My wishlist for the Boston radio dial....

[merlin843]

WLYNgm don't take things so personally.

Many of us write paragraphs about our opinion, you write as if you are running Sirius or something and it seems defensive.

Remember what the Bard said via Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222–230
"...doth protest too much, methinks."

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

I am not taking anything personally. No reason for me to be defensive about anything.
It is all about business - that is my point, exactly...

"...doth simplify too much, MEthinks." ;D

 

[merlin843]

The Pink Panther soundtrack by Henry Mancini is preferable to Michael Graham or a potpourri of paid programming (say 5 times fast)

 

[argytunes]

WLYNgm...

It's just my 2 cents, but perhaps the radio business would increase if there were a few more risk takers? ???

Any programmer can play COPYCAT RADIO with a competitor. But the innovative programmers...even those who are responsible for an existing format...are going to get more attention and praise from listeners and advertisers when they throw an occasional curve ball into the programming.

Be careful when you toss out the word "PROS"---as you did in one of your earlier posts! And that you're not using the term solely based upon your own definition of the word?

argytunes

 

[merlin843]

Argy, to Jeff Kline's credit, at least he tells us he is the WAZN/WLYN manager. That being said,

1)he works for the radio business, not in the business. He might get his checks from Multi Cultural Broadcasting but he is hustling radio time to the highest bidder. It's simply my opinion that he isn't qualified to tell anyone what will fly or what won't. Jeff won't take risks and won't put his faith in any format - he just wants top dollar for a low-end signal.

2)Anyone who says because it's not currently out there it won't work never listened to Howard Stern. You are absolutely right about risk-takers. There are sheep and there are risk takers. The risk takers like Walt Disney failed miserably time after time after time. Disney's family wanted to have him committed, but now the descendants of that family enjoy luxury beyond belief because of his faith and determination.

Remember when Henry Ford was told the V-8 engine was impossible?
http://www.telusplanet.net/public/bboogaar/why.htm

The Jeff Kline types of the world attempted to fill him with doubt; but one has to consider the source and all due respect to Mr. Kline, sitting in a room hoping people will call to buy his time instead of him pounding the pavement to sell time hardly qualifies him to tell us we are wrong. Of course lip service is the easiest thing for people with no ambition to provide.

If I read the Boston Progressive Talk list correctly Mr. Kline is looking for a quick buck - he wanted 20 thousand dollars to put Boston's Progressive Talk on the air, with no guarantee anyone could hear it. Hardly a risk taker he wants other people's money and other people to do the work.

3)A Soundtrack Format is a great idea. There's a huge untapped base of potential listeners with big bucks that would love to absorb commentary on film soundtracks, interviews with Jerry Goldsmith, Henry Mancini,
Gerald Wilson, etc. etc. and great music that is available only on celluloid that should be on CD.

Ask Varese Sarabande and Rounder what they think of such a format.


Dr. Gene Landrum has done a study of risk takers - I think he was an early shareholder of Chuck E. Cheese or something, but he's well respected and his opinion is in direct conflict with the WLYN GM

http://books.google.com/books?id=DA...=print&ct=result&cd=2&cad=author-navigational

Who are you going to believe, Gene Landrum - noted author - or Jeff Kline, Manager of The Emperor's New Clothes Radio - radio that you can hear if you stand next to the antenna. I'm not trying to be snippy, it is just sad that he comes in here and bashes people when he just doesn't have the skills of, say, Ed McMann, a true radio professional.

 

[TSBench]

Hey, Argy, I’m a film and soundtrack nut, and love discussing formats, so I have a few serious questions on this, because I’d probably like to have a station programming this stuff around…

The focus of the format should be on INSTRUMENTAL film scores as opposed to broadway show tunes.

I think this could be a tough nut, since there really isn’t an identifiable target audience for the soundtracks as there is for the individual films, and the music itself is pretty obscure, because…

1, Most movies bomb, so the soundtracks are familiar to few.
2. Instrumental movie soundtrack music is usually written as background music. Everyone may be familiar with the main theme from The Godfather, but not one in a thousand people can remember anything else from it, and this is from a movie, and sequel, that were blockbusting award winners.
3. Many, if not most, of the widely recognizable and popular instrumental tracks are already found on Music of Your Life-type stations.
4. Movie soundtrack sales suck, and instrumental tracks are even worse.

For example, there have been a total of ten movie soundtracks that have sold 5mil or more albums/CDs, and none of them are instrumentals, and all either were compilations of previously released material or, if original, had a least one single which charted. There is no coherent soundtrack 'genre'. it runs the gamut from rock to classical.

No matter how good the unsold music is, this makes it a pretty tough sell to a station looking to do saleable numbers. And, they can’t even count on the film buff crowd listening, since most of them were, and are, more interested in the visuals.

The latter definitely could be integrated into the programming. But when you consider how much better a piece of film music would sound on AN FM BAND...that's the reason for my suggestion.

Isn’t this sort of the radio version of ‘play it and they will come’? People have been accustomed to the sound of high end audio since the advent of component systems and the rise of FM music stations. The real film music buffs already own the music on CD, so audio quality isn’t anything new for them. And those folks lining up at Borders to buy the soundtrack from Immortal Beloved aren't necessarily going to want to hear The Pink Panther.

I'm aware that there have been a few AM radio stations that have attempted a combination of movie and broadway music. But AM STEREO reproduction (particularly on the upper end of the AM dial) doesn't match the quality of the reception derived from an FM frequency.

This theory only holds together if the reason the stations tanked was because of audio quality, which may well not be the case. I’m not convinced people in large, or even medium-sized, numbers will listen to obscure music because of the audio quality, because some stations and formats fail even when playing non-obscure music in high quality audio.

Even if the film format was integrated into afternoon drive or early evening on a classical radio station...it would be something different for commuters...as well as listeners at home...to enjoy!

Yes. This could be a workable idea, and could be something which possibly WCRB, which is Classical Lite any way, could take a shot at. Plus, if you’re only doing it for an hour or two a day, you could easily work up a cohesive theme for each program, and not stretch yourself too thin by having to go too deep into albums and collections which already have too few useable tunes, But, since a station like WCRB can’t take a flyer on anything that might tank a daypart, you’d probably have to convince them that it has a good chance of working, and may actually improve on what they are currently programming. And you'll have to show that the program would have appeal to more than just film buffs, because there aren't enough of them.

Significant promotion and a good FM signal is the key. If the format is buried on an AM radio station with a weak signal...and the listeners have to find THE SOUNDTRACK STATION---it's an automatic kiss of death

It would certainly be easier to sell and promote this as a short segment of the day, or a weekend afternoon or evening show rather than an entire station programming it. I think you had it right looking at it as a supplement to a compatible formatted station.

My point is this. There's a listening audience for soundtracks and film scores out there. And if the format is hosted by enthusiastic film people who LOVE this music---advertisers (not just video rental stores) are likely to buy time!

As someone who has done it, trust me, nobody is LIKELY to buy time, somebody had better be prepared to SELL it, and they are going to need a good story. Everyone in the programming side of radio thinks that their ideas are no-sweat sells, as long as they’re not the ones who have to sell it. Try this little test (and this kind of market research applies to just about every type of startup)….put together a sales kit for your potential show, and go around to everyone you think is likely to buy time. Every one of them will tell you it’s a terrific idea, and to come back and see them when it’s either ready to go or up and running. When it’s finally time to premier the show, go back to them with a sample air check and an advertising program for them to buy. If one out of fifty still thinks it’s a terrific idea when they have to put up their own money, you’ll be lucky. But you will hear some heartwarming stories about how they’d love to help you out but, for example, “my business partner/wife/accountant/advertising consultant/banker/etc just doesn’t think we have it in the budget right now.” You may think I’m overstating this. You think wrong.

There is, as has been said, an audience for Lithuanian marching music, the problem is figuring out how big it is and if it’s commercially viable. I don’t understand why everyone just blows off the idea of buying a couple of hours of time somewhere (and I think this only applies to unique ideas, and not to the dime-a-dozen somebodies who want to be the next Rush Limbaugh) and seeing if it flies. It’s economically doable, since you don’t have to support an entire station infrastructure, but just come up with enough dough to get the show off the ground and keep it going until you can sell enough advertising to pay for the time and the host and make it self-supporting. I can't think of any format which went on the air 'in the black.' If it can’t support itself, you’ve found the answer to the question if it is economically feasible. If you can prove your theory, which is the only way its ever going to get accepted by a major player, you can take it up the ladder and, perhaps, finally get to the point where someone is going to pay you to do it.

Since most likely nobody will want to kick in, you’ll have to use your own start-up money. The only group harder to find than those elusive advertisers will be everyone here who’s telling you it’s a ‘can’t miss’ proposition when you go to ask them to invest in what they used to think was a ‘sure thing’, but now think is a dangerous crap shoot.
Every air talent I’ve ever known who was looking for a new gig was always willing to invest in anything but their own ideas, be it movie theaters, recording studios, record stores, or car washes. Hopefully, you aren't one of them. If you really think it will work, give it a shot. I'll probably listen. One thing I am sure of is if your start-up plan consists of calling existing formats crap and radio station owners unimaginative, it will never happen.

Good luck.

Regards,
TSB

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

This is America, dude. You are, indeed, entitled to your opinions -
however uninformed and absurd they may be. Keep wishing instead of doing -
that will help! :

Progressive Talk people - they had their chance. They blew it. Last I
checked, zero + anything is more than zero. Tha's what they have now: zero.
Come back a year from now, they'll probably still have zero. Clueless wannabes
who prefer to whine and tear down everybody who do not buy into their nonsense...
They don't believe enough in their own position to put themselves on the line.

Ed McMann - worked with him back in 1976 at WBZ-FM, when I was a college intern,
and he was a high school kid. Was a good guy back then, have not been in touch with him.
Then again, I have made a living in this business (both tv and radio) since 1980. (obviously have no
ambition) I've seen 'em come, I've seen 'em go...

Howard Stern - a national disgrace. Hey, I suppose horny 12 year olds need something
to listen to. Lame sex jokes every 37.2 seconds. Hardly a risk taker, pandering to the
lowest common denominator. Talk about uninspired...

Dr. Gene Landrum? Very impressive! Never heard of him...

Risk takers are the people who actually put up their own cash and resources to make things happen.
Risk takers do not spout nonsense and expect somebody else to pay for it. Risk takers do not
hide in the shadow of anonymity or change their screen names, once people figure out who they really are,
and whine to moderators about being outed. (boo-hoo)

Curious as to what business you are in - and what your qualifications are for said business.
The great and powerful Wizard of Oz is a pathetic little man behind the curtain. Step into the light, dude.
Show yourself, and back up your postion with experience and facts, not smoke and mirrors...
I'm betting that you don't have the guts to do so...

 

[merlin843]

My "Wishlist" for Boston Radio is soundtrack music. I'm not alone. Why are you making this so personal, it seems like a TOS violation. I would rather suffer your abuse on this board than dignify your constant attacks.
I'm not "in" radio - is that a requirement to put your wishes on this board? So sorry if it is.

As for your query:
From what I read on the Save_Progressive Yahoo thing, they made the right decision. The signal is invisible.
You don't spend 20 thou on a car that doesn't drive, no matter how slick the salesguy thinks he is.

 

[argytunes]

There's really no reason to pick any fights with WLYNgm...he (or she) is immovable when it comes to what radio should or shouldn't be? So if it's okay, I'd like to answer some of the questions from TSBench.

1. The reason I suggested focusing on the instrumental music is because some movie themes have a tendency to have more memorability than the films themselves? There are Hitchcock thrillers (like Spellbound and The Man Who Knew Too Much--2nd version) that produced some incredibly familiar themes. [QUE SERA SERA won the Academy Award for Best Motion Picture Song]. Music by Elmer Bernstein [including The Magnificent Seven and The 10 Commandments], Dave Grusin/Steven Bishop [Tootsie] and dozens of scores by John Williams [Jaws, Star Wars, Schindlers List to name 3 bring instant recognition even if the titles of films don't immediately come to mind. Personally, I have nothing against show music, but it's more difficult for others to relate to a broadway show they haven't seen...or an entire score that they've never heard...except (possibly) for the hit song from that show!

2. There are some terrific instrumental pieces that work well as background music. [Classical compositions started this trend decades ago]. But with an air personality (or 2) who has a little bit of knowledge about the film (prior to tracking a cut or the entire soundtrack)...this makes things more interesting to an audience.

3. Soundtrack sales vary from store-to-store....and usually, the cds comprise one or two rows (in a WALMART or TARGET) as opposed to half a section in a BORDERS! With some radio exposure...those sales could increase. It's the same way in a supermarket. Unless radio listeners get a taste of the product, they're unlikely to purchase it!

4. Do you remember a song called "MAH-NA-MAH NA?" It was from a movie called Sweden-Heaven and Hell which was in limited release in 1970. Few people remember the movie, but the song still sticks. It was briefly featured on THE MUPPET SHOW during its syndicated run.

5. Selling anything...including a radio format...depends upon image, familiarity and presentation. I'm not suggesting that any radio station is going to suddenly get rich on soundtracks and film scores, but how can any radio station run the numbers if it doesn't make the attempt to try?

Perhaps introducing this format in late afternoon or early evening drive is a good way to test the waters? I'm ready to jump on board if there are any others who might be interested?

argytunes

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

Hey, TSBench - we have somebody ready to jump on board!
I guess that means he is ready to put up some actual money!
Make sure you get that in cash... ;D

I'm sure that it will be a major topic of conversation on the "Progressive Talk" station here in town!
Oh wait - there isn't one...

 

[TSBench]

So if it's okay, I'd like to answer some of the questions from TSBench.

That's why I asked, I'm curious.

1. The reason I suggested focusing on the instrumental music is because some movie themes have a tendency to have more memorability than the films themselves? There are Hitchcock thrillers (like Spellbound and The Man Who Knew Too Much--2nd version) that produced some incredibly familiar themes. [QUE SERA SERA won the Academy Award for Best Motion Picture Song]. Music by Elmer Bernstein [including The Magnificent Seven and The 10 Commandments], Dave Grusin/Steven Bishop [Tootsie] and dozens of scores by John Williams [Jaws, Star Wars, Schindlers List to name 3 bring instant recognition even if the titles of films don't immediately come to mind. Personally, I have nothing against show music, but it's more difficult for others to relate to a broadway show they haven't seen...or an entire score that they've never heard...except (possibly) for the hit song from that show!

I have no problem with the quality of the music; I have 4 soundtrack CDs in the player in my Explorer. But, you'd need a lot of it, in coherent chunks, to devote a station to it, and I don't think that's possible. It's why I think the dedicated program, running for a couple or three hours, could be the way to go. Sid Mark did pretty well with Sounds of Sinatra in syndication, and that was two hours a week of nothing but Sinatra, and he made it work. Get a couple of the CDs he sent out to the stations and you'll get my drift about themes and cohesion.

2. There are some terrific instrumental pieces that work well as background music. [Classical compositions started this trend decades ago]. But with an air personality (or 2) who has a little bit of knowledge about the film (prior to tracking a cut or the entire soundtrack)...this makes things more interesting to an audience.

Agreed. See my above about Mark. A number of tracks which originated in movie scores are standard on a lot of MOR stations.

3. Soundtrack sales vary from store-to-store....and usually, the cds comprise one or two rows (in a WALMART or TARGET) as opposed to half a section in a BORDERS! With some radio exposure...those sales could increase. It's the same way in a supermarket. Unless radio listeners get a taste of the product, they're unlikely to purchase it!

Yes, and airplay sells CDs. But that puts you in a 'chicken or the egg' conundrum, and your problem is convincing a radio station, or an advertiser, that that invisible market is really out there before those sales actually materialize. When you're playing for real money, that can be a tough pitch. You'd be a lot better off if those sales were better, because it would help you make your case.

4. Do you remember a song called "MAH-NA-MAH NA?" It was from a movie called Sweden-Heaven and Hell which was in limited release in 1970. Few people remember the movie, but the song still sticks. It was briefly featured on THE MUPPET SHOW during its syndicated run.

No, I don't. On the other hand, the number of times I watched the Muppet Show can be counted on that other hand, so I'm not a good judge of the tune.

5. Selling anything...including a radio format...depends upon image, familiarity and presentation. I'm not suggesting that any radio station is going to suddenly get rich on soundtracks and film scores, but how can any radio station run the numbers if it doesn't make the attempt to try?

Because it is a zero sum game for them. If it doesn't work, they are screwed and have to go back to rebuilding the audience that was lost, including the follow-on audiences for the next shows, and keeping an audience is a lot cheaper for a station than rebuilding one. The only stations that wouldn't care are the ones with no audience to lose, and those are, according to you, the very stations you don't want to be on.

Perhaps introducing this format in late afternoon or early evening drive is a good way to test the waters?

Agreed. Probably the only way. But your never going to know until its on the air somewhere, somehow.

I'm ready to jump on board if there are any others who might be interested?

You're about to find out.

Regards.
TSB

 

[TSBench]

Hey, TSBench - we have somebody ready to jump on board!
I guess that means he is ready to put up some actual money!
Make sure you get that in cash..

Not my problem, amigo. This isn't exactly my first country fair I spent 10 years producing and syndicating my own satellite programs, rolling the dice with my own money on every one, both winners and losers, and that was more than enough. I'm too old to be looking for more headaches.

I'll wish him good luck, and stay tuned.

Regards,
TSB

 

[Dighton Rockhead]

Didn't you ever read Mark Twain's book "Tom Sawyer"? Whitewashing the elderly aunt's picket fence in the front yard is so much FUN that people will PAY YOU for the privilege of doing it.

Hey!......It's the credo of brokered time radio. ;D

If I read the Boston Progressive Talk list correctly Mr. Kline is looking for a quick buck - he wanted 20 thousand dollars to put Boston's Progressive Talk on the air, with no guarantee anyone could hear it. Hardly a risk taker he wants other people's money and other people to do the work.

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

Let's see: no valid research, no facts to back up your claims, empty promises
with no specifics, no experience with the real world of business, conspiracy theories galore --
dude, you should be in politics! ;D

In the meantime. your fence remains unpainted and winter is-a-comin'.
Keep on wishing and whining - maybe Santa and his elves will buy this pile of reindeer droppings...

When you can show actual results, let us all know!

 

[TSBench]

Didn't you ever read Mark Twain's book "Tom Sawyer"? Whitewashing the elderly aunt's picket fence in the front yard is so much FUN that people will PAY YOU for the privilege of doing it.

Well, with some programming, both brokered and not, some marbles and a rat on a string might be in the ballpark, value-wise. I’m not sure if it’s legal tender anywhere other than St Pete, MO, though.

Hey!......It's the credo of brokered time radio.

I don't understand the visceral dislike for the concept of brokered radio. Yes, a lot of the programming sucks. But a lot of non-brokered programming sucks too, Radio is loaded with throw-away programming, as anyone who's ever listened to JT The Brick is well aware. But, since brokered stations aren't in the ratings game, they offer the realistic opportunity for someone with an unproven idea for what they think is a viable program to actually get the G**d**n thing on the air, work out the bugs, flesh out the format, and find out if it has a chance, without risking having their house go on the auction block if they're wrong. This is bad? Whether or not a program is any good is the responsibility of the producer, not the brokering station. It isn’t the job of the brokering station to pass judgment on the program idea, that’s the job of the marketplace. It’s job is, for a fee, to provide the production facilities and get it on the air. That’s it. The rest is entirely up to you. Why treat the guy selling brokered radio time like he's a crack dealer? He is offering something you can’t do on your own. Sooner or later, if you are lucky, you might actually find someone to pay you for doing the show. But, until that time, that brokered station, and your own will, may well be the only game in town. The position that something is good idea only if someone else is willing to risk their money on it usually means it's not going to happen. If you subscribe to the idea that a brokered show has to suck because some other brokered shows suck, it's usually is a good indication that the radio business probably isn't your line. Pat Whitley, whose restaurant show is brokered, would probably agree, between trips to the bank, that is.

It has never, in history, been easier, or cheaper, to produce, syndicate, and distribute radio programs.

If you want to do someone else’s idea of good programming, try to get a gig at a non-brokered commercial radio station. If you want to do your own idea of good programming, find a station which will let you do whatever it is you want to do. Life's simple like that.

Regards,
TSB.

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

Eloquently stated, TSB! A brokered program is only as good as the individual
or group who produces it... Put it all out there, and let the chips fall where they may...
Brokered time is merely another vehicle to get someone's vision actually on the air.
It is no better or worse a delivery system - just different... All part of that adapt and survive
mode of doing business.

Me personally, as a listener -- I like 92.5, WXRV, the River, alot. Fairly broad playlist, but
is tough for me to hear in certain locations. ..

 

[Finn]

So WLYNgm, why don't you buy some of your station's time and show us what you've got?

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

What I have is a program schedule that serves its intended audience,
with happy listeners, happy programmers, and happy management. It is to
those who think they have all of the answers, and have, indeed, invented a
better mousetrap, the challenge is made... If a truly great programming idea is
not on the air anywhere, and nobody has the opportunity to hear it, does
it make a sound? Time to step up to the plate and take a swing...

 

[Finn]

What I have is a program schedule that serves its intended audience,
with happy listeners, happy programmers, and happy management.

Western suburbs have target demo for Spanish simulcast?

 

[WLYNWAZNgm]

Framingham, Natick, south side of Waltham. Absolutely, amigo!