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News Talk on FM
- Thread starter cbsrocks
- Start date
I don't know, I thought we did a pretty good job answering your question in this thread...
You can talk in generalities all you want... if I design a rocket correctly I can fly to the moon.
I said it before, I will say it again, with the possible exception of Mark Larsen, there is no local talent available that would move the meter, and all of the useful syndication products are taken in the market. If a second news-talk were viable in this market, 820 would not have a morning show working for the sake of getting their act together and be running gold shows mid-days.
What exactly would constitute doing it correctly?
I said it before, I will say it again, with the possible exception of Mark Larsen, there is no local talent available that would move the meter, and all of the useful syndication products are taken in the market. If a second news-talk were viable in this market, 820 would not have a morning show working for the sake of getting their act together and be running gold shows mid-days.
What exactly would constitute doing it correctly?
I love when they say, "If done right..." This is not going to happen here. The Free FM experiment was a bust and Tampa was not even in CBS's sites for the format. The Talk format requires $$$ and would require huge numbers for it to be profitable. Not in this economy, boys.
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
cbsrocks said:
Who's boring, buster!
We are all adults and should be able to comprehend word meanings. However, for those who do not understand the correct meaning of "If done correctly", I'll explain and further expound upon the definition. The term "If done correctly", or any variation thereof, simply means, for this illustration relating specifically to Tampa Bay FM Talk Radio, you cannot throw just anything on the air and expect it to succeed. It's that simple.
To further expound, there have been numerous music FM stations that have failed due to poor planning and lack of correct implementation. News-Talk is no different. In fact, news-talk takes even greater planning than music radio. Hence, whether it be radio, buiding rockets, selling shoes or making doughnuts, in order for any of the preceding undertakings to succeed, each and every one of them has to be carefully planned and implemented correctly. That can be said of anything in life, whether professional or personal. Careful planning and correct implementation is not isolated solely to the idea of placing a news-talk format on an underperforming FM station. The idea applies to everything! It is when you have no plan or a plan that has not been carefully and correctly implemented that you find failure. Other factors also contribute to failure, but lack of a sound, well thought out, well articulated, and correctly implemented plan is a recipe for guaranteed failure. Hence, the term "If done correctly".
Secondly, although I appreciate all the comments and criticisms, I am not going to debate the issue any further. Since someone had started this new thread on this subject, I commented on the idea since it appeard there was a renewed interest in the subject.
Thirdly, I have said it before. I will say it one final time... News-Talk on FM in Tampa Bay will work, and it is coming to Tampa Bay whether you and I agree, disagree, like it, don't it, it doesn't matter. Within 24-months (most likely much sooner), we will each wake up one morning to find that one of the local FM stations has made the big switch to news-talk.
Now, you can continue to argue amongst yourselves and come up with every possible reason it won't happen, shouldn't happen or is impossible to happen, but that will not change the fact that News-Talk on FM [is] coming to Tampa Bay.
In conclusion, I made my case, and stated my professional opinion. Therefore there will be no further comments from me on this issue. Carry on...
To further expound, there have been numerous music FM stations that have failed due to poor planning and lack of correct implementation. News-Talk is no different. In fact, news-talk takes even greater planning than music radio. Hence, whether it be radio, buiding rockets, selling shoes or making doughnuts, in order for any of the preceding undertakings to succeed, each and every one of them has to be carefully planned and implemented correctly. That can be said of anything in life, whether professional or personal. Careful planning and correct implementation is not isolated solely to the idea of placing a news-talk format on an underperforming FM station. The idea applies to everything! It is when you have no plan or a plan that has not been carefully and correctly implemented that you find failure. Other factors also contribute to failure, but lack of a sound, well thought out, well articulated, and correctly implemented plan is a recipe for guaranteed failure. Hence, the term "If done correctly".
Secondly, although I appreciate all the comments and criticisms, I am not going to debate the issue any further. Since someone had started this new thread on this subject, I commented on the idea since it appeard there was a renewed interest in the subject.
Thirdly, I have said it before. I will say it one final time... News-Talk on FM in Tampa Bay will work, and it is coming to Tampa Bay whether you and I agree, disagree, like it, don't it, it doesn't matter. Within 24-months (most likely much sooner), we will each wake up one morning to find that one of the local FM stations has made the big switch to news-talk.
Now, you can continue to argue amongst yourselves and come up with every possible reason it won't happen, shouldn't happen or is impossible to happen, but that will not change the fact that News-Talk on FM [is] coming to Tampa Bay.
In conclusion, I made my case, and stated my professional opinion. Therefore there will be no further comments from me on this issue. Carry on...
Parttimer said:
Thank you for asking. That at least shows you have an open mind toward the subject, and I would be very happy to explain and answer your question in detail. However, in order for me to do that, I would have to essentially give you the overal business plan. And since I'm sure there are decision makers from the major radio groups who have a vested interest in Tampa Bay radio who are also reading these threads, I don't make it a practice to "give away the store" without being rightfully compensated for any information I "give away".
I wish I could be more open with you about the specifics, but I am not at liberty to go into any details, even on a small scale. However, I'm sure you already have your own idea of what will succeed in the market...
M
MsMusicRadio
Guest
I could see WFLA simulcast on 97.9 or 100.7 within 24 months. COX would need all new talent and programming and I am not sure which station they would consider weak enough to flip since 101.5 and 107.3 seems to be doing much better on PPM. Thoughts or is this topic done? Would CBS put news/talk on 98.7 which has trouble reaching Eastern Hillsborough?
MsMusicRadio said:
It could be either one.
My initial bet would be 100.7 so Clear Channel could use the same identifier for Tallahassee's 100.7 WFLA-FM. Just as WFLF in the Orlando market identifies itself on air as 540WFLA. If they are so inclined to keep the WFLA brand all over the state. Especially in 2 of the more influential markets in the state.
On the other hand, 97.9 already has the HD-2 simul of the 970 signal and as such gives the "North of the Bay" coverage they need - and don't have - with the pattern of the 970 signal, which is why it’s there in the first place. So that change would be easy, too. And would make sense as well.
It may be an internal "dilemma" they are facing behind closed doors.
It's why people in those positions make the Big Bucks. Once the decision is made, their careers rest on that choice.
I personally would like the 100.7 signal. But it will probably be the 97.9.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!
Just a quick note on 98.7... All you have to do is run it in mono sum and clip the crap out of it. The picket fencing on the fringe will stop. We did this in the 70's when music was migrating to FM and smaller markets only had Class A's available. Talk listeners won't care if it's mono, because it still sounds better anyway and it's more hip. 98.7 is a Class C-2, so that dog will hunt. Caveat: I have a client who was trying to place some spots on Pseudo Jazz 98.7 recently and couldn't get on. The station was sold out. So, if you're Don Howe or Dan Mason and your cheap to run, C-2 FM was sold out, how eager would you be to spend bazillions flipping to talk? Don't touch THAT knob!
Given the hideous, 12.3% unemployed, way worse than a recession market we are in, the operator who could most easily do it is Cox. They are already stepping in it, with Bubba already on mornings and Cowhead on PM drive. A solid, 25-54 male base is already there. But just wedging in Neal Boortz & Clark Howard between Bubba & Cowhead would be awful.
As far as CC, remember what Mr. Tillery keeps pointing out: Return on investment. What is your ROI going to be in a market where the radio advertising pie has plunged from $180 million to just over $100 million? And the cost per point has dropped from $175 per point to $115?
A simulcast of 970 and 100.7 or any other CC FM is not possible. And if they went FM talk, they could kill the golden goose, 970.
I agree with Mr.Tillery. FM Talk in Tampa Bay will happen, but I don't believe it will be this year, unless some operator gets really ballsy. The big guys are watching pennies, not just dollars. SO, I'm to go back down the hall and cut some pizza spots and imaging liners. You know, cash flow.... ;o)
Given the hideous, 12.3% unemployed, way worse than a recession market we are in, the operator who could most easily do it is Cox. They are already stepping in it, with Bubba already on mornings and Cowhead on PM drive. A solid, 25-54 male base is already there. But just wedging in Neal Boortz & Clark Howard between Bubba & Cowhead would be awful.
As far as CC, remember what Mr. Tillery keeps pointing out: Return on investment. What is your ROI going to be in a market where the radio advertising pie has plunged from $180 million to just over $100 million? And the cost per point has dropped from $175 per point to $115?
A simulcast of 970 and 100.7 or any other CC FM is not possible. And if they went FM talk, they could kill the golden goose, 970.
I agree with Mr.Tillery. FM Talk in Tampa Bay will happen, but I don't believe it will be this year, unless some operator gets really ballsy. The big guys are watching pennies, not just dollars. SO, I'm to go back down the hall and cut some pizza spots and imaging liners. You know, cash flow.... ;o)
It was understood, as you are using the conventional meaning. I don't work in radio but I do negotiate contracts and I do a lot of number crunching for possible projects and investment opportunities. I do not see anybody doing it in this market, especially in this economy. The window of opportunity closed three years ago. Could it happen in a decade? Sure, but what is the point of discussing that? For all we know, the war on terrorism could end and we could see a new dance craze in the country. A small signal could adjust quickly (inexpensively) to respond to the new wave of fill in the blank. Right now, you could place an Urban/AC/Old School and do very well in this town. 98.7 is not hurting by having added some Urban/AC.
jmtillery said:
Like Larsen said, you already have 102.5 doing talk during drive times. You could put in mid days a show like Dr. Dru Penske or something similar to that. FM is full of talk now. There is little to no music on any FM's morning shows these days, or it is used as filler. I would call most of those FM morning shows talk radio. Maybe not the constant political talk like on AM talk stations, but entertaining just the same. I remember when Dr. Ruth Westheimer did a radio show. Dr. Dru has assumed that mantle.
A few examples of talk flips that have failed on FM:
106.5 in Jacksonville (1990's) -- eventually went back to music
WTDA 103.9 in Columbus OH (2009) -- couldn't get first tier shows, ratings flop, back to music
101.5 in Denver -- third tier lineup dominated by TRN -- 0.2 in December '09
And of course there's "Free FM"...
The key seems to be getting the Rush-Hannity-Beck trio to move over, or any one of the three. If you can do that you have a chance. If you have to stock up on TRN, Salem or other product, forget it.
106.5 in Jacksonville (1990's) -- eventually went back to music
WTDA 103.9 in Columbus OH (2009) -- couldn't get first tier shows, ratings flop, back to music
101.5 in Denver -- third tier lineup dominated by TRN -- 0.2 in December '09
And of course there's "Free FM"...
The key seems to be getting the Rush-Hannity-Beck trio to move over, or any one of the three. If you can do that you have a chance. If you have to stock up on TRN, Salem or other product, forget it.
DToTheJ said:
New York is a different market. WFAN is a station that has a much better signal than the short-spaced FM's.
Free FM was not a good example of why talk on FM will fail, it was text book on how to fail with any talk station.
WFAN is getting to the point, if it is not already, where it is a brand. It is on an HD2 here (Tampa) and in several other markets. NY sports geeks are complainers, though, and it is otherwise boring. It is definately NOT the quality of other talk - political, computer, news, etc. - type shows.
BTW, when we are discussing the various possiblities of FM talk in the Bay Area, I for one, wouldn't touch 970 at this point and not go for a 100% permanant simulcast. It still leaves a virtual 7th, or extra button, for an FM preset.
Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta
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