New ClassX is a great radio station!

[radiomike]

Some good points but .....Still I disagree you are pointing things out from a distance. It comes across as your second guessing that they do not know what they are doing or that they do not know non-comm rules and regs. I'm sure many in the non-comm biz has seen the DEI site. Anytime a non-comm is not NPR based it brings out the ney sayers. DEI is a HUGE NPR supporter. Sure there are rules ALL non-comms must follow but not all on the DEI site are FCC regs. NPR and PRI do not make the rules they simply follow the rules set forth by the FCC (how poor they are written or not). The rules are clear but to say a non-comm station must sound like a typical non-comm because CC or others will be listening is crazy. If they follow the non-comm regs and FCC guides for underwriting then no problem.
As to any kind of remotes I have not seen much in the way of FCC writings or guidlines saying what you can and can not do. Do you have a refrence? I have heard many non-comms do them at sporting events, fairs and festivals but not sure about businesses. I have read about the restrictions but never seen the rules in writing.
As of late ClassX has been getting better every day.

Ok, Let's take this one step at a time. I do not live in the Cincinatti metro. I visit there, due to relatives or business from time to time, so it is at a distance.
Seond, DEI is made up of many different stations. Large, Small, NPR members, non-members, community stations. They are a membership organization to help non-commercial stations fundraise, in both traditional "public radio methods" such as funddrives and underwriting, to non-traditional ways such as internet, long term gifts, foundations, etc. Thus, they are not supporters of NPR. Take a look at this page, which lists some information on FCC based guildelines for underwriting credit language at the national level, to keep conistant and legal content. http://www.deiworksite.org/index.asp?Type=B_LIST&SEC={29835A56-1B98-49D8-8A6B-16E934158206}

Third, there is nothing in my post or anything else to say that your station has to sound a certain way. The caution was that if your station in its on air copy sounds like a commercial station, meaning the underwriting copy, then it will gather attention. This is even more so if the annoucements are highly produced. The FCC has stated this in the links below, which carries all kinds of information to violations and other restrictions non-commercial stations have to live with compared to their commercial cousins. The problem is that either stations don't know the rules or they do, and try to stretch or get away with it, until caught. Many feel they have to do this to get the money. Sadly, all they have to do is educate the business owner on the power of underwriting on their station, and they don't have to use language that is illegal.

The FCC has cited stations and mentions in some of the links below that unless their is some overwhelming public interest aspect, non-commercial stations are limited in what they can do in terms of remote broadcasts at commercial establishments.For example, In most cases, the station is given space to broadcast, electricity, a phone line. All this is consideration, and thus now falls under underwriting rules. Thus, the station can not tell people to come see them, or come on in (The FCC has also ruled in cases where the station is at a business with no relationship, inviting the people to come in to see the station, is a call to action to come into the business). Underwriting acknowledgements can only identify the underwriter. No call to action, no compartive or qualitative languange, no price or incentatives. Even "free" is price.
A public place, such as a park, the middle of a shopping Mall (with some restrictions), at festivals, country fairs, outside of sporting events, etc. are fine, as long as the nature of the broadcast does not have a commercial interest.

As for on air fundraising, non-commercial stations are only allowed to raise money for the station itself. Outside of PSA's, all on-air fundraising has to go to the station. Thus, radiothons or other fundraisers are not permitted. There is an exception: You can request a waiver from the FCC. To date, the FCC has only granted 5 waivers: the recent was for disaster relief in the wake of Katrina.

Some may think all of this is too restrictive. However, non-commercial stations do not pay regulatory fees, application fees, taxes, and get other benefits their commercial cousins do not.

Here are two links that may be helpful:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/nature.html This is a collection of FCC docuements, papers, texts, and notices involving years of FCC staff and case law.
http://www.gsblaw.com/resource/pub_result.asp?ID=1820437272006 This is a presentation made by attorney John Crigler at the recent Development Conference that will be quite enlightening in terms of what you can and can not say in underwriting.

 

[WestsideBulldog]

Some good points but .....Still I disagree you are pointing things out from a distance. It comes across as your second guessing that they do not know what they are doing or that they do not know non-comm rules and regs. I'm sure many in the non-comm biz has seen the DEI site. Anytime a non-comm is not NPR based it brings out the ney sayers. DEI is a HUGE NPR supporter. Sure there are rules ALL non-comms must follow but not all on the DEI site are FCC regs. NPR and PRI do not make the rules they simply follow the rules set forth by the FCC (how poor they are written or not). The rules are clear but to say a non-comm station must sound like a typical non-comm because CC or others will be listening is crazy. If they follow the non-comm regs and FCC guides for underwriting then no problem.
As to any kind of remotes I have not seen much in the way of FCC writings or guidlines saying what you can and can not do. Do you have a refrence? I have heard many non-comms do them at sporting events, fairs and festivals but not sure about businesses. I have read about the restrictions but never seen the rules in writing.
As of late ClassX has been getting better every day.

Ok, Let's take this one step at a time. I do not live in the Cincinatti metro. I visit there, due to relatives or business from time to time, so it is at a distance.
Seond, DEI is made up of many different stations. Large, Small, NPR members, non-members, community stations. They are a membership organization to help non-commercial stations fundraise, in both traditional "public radio methods" such as funddrives and underwriting, to non-traditional ways such as internet, long term gifts, foundations, etc. Thus, they are not supporters of NPR. Take a look at this page, which lists some information on FCC based guildelines for underwriting credit language at the national level, to keep conistant and legal content. http://www.deiworksite.org/index.asp?Type=B_LIST&SEC={29835A56-1B98-49D8-8A6B-16E934158206}

Third, there is nothing in my post or anything else to say that your station has to sound a certain way. The caution was that if your station in its on air copy sounds like a commercial station, meaning the underwriting copy, then it will gather attention. This is even more so if the annoucements are highly produced. The FCC has stated this in the links below, which carries all kinds of information to violations and other restrictions non-commercial stations have to live with compared to their commercial cousins. The problem is that either stations don't know the rules or they do, and try to stretch or get away with it, until caught. Many feel they have to do this to get the money. Sadly, all they have to do is educate the business owner on the power of underwriting on their station, and they don't have to use language that is illegal.

The FCC has cited stations and mentions in some of the links below that unless their is some overwhelming public interest aspect, non-commercial stations are limited in what they can do in terms of remote broadcasts at commercial establishments.For example, In most cases, the station is given space to broadcast, electricity, a phone line. All this is consideration, and thus now falls under underwriting rules. Thus, the station can not tell people to come see them, or come on in (The FCC has also ruled in cases where the station is at a business with no relationship, inviting the people to come in to see the station, is a call to action to come into the business). Underwriting acknowledgements can only identify the underwriter. No call to action, no compartive or qualitative languange, no price or incentatives. Even "free" is price.
A public place, such as a park, the middle of a shopping Mall (with some restrictions), at festivals, country fairs, outside of sporting events, etc. are fine, as long as the nature of the broadcast does not have a commercial interest.

As for on air fundraising, non-commercial stations are only allowed to raise money for the station itself. Outside of PSA's, all on-air fundraising has to go to the station. Thus, radiothons or other fundraisers are not permitted. There is an exception: You can request a waiver from the FCC. To date, the FCC has only granted 5 waivers: the recent was for disaster relief in the wake of Katrina.

Some may think all of this is too restrictive. However, non-commercial stations do not pay regulatory fees, application fees, taxes, and get other benefits their commercial cousins do not.

Here are two links that may be helpful:

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/nature.html This is a collection of FCC docuements, papers, texts, and notices involving years of FCC staff and case law.
http://www.gsblaw.com/resource/pub_result.asp?ID=1820437272006 This is a presentation made by attorney John Crigler at the recent Development Conference that will be quite enlightening in terms of what you can and can not say in underwriting.

EVERYTHING you state in the way of non-com rules are VERY well known and are being followed by ClassX. What makes you think they are not or do not follow non-comm rules? Again I'm not sure you understand that ClassX and its owner are VERYeducated when it comes to non-comm content. I'm not trying to be a butt head here but it seems that you were trying to be a teacher who looks down on students as if they are stupid. My guess now is you simply don't realize those over at ClassX know what they are doing.

DEI is OK but they want to keep non-comms from spreading their wings.

 

[radiomike]

EVERYTHING you state in the way of non-com rules are VERY well known and are being followed by ClassX. What makes you think they are not or do not follow non-comm rules? Again I'm not sure you understand that ClassX and its owner are VERYeducated when it comes to non-comm content. I'm not trying to be a butt head here but it seems that you were trying to be a teacher who looks down on students as if they are stupid. My guess now is you simply don't realize those over at ClassX know what they are doing.

DEI is OK but they want to keep non-comms from spreading their wings.

Hmm...Your final comment is very telling. DEI wants to keep non-comms from getting into legal trouble. In other words, It would seem your idea (and those of ClassX which you are defending) is that most non-commercial stations are doing it all worng, and thus your reasoning is the only right way? Take a look at the FCC links and take the Crigler quiz. These are NOT opinions, but are or based on FCC cases. There is nothing wrong with non-commercial stations succeeding. There are many, some doing better in terms of audience than commercial stations. However, an FCC fine or admonishment is not part of the success formula, for crossing the line. As seen by the FCC actions, many stations thought they "know what they are doing." The FCC disagreed. And as pointed out by someone else on this board, evidently the ClassX people obviously know the rules, but have not always chosen to follow them.

 

[PaulBWalkerJr]

I think those who speak negatively about this new station are those that are jealous or bitter they can't/won't be a part of it

 

[radiomike]

I think those who speak negatively about this new station are those that are jealous or bitter they can't/won't be a part of it

For the record, I have not spoken negatively about the station or its format, and neither has any poster here. Questions were asked about the station, and some information given, before being pounced on by Mr. Bulldog. It will be interesting should the station get criticism.

 

[WestsideBulldog]

EVERYTHING you state in the way of non-com rules are VERY well known and are being followed by ClassX. What makes you think they are not or do not follow non-comm rules? Again I'm not sure you understand that ClassX and its owner are VERYeducated when it comes to non-comm content. I'm not trying to be a butt head here but it seems that you were trying to be a teacher who looks down on students as if they are stupid. My guess now is you simply don't realize those over at ClassX know what they are doing.

DEI is OK but they want to keep non-comms from spreading their wings.

Hmm...Your final comment is very telling. DEI wants to keep non-comms from getting into legal trouble. In other words, It would seem your idea (and those of ClassX which you are defending) is that most non-commercial stations are doing it all worng, and thus your reasoning is the only right way? Take a look at the FCC links and take the Crigler quiz. These are NOT opinions, but are or based on FCC cases. There is nothing wrong with non-commercial stations succeeding. There are many, some doing better in terms of audience than commercial stations. However, an FCC fine or admonishment is not part of the success formula, for crossing the line. As seen by the FCC actions, many stations thought they "know what they are doing." The FCC disagreed. And as pointed out by someone else on this board, evidently the ClassX people obviously know the rules, but have not always chosen to follow them.

What a bunch of BS. DEI isin business to make money..plain and simple off of Non comms if not membership would be free. No one said others are doing it wrong or wanted to cross the line. My final comments were not telling or about bending rules but about simply keeping the status quo on the low end of the dial. THAT MEANING simply BORING!!! NOTHING about rules or regs being bent or broke. :

Simply put I don't think ClassX needs your "help". Its as if no one else has done this non-comm thing before I guess except Mike.

 

[WestsideBulldog]

I think those who speak negatively about this new station are those that are jealous or bitter they can't/won't be a part of it

For the record, I have not spoken negatively about the station or its format, and neither has any poster here. Questions were asked about the station, and some information given, before being pounced on by Mr. Bulldog. It will be interesting should the station get criticism.

BS. Mike posted and tried to point out things not on the FCC web site which has been down and not accurate for over a week!

 

[WestsideBulldog]

I think those who speak negatively about this new station are those that are jealous or bitter they can't/won't be a part of it

For the record, I have not spoken negatively about the station or its format, and neither has any poster here. Questions were asked about the station, and some information given, before being pounced on by Mr. Bulldog. It will be interesting should the station get criticism.

BS. Mike posted and tried to point out things not on the FCC web site which has been down and not accurate for over a week!

BS. Mike posted and tried to point out things not on the FCC web site which has been down and not accurate for over a week! Mike was attacking the station and acting as if they do not know what they are doing. No one pounced on anyone just questioned his motive for trying to slam a new station for paper work not showing up in a governments system yet.

The station has received positive criticism from many people in the form of direct email and phone calls if you have listened to the station either on line or over the air. None of it was of technical nature except for Mike in here. Thats telling enough.

 

[WestsideBulldog]

I think those who speak negatively about this new station are those that are jealous or bitter they can't/won't be a part of it

AMEN!!

 

[radiomike]

What a bunch of BS. DEI isin business to make money..plain and simple off of Non comms if not membership would be free. No one said others are doing it wrong or wanted to cross the line. My final comments were not telling or about bending rules but about simply keeping the status quo on the low end of the dial. THAT MEANING simply BORING!!! NOTHING about rules or regs being bent or broke. :

Simply put I don't think ClassX needs your "help". Its as if no one else has done this non-comm thing before I guess except Mike.

Guess what? The informaition I gave you was free of charge from DEI, the FCC, and a respected FCC attorney that specializes in noncommercial broadcast matters. And DEI is not in "business" to make money. They are in business to help stations make money. My comments did not imply you should keep the status quo or do boring programming, as you put it. I simply provided information so that you, as well as other readers that operate non-commercial stations, keep their station's funded and legal. Read the citations and fines on the FCC website, and see how easy it is to run astray, no matter how good your intentions. And as with any advice, and to restate, it is not mine, but those of the FCC and others, it can be ignored. Finally, I don't profess and have not stated that I know everything about "this non-comm thing". However, having been in the non-com. and commercial radio & TVworld at various stations and posistions for over 30 years, I have seen my share of successes and failures, including arrogance to ignore even small suggestions worth looking at. Once again, the intent is to offer help, not to hinder. Perhaps thou protest too much.

 

[radiomike]

[BS. Mike posted and tried to point out things not on the FCC web site which has been down and not accurate for over a week! Mike was attacking the station and acting as if they do not know what they are doing. No one pounced on anyone just questioned his motive for trying to slam a new station for paper work not showing up in a governments system yet.

The station has received positive criticism from many people in the form of direct email and phone calls if you have listened to the station either on line or over the air. None of it was of technical nature except for Mike in here. Thats telling enough.

The FCC website has not been down nor inaccurate. The links I posted are accurate and up to date. However, I posed a question. Techie 2 posted part of the CP. The CDBS does not contain the application nor does it show up in the daily reports, which are seperate. And the FCC said the database was up to date, just the online interface was messed up. Instead of acting paranoid that someone is attacking the stations, it could have been settled easily by posting a file # of the application for license and STA. I know, too simple. And no one slammed the station. A question was asked, you pounced, including asking why anyone would want to even ask it, heaven forbid. No one has said that the station is doing anything wrong, or criticized the format. Instead, advice was given by at least two people to keep it going legally, both technical and in terms of underwriting language. However, you can ignore it, which is straight from the FCC. Sorry, but I am tired of the tirades. Best on your endeavor, which is what I was trying to do in the first place.

 

[Jeff_Davis]

Mike, The FCC's CDBS has been down for two weeks. www.insideradio.com

 

[radiomike]

Mike, The FCC's CDBS has been down for two weeks. www.insideradio.com

Not quite correct. On and off for two weeks the article said. However, The database has been updated. You can't get to the CDBS online through the web. However, you can download the data and use their application, which a majority of the engineers do.

 

[WestsideBulldog]

What a bunch of BS. DEI isin business to make money..plain and simple off of Non comms if not membership would be free. No one said others are doing it wrong or wanted to cross the line. My final comments were not telling or about bending rules but about simply keeping the status quo on the low end of the dial. THAT MEANING simply BORING!!! NOTHING about rules or regs being bent or broke. :

Simply put I don't think ClassX needs your "help". Its as if no one else has done this non-comm thing before I guess except Mike.

Guess what? The informaition I gave you was free of charge from DEI, the FCC, and a respected FCC attorney that specializes in noncommercial broadcast matters. And DEI is not in "business" to make money. They are in business to help stations make money. My comments did not imply you should keep the status quo or do boring programming, as you put it. I simply provided information so that you, as well as other readers that operate non-commercial stations, keep their station's funded and legal. Read the citations and fines on the FCC website, and see how easy it is to run astray, no matter how good your intentions. And as with any advice, and to restate, it is not mine, but those of the FCC and others, it can be ignored. Finally, I don't profess and have not stated that I know everything about "this non-comm thing". However, having been in the non-com. and commercial radio & TVworld at various stations and posistions for over 30 years, I have seen my share of successes and failures, including arrogance to ignore even small suggestions worth looking at. Once again, the intent is to offer help, not to hinder. Perhaps thou protest too much.

Blah Blah Blah..... :

 

[WestsideBulldog]

[BS. Mike posted and tried to point out things not on the FCC web site which has been down and not accurate for over a week! Mike was attacking the station and acting as if they do not know what they are doing. No one pounced on anyone just questioned his motive for trying to slam a new station for paper work not showing up in a governments system yet.

The station has received positive criticism from many people in the form of direct email and phone calls if you have listened to the station either on line or over the air. None of it was of technical nature except for Mike in here. Thats telling enough.

The FCC website has not been down nor inaccurate. The links I posted are accurate and up to date. However, I posed a question. Techie 2 posted part of the CP. The CDBS does not contain the application nor does it show up in the daily reports, which are seperate. And the FCC said the database was up to date, just the online interface was messed up. Instead of acting paranoid that someone is attacking the stations, it could have been settled easily by posting a file # of the application for license and STA. I know, too simple. And no one slammed the station. A question was asked, you pounced, including asking why anyone would want to even ask it, heaven forbid. No one has said that the station is doing anything wrong, or criticized the format. Instead, advice was given by at least two people to keep it going legally, both technical and in terms of underwriting language. However, you can ignore it, which is straight from the FCC. Sorry, but I am tired of the tirades. Best on your endeavor, which is what I was trying to do in the first place.

NO MIKE! YOUR SIMPLY WRONG TO POSE SUCH A QUSTION IN THIS THREAD.....YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!
I don't give a rats behind how many years you say you have, you sure didn't think that maybe this thread was not the place to post such nonsense about paper work not showing up on a web site not working correctly. No on is paranoid just pointing to the fact you poo pooed someones party. You also belittled the station by telling them things the non comm basic 101 does and don'ts. Trust me they will ignor it. This was not the tread for that. THE THREAD WAS TO TALK ABOUT THE STATION ON AIR PERFORFANCE to date.

 

[radiomike]

Hmmm. The request for program test authority and the license to cover were filed TODAY with the FCC. The application is actually signed today, 8/18/06. Interesting that the certifcations were mailed on 8/10/06, according to the handwritten note on the letter.

So, it would seem my original query and the followup by Techie2 sure was valid, which was on the 9th. This in light that the station went on the air on August 5th, but did not "mail" things until the 10th, did not file the proper application until the 18th, and still has not been granted PTA by the Commission.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...145124&Service=FM&Form_id=1&Facility_id=93070

 

[WestsideBulldog]

Hmmm. The request for program test authority and the license to cover were filed TODAY with the FCC. The application is actually signed today, 8/18/06. Interesting that the certifcations were mailed on 8/10/06, according to the handwritten note on the letter.

So, it would seem my original query and the followup by Techie2 sure was valid, which was on the 9th. This in light that the station went on the air on August 5th, but did not "mail" things until the 10th, did not file the proper application until the 18th, and still has not been granted PTA by the Commission.

http://svartifoss2.fcc.gov/cgi-bin/...145124&Service=FM&Form_id=1&Facility_id=93070

Way to go Mike! You won the CSI award. But wait....Read thead the cp. Then you will see the facts of the matter. Again this is not the proper thread for this.

 

[radiomike]

Way to go Mike! You won the CSI award. But wait....Read thead the cp. Then you will see the facts of the matter. Again this is not the proper thread for this.

Actually, the thread was about Class X, and so it was an apropriate place to pose the question. And the CP is clear. You have to file the license to cover and request PTA, with all the required paperwork. That is in the CP. Check out the post on the Cleveland Board concerning WJCU, which just completed construction of a directional antenna, and filed their paperwork. The are awaiting FCC approval for Program Test Authority to go with the power increase. Their CP states the exact same thing as Class X, which Techie2 posted. Again, best on your new station.

 

[WestsideBulldog]

Way to go Mike! You won the CSI award. But wait....Read thead the cp. Then you will see the facts of the matter. Again this is not the proper thread for this.

Actually, the thread was about Class X, and so it was an apropriate place to pose the question. And the CP is clear. You have to file the license to cover and request PTA, with all the required paperwork. That is in the CP. Check out the post on the Cleveland Board concerning WJCU, which just completed construction of a directional antenna, and filed their paperwork. The are awaiting FCC approval for Program Test Authority to go with the power increase. Their CP states the exact same thing as Class X, which Techie2 posted. Again, best on your new station.

It's my station now?? Cool!

No mike the thread was about how good the signal and format was. NOT about paperwork filed on your time frame. Your "help" was not asked for by anyone. Nice to know through that there are "Big Brothers" out there looking over the shoulders of the basic listeners to make sure all paper work is in properly. So have you even listened to the station or live in the coverage area? My guess is you have not just looking to somehow discourage others from listening to the new station. IN addition it seems as if you have it out for the station for some reason. By the way have you picked up the phone to call WMWX to ask?

 

[radiomike]

It's my station now?? Cool!
No mike the thread was about how good the signal and format was. NOT about paperwork filed on your time frame. Your "help" was not asked for by anyone. Nice to know through that there are "Big Brothers" out there looking over the shoulders of the basic listeners to make sure all paper work is in properly. So have you even listened to the station or live in the coverage area? My guess is you have not just looking to somehow discourage others from listening to the new station. IN addition it seems as if you have it out for the station for some reason. By the way have you picked up the phone to call WMWX to ask?

Considering you staunch defense of the station, it would seem that you are involved in the station or have more than a passing listener interest. It that is not the case, my apologies from drawing that conclusion.

I have listened to the station on line, and I was driving thru the area and heard the on air signal. The coverage area matched the predicted coverage on the route I was taking. I already have stated I do not live in the coverage area. The format is good, and is like some of the Jack or XM/Sirius channels, automated and Voice Tracked, at least the portions I heard. The music mix is likely not what is heard on the main broadcast channels, and so it will likely attract listeners. I have not heard any live jocks, except for a cut-in from a county fair.

As for implying that I am "looking to somehow discourage others from listening to the new station" is both innacurate and just plain ridiculous. At no time did I imply or discourage listenership, nor do "I have it out for the station." In fact, by posing the question, and offering correct legal and technical advice, I hope the station will flourish. That is and always has been the intent. If I was out for the station, I would be doing more than posting here.

The other thing to keep in mind, is that these boards are primarily read and posted by those in the industry or related to it. It is not a general blog or board for the public and in general, the "basic listener" does not read it nor post to it, as a rule. Thus, any posts on formats, signal quality, tech issues, station rumors and gossip are par for the course, including legitimate questions on the station's operation, such as CPs, studio location or improvements, and the like are par for the course, on any thread. Threads also change subjects inside of them, as well. All one has to do is look at this board and its close cousin that split off, and you see that this is the case. So, it is logical that one would ask questions regarding ownership, licensing, etc.

Have I called the station? Yes, I have, and left a comment on the programming and that I liked the format. They could do without some of the 80's hair bands, but that is my preference.