NBC O&O in L.A.?

[RicoGregg]

I can remember listening to NBC radio programs like Monitor on KFI as far back as the 50s, and I know that KFI ran NBC long before that. KFI was never owned by NBC.

I know the network had a large facility on Sunset & Vine many years ago, but I'm wondering if NBC ever owned a station in L.A.

If not, was there a specific reason why?

???

 

[MusicMaestro]

I can remember listening to NBC radio programs like Monitor on KFI as far back as the 50s, and I know that KFI ran NBC long before that. KFI was never owned by NBC.

I know the network had a large facility on Sunset & Vine many years ago, but I'm wondering if NBC ever owned a station in L.A.


If not, was there a specific reason why?

???
[/quote
Unfortunately, NBC has never owned a radio station in Los Angeles. Back in the day, their West Coast radio programming came from KPO-AM in San Francisco, which later became KNBC-AM, & is now KNBR-AM. When GE took over NBC in '86, they decided that radio was not a part of their future, so they sold the network's radio programming to Westwood One, & the individual stations were sold to various properties.

 

[nmoore6676]

I can remember listening to NBC radio programs like Monitor on KFI as far back as the 50s, and I know that KFI ran NBC long before that. KFI was never owned by NBC.

I know the network had a large facility on Sunset & Vine many years ago, but I'm wondering if NBC ever owned a station in L.A.

If not, was there a specific reason why?

???

The facility in Hollywood was to accommodate the movie people like Bob Hope and Jack Benny who would not have traveled to San Francisco to do live radio shows for them. For whatever reason NBC felt that San Francisco was a better location for their West Coast facility, but afterward realized that they needed to be in Hollywood. I have no idea why they didn't also get a station here as well, maybe all of the available channels were taken and nobody would sell theirs.

 

[TVC1500]

Actually their West Coast headquarters was on Sunset & Vine from 1938-1964.
In the photos I've seen it looked like it took up almopst an entire block. beautiful
art deco building, which also housed KNBT (later KNBC) until the move to Burbank.

But KPO was their flagship west coast station. Always thought that was strange, KFI was
such an odd operation anyway under Earl C Anthony. Kind of a rural station in a huge
market.

When I was a kid in the early 70's they were still doing Polka music, frost reports,
& lots of farm news. It wasnt until the Cox Sisters bought the station that it was modernized.
Although there was apparently an ill-fated attempt in 1969 under program director Mark Denis
who hired Al Jazzbauex Collins, Robert L Collins (later of KCBQ & WGN fame) & others. Ownership
apparently wasn't ready for a contemporary pop-adult station and scrapped it. Leaving only
the great Lohman & Barkely. Anyone know the back story to that? Of course years later Mark
was to return to KFI, his presence is still missed on that radio station.

 

[nmoore6676]

Actually their West Coast headquarters was on Sunset & Vine from 1938-1964.
In the photos I've seen it looked like it took up almopst an entire block. beautiful
art deco building, which also housed KNBT (later KNBC) until the move to Burbank.

But KPO was their flagship west coast station. Always thought that was strange, KFI was
such an odd operation anyway under Earl C Anthony. Kind of a rural station in a huge
market.

When I was a kid in the early 70's they were still doing Polka music, frost reports,
& lots of farm news. It wasnt until the Cox Sisters bought the station that it was modernized.
Although there was apparently an ill-fated attempt in 1969 under program director Mark Denis
who hired Al Jazzbauex Collins, Robert L Collins (later of KCBQ & WGN fame) & others. Ownership
apparently wasn't ready for a contemporary pop-adult station and scrapped it. Leaving only
the great Lohman & Barkely. Anyone know the back story to that? Of course years later Mark
was to return to KFI, his presence is still missed on that radio station.

Actually the big 50KW clear channels were intended to be farmer information stations. The little class D and C AM stations were not prevalent in the early days of radio. WLW in Cincinnati also an original NBC affiliate and originator of network programming ran a working farm near their Mason Ohio transmitter. I can vaguely recall hearing "Every Body's Farm" broadcast from a studio at the station's farm. Even the big Chicago stations ran rural tinged programming, most notably the "WLS National Barndance" which gave an early radio home to Gene Autry.

 

[emailfailed]

Actually their West Coast headquarters was on Sunset & Vine from 1938-1964.
In the photos I've seen it looked like it took up almopst an entire block. beautiful
art deco building, which also housed KNBT (later KNBC) until the move to Burbank.

But KPO was their flagship west coast station. Always thought that was strange, KFI was
such an odd operation anyway under Earl C Anthony. Kind of a rural station in a huge
market.

When I was a kid in the early 70's they were still doing Polka music, frost reports,
& lots of farm news. It wasnt until the Cox Sisters bought the station that it was modernized.
Although there was apparently an ill-fated attempt in 1969 under program director Mark Denis
who hired Al Jazzbauex Collins, Robert L Collins (later of KCBQ & WGN fame) & others. Ownership
apparently wasn't ready for a contemporary pop-adult station and scrapped it. Leaving only
the great Lohman & Barkely. Anyone know the back story to that? Of course years later Mark
was to return to KFI, his presence is still missed on that radio station.

Well, the "FI" in KFI stood for "Farm Information."

While San Francisco and New York were grand bustling cities by the time KFI signed on, L.A. and Southern California was a very different place with very little hint of what it would blossom into shortly. The Southland was just one big farming place with rural dirt roads and plenty of orange groves.

Of course today we have streets called Orange Grove and Lemon, among other streets named after Southern California's rich citrus agricultural past. Sadly Orange County is getting ready to tear down its last orange grove.

Indeed driving along the 5 we've come along way from probably ever needing a station broadcasting "farm information."

 

[LKellerIII]

I'm not exactly ancient (born 56 - 1952), and I remember the farms and citrus groves in the San Fernando Valley up into the late 50s and early 60s. They were being eaten up by housing sub-divisions at an alarming rate, but small farms were not uncommon even then.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually the big 50KW clear channels were intended to be farmer information stations. The little class D and C AM stations were not prevalent in the early days of radio.

Except for WHO and maybe KMOX and WCCO and WBAP/WFAA, why were most of them put in major cities and not farm communities. There are none in Kansas and Oklahoma and Nebraska and the Dakotas, for example.

The clears just found they could make lots of money early in the morning. They were not intended to be farm stations per se.

The big farm stations were ones like WNAX and WMT and KMA and KFYR and KELO and KGBC and KGGF and such.

 

[jh]

One exception, WLS in Chicago, owned by Prairie Farmer magazine from 1928-1959. It was essentially a farm station until ABC bought out Prairie Farmer magazine and changed the format.

 

[Garrett]

One exception, WLS in Chicago, owned by Prairie Farmer magazine from 1928-1959. It was essentially a farm station until ABC bought out Prairie Farmer magazine and changed the format.

Wasn't WLS started by Sears & Roebuck? I thought W-L-S stood for "World's Largest Store?"

 

[davideduardo]

Wasn't WLS started by Sears & Roebuck? I thought W-L-S stood for "World's Largest Store?"

Sears put it on, then sold to Prairie Farmer.

 

[nmoore6676]

Actually the big 50KW clear channels were intended to be farmer information stations. The little class D and C AM stations were not prevalent in the early days of radio.

Except for WHO and maybe KMOX and WCCO and WBAP/WFAA, why were most of them put in major cities and not farm communities. There are none in Kansas and Oklahoma and Nebraska and the Dakotas, for example.

The clears just found they could make lots of money early in the morning. They were not intended to be farm stations per se.

The big farm stations were ones like WNAX and WMT and KMA and KFYR and KELO and KGBC and KGGF and such.

David, I beg to differ, in fact the justification for the clear channels was for the coverage they provided to rural areas far from the cities they were centered in. In those days 50 thousand watts were not needed to cover even New York City. When Powell Crosley and others sought to increase the power to 500 thousand watts it was touted as being able to provide broadcast coverage to the unserved rural communities. KFI (where the F I was for Farmer's Information) was one of those handful of stations seeking the power increase.

It is true that they made extra money with some of them running all night programs selling farm products like baby chickens. Then there were the ones that sold religious products which led to the classic song Paul Newman sang in "Cool Hand Luke". I can still remember as a kid when most radio stations (the ones without the flame thrower transmitters) went off at midnight or 1AM with the "Star Spangled Banner", except for WIZE in Springfield, Ohio which played "Beautiful Ohio".

It was later that the idea of putting 250 and 500 watt AM stations on to serve "local communities" got really rolling and the daytimers also came on strong which put a dent in the super power broadcasting concept which never got officially authorized and the experimental authority granted to WLW was allowed to lapse. This also gave rise to Gates Radio which specialized in transmitters for the low power market. The big transmitters were mostly engineered by companies like Western Electric, RCA and Westinghouse.

 

[davideduardo]

David, I beg to differ, in fact the justification for the clear channels was for the coverage they provided to rural areas far from the cities they were centered in. In those days 50 thousand watts were not needed to cover even New York City.

The classes, clear, regional and local (Class IV) were the product of the reregulation in about 1934 and the preceeding regulation of about 1927. There had been very few high power stations prior to around the very late 30's, due to technology and the allocatons schemes of early radio.

The classes of channel became a de-facto segretation into three power levels based on the late 20's reallocations. The act that created what is today's FCC formalized it in 1934, and the final allocations were reset by NARBA in 1941-1942.

You can see the global and individual changes at http://www.davidgleason.com/Radio_Archives.htm

When Powell Crosley and others sought to increase the power to 500 thousand watts it was touted as being able to provide broadcast coverage to the unserved rural communities. KFI (where the F I was for Farmer's Information) was one of those handful of stations seeking the power increase.

The Clear Channel Broadcasters Association included, I believe, all 25 of the 1 A Clears who continued appealing and filing till the final denial of superpower in 1967.

KFI had farm programs early in the monring for areas like the Coachella Valley and the orchards of San Fernando and the OC. Today, KFI is unlistenable in the Coachella Valley due to noise... but the point was that there was revenue in early morning farm shows. The rest of the day, KFI was an LA based network station, not a farm station. And Mr. Anthony, who also owned KECA (790 KABC today).

It was later that the idea of putting 250 and 500 watt AM stations on to serve "local communities" got really rolling

"Later" was the tail end of the 20's, where channels like 1310 and 1210 were limited, at first, to 100 watts. Everything we have today came out of the changes of the late 70's as refined in the thirties.

The FCC decided to allocate clears because they could never envision towns like Alpena or Bishop or Pagosa Springs having their own stations... in part because of the issues of network interconnection, an expensive and frail thing in those days. Clears were not just for farmers. They were for the tens of thousands of places like Lake City, Florida, that had no local radio and was not expected to.

This also gave rise to Gates Radio which specialized in transmitters for the low power market. The big transmitters were mostly engineered by companies like Western Electric, RCA and Westinghouse.

Gates specialized in gear for the independent and local station because there were more of them in the post year days. Gates realized much faster than RCA or Collins that there were only a couple of dozen 50 kw stations, while thousands of lower power stations were being licensed. Gates also designed boards and such for stations that did not form part of networks, and needed boards designed for lots of local originations and remotes. Anyone remember the NEMO keys on the old boards?

 

[nmoore6676]

David, I beg to differ, in fact the justification for the clear channels was for the coverage they provided to rural areas far from the cities they were centered in. In those days 50 thousand watts were not needed to cover even New York City.

The classes, clear, regional and local (Class IV) were the product of the reregulation in about 1934 and the preceeding regulation of about 1927. There had been very few high power stations prior to around the very late 30's, due to technology and the allocatons schemes of early radio.[quote

Again I beg to differ. KDKA and WLW went to 50KW in 1927 or 28. After that and until 1935 there several stations added with the maximum power, including KFI and WEAF which would become WNBC and now WFAN. It is true that initially small powered stations abounded, because many of them were owned by people or organizations who didn't stick with it. Also by 1927 there were so many that there was mass confusion as to who was on and where. There were no real controls until 1934 when most of the big guys had staked a claim on what were designated as "clear channels". Those channels were to provide service to rural areas and of course they broadcasters were into making money so those programs were sponsored and by advertisers catering to the intended audience. There was also the thinking that these stations would provide emergency news and communication in disasters which happened notably with WHAS Louisville during the Ohio River Flood of 1937.

Today there are a lot of 50 thousand watt stations with restricted patterns and are just at that level because they feel they need it to overcome background noise. Those are not the same as the original flame throwers which covered vast areas with groundwave signal and even more at night with skip. Now no one listens to anything but local radio and I think DXing is a dying hobby as well. The 100 and 250 watt stations are almost all gone except where they are tightly spaced or the owners want to keep them small. I checked the old radio logs from the twenties and there were gazillions of 50 and 100 watt stations even in big cities back then, but there was no noise from all of the gadgets and appliances which abound in all of our homes and offices.

 

[davideduardo]

Again I beg to differ. KDKA and WLW went to 50KW in 1927 or 28. After that and until 1935 there several stations added with the maximum power, including KFI and WEAF which would become WNBC and now WFAN. It is true that initially small powered stations abounded, because many of them were owned by people or organizations who didn't stick with it.
[/quote]

In 1927, we had just a couple of high powered stations, while channels such as 1200 and 1310 were used for 100 watters or a few 250 watters. The basics of local, regional and clears was set, but not too many stations had the equipment to go to higher power.

The real issue,k though, is that early morning empty channels gave many stations an opportunity to do farm programming in Whichata and Shenandoah or Fargo or Bismark or Sioux Falls. The clears were not as needed for farm info as the good regionals like WIBW were.

 

[ercjncpr]

Actually their West Coast headquarters was on Sunset & Vine from 1938-1964.
In the photos I've seen it looked like it took up almopst an entire block. beautiful
art deco building, which also housed KNBT (later KNBC) until the move to Burbank.

But KPO was their flagship west coast station. Always thought that was strange, KFI was
such an odd operation anyway under Earl C Anthony. Kind of a rural station in a huge
market.

When I was a kid in the early 70's they were still doing Polka music, frost reports,
& lots of farm news. It wasnt until the Cox Sisters bought the station that it was modernized.
Although there was apparently an ill-fated attempt in 1969 under program director Mark Denis
who hired Al Jazzbauex Collins, Robert L Collins (later of KCBQ & WGN fame) & others. Ownership
apparently wasn't ready for a contemporary pop-adult station and scrapped it. Leaving only
the great Lohman & Barkely. Anyone know the back story to that? Of course years later Mark
was to return to KFI, his presence is still missed on that radio station.

They also had 50s comedian Robert Q. Lewis with a live talk show from uiversal Studios circa 1972. You are right, it was a very old fashioned operation. Up until about 1969, their legal top of the hour ID always was: THIS IS 50 THOUSAND WATT CLEAR CHANNEL K-F-I, LOS ANGELES, OWNED BY EARLE C. ANTHONY INCORPORATED

Ironic that they are a little less than 50,000 watt CLEAR CHANNEL outlet today! ;D

 

[nmoore6676]

Actually their West Coast headquarters was on Sunset & Vine from 1938-1964.
In the photos I've seen it looked like it took up almopst an entire block. beautiful
art deco building, which also housed KNBT (later KNBC) until the move to Burbank.

But KPO was their flagship west coast station. Always thought that was strange, KFI was
such an odd operation anyway under Earl C Anthony. Kind of a rural station in a huge
market.

When I was a kid in the early 70's they were still doing Polka music, frost reports,
& lots of farm news. It wasnt until the Cox Sisters bought the station that it was modernized.
Although there was apparently an ill-fated attempt in 1969 under program director Mark Denis
who hired Al Jazzbauex Collins, Robert L Collins (later of KCBQ & WGN fame) & others. Ownership
apparently wasn't ready for a contemporary pop-adult station and scrapped it. Leaving only
the great Lohman & Barkely. Anyone know the back story to that? Of course years later Mark
was to return to KFI, his presence is still missed on that radio station.

They also had 50s comedian Robert Q. Lewis with a live talk show from uiversal Studios circa 1972. You are right, it was a very old fashioned operation. Up until about 1969, their legal top of the hour ID always was: THIS IS 50 THOUSAND WATT CLEAR CHANNEL K-F-I, LOS ANGELES, OWNED BY EARLE C. ANTHONY INCORPORATED

Ironic that they are a little less than 50,000 watt CLEAR CHANNEL outlet today! ;D

Having lived about half of my life here now, previously in SW, Ohio, there are a lot of parallels between KFI and WLW. They were both of course 50,000 watt stations and also both were owned by powerful men (Earle C. Anthony and Powell Crosley, Jr.) WLW and Crosley Broadcasting was purchased by Avco in the late 40's (or early 50's) and gradually morphed into Avco (later Avco Embassy) Broadcasting. The "Everybody's Farm Broadcast" and the farm itself disappeared along the way. Somehow though I miss those old and somewhat corny programs. They had charm and I believe more listener loyalty than a lot of what is on today.

Does any body know if any of the other 50KW clear channels were single owner operations? My memory can not dredge up any.

 

[fybush]

Does any body know if any of the other 50KW clear channels were single owner operations? My memory can not dredge up any.

Plenty of 'em!

Even if you limit it to the I-A clears, you've got WSM (National Life & Accident Insurance Co.), WGN (Tribune), WSB (Atlanta Journal), WBAP (Amon Carter)/WFAA (Dallas Morning News), WCCO (Washburn Crosby Co.), WHAS (Louisville Courier-Journal), WWL (Loyola U. of the South), WLS (Prairie Farmer), WHO (Palmer), WTIC (Travelers Insurance Co.), KSL (LDS Church), and WHAM (Stromberg Carlson).

Those were the days...

 

[ercjncpr]

You can see the global and individual changes at http://www.davidgleason.com/Radio_Archives.htm

Thanks, David, for this link , I had not seen that site before!

 

[davideduardo]

You can see the global and individual changes at http://www.davidgleason.com/Radio_Archives.htm

Thanks, David, for this link , I had not seen that site before!

I have made some significant revisions this weekend. You can get to them directly via www.americanradiohistory.com as well.

Of interest are the new scans of the pre and post NARBA Radex magazines, as well as a full scan of the 1968 Jones Log and many more Whites and Stevensons logs.