Mother of mercy, is this the end of local talk radio (as we know it)?

[Phil Boyce]

Thanks Dale. I could not have said it better myself.

Julius says:

I saw Maloney's article. Then I checked Suleman's political contributions. I don't much like Maloney (the Bob Grant of bloggers) but once in a while he does get on to something and apparently you unwilling to acknowledge that.

He makes stuff up. I looked at the link. All he did was list the morning shows on all of the former ABC newstalk stations, and imply we were going to replace all of them with Imus. He posted that crap on November 1st. Did it happen? Of course not.

This is the same blogger who claimed (about a year before the Citadel takeover) that management would change at all the ABC talkers, all the syndicated shows on WABC would be replaced with local, and Citadel had no interest in keeping Sean Hannity. Hey, earth to blogger boy...I am still here. So is Sean Hannity...and WABC now has one MORE syndicated show...not fewer.

If you want to start believing all the blogs out there, I have some beachfront property in Florida I wanna sell you that has never seen a hurricane. Julius, I do have a special Christmas announcement: YOUR POST WAS BS.

pb

 

[cm454]

It's a freaking Christmas miracle...

programmers, talent, left, right and center all coming together to scuttle Julius' misinformation, distortions and wild baseless accusations...

God bless us every one!

I heard that every time Julius spreads a lie, an angel get's it's wings.

 

[Slant]

all very interesting. And not that I am defending Julius mind you, BUT, if Citadel is paying the Iman and the staff a total of 6 million a year (That may be low), how many stations have to clear the show in order to make a profit? Lets say WABC bills 20 million a year...(I think that number may be a bit high...but not sure...PB?), and the majority of revenue will come from WABC supplying the majority of the audience, I would imagine that Citadel would almost be a position that they would have to clear the IMAN on almost all of their stations in order to make the show appealing to national ad buyers and thus not put WABC in the pressure cooker to drive rev. Right? Or is my logic off on this?

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Phil, it's amazing to me how many ways you come up with not to deal with the issues I've raised. You want sources from me and others, meanwhile we are supposed to take your word for everything. The fact that you claim not to care about what I say but spend so much time on here attacking me (me, not refuting what I say) tells me I am on to something.

Everything that has been posted here will remain. Nothing on the Internet ever really goes away. We shall see what happens and we shall see who is a liar.

 

[ABQTom]

Julius wrote:

"Maybe you and Phil should get pseudonyms so you can be candid when you post. You guys are stuck with the industry line."

Tom writes:

Strongly disagree. People should use their REAL NAMES on forums, and back up everything they say with credible, industry web sites.

Reminds me of when posters on the Albuquerque board lied about Clear Channel Liberal Talk ratings (on KABQ-AM 1350) in Albuquerque. I had the real numbers (which were very impressive), posted a link to a Clear Channel web site, and they stopped posting. Then I got a note of thanks in my email from Thom Hartmann. Hartmann, Schultz, and Rhodes drive ratings on 1350.

Clearly, the posters had a partisan motivation.

 

[ABQTom]

And the way Air America is going they won't find one either. They are pure agenda radio and that doesn't work. I feel, and have seen it, talk stations with mixed views have great numbers. It's a shame no one will gamble on that anymore. Phil Boyce did do it at WABC. I wish he and the rest of ABC and the other companies would give it a shot. I think syndication is bad for radio on a number of levels.

Jay:

I'm new to this trying to get a listing of stations with mixed views from local and national shows.....sadly they are dissapearing....so far I have these...Could you list others, either currently on the air, or, historically?

KGO in San Francisco

KIRO in Seattle

the old "KING news/talk 1090" in Seattle (owners: the Bullitt sisters)

KFI in Los Angeles

the new 540/1260 KGIL in L.A./San Diego

BiCoastal stations i.e. KGOE/Eureka, KBBR/Coos Bay.

Did Randi Rhodes did begin on a conservative station in Miami, WJNO, didn't she? I'm not sure.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

I heard that every time Julius spreads a lie, an angel get's it's wings.

Every time Phil tells a lie, somebody loses his job.

 

[jaymarvin]

You should list WLS, Chicago, and also WFLA, Tampa, and Rhodes went into talk at WIOD and then went to WJNO. You can also list WIOD, WABC at one time, KABC at one time. If I think about it I can come up with more. Most of these are in the past. Julius that is a flat out lie abot Phil Boyce. He put Gran back on the air. That's adding a live day part. You have no facts, you never do, and those who you disagree with you label them as liars. Enough is enough. You know nothing about radio. You don't even know what the term "cram down" means. Do you know what TSL is? How about cume? If you do then you can read a book. So go look at those anbd get some facts. Talk radio needs to go back more to local talk IMO, but it won't get there with people like you spouting off.

 

[DaleGriffin]

I heard that every time Julius spreads a lie, an angel get's it's wings.

Every time Phil tells a lie, somebody loses his job.

I know this is hard for you and I really don't know why I am even bothering but... hasn't this already been proven to be false? Performing talkers need not worry about a "cram down" until Citadel fires someone who is kicking ass in rating and revenue, then that is not a lie.

Julius Leonard Marx - You have been asked for sources you try to deflect. What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Performing talkers need not worry about a "cram down" until Citadel fires someone who is kicking ass in rating and revenue, then that is not a lie.

OK, how about Curtis and Kuby? Not only "kicking ass" but kicking the ass that replaced them.

 

[DaleGriffin]

Local vs. local... one host gone one brought in. Net loss - 0

Next!

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Local vs. local... one host gone one brought in. Net loss - 0

Next!

Tell the truth. Imus is not a local show. Net loss = 1.

 

[DaleGriffin]

Local vs. local... one host gone one brought in. Net loss - 0

Next!

Tell the truth. Imus is not a local show. Net loss = 1.

Ah, a lesson in truth from JLM! Thanks. Truth be told Imus is local to NY. You know this I know this. I don't get his schtick or how he became a rejuvenated icon, but the guy is NY. Quit splitting hairs.

 

[jaymarvin]

Sorry for all the typos in the last post I was in a hurry. So after all you've posted here all you can come up with is one example? That's pretty bad Julius. Can't you do better than that? Guess not. How about some more facts about your charges of "taking the industry line"? I'll give you some examples of hosts I know who were fired, and it had nothing to do with their politics. I worked with one well known host who was fired because he would not do what the PD asked him to do. Stop yelling at the callers, and stop smoking in the studio. It was a company rule you could not smoke in the studio. So he got popped. I've blown up plenty of gigs not because of my political views, but for other reasons that led to me being let go. I've since learned my lesson and now by and large I cause very little trouble. Now there are a lot of talent on the streets. Why? Money. Why pay someone $500,000 a year to give song titles when you can voice track it for far less. Same thing with talk show hosts. Do I think this makes for great radio? No. But it's a fact it all comes down to money, and those folks who program who think all the hosts have to conservative just like you wouldn't play Cream on a country station. I also think that's wrong when it comes to talk. But once again in the end it's about money.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

Sorry for all the typos in the last post I was in a hurry. So after all you've posted here all you can come up with is one example? That's pretty bad Julius. Can't you do better than that? Guess not. How about some more facts about your charges of "taking the industry line"? I'll give you some examples of hosts I know who were fired, and it had nothing to do with their politics. I worked with one well known host who was fired because he would not do what the PD asked him to do. Stop yelling at the callers, and stop smoking in the studio. It was a company rule you could not smoke in the studio. So he got popped. I've blown up plenty of gigs not because of my political views, but for other reasons that led to me being let go. I've since learned my lesson and now by and large I cause very little trouble. Now there are a lot of talent on the streets. Why? Money. Why pay someone $500,000 a year to give song titles when you can voice track it for far less. Same thing with talk show hosts. Do I think this makes for great radio? No. But it's a fact it all comes down to money, and those folks who program who think all the hosts have to conservative just like you wouldn't play Cream on a country station. I also think that's wrong when it comes to talk. But once again in the end it's about money.

Industry line and now Bob Grant tactics.

I've said what I've said. Agree or disagree. Apparently you just want to attack and argue. I have no interest in playing your talk show host games.
I've got to go. I'm listening to Michael Jackson. Maybe you should listen, too. You might learn something.

 

[Steven21]

And the way Air America is going they won't find one either. They are pure agenda radio and that doesn't work. I feel, and have seen it, talk stations with mixed views have great numbers. It's a shame no one will gamble on that anymore. Phil Boyce did do it at WABC. I wish he and the rest of ABC and the other companies would give it a shot. I think syndication is bad for radio on a number of levels.

Jay:

I'm new to this trying to get a listing of stations with mixed views from local and national shows.....sadly they are dissapearing....so far I have these...Could you list others, either currently on the air, or, historically?

KGO in San Francisco

KIRO in Seattle

the old "KING news/talk 1090" in Seattle (owners: the Bullitt sisters)

KFI in Los Angeles

the new 540/1260 KGIL in L.A./San Diego

BiCoastal stations i.e. KGOE/Eureka, KBBR/Coos Bay.

Did Randi Rhodes did begin on a conservative station in Miami, WJNO, didn't she? I'm not sure.

You can include WBEN/Buffalo. They have live/local programming from 5AM to 10P. Rush is 12-3P, but the rest is local. Host views vary. middays is more conservative, afternoons less so and evenings is a much more edgy mix of conservative/liberal, host not definable by party.

They are consistantly number one with double digit shares.

 

[jaymarvin]

No, Julius I don't want to argue with you. I think you're parting shot about Bob Grant and the old industry line says it all. I'm not the person who needs to learn. I've had 33 years of learning. Can you say the same? No you can't. Nor can you prove anything you've posted here, and everyone on this board knows it. I rest my case.

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

No, Julius I don't want to argue with you. I think you're parting shot about Bob Grant and the old industry line says it all. I'm not the person who needs to learn. I've had 33 years of learning. Can you say the same? No you can't. Nor can you prove anything you've posted here, and everyone on this board knows it. I rest my case.

Dear Jay,

This whole discussion has gotten a bit over the edge. I respect your opinions but I find Bob Grant and Joe Pyne and the approach to talk radio they represent distasteful (regardless of how "successful" either was). I got caught up in some of the attack comments posted in this discussion and I responded in kind; for that I apologize.

You say I haven't proved anything. For a lawyer to prove something, he has to convince a supposedly impartial judge (or jury). In this situation, it's more like having to convince the opposing counsel. I don't want to rehash everything that has already been said here but it would help if you would state more specifically you want me to "prove." Some idea of your "conditions of satisfaction" (acceptable evidence for a given assertion) would also be helpful. My purpose would be to help you (or anyone else) understand how I arrived at a particular conclusion; not to get into a whole other argument about whether a given source is "valid" or "acceptable."

Most of what gets posted here are observations, statements of preference and opinion, and these are not possible to approve or disprove. I come here to exchange observations, preferences and opinions and not to write a masters' thesis. I should also note that if you (and others) are going to demand "sources" from me, you should be willing to provide them yourself. I'd much prefer to talk about the questions and issues raised and not the person who has raised them.

I can't help feeling from some people's reactions that I've walked into the Church of Radio and questioned accepted dogma and not deferred to the priests and bishops. Some apparently feel it's wrong not to accept what someone highly placed in the industry has to say. But given the current state of the industry and the current direction of the industry maybe dogma and leaders' assumptions need to be questioned. As you wrote eloquently several days ago, radio is not what it was. And the explanations I hear don't seem to fit.

 

[mobile-exradiodj]

I have Julius and I repeat never seen someone get fired because they were too liberal or conservative.

You really should talk to Wendy Wilde and hear her story about what happened to her at WCCO-AM M/SP. I'm not sure where she is now after losing the election for Congress, probably still in Minnesota somehwhere. She has a good story. http://www.wendywilde.com/

 

[Julius Leonard Marx]

I have Julius and I repeat never seen someone get fired because they were too liberal or conservative.

You really should talk to Wendy Wilde and hear her story about what happened to her at WCCO-AM M/SP. I'm not sure where she is now after losing the election for Congress, probably still in Minnesota somehwhere. She has a good story. http://www.wendywilde.com/

Good point...

When stations are cleared of liberals, you gotta wonder. Especially in the case of successful shows pairing liberal and "conservative" hosts. Like WABC. Like WDEL. Even like (are you listening, Jay?) WLS (I can't even type the letters without the jingle going through my head ... W-L-S ... in Chicago).

Jay and Phil keep telling us it's just about money. But these "money" programming changes consistently result in wall to wall, round-the-clock one-note schedules of "conservative" hosts. You gotta wonder.

They say they can't make money with liberal talk but the people who are supposedly best at programming talk radio haven't tried. They say talk radio isn't done well but the people who supposedly do talk radio best aren't willing to do liberal talk. You gotta wonder.