Nash FM's Signal

[Barry]

If you have listened to the new Nash FM on 94.7, how has the signal been? Where have you been listening?
In southern Westchester and Nassau County, where I have heard it so far, it is generally passable, but not as solid as most of the other major local FM's.

 

[ansky212]

I was curious about this too. If you read Nash's Facebook comments there was a person yesterday who wrote that they couldn't receive the station in Manhattan. Some people in Nassau are saying the signal is fine, while others say it is weak there.

Obviously the people in NJ will have the best reception, and I would assume it's fine up into Rockland county too.

 

[reelyreal]

I wonder how much of the transmission system has been replaced and how much of it is still old stuff. I'd be curious to see how much of a signal improvement is realized if they replace the transmission line and antenna along with the transmitter.

 

[GSP163]

Obviously the people in NJ will have the best reception, and I would assume it's fine up into Rockland county too.

I tested it in the car up in Rockland along the NYS Thruway.....Signal seemed great

 

[DanStrassberg]

I wonder how much of the transmission system has been replaced and how much of it is still old stuff. I'd be curious to see how much of a signal improvement is realized if they replace the transmission line and antenna along with the transmitter.

Don't the transmission line and antenna that 94.7 is now using HAVE to be new? IIRC, for several weeks only a few months ago, WFME conducted extensive tests under STA from a new tower just a few feet from the old one. There was a good reason for that STA, although I can't recall what it was (maybe to evaluate reception of 94.7 when it transmitted from a greater HAAT with correspondingly reduced ERP), but I suspect that the transfer of the license to Cumulus was not consummated until the tests from the new tower were successfully concluded.

 

[HHH]

I was curious about this too. If you read Nash's Facebook comments there was a person yesterday who wrote that they couldn't receive the station in Manhattan. Some people in Nassau are saying the signal is fine, while others say it is weak there.

Obviously the people in NJ will have the best reception, and I would assume it's fine up into Rockland county too.

94.7 broadcasts from First Mountain in West Orange, NJ about 15 miles east of the city (along with WFMU, although WFMU has much less power).

Here is the view of Manhattan from the Nash FM transmitter site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WatchungVista.jpg

I am sure that if you are on the west side of Manhattan, the signal is quite good.

But, as you can see, they have to try to penetrate that wall of buildings to get into midtown and the east side.

 

[TimeIsTight]

Here is the view of Manhattan from the Nash FM transmitter site:

That is a good picture that gives the general idea, but that picture, (according to the web page) while taken along a similar, though disconnected, First Mountain ridge line, is actually the view from North Haledon, which is more than 12-miles north of the West Orange transmitter site.

From the West Orange site, you get a clear view of North Jersey down to Atlantic Highlands on the shore, Staten Island, all of Brooklyn and part of Queens. With binoculars on a clear day you can easily see the control tower at JFK airport in Queens.

The actual more southern view also allows the 94.7 signal to slip out to Queens and Nassau through the geological gap between Midtown and Downtown Manhattan. That gap which includes areas like Soho, and Greenwich Village exists due to a lack of underlying bedrock that would allow the building of skyscrapers. That's why there are skyscrapers in Midtown and Downtown but not in the middle of the island. The new skyscrapers in Jersey City are on the same bedrock as lower Manhattan.

It should also be noted that while the West Orange tower's height above average terrain is listed as 679 feet, its 899-feet above mean sea level is more significant when measuring the signal to the east, where from that point all the way out to Long Island, there are a few hills but the geology is mostly flat, and not "significantly" higher than sea level. You have to remember that the average terrain measurements include the First Mountain ridge that runs north and south and it really doesn't block the signal to many potential listeners.

In round numbers, the ESB antenna is 1,400 feet above sea level, and the 94.7 antenna is at 900-feet but the ESB signals are just under 7-kw and the 94.7 transmitter is almost 24-kw.

 

[reelyreal]

I wonder how much of the transmission system has been replaced and how much of it is still old stuff. I'd be curious to see how much of a signal improvement is realized if they replace the transmission line and antenna along with the transmitter.

Don't the transmission line and antenna that 94.7 is now using HAVE to be new? IIRC, for several weeks only a few months ago, WFME conducted extensive tests under STA from a new tower just a few feet from the old one. There was a good reason for that STA, although I can't recall what it was (maybe to evaluate reception of 94.7 when it transmitted from a greater HAAT with correspondingly reduced ERP), but I suspect that the transfer of the license to Cumulus was not consummated until the tests from the new tower were successfully concluded.

The STA was to use the taller tower next door to see if the higher position of the antenna would result in better coverage. It did, and the station is now licensed for the taller tower with a higher HAAT with less ERP. However, the way I understood the filings, the old ERI 5-bay was simply moved from the lower tower to the taller tower, utilizing the old transmission line that once fed the WXNY auxiliary antenna.

 

[ansky212]

94.7 broadcasts from First Mountain in West Orange, NJ about 15 miles east of the city (along with WFMU, although WFMU has much less power).

Here is the view of Manhattan from the Nash FM transmitter site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WatchungVista.jpg

I am sure that if you are on the west side of Manhattan, the signal is quite good.

But, as you can see, they have to try to penetrate that wall of buildings to get into midtown and the east side.

Actually that is not the view from the WRXP transmitter site. If you read the caption of that picture, it was taken in Hawthorne, which is about 10 miles north of West Orange. I live in West Orange, about a mile down the road from the WRXP transmitter. The actual view from the transmitter site looks directly towards the World Trade Center in lower Manhattan.

 

[Markd]

Car radios in manhattan should have no problems getting WFME/WRXP/WNSH or whatever calls this station winds up with. It probably will have a tough time coming in inside concrete buildings. Reception inside such buildings is a bit shaky. Stations on the empire state building come in with no problems I would think because they are right by the transmitters. But even something 15 miles away may not reach such buildings. Hey when I worked in a concrete building in Morris County, WDHA and WFME and WAWZ all came in easily. The NYC FM stations like CBS FM, Z 100, WPLJ and others faded in and out and I had to play with the antenna to get them consistantly. In places other than Manhattan Nash should come in fine. One idea is maybe a transelator in Manhattan for Nash FM??? Other than that best way to get station is an outside antenna, cable, or online streaming. Some buildings in Manhattan do have antenna wiring in the frame like the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels do. Maybe that could be the answer? But the times I drove in Manhattan I checked if I could get WFME out of curiousity and I always did with no problems in my car. I even got Y 107 a bit fading oin and out back in the late 90's.

 

[yossefgershon]

I work in Williamsburg brooklyn and the station is weak to no signal in my office.It comes in good in my car but is stronger as in Kensington,midwood and boro ok.I am happy that the signal is there---unlike thunder which cannot get thru the pirate signal!!!!

 

[ansky212]

Does the FCC website still have coverage maps? Does anyone have a link for this station?

 

[davideduardo]

Does the FCC website still have coverage maps? Does anyone have a link for this station?

This is the FCC 54dbu protected contour.

https://maps.google.com/?q=http://t...freq=94.7&contour=54&city=NEWARK&state=NJ.kml

The usable contour for in-home and at-work listening is around 65 dbu, which would be about 20% inside the innermost red contour on this map:

http://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=WRXP&service=FM&status=L&hours=U

Since 75% of NYC area listening is not in the car, the 65 dbu is the one where most of the listening will take place.

 

[MoldaMania182]

I did a bunch of driving around the area last weekend with it and came up with this simple conclusion. It's basically as expected. Overall, the signal is pretty good - especially in Jersey. It's booming well into Flemington even. It's noticeably weaker east, and somewhat stronger to the north into Rockland and Orange than Empire stations. I would also say it's better than WFME ever was from my little samplings of that over the years. However...Empire stations definitely 'fill their frequency more solidly" shall we say. Example, driving down 17 in Bergen county there's places Nash gets a little scratchy briefly here and there where Empire's certainly do not.

 

[Giacomo Siffredi]

Empire stations definitely 'fill their frequency more solidly" shall we say. Example, driving down 17 in Bergen county there's places Nash gets a little scratchy briefly here and there where Empire's certainly do not.

Presumably those places you are referring to is the Route 17 portion running through Hasbrouck Heights, Wood-Ridge, and Carlstadt

 

[GSP163]

Most likely because the hills to the west that run along Route 17 in that area weaken 94.7's signal.

 

[djl]

Around Massapequa Park Long Island (Southeastern Nassau County just west of the Suffolk Border), Nash FM's signal is quite poor. I can hardly hold onto it in either of my cars. I have a Radio Shack Directional FM Antenna in my attic and Nash barely brings in a signal above my receiver's Stereo/Mute Threshold. The ESB stations come in quite well in both cars and on my antenna.

Why is there concern about short spacing with WWSK 94.3 when their signal barely reaches into Nassau County? WKJY 98.3 has a transmitter in Hempstead. Why would short spacing be a concern if WWSK were to move to ESB or ultimately to 1WTC when complete?

Are there any plans for Nash to move to NYC so as to increase their signal on Long Island?

 

[roadrunner]

It's listenable in Trenton (recently moved here) and doesn't fight with 94.5 PST but doesn't come in as well as Lite FM 106.7 (well duh, it's not as powerful). Glad that NYC has a country station although I'm not into it. It's AFT that someone picked up the format after 17 years without one.

 

[fybush]

Why is there concern about short spacing with WWSK 94.3 when their signal barely reaches into Nassau County? WKJY 98.3 has a transmitter in Hempstead. Why would short spacing be a concern if WWSK were to move to ESB or ultimately to 1WTC when complete?

Are there any plans for Nash to move to NYC so as to increase their signal on Long Island?

There's a table of spacings (found at 47USC73.207, should you care to seek it out) that specifies the minimum distance between a class A station like WWSK and a class B station like WNSH on a second-adjacent channel. (Those distances were chosen such that certain predicted signal levels from each station won't overlap; they're based on receiver design as it existed in the 1960s, which is why they provide somewhat more protection than a modern receiver might require.)

Because both stations (then WGSM-FM 94.3 and WJRZ-FM 94.7) exceeded that minimum distance at the time the table went into effect in 1964, those two stations are deemed to be "fully spaced." This differs from other second-adjacent situations (including WNSH vs. WJLK-FM) that did not meet that minimum distance prior to 1964. Those short-spacings are grandfathered in, which is why WNSH doesn't have to consider WJLK-FM at all if it attempts to move, and why 103.9 and 93.5 could move to the Bronx from Westchester.

There is another section of the rules (47USC73.215) that allows for a certain degree of short-spacing if a station can demonstrate it still won't overlap protected contours. Even that section includes a minimum mileage spacing, which is still larger than the Empire-to-current-WWSK distance.

If WNSH desires a move to Empire (which it may; there's a clause in the sale contract providing for an additional payment to Family Stations if 94.7 is moved to Manhattan), it will have to find a way to relocate WWSK to a site that meets those minimum spacings (as well as certain other interference criteria to stations on 94.3 in Connecticut and New Jersey). It will also require a directional antenna at WMAS-FM in Massachusetts, which is also on 94.7 and which is also owned by Cumulus.

 

[HHH]

94.7 broadcasts from First Mountain in West Orange, NJ about 15 miles east of the city (along with WFMU, although WFMU has much less power).

Here is the view of Manhattan from the Nash FM transmitter site:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WatchungVista.jpg

I am sure that if you are on the west side of Manhattan, the signal is quite good.

But, as you can see, they have to try to penetrate that wall of buildings to get into midtown and the east side.

Actually that is not the view from the WRXP transmitter site. If you read the caption of that picture, it was taken in Hawthorne, which is about 10 miles north of West Orange. I live in West Orange, about a mile down the road from the WRXP transmitter. The actual view from the transmitter site looks directly towards the World Trade Center in lower Manhattan.

Yes, I stand corrected, but as another poster said, it gives the general idea of the "wall of buildings" challenge for reception in midtown, the east side and points east/southeast.