Mother of mercy, is this the end of local talk radio (as we know it)?

[ABQTom]

I agree with one exception: "... the conservative niche at this time is bigger and more successful." The polls don't reflect that. And there are markets which skew heavily liberal in which the liberal niche is much larger (the reverse is true, too). Liberals don't seem to gravitate to political talk radio the way conservatives do. A dogmatic, demagogic "preaching" style, the politics of anger and radio have always jibed - back to Father Coughlin and before.

Search for Richard Florida's "Creative Class Index" - cities with a higher creative class do the best for Progressive Talk Stations when you compare to the 12+ and 25-54 numbers. Prof. Florida takes many factors into consideration when calculating the number for each market.

Seattle, San Francisco, Portland, Albuquerque, Denver, L.A., right there at the top for liberal talk, and all have high Creative Class scores.

Whenever Ed says, "We're beating Hannity in such and such," you can guarantee that market has a score of over 750.

http://creativeclass.typepad.com/thecreativityexchange/2007/11/bicycling-and-c.html

and many other web sites, popular guy.

 

[cm454]

ENOUGH with the "you wouldn't play an alternative artist next to a country artist" BS.

Theses examples are all FALSE analogies.

People who like a specific kind of music WOULD have a problem with that, as you say, but what seems to escape many about the spoken word format, is that MOST people have opinions worthy of discussion on many more things than politics.

The NICHE I alluded to in talkradio IS limiting. It's not as if there are a dozen decent talk signals in a market where everyone's talk needs are catered to. Conservative programming has monopolized the talk spectrum, not because no one wants to hear anything else, but instead that since this is the group that has been catered to for so long now, that is what has become entrenched. And not because of superior talent, but because of habit and public stereotyping. And NO, conservatives were not catered to because that's all who would listen---instead, it was due to an incremental evolution where an ENTERTAINER who happened to be conservative (Rush) caught fire.

People put the cart before the horse where the history of the modern flourishment of conservative talk is concerned.

People who are NOT conservative have little reason to listen to AM talkradio at this point. It has become a self fulfilling prophecy.

The reason talkradio is so conservative these days is not a simple "Oh, conservatives are just more interested in talk", or "conservative hosts are the most entertaining". These self-serving explanations are the lazy man's way of ignoring the somewhat comlicated evolution of the format.

 

[DaleGriffin]

The NICHE I alluded to in talkradio IS limiting. It's not as if there are a dozen decent talk signals in a market where everyone's talk needs are catered to.

There are plenty of signals out there and if there is a buck to be made someone will make it. When the format succeeds in revenue and ratings there will be more. Do what Sean Gilbow does, back your talk with money and support it.

 

[cm454]

The NICHE I alluded to in talkradio IS limiting. It's not as if there are a dozen decent talk signals in a market where everyone's talk needs are catered to.

There are plenty of signals out there and if there is a buck to be made someone will make it. When the format succeeds in revenue and ratings there will be more. Do what Sean Gilbow does, back your talk with money and support it.

Invest in THIS business? Now?

What are YOU smoking?

 

[board_manager]

Some posts have been relocated to Take It Outside

http://www.radio-info.com/smf/index.php/topic,88031.msg663502.html#msg663502

 

[pdwips]

Bravo, Mr. Boyce.

Still awaiting attribution From Mr. Marx. Something tells me it'll be a long wait.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Bravo, Mr. Boyce.

Still awaiting attribution From Mr. Marx. Something tells me it'll be a long wait.

Maybe Mr. Boyce doesn't know how to Google. He's played this game before. Somebody offers sources and then he says the sources aren't acceptable. He complains I am not a PD and when I quote a PD, he says this person hasn't been a PD recently enough. His game is not to debate but to discredit and deny. He either learned from his hosts or they learned from him.

He sounds like Dandy Don and Fearless Frank responding to Howard Cossell's comments (usually about the poor performance of the Cowboys or Giants) that Cossell "never played the game."

If Mr. Boyce wants to prove me wrong, it's easy. He can not replace a local morning show on any of the company's stations during the next year. Then I will be pleased to wish him a merry Christmas and admit I was wrong.

 

[DaleGriffin]

The NICHE I alluded to in talkradio IS limiting. It's not as if there are a dozen decent talk signals in a market where everyone's talk needs are catered to.

There are plenty of signals out there and if there is a buck to be made someone will make it. When the format succeeds in revenue and ratings there will be more. Do what Sean Gilbow does, back your talk with money and support it.

Invest in THIS business? Now?

What are YOU smoking?

I forgot... radio is dead! Don't invest, just bitch.

 

[amfmsw]

Sean Gilbow:

WWDB was jazz with music that people loved "96.5% of the time". They turned off the Stereo Pilot in 1974 and went mono with talk in Philly back then. One of the first Limbaugh affililiates too. Now "Ben FM" (Benjamin Franklin) style JACK.

 

[SeanMGilbow]

Sean Gilbow:

WWDB was jazz with music that people loved "96.5% of the time". They turned off the Stereo Pilot in 1974 and went mono with talk in Philly back then. One of the first Limbaugh affililiates too. Now "Ben FM" (Benjamin Franklin) style JACK.

Was it all talk back in 1974?

WNIR did not go all talk until the mid-80s. However, Howie Chizek has been on the air at 100.1 with a talk show since the 70s.

But you will have to forgive me for lack of details on the former WKNT-FM. I was 10 years old in 1974.

So, WNIR may not be the first, but it is the longest-running FM talker...exactly when they played the last song I cannot say specifically, but it was around 1985.

 

[jaymarvin]

Face it Jullus, while I don't agree with what Phil and WABC does a 100% he has you nailed. You have no facts to back up your claims on what you think or feel. Blogs can have good information, but they also have a lot of crap on them too, and have people who write about radio who do not understand it. And if Phil has done anything right it was his idea to put Bob Grant back on the air. Even though I lean left of center Grant is an all time living legend and a guy who knows how to do great radio. So Jullus if you are not going site your facts then do us a favor and stop making stupid, unfounded claims about ABC Radio and the people who work there. I have friends at WLS and not one has told me of an Imus cram down. By the way I asked you before and I'll ask you again what radio stations have you worked at? Those who can do post. Same old story.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Face it Jullus, while I don't agree with what Phil and WABC does a 100% he has you nailed. You have no facts to back up your claims on what you think or feel. Blogs can have good information, but they also have a lot of crap on them too, and have people who write about radio who do not understand it. And if Phil has done anything right it was his idea to put Bob Grant back on the air. Even though I lean left of center Grant is an all time living legend and a guy who knows how to do great radio. So Jullus if you are not going site your facts then do us a favor and stop making stupid, unfounded claims about ABC Radio and the people who work there. I have friends at WLS and not one has told me of an Imus cram down. By the way I asked you before and I'll ask you again what radio stations have you worked at? Those who can do post. Same old story.

Maybe you and Phil should get pseudonyms so you can be candid when you post. You guys are stuck with the industry line.

No lectures, please. Making things up, unfounded assertions and outright fabrications are staples of talk radio.

I've seen radio people play this game before. You don't like what somebody says. You can not or will not refute it or provide logical arguments against it. So you start ad hominum attacks, challenging credentials, demanding sources (when they are provided you discredit them, in turn), trying to "out" the person you disagree with. Anything except dealing with the issues that have been raised.

I will agree that columnists and bloggers are not infallible. I follow some; dismiss others. What is significant is that people at these stations are expressing concerns about Imus replacing their own morning shows. Phil says he wouldn't do it. PDs often say things like that when they are getting ready to do something. You know it; I know it. But the fact is Phil has already replaced a well-performing local morning show with Imus. If he does it with Curtis and Kuby, why not Paul W. Smith (or any other morning shows on Citadel stations)? Tell me honestly that if you were one of them, you wouldn't be worried.

If you admire anyone as vile as Bob Grant and Joe Pyne, I have really misjudged you. I'm glad to say I haven't heard their influence when I've listened to you.

PS: My early Christmas present just for you, Jay. Since you are interested I'll give you the two stations at which I worked in the Queen City of the Plains. KBTR. KWGN.

 

[cm454]

But the fact is Phil has already replaced a well-performing local morning show with Imus. If he does it with Curtis and Kuby, why not Paul W. Smith (or any other morning shows on Citadel stations)? Tell me honestly that if you were one of them, you wouldn't be worried.

Uh-oh.

He does have a point.

 

[jimwalsh2001]

What muddies the argument for me is that so many hosts, both local and syndicated, are just plain terrible.

 

[jaymarvin]

Jullis, why is your only comeback that I'm taking some kind of industry line and that I'm not being candid? Anyone who knows me knows I always say what I think popular or unpopular. And what industry line are you talking about? What game do you think I'm playing? So you know all about radio because you worked at what two stations? Bob Grant is far from vile and Joe Pyne wasn't vile by any means. They were both fun as hell to listen too. Did you grow up in LA? I did and use to listen to Pyne on KLAC. But I also liked Les Crane too. I'm not taking any industry line. The whole thing is about money. Nothing more than money. Will a liberal host work on a big stick talk station? Yes. But you have yet to prove your Imus cram down story. I'll repeat it again. I know people who work at WLS. I worked there twice. No one there has heard anything about an Imus cram down. Don and Roma (two great people by the way) are still there doing mornings. So tell me where you got the cram down info? I'm not trying to out you at all. You just seem to know so much, and I wonder how you know all of this? I see you as just another guy who posts on a radio board and spouts off all this BS with nothing to back it up.

 

[kaufcom]

You just seem to know so much, and I wonder how you know all of this?

Jay. I suspect he got from baloney

http://radioequalizer.blogspot.com/2007/11/imus-return-could-wipe-out-local.html#comments

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

I'm not taking any industry line. The whole thing is about money. Nothing more than money.

That is the industry line.

And since you are so quick to demand proof, maybe you would provide some evidence for this assertion. I certainly don't see much evidence for this claim in stock performance and earnings reports.

Baroosk: I saw Maloney's article. Then I checked Suleman's political contributions. I don't much like Maloney (the Bob Grant of bloggers) but once in a while he does get on to something and apparently you unwilling to acknowledge that.

Jay sez:

Blogs can have good information, but they also have a lot of crap on them too, and have people who write about radio who do not understand it.

Baroosk, I always thought your blogs was one of those with good information and it was one of the places I checked in putting together my original post.

Jay adds:

So tell me where you got the cram down info?

"Cram down?" If you mean the practice of using Hannity as leverage to get stations to clear Levin, that's been discussed at length in two other threads. If you mean industry buzz that more Citadel local morning shows will be replaced with Imus, I've already talked about that in this thread. People who might be affected by this are worried and columnists and bloggers are reporting that. Maybe your friends at WLS aren't worried but others are. I would say such fears are grounded. As I already mentioned, Phil has replaced a local show with Imus in New York. Hannity replaced local afternoon shows on various stations. Citadel has made no secret of their intent to syndicate Imus widely. Imus' big bucks deal requires widespread syndication (and commensurate ad sales) to be profitable. What makes this so far-fetched? What would seem really far-fetched is if Phil did not replace any local morning shows with Imus. Your only evidence seems to be Phil's denials. Somebody who has been around as long as you should know someone in Phil's position is not likely to announce a programming change before he's ready to make it. (The following is specualation: Maybe he will announce he's dumping morning shows right before Christmas. That would be true to form for radio.)

 

[jaymarvin]

Yes, radio is having a tough time right now in stock and earnings, but there are also other companies having a hard time too. What proof do I have for what I say about it being about money? How about being in radio since I've been 13 and I'm now 55. I've yet to see any radio station or company make a move based on politics. It's always been about numbers and money. In this day and age when the few own the many (something I'm against) there is a lot less gamble going on. In the days before 96 I saw people get blown out all the time because there was a feeling another person or team could get better numbers or were easy to sell. I have Julius and I repeat never seen someone get fired because they were too liberal or conservative. Other than FOX it's not about right or left it's about green and the amount of it. Why are there so many conservative hosts on the air? The same reason there are so many cars on the road with four tires because it works. And people have a tendency to look at how one thing works and then duplicate it. So if Rush works then everyone goes out to find the next Rush. So far progressive radio has yet to find its own equal to Rush. And the way Air America is going they won't find one either. They are pure agenda radio and that doesn't work. I feel, and have seen it, talk stations with mixed views have great numbers. It's a shame no one will gamble on that anymore. Phil Boyce did do it at WABC. I wish he and the rest of ABC and the other companies would give it a shot. I think syndication is bad for radio on a number of levels. But you "industry line" crap is just so wrong. I have the years to back up what I'm saying. And what you're doing is really calling me a liar. You remind me of my far left callers who think someone at Clear Channel tells me what I can and can not say. I'm here to tell you that's BS and you Julius are wrong.

 

[Phil Boyce]

Julius says:

Maybe Mr. Boyce doesn't know how to Google. He's played this game before. Somebody offers sources and then he says the sources aren't acceptable.

Here is the problem Julius. You did not offer sources. Not a single one. But instead you suggest here that I should google the issue, and GUESS at what sources you WERE using. The problem here is that you do not have any sources. You were talking out of your behind again, which explains why your lips weren't moving.

You mentioned Paul W. Smith the legendary morning guy at WJR is nervous about Imus replacing him. Funny Paul has never once called ME to wonder about that. Paul is a personal friend of mine, who I hired at WJR in 1994 when I was the PD there. Perhaps he did not call me because he knew how STUPID that would sound to even ask about it.

Look Julius I will give you credit. You have managed to get this thread to four pages, by simply throwing out wild unconnected rumors and trying to make it look like you have it all sourced out. You said that I would probably never admit what I was going to do before I did it. Maybe. But on the same token I would never come on a message board and vehemently deny it if I really intended to do it. I would just let it lie.

If your sources were "published" as you claim, why not just list them here? If they were internet blogs, Google them and list them here? You won't do that....and it is pointless to continue this conversation with somebody who: A) knows less than nothing about what they are talking about and B) refuses to list one single source, credible or not and C) continues to post this jibberish after he has been annihiliated with facts to the contrary.

pb

 

[DaleGriffin]

It's a freaking Christmas miracle...

programmers, talent, left, right and center all coming together to scuttle Julius' misinformation, distortions and wild baseless accusations...

God bless us every one!