

I don't think Buffalo in MA is really local either.

 

[clouseau]

Just curious, Inspector - any plans for the AM station in your cluster to install HD this year?

We do not have plans to go HD on AM at this time. This is primarily a formatic decision as opposed to technical. We may have a tech issue due to our Diplexed NonD Signal, but our install is new and has been designed to have the required bandwidth. (Theoretically)

The formatic decision is that we are alone in our talk format. Should we get enough competition and actually feel the need to move to a music format, we'd probably do it. I personally feel we'll need to see a much higher penetration of Radios which will have to be driven by the FM side for it to be right for us. IF we got to 60-75% penetration of radios, then a music format would be feasible and we might attempt it. Don't hold your breath, though.

As a talk station, we believe existing AM sound works for us, at least for now. As there is no HD AM in the market, we are not at a disadvantage. Should that change, we would probably do it.

We have actually driven a good percentage of Houston where there is a fair amount of HD AM and were impressed by the sound quality. It's about the money really. We are definitely going at the decision process eyes open, though.

Clouseau