Movin' is on the move in SFO

[raydioheadfm]

That is where KFRC is falling short so far (still very early as they evolve), they brag about the music and heritage...well then share that music knowledge, those nuggets and trivia. That will warm you up to the listener. And relate your everyday experiences with the listener...I hear little of that as well. They are doing the basic fine, but this is a seasoned air staff, they do not need the training wheels.

This is where most people are missing the point. The target listeners already know this music and the artists, etc. The music on it's own provides each listener their own memories. The jocks now are trying to be contemporary to today--that's not to say something occasional about artists or songs isn't ok, but as flavor, not a staple. KFRC in the day was not a station that lived in the past. It was a top 40 station, that was arguably even the "teen station". The point is that they were relating to "today" in that period and that's what the new KFRC jox are doing. Yet at the same time, they are give props to the heritage and doing some things that evoke the past, like the John Mack Flanagan shows, Motown Monday, etc.

This whole notion that letting jox talk into stopsets makes them personalities is crazy. I just heard a KRTH jock talk for 30 seconds and really say nothing going into a break, just a liner and in fact, 2 liners! Research is already showing listeners know that even more than a few seconds with no music is a signal, subliminal or not, that commercials are coming.

I listened to Sue Hall do 7 breaks in an hour the other day. I'd hardly say she's not having fun, relating her daily experiences, airing listeners, etc. This station is a work in progress for sure, and they are trying to balance the heritage of the past with being a relevant station today. Jay is also having fun (to my ear) and talking about relevant stuff. The Duke and Celeste have great chemistry and it's getting better each day. BTW, to my ear, Bobby Ocean's show sounds about as voice tracked as John Tesh...it's a flat as can be.

You can compare KFRC to WCBS to KRTH all you want but each station is different and both CBS and KRTH are clearly more rooted in "oldies" (regardless of what either says on air). KFRC had struggled so much at the end of Brian Thomas and through the variations programmed by Tim Marranville and Bob Harlow that the shift to classic hits was seen as the way to regain traction. And last summer's book showed exactly that. So KFRC has taken that tact again and and is doing something different from it's oldies incarnation.

Anyone who is seeing the ratings already knows that the cume has grown over 100,000 in just 2 months. Time will tell.

 

[ContactLenz]

I agree it is not about living in the past, but sharing good music tidbits/info is timeless. And I neve equated lots of talk as "personality" or connecting...not saying that you said that either

And to bend your thought another way...if they (KFRC) are not living in the past, then why hire Duke, Perry, JMF? Jocks from that era?

You cannot have it both ways, though you can be contemporary with today while sharing some good memories as well.

If the music is "timeless" (which I think it is) then it shouldn't matter.

Time will tell, but in this business you cannot get a 2nd chance to make that first impression, and to me, it seems KFRC got out the gate a bit slow and hesistant.

But what the hell do I know?

 

[OldiesCat]

More on content...Dave Sholin has so much music history and knowledge, yet doesn't share that, why? To me that is what I would like to hear, good word economic stories about the artist, song, era, whatever. And yes relate it to today or the listener.

That is where KFRC is falling short so far (still very early as they evolve), they brag about the music and heritage...well then share that music knowledge, those nuggets and trivia. That will warm you up to the listener. And relate your everyday experiences with the listener...I hear little of that as well. They are doing the basic fine, but this is a seasoned air staff, they do not need the training wheels.

I agree about hiring 70 yr old jocks from that era (which is why I'm glad CBS-FM didn't bring back Harry Harrison and the other legends, God Bless them). As far as sharing stories and tidbits...to be honest, Sholin doesn't blabber on about them because his audience has likely heard them a thousand times in the past 20 years by jocks who had nothing else to say but "on this date in r&r history" and "rembemember this & that" and "they had 3 top 5 hits in the 60s". Radio GUYS love that stuff- radio LISTENERS (for the most part) could care less. What they care about is either "hey, that's one of my favorite songs" or "what the heck is THAT?" or "why doesn't this guy shut up about himself". There's overwhelming research out there saying radio listeners are over the hype, over the jocks talking about themselves and over all the trivit/tidbits/historical info. "Shut up and play the hits" is being said loud and clear by RADIO LISTENERS- it's the radio people (PDs & jocks) who often aren't hearing them.

 

[LKellerIII]

"There's overwhelming research out there saying radio listeners are over the hype, over the jocks talking about themselves and over all the trivia/tidbits/historical info. "Shut up and play the hits" is being said loud and clear by RADIO LISTENERS- it's the radio people (PDs & jocks) who often aren't hearing them."

OK - then (repeating myself), the stations should stop pretending, just go jock-less outside of morning drive, put in a decent number and variety of voice-over bridges (not just the same dozen over and over), and stop all the hype about how great it is to have Jay Coffey back in the Bay Area, and Sue Hall back on KFRC.

As we all know, I'm no radio professional, and I'm certainly not the average radio listener, or I wouldn't be writing my rantings on this website...but I remember that "overwhelming research" just a few years ago "proved" that people really wanted to hear the same 300 Oldies over and over and over again all the time. Maybe that seemed to be true because those songs "tested better," but millions of listeners burned out on the mind-numbing repetition and it turned out not to be true in the long run. They were so worried about doing something that caused listeners to tune-out that they forgot to give listeners a reason to tune-in.

Lately play lists on stations like KFRC, K-Earth, etc. have been expanding. And YES, I know the 2 stations have considerably different formats. But K-Earth's ratings have improved, and I don't think it's a coincidence that they've now got a bigger play list, and hire mostly clever jocks who can open the mic every 2nd or 3rd song and entertain briefly for a few seconds of air-time. Does that mean radio listeners have changed, or does it mean that the research was short-sighted, or made faulty assumptions?

 

[DavidSC]

[/quote]The jocks now are trying to be contemporary to today--that's not to say something occasional about artists or songs isn't ok, but as flavor, not a staple. KFRC in the day was not a station that lived in the past. It was a top 40 station, that was arguably even the "teen station". The point is that they were relating to "today" in that period and that's what the new KFRC jox are doing. Yet at the same time, they are give props to the heritage and doing some things that evoke the past, like the John Mack Flanagan shows, Motown Monday, etc.

I listened to Sue Hall do 7 breaks in an hour the other day. I'd hardly say she's not having fun, relating her daily experiences, airing listeners, etc. This station is a work in progress for sure, and they are trying to balance the heritage of the past with being a relevant station today. Jay is also having fun (to my ear) and talking about relevant stuff. The Duke and Celeste have great chemistry and it's getting better each day. BTW, to my ear, Bobby Ocean's show sounds about as voice tracked as John Tesh...it's a flat as can be.
[/quote]

Well said! Being an air personality doesn't have to mean stopping everything for 5 or ten minutes for a formal newscast or sportscast anymore than having a contest means you break format and do a 1/2 hour game show. Being topical on a music station can mean the air personality mentions local events, scores, news items, psa's, birthdays, or whatever in short bits say during a seque or at the beginning of a stop set. Its called relating to the audience while keeping the music going.

This somthing good top 40 stations and djs excel(or excelled) at--short, sweet, to the point, topical and local. KFRC was always a good example of this.

 

[radio dx]

Enough!! research, surveys and consultants don't always show the clear picture. I always said that the Bear, young country, free fm and good ol' Jack would not last. It dosen't take all of the before mentioned to tell you something is not going to work. You should use those items as a guide but don't read too much into it. Again you might say that I live in the past but take a look at the air folks now at KFRC, (from the past) and the jingles they are now using are from at least twenty years ago. So I say yes some of these things from the past might work because KFRC is doing it but do it right for the best results and the target demo and the advertising dollars will come...bottom line.

 

[OldiesCat]

Enough!! research, surveys and consultants don't always show the clear picture.

Sharp radio people use well-done, thorough research to help them make the best decisions.

 

[radio dx]

You gotta be a consultant for CBS.

 

[DavidSC]

Enough!! research, surveys and consultants don't always show the clear picture.

Sharp radio people use well-done, thorough research to help them make the best decisions.

Sharp radio people also have gut feeling and know when to follow it.

 

[OldiesCat]

Sharp radio people are masters at combining good information with that "gut" on how to implement it. Pure "gut feeling" is overrated, based on a Programmer's view of the market (not a listener view) and usually a recipe for mediocrity.

 

[DavidSC]

Sharp radio people are masters at combining good information with that "gut" on how to implement it. Pure "gut feeling" is overrated, based on a Programmer's view of the market (not a listener view) and usually a recipe for mediocrity.

This is true...sharp radio people (PDs, Air Personalities, Managers, etc) are masters at combining good information with gut feeling. That information, both formal and informal, feed the gut feeling. Thats why someone in Dallas, New York, or some other place can't effectively program a station in San Francisco or LA or Podunk. They can only make decisions based on cold numbers or even on uninformed gut feeling (corporate culture). The sharp radio people are the ones who can take the good research, make some decisions and the see "how it plays"on the streets, in the houses, the offices, cars, and shops. Its called relating to the people..audience and potential audience.

PS: I'm not talking about the small group that call the station or go to remotes, but the everyday people...the community where you live. Unless of course the decision maker lives somewher else.

 

[davideduardo]

This is true...sharp radio people (PDs, Air Personalities, Managers, etc) are masters at combining good information with gut feeling. That information, both formal and informal, feed the gut feeling.

Gut feelings are not quantifiable, meaning that you may feel there is a need for a certain format, but you put it on and it turns out there are about as many listeners as there would be for all-reggae in Duluth.

Thats why someone in Dallas, New York, or some other place can't effectively program a station in San Francisco or LA or Podunk.

Ah, I have heard that one so many times. Endulge me in an ego-satisfying tour through a thorough debunking of your erroneous theory:

1. In Ecuador for 9 months, I put on the South American continent's first Top 40 station in a field of 42 block programmed AMs. It was #1 immediately.
2. In Ecuador for 2 years, I put on the first FM for over 1000 miles in any direction. It became #2 in upper income levels within a year or two, and was profitable in its second year (I sold no ads on purpose for the first year)
3. I reformatted a station in my first month in Puerto Rico in 1970. 6 months later, it was tied with the station that had been #1 for the previous 50 years.
4. I created a format and recruited two unemployed guys for a morning show in the Dominican Republic in 1985 on my first visit; the staiton and show went to #1, and the morning show is still, 22 years later, on with the same people and still #1.
5. In April of 2000, I put on the first 100% Spanish rock station in Argentina playing only local artists. #1 with a 20 share in 30 days. Still #1.

I have a whole bunch more of these stories, but these should show you that if one person can have successes in a half dozen countries, there are plenty more in the programming ranks who can do the same.

Going from Scranton to Dallas is childs play by comparison.

They can only make decisions based on cold numbers or even on uninformed gut feeling (corporate culture).

Wrong. They can interview listeners and find out things about the local lifestyle that may be different. Market to market, anywhere in the world, a person can do this quite successfully.

On a project for a new FM in Karachi, I said "I don't know the culture, the religion or the langauge." The station owner said, "we already know that ... you know radio!"

The sharp radio people are the ones who can take the good research, make some decisions and the see "how it plays"on the streets, in the houses, the offices, cars, and shops. Its called relating to the people..audience and potential audience.

Sometimes someone from outside a market "sees things" that locals take for granted. Otherwise, how do you explain that nobody in Argentina, where there was nearly 40 years of local rock heritage, ever did an Argentine rock format? I saw it on the evening of my first visit after talking to some folks on the street.

I have made more #1 stations by not believing "it won't work here" than by any other strategy.

 

[radio dx]

I have to say things where starting to get a little boring here, we sure got some good conversation going...now let's change the channel.

 

[ContactLenz]

This is why I love consultants, and not to rail on them (my mentor and good friend is a very good/successful one, but he'd be the first to tell you he has had many faliures along the way, he has always maintained he doesn't have all the answers), but you can put 5 consultants in a room and get 5 different answers, all of them right, all of them wrong at the same time...it is an educated opinion often based on low numbers (100 people) of perceptual research, low return rates on diaries...none of the radio research is an exact science.

A consultant working for my western Top 25 Classic Hit station (before the rage) in the mid 90's had us all giving lots of music info/factoids, and we ended up beating the heritage Classic Rock station within 2 books in a large part because of that and them giving up that hill, and their more and more lacking of local/community relevance. So I disagree that only "radio folk" love that info. Just when you think everyone has heard this or knows that, then you miss an opportunity to make a connection.

So to reiterate what I said a few posts back, why hire these heritage folk at KFRC, yet not encourage them to SHARE that heritage and knowledge while building a new relationship with new/fresh listeners relevant to todays times?

This isn't "Rocket Surgery" (as my Rocket science friend always quips with good humor).

Radio is common sense, a step above instinct and more real then most of the research that is floating around.

One final note...the research is only as good as the programmer who is interpreting it...

Good research in bad hands still leads to bad radio. But bad research in good hands, you still have chance for your station to be successful...because your common sense will tell you the information is crap.

2nd...your assumption that everyone who likely listens to KFRC already knows all the "Dukes" stories...what about the younger end of the demo or the "new" listener who now finds this "older music" kind of hip. You should ALWAYS assume you have a new person/listener at your party, and let them in on what you are doing...that IS Radio 101.

 

[Rick Mundy Show]

This is why I love consultants, and not to rail on them (my mentor and good friend is a very good/successful one, but he'd be the first to tell you he has had many faliures along the way, he has always maintained he doesn't have all the answers), but you can put 5 consultants in a room and get 5 different answers, all of them right, all of them wrong at the same time...it is an educated opinion often based on low numbers (100 people) of perceptual research, low return rates on diaries...none of the radio research is an exact science.

A consultant working for my western Top 25 Classic Hit station (before the rage) in the mid 90's had us all giving lots of music info/factoids, and we ended up beating the heritage Classic Rock station within 2 books in a large part because of that and them giving up that hill, and their more and more lacking of local/community relevance. So I disagree that only "radio folk" love that info. Just when you think everyone has heard this or knows that, then you miss an opportunity to make a connection.

So to reiterate what I said a few posts back, why hire these heritage folk at KFRC, yet not encourage them to SHARE that heritage and knowledge while building a new relationship with new/fresh listeners relevant to todays times?

This isn't "Rocket Surgery" (as my Rocket science friend always quips with good humor).

Radio is common sense, a step above instinct and more real then most of the research that is floating around.

One final note...the research is only as good as the programmer who is interpreting it...

Good research in bad hands still leads to bad radio. But bad research in good hands, you still have chance for your station to be successful...because your common sense will tell you the information is crap.

2nd...your assumption that everyone who likely listens to KFRC already knows all the "Dukes" stories...what about the younger end of the demo or the "new" listener who now finds this "older music" kind of hip. You should ALWAYS assume you have a new person/listener at your party, and let them in on what you are doing...that IS Radio 101.

The Duke has not been on the air at KFRC for over 20 years. He has told no stories to the KFRC listener of today.

 

[DyingMedium]

Rick...

Learn how to use the Quote..and how to post your response outside of it. Makes it easier for us to figure out what you're saying.