SuperRadioFan said:
Good point.
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Good point.
A
apco25
Guest
I never found a correlation between music taste and record sales since I have been doing listener level testing. New music is realtively unimportant for most 25+ adult demos, and many stations include newer songs not because they want to but to be able to keep the sound fresh. New songs always test badly with adults, no matter who they are by.DavidEduardo said:
>>>>>>They test badly with adults 25 + because would you like to review a Snoop dog, Kayne West record. Hell no. There's alot of alternative crap out too, and most songs today just don't have the staying power as hits of the 60's -80's do.
If they can develope a single like they use to in radio, you find a different result as long as it's not programmed to just 14 year olds. Let's face it , to sum it up ....it didn't matter if you were 14 or 25, everyone loved the latest hits from the Beatles, Elvis, Supremes, Born to be Wild - Steppenwolf, Chick a boom- Daddy Dewdrop when they were currently out or released as new hit singles on the radio. Today ...it's Genre's divided.
[[/i] [/quote]
The Billboard charts were and are pretty accurate about what is on the air, because for many years, the chart includes airplay (BDS) as a basis for much of the chart. In the Top 40 days, charts were based on singles sales. After singles disappeared, radio had nothing to track, wo we asked listeners rather than asking record stores.
By the early 90's with BDS / Nielsen the chart reflected airplay, as opposed to reflecting mostly singles sales.
>>>>That's exactly what I was trying to explain to you....and this is where the infamous question " Did it test well" comes instead of natural development of the airwaves of letting the small-medium markets develope a hit like a ballplayer that works his way up from the single A to AAA ball to the majors. It's like were being dictated to what were gonna hear and listen to, because it tested well in a room for 5 minutes, or somebody gets a hit from a tabloid news or reality TV show series. And the rap scene, it scares adults from wanting to hear anything new. And they keep putting this crap out.
[/quote]
Re: Charts and music testing.
That is not the way it works anymore.
Singles, when added, whether small markets lead or not, are "new" when they are first heard in each market.
Songs are not tested when they are new. They are tested when they have had about 100 to 120 spins, and are, thus, minimally familiar to the average listener who should have, at that point, heard them 4 or so times. Then they are tested on callout, and if they do not stiff out, are tested on AMTs too.
When songs are tested, they are tested against the audience of the station that plays them. This is so much better than the old charts where you had no idea who liked a song. Or record sales, which similarly did not tell you demographics or favorite stations or formats.
A test consists of playing about 8" hooks or 300 up to over 1000 songss for groups of listeners, with a total of about 100 being the optimum in many cases. All are selected for being in core demos and having station usage that makes them familiar with either the station or the music being tested.
But when new songs are added, there is no testing. Generally, the first testing in major markets is after 4 to 5 weeks of play... which is the earliest that you can get a read on a song. There is no way to really effectively test music before it has been exposed on the air... and I am curious how you got the idea that this is the way it is done.
apco25 said:
That is not the way it works anymore.
Singles, when added, whether small markets lead or not, are "new" when they are first heard in each market.
Songs are not tested when they are new. They are tested when they have had about 100 to 120 spins, and are, thus, minimally familiar to the average listener who should have, at that point, heard them 4 or so times. Then they are tested on callout, and if they do not stiff out, are tested on AMTs too.
When songs are tested, they are tested against the audience of the station that plays them. This is so much better than the old charts where you had no idea who liked a song. Or record sales, which similarly did not tell you demographics or favorite stations or formats.
A test consists of playing about 8" hooks or 300 up to over 1000 songss for groups of listeners, with a total of about 100 being the optimum in many cases. All are selected for being in core demos and having station usage that makes them familiar with either the station or the music being tested.
But when new songs are added, there is no testing. Generally, the first testing in major markets is after 4 to 5 weeks of play... which is the earliest that you can get a read on a song. There is no way to really effectively test music before it has been exposed on the air... and I am curious how you got the idea that this is the way it is done.
A
apco25
Guest
Singles, when added, whether small markets lead or not, are "new" when they are first heard in each market.
>>>>>But with corps. like Clear channel....do they add a new song across the board to their CHR or AC station at the same time, or is their local or regional adds due to the discretion of the individual stations by the PD/MD.
Songs are not tested when they are new. They are tested when they have had about 100 to 120 spins, and are, thus, minimally familiar to the average listener who should have, at that point, heard them 4 or so times. Then they are tested on callout, and if they do not stiff out, are tested on AMTs too.
>>>>that's what' s kinda of funny when a song climbs up receives credibility on the charts when it gets more plays then other songs. Since part of it's for testing, otherwise it can be ranked for favoritism by a local station that adds more plays to songs they may personally like. I'm speculating here , but it's weird what determines a real hit. It's not like the old way since the demise of the 45 vinyl.
A test consists of playing about 8" hooks or 300 up to over 1000 songss for groups of listeners, with a total of about 100 being the optimum in many cases. All are selected for being in core demos and having station usage that makes them familiar with either the station or the music being tested.
>>>>Is that for selecting a format's playlist ( oldies, Quiet storms,non - current AC), or is that deterrmining what gets selected as far new plays for current CHR or Hot AC play.
But when new songs are added, there is no testing. Generally, the first testing in major markets is after 4 to 5 weeks of play... which is the earliest that you can get a read on a song. There is no way to really effectively test music before it has been exposed on the air... and I am curious how you got the idea that this is the way it is done.
>>>>>I heard or read all sorts of stories as far as Clear Channels pay for play or play for pay, concert ticket advantages or control for , legal record label payolas, which all comes around to scratching your head on how did many of these songs make the airwaves in the first place.
When songs are tested, they are tested against the audience of the station that plays them. This is so much better than the old charts where you had no idea who liked a song. Or record sales, which similarly did not tell you demographics or favorite stations or formats.
>>>>>>>>That's what brought the fun of top 40 radio, whether if it was Barry Manilow, Boston, Heatwave, Donny Osmond, Marvin Gaye, Aerosmith, etc. You didn't know who exactly liked or bought the song on an individual, racial, sexual , ethnic basis, but if it sold more then the others, it was played and it was a hit with every other various style of pop music. You had the best of everything all in one.
>>>>>But with corps. like Clear channel....do they add a new song across the board to their CHR or AC station at the same time, or is their local or regional adds due to the discretion of the individual stations by the PD/MD.
Songs are not tested when they are new. They are tested when they have had about 100 to 120 spins, and are, thus, minimally familiar to the average listener who should have, at that point, heard them 4 or so times. Then they are tested on callout, and if they do not stiff out, are tested on AMTs too.
>>>>that's what' s kinda of funny when a song climbs up receives credibility on the charts when it gets more plays then other songs. Since part of it's for testing, otherwise it can be ranked for favoritism by a local station that adds more plays to songs they may personally like. I'm speculating here , but it's weird what determines a real hit. It's not like the old way since the demise of the 45 vinyl.
A test consists of playing about 8" hooks or 300 up to over 1000 songss for groups of listeners, with a total of about 100 being the optimum in many cases. All are selected for being in core demos and having station usage that makes them familiar with either the station or the music being tested.
>>>>Is that for selecting a format's playlist ( oldies, Quiet storms,non - current AC), or is that deterrmining what gets selected as far new plays for current CHR or Hot AC play.
But when new songs are added, there is no testing. Generally, the first testing in major markets is after 4 to 5 weeks of play... which is the earliest that you can get a read on a song. There is no way to really effectively test music before it has been exposed on the air... and I am curious how you got the idea that this is the way it is done.
>>>>>I heard or read all sorts of stories as far as Clear Channels pay for play or play for pay, concert ticket advantages or control for , legal record label payolas, which all comes around to scratching your head on how did many of these songs make the airwaves in the first place.
When songs are tested, they are tested against the audience of the station that plays them. This is so much better than the old charts where you had no idea who liked a song. Or record sales, which similarly did not tell you demographics or favorite stations or formats.
>>>>>>>>That's what brought the fun of top 40 radio, whether if it was Barry Manilow, Boston, Heatwave, Donny Osmond, Marvin Gaye, Aerosmith, etc. You didn't know who exactly liked or bought the song on an individual, racial, sexual , ethnic basis, but if it sold more then the others, it was played and it was a hit with every other various style of pop music. You had the best of everything all in one.
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fred flintstone
Guest
Jeez.
What have you got against the quote button?
And what's the redhighlighting supposed to mean?
It's just too much trouble wading through these point/counter point posts - trying to figure out which is which and what is being replied to. And how did this use of >>>>> get started. On the old board, > meant the text from the earlier post. I guess here it means the reply (but some people do the opposite).
Don't make it so complicated.
KISS!
Your post looks interesting but I don't want to work this hard.
What have you got against the quote button?
And what's the redhighlighting supposed to mean?
It's just too much trouble wading through these point/counter point posts - trying to figure out which is which and what is being replied to. And how did this use of >>>>> get started. On the old board, > meant the text from the earlier post. I guess here it means the reply (but some people do the opposite).
Don't make it so complicated.
KISS!
Your post looks interesting but I don't want to work this hard.
Z
zumahans
Guest
fred flintstone said:
Quote boxes suck. Hard to read in bright light.
>>>>> And how did this use of >>>>> get started.
Makes sense to me.
BTW, the question mark may be accessed by using an uppercase / .
apco25 said:
In most cases, songs are added locally. Where there are multiple stations in a format, a company may have a phone conference about new music and promotions and such, where individual PDs share feelings on songs. But in 99% of the cases, adds are local.
In larger markets, and I mean the top 100 or more, current based stations usually have some form of call-out. 60-100 people are called every week to 10 days and they score the currents via telephone. Going up or down has little to do with the charts. Most of us don't refer to charts for guidance on adds or moves. They are a reference, such as, "I see the new Bill Smith song is getting added. I'm going to listen to it again and see..."
In other words, in most cases the local audience determines what is a hit.
AMTs (Auditorium Music Tests) are done regularly to maintain all the music. An AMT is mostly to balance the library... to determine what gets played more, what is burnt or needs rest, what songs might make a comeback, etc. http://www.davidgleason.com/Radio Research.htm has a little picture tour of a music test.
Many stations do not test the most current music on the list at an AMT as it tends to get lost among themore familiar tunes.The AMT generally tests from 300 to 500 songs, but multi-day 1,500 song tests can be done.
Stations that can do tests like to have them twice a year, combined with call out if currents are played. I know one oldies staiton that tests 6 times a year!
Most of that is gone, as it did not work. But pay for play was just an ad for a song, nothing more. And the songs originally got on due to the discretinary powers PDs have. Obviously, the best control is not legislation but Arbitron. A PD who plays bad songs, for whatever reason, will get lower ratings and get shown the door.
Unfortunately, this is what killed Top 40. When the FCC mandated all FMs stop simulcasting in the late 60's. we suddenly had trippled the number of competitive facilities in each market. Some FMs peeled the AC side to Toop 40, some peeled the rock side, and some stayed with the pop core. The poor Top 40 stations could not survive, and became far less broad to compete with all the new stations.
I remeber as a kid knowing that there were 3 Top 40's in my hometown, and when one of those MOR songs came on, I switched. Or when the news came on one, I switched. Today, if you are in the mood for one kind of music, you do not need to constantly switch.
zumahans said:
On my keyboard, "/" is the uppercase "7" character.
Z
zumahans
Guest
----->On my keyboard, "/" is the uppercase "7" character.
That's what you get for buying computers at the duty free shop at Che Guevara International Airport, in Panama.
That's what you get for buying computers at the duty free shop at Che Guevara International Airport, in Panama.
Z
zumahans
Guest
----->Today, if you are in the mood for one kind of music, you do not need to constantly switch.
That's right, you just select one genre of your own self-selected music in your IPod (or ITunes) and then press shuffle.
That's right, you just select one genre of your own self-selected music in your IPod (or ITunes) and then press shuffle.
zumahans said:
Actually, it is what I get for buying a ThinkPad with interchangable keyboards.
Z
zumahans
Guest
DavidEduardo said:
I think the following corollaries can be proved:
Standard keyboard : DE's keyboard.
Actual Radio use : DE's theories of radio use.
I'm astonished this has lived for 6 pages and how many days? Years ago, when I still had time to kill, I would go to the mall. Not to shop, I dread shopping. You can learn a lot about people at the mall. This far surpasses the mall. Here's a place to learn. This is an amazing and yet sad commentary. All in one thread we have bigotry, anti-Americanism, pro-America jingoism, delusion and naivete. Is this for real? Everyone is just trying to one-up the previous poster for outrageousness. Right? Somebody makes up a contrived initial post and then everybody tries to out do it. Right? If we haven't reached the bottom of the garbage pail yet, we can certainly touch it from here.
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fred flintstone
Guest
Betrayed said:
The mall gets a cross section of people.
This is a radio board. It includes people who work in radio, used to work in radio, hope to work in radio and assorted radio geeks ("for the love of radio"). This thread reflects people in radio - and, yes, it does surpass the mall.
Betrayed said:
Yeah pretty much that's the way it goes. Someone says something ridiculous. Usually OHara or one of his other identities. Then the trashing of everyone and everything begins. Lather rinse repeat.
Great job moderators. Hey and thanks for sharing with OHara the complaints about his posts that I made. You guys are outstanding. What do you do for an encore pour sugar in my gas tank [EDIT]?
[EDIT=inappropriate content]
In reference to the title of this thread: I don't know if anyone else has pointed this out, but technically, the format is not Hispanic (which refers to Spain and its colonies), but Latino (which refers to Spanish-speaking countries in Central and South America). That is where the roots of the music played on Rumba come from.
A question on Rumba, since I'm not really able to hear it: Do they play much in the way of reggaeton on this station? If not, they should, because that is by far the most popular genre in Latin music right now.
As far as the format goes, you can count me amongst the people that would have liked to see Active or Alternative in Philly. I personally would rather see another company attempt it than CBS or Clear Channel - their stations are among the most bland and cookie cutter in each respective format. Clear Channel did operate a very eclectic, hard-edged Active Rocker, WOSC in Bethany Beach, DE (96 Rock), but that all changed late last year when they were not satisfied with the station's ratings against the much more popular WZBH (93.5 The Beach) run by Great Scott, which is another great Active Rocker that unfortunately doesn't stream online. They soon became "The New 96 Rock - Better Rock Period" and now sound as generic as you can get, much like the majority of all Clear Channel stations.
Someone other than these companies will pick up one of these formats eventually, and it will be worth the wait. Wired 96.5 should drop their awful unfocused programming and just go for it - who the heck listens to them anyway?
A question on Rumba, since I'm not really able to hear it: Do they play much in the way of reggaeton on this station? If not, they should, because that is by far the most popular genre in Latin music right now.
As far as the format goes, you can count me amongst the people that would have liked to see Active or Alternative in Philly. I personally would rather see another company attempt it than CBS or Clear Channel - their stations are among the most bland and cookie cutter in each respective format. Clear Channel did operate a very eclectic, hard-edged Active Rocker, WOSC in Bethany Beach, DE (96 Rock), but that all changed late last year when they were not satisfied with the station's ratings against the much more popular WZBH (93.5 The Beach) run by Great Scott, which is another great Active Rocker that unfortunately doesn't stream online. They soon became "The New 96 Rock - Better Rock Period" and now sound as generic as you can get, much like the majority of all Clear Channel stations.
Someone other than these companies will pick up one of these formats eventually, and it will be worth the wait. Wired 96.5 should drop their awful unfocused programming and just go for it - who the heck listens to them anyway?
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fred flintstone
Guest
SoulCrusher said:
So, you are excluding music and dances from Brazil, where they speak Portuguese?
And the Rumba is considered an African-Cuban dance, which like many so-called "Latin" dances is actually derived from African native dances.
Latin America accounted for 98% of the slave trade and the treatment of slaves in Latin countries was especially cruel and barbarous. Latin American countries are feudal and despotic, which is what happens where the Roman Catholic Church holds sway.
That is ture. Just like with Philly's 106.1, CC alternative stations are known for playing music that doesn't fit the format. I'm sure all the former Y100 listeners, who were a part of y100rocks, and now yrock on XPN, would've hated the station (altough they would probably still listen, since it would be the closest thing, except maybe during the morning, when P&S are on)SoulCrusher said:
O
OHara
Guest
Bottom line is: the original question has not been addressed, why are these Hispanic stations allowed to start a riot against the country they are bleeding? What will happen when more formats flip to Hispanic and it overruns the T. dial, will they take over the USA? I know if a group of whities attacked a bunch of Mexicans or any other group of color (what a phoney line people of color I am pink/brown I guess that is not a color), and the white formatted stations urged them to riot, all hell would of broken loose, and the ACLU would of been right on the case. So why were these Hispanic stations allowed to do this. To you Hack or whatever your name is stop messaging me with your verbal attacks, I told you to email me personally and we can discuss the problem you have with me in person, instead of hiding behind a computer screen and using this messaging system. Be a man instead of a typical not on my block Democratic liberal.
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fred flintstone
Guest
Will We Break 10 Pages Here?
1. The first ammendment. Ever heard of it? If there is anything worthwhile about this country, that's it. How don't care what anybody wants to do with a flag. It's only an icon. When I went into the service, my oath was to the constitution. That moved me then and it still does. Not some piece of cloth.
2. No. Black stations, preachers and infomercials will always be around, too. Most people will have moved to satellite radio.
Hope that answers your questions. Glad to see you have something besides WURD to bitch about.
OHara said:
1. The first ammendment. Ever heard of it? If there is anything worthwhile about this country, that's it. How don't care what anybody wants to do with a flag. It's only an icon. When I went into the service, my oath was to the constitution. That moved me then and it still does. Not some piece of cloth.
2. No. Black stations, preachers and infomercials will always be around, too. Most people will have moved to satellite radio.
Hope that answers your questions. Glad to see you have something besides WURD to bitch about.
- Status