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News/talk ratings skyrocketing due to high gas prices

A story I saw today said China ending lockdowns means things are about to get a lot worse.


Though when I looked for a link to the article I found something more recent which is encouraging in the short term.

 
Aside from the fact I don't like new cars and that's just how they look (never mind complicated features) I will be going on one of those trips next week. I filled up with gas and may have enough gas not to need more. I have no interest in delays caused by charging.

I hope to have details of my trip to report here.
Definitely keep us posted!
 
Google is your friend. Use it to find postings by hundreds of EV people who have tried to take trips over 200 miles and spent considerable time waiting to recharge - or get to a recharge station and find their equipment does not work with your EV. BTW, just saw an article this morning that President Biden is pushing standardization of charging equipment to address this problem.
Pres. Biden, as he has tended to be during his presidency, is a day late and a dollar short. The major American, Japanese, and European car makers have long ago agreed on a standard known as CCS. There is but one exception... Tesla.

In addition, I would refer you to any one of a dozen or so articles on Youtube by Scotty Kilmer on EV's. He is a lifetime auto mechanic who is not fond of EV's for a variety of important reasons. Whether you agree with him or not you will learn a lot about this immature technology.
I'm familiar with Scotty Kilmer. I do not think Mr. Kilmer's videos are accurate or insightful. Scaremongering is an adjective I might use.

Yes, the Prius and the Leaf are reliable....also very small. GM's Volt was also cramped for space although it was a gas to drive. But how many petro cars do you know what would need the equivalent of a complete engine overhaul/replacement at 150,000 miles?
My perception is a lot of gas cars never make it to 150k. The only high mileage car I ever had had a serious engine failure around 125k miles due to losing oil pressure.
And the fact that the Prius warranty is "only" 150k miles does not mean anything will happen at 150k miles.

I believe that incentive is actually a tax credit. Useful for those who pay higher taxes but not the rest of us.
Correct. I'm a working individual, so it would apply for me.

Recharging overnight (off-peak) is exactly what the utilities need you to do. Grid capacity during on-peak hours is already at virtual capacity in many areas of the country. And with normal charging time you could not use your EV during these hours.
The grid is fine, in my part of the country. I understand California, Texas and chunks of Canada have got some work to do.

You can use your car at any time. Just unplug it first. It's not like you're forbidden from unplugging it until it reaches a certain charge threshold, if you need a late night Taco Bell run.

My Volt owning neighbor paid around $2,500 for his upgraded home charging station.
Wow. Sounds like a ripoff to me, but I also live in a relatively cheap part of the US.
Owning one car used entirely for commuting and short runs to the super market is expensive no matter how you look at it. Not sure where you got your commute mile number but it is actually 40-41 miles per day on average in the USA.
Almost all personal cars are used primarily for commuting and other short trips. Further more, two thirds of households that have a car also have at least two cars so it isn't outrageous to have a car that is very efficient at one thing and not suitable for hauling the kids or whatever.

Forget about towing your travel trailer or boat.
Forget about larger families or taking your soccer team to the game.
Forget about making the rated battery miles in very cold or very warm climates.
Look, I agree with you. EVs aren't for everyone. But the current generation of EVs are appropriate for lots of people. I will probably have an EV for my next car, because I don't need to tow a boat or haul 4 kids in the back.

And imagine the smile on everyone's face when you pull into a charging station and it's full. You wait for them then wait for you.
The intent is to use a public charging station only rarely. If I had an EV, it probably would have been charged at a public charger twice so far this calendar year.
 
Which, of course, is a very common use case. The average car is driven 37 miles a day, so even a 100 mile vehicle range like the first generation Nissan Leaf would satisfy well over half of people.
Residential electricity rates in the US average about 12 cents per kWh, so recharging an EV with a fairly typical 75kWh battery at home will run you $9. It isn't the case in my state, but I understand some states (Illinois, Georgia) have a lower cost electricity late at night, which would tip the economics further.


A "fast" charging station in the home, known as a level 2 charger, is just a 240V dryer outlet. I can't imagine running one to the garage would cost "a few grand". Level 3 chargers are not practical for the home because the electric grid to homes is not sufficient.
While you make some great points, the rate for electricity could also go up -- there's no guarantee it's going to stay the same in any given territory. Electrical generating capacity is not increasing in the US, as the coal plants are all eventually closing, and not enough other plants are being built. They're not forecasting rolling blackouts this summer because we've got electricity to spare.

Pages 4 and 5 of the NERC report for 2022 are pretty informative.:


Also, $9 a day is almost as much money -- if not more than the amount of money -- which many people spend every day in gasoline. If the average car is driven 37 miles a day, and the average compact car gets 25 mpg, and gas is $5 a gallon, you're talking around $7 in gas a day vs. $9 in electricity a day.

And a lot of people already own their gas vehicles free and clear. Saving money on gas with an EV is a great idea, but if you have to purchase a new vehicle -- with the monthly payments -- to "save" money, it's throwing good money after bad.

As for your last point on the charger installation, any installation performed on a house's electrical system isn't going to be cheap, and it's not going to get cheaper, either.

Obviously, much has to change, and the economics of EV's has to change, for more people to be able to afford to get an EV.

I still think they're the future. I know at least one person who has an EV (a Tesla), and he loves it, and he takes a fairly long commute (probably 25 miles each way). But he's probably in the top 10 percentile in income, and I"m not sure if he uses the EV for daily commuting or just local shopping trips and the like.
 
landtuna said:

My Volt owning neighbor paid around $2,500 for his upgraded home charging station.
Wow. Sounds like a ripoff to me, but I also live in a relatively cheap part of the US.
I checked with my electrical contractor who is also a friend. He says the "kit" is around $850 to $1000 depending on whether it is an indoor or outdoor mount. Then there is mounting, wiring to the master breaker, adding a trip fuse, etc. He says that around $2250 to $2500 sounds right if the cable runs are relatively short.

Mr. Tuna's estimate is in the ballpark.
 
While you make some great points, the rate for electricity could also go up -- there's no guarantee it's going to stay the same in any given territory.
Sure - but the price of gasoline is obviously volatile. The price of electricity, at least in my state, is regulated, so it can't see-saw in the way gasoline can.

Electrical generating capacity is not increasing in the US, as the coal plants are all eventually closing, and not enough other plants are being built. They're not forecasting rolling blackouts this summer because we've got electricity to spare.
That's fair. I assume someone at the power utilities is paying attention to this trend. But maybe not.

Also, $9 a day is almost as much money -- if not more than the amount of money -- which many people spend every day in gasoline. If the average car is driven 37 miles a day, and the average compact car gets 25 mpg, and gas is $5 a gallon, you're talking around $7 in gas a day vs. $9 in electricity a day.
That's $9 per complete charge, not per day. $9 of electricity should last the average American in an average EV about a week.

And a lot of people already own their gas vehicles free and clear. Saving money on gas with an EV is a great idea, but if you have to purchase a new vehicle -- with the monthly payments -- to "save" money, it's throwing good money after bad.
Agree. You rarely "save" money by buying a more efficient thing. You only save money if you were going to buy that thing anyway, and choose the more efficient one.

As for your last point on the charger installation, any installation performed on a house's electrical system isn't going to be cheap, and it's not going to get cheaper, either.
Fortunately, installing an electric outlet is something that can be done DIY.
 
This video dives into the topic a little bit. Naturally, the title is a bit misleading, but the points in the video itself is well researched.
 
My perception is a lot of gas cars never make it to 150k. The only high mileage car I ever had had a serious engine failure around 125k miles due to losing oil pressure.
If the average car on the American roads is 11 years old, a statistic cited often in a radio context (and remember when this thread was about radio?), reality would seem to clash with your extremely anecdotal evidence. I'll counter your experience with my last two cars, which have made it to 193,000 and 218,000 miles respectively. In fact, the latter car was still running OK but would have needed extensive work to pass Vermont's tough annual inspection process, so I needed to trade it in and buy another car. In Connecticut, where only emissions are tested every two years, I'd still be driving that old car, as its problems were not emissions-related.
 
^^^^^^ I have to agree, as I have a friend who owns a car repair shop and he states that modern cars can easily last up to 250K or more. My 1989 vehicle has 189K and still runs well.
 
In addition, I would refer you to any one of a dozen or so articles on Youtube by Scotty Kilmer on EV's. He is a lifetime auto mechanic who is not fond of EV's for a variety of important reasons. Whether you agree with him or not you will learn a lot about this immature technology.
A cynic may suggest that mechanics like current conventional vehicles because they frequently go wrong and require detailed and arcane diagnostic and repair knowledge possessed only by mechanics. I'm sure computer repairers loved the unreliable PC machines of the 1990s over today's turn-it-on, plug-and-play devices and tablets.

Modern EVs have far more in common with electrical appliances than with dirty old cars. Ownership models are also likely to change - either something like current vehicle leasing, or a subscription model where the driver pays a fee to have the right to drive the car, and maintenance/batteries etc are the responsibility of the company. The business model of the old guy in the oily garage who charges you $700 to replace and realign your flange pipe matrix whatchamacallit is going to be in trouble.
 
The business model of the old guy in the oily garage who charges you $700 to replace and realign your flange pipe matrix whatchamacallit is going to be in trouble.
And once the "auto-pilot" gets perfected body shops and tow truck companies will begin losing business.
 
And once the "auto-pilot" gets perfected body shops and tow truck companies will begin losing business.
Classic rock stations are going to be taking a big hit. They're all I ever hear while waiting at the shop for my car or riding shotgun with the tow truck driver after it breaks down on the road.
 
^^^^^^ I have to agree, as I have a friend who owns a car repair shop and he states that modern cars can easily last up to 250K or more. My 1989 vehicle has 189K and still runs well.
My 1997 Mercury is close to that. No real problems. I've seen some cars I was considering but they were always sold before I got to them.
 
Classic rock stations are going to be taking a big hit. They're all I ever hear while waiting at the shop for my car or riding shotgun with the tow truck driver after it breaks down on the road.
At my garage it's the local full-service oldies station which has commercials for all the local businesses, probably including that one.
 
I sometimes find funny the level of passion coming from those who are opposed to EVs. For some reason it seems that those who are opposed to EVs tend to be really vocal about it, and some of the crap I've seen posted and shared on social media quoting so-called facts and statistics, illustrating why EVs are the spawn of Satan himself in their opinions, are laughable. Personally, I wouldn't yet own one as I think there are still some things to be worked out, and because I sometimes travel longer distances. I wouldn't care to plan my trips around the locations of charging stations and I don't want to have to spend time wasting time while the vehicle charges along the way. That said, a number of co-workers have them and like them. They really only commute to/from work, they charge them at home and they're fine for their commute and shopping, running errands, etc. and they can also recharge at work if necessary.

To me, EV's are just one more transportation option like scooters, motorcyles, Smart Cars, large-scale SUVs, exclusively using public transportation, etc. Some of these solutions may be great for some depending on their circumstances, but may not be the best option for others. Everyone's situation is a bit different; to each their own.
 
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Pres. Biden, as he has tended to be during his presidency, is a day late and a dollar short. The major American, Japanese, and European car makers have long ago agreed on a standard known as CCS. There is but one exception... Tesla. [\quote]
The "standard" is not near as simple as that. There are many explanations of the different standards available online. Here is one.

My post regarding the president's action was not intended as a political statement. Please keep this conversation apolitical.
I'm familiar with Scotty Kilmer. I do not think Mr. Kilmer's videos are accurate or insightful. Scaremongering is an adjective I might use. [\quote]
You are obviously entitled to your opinion. I have found him to be very informed and fair in his posts. His large following seems to indicate many others do as well. And, Kilmer is but one such critic. There are many, many others.
My perception is a lot of gas cars never make it to 150k. [\quote]
14,000 miles per year (latest FHA average annual mileage) times 11 years (average length of time a car is kept) = 154,000 miles. So if you accept these government numbers there are a ton of cars on the road in excess of 150,000 miles. Of course this also depends on how owners do maintenance and does not count those killed by collision.
And the fact that the Prius warranty is "only" 150k miles does not mean anything will happen at 150k miles. [\quote]
No, but it does mean that you pay the very big bucks to replace the battery if it craps out or wears out. And according to many recent consumer polls there is a noticeable decline in battery efficiency as it ages so maximum mileage can be expected to decline as it ages.
The grid is fine, in my part of the country. I understand California, Texas and chunks of Canada have got some work to do. [\quote]
"The grid" is tightly interconnected so a major failure in one segment can be expected to affect a larger area than just your little piece of heaven. Texas recently found out what happens when you isolate your "local" grid. OTOH, interconnectivity means you share the load with non-local sources. That means you also share the risks.
You can use your car at any time. Just unplug it first. It's not like you're forbidden from unplugging it until it reaches a certain charge threshold, if you need a late night Taco Bell run. [\quote]
True, but what if you are not going to Taco Bell? What if you have to be gone several hours? What if you have to drive a long distance in that time? Each hour unplugged takes away from battery charging so you may not have enough to do tomorrow's round trip? I admit this is probably a long shot and unlikely to create anything more than an inconvenience but it is a valid consideration.
Wow. Sounds like a ripoff to me, but I also live in a relatively cheap part of the US. [\quote]
It all depends on local building codes and the installer's hourly rate (and the complexity of your charging location).
Almost all personal cars are used primarily for commuting and other short trips. Further more, two thirds of households that have a car also have at least two cars so it isn't outrageous to have a car that is very efficient at one thing and not suitable for hauling the kids or whatever. [\quote]
The whole idea behind EV's is to lessen fuel cost, not increase or stay even. Unfortunately, EV's come with a lot of inconvenient baggage compared to a similar petro car. Experts say even the zero emissions claims are grossly misleading if you measure the entire life cycle of the vehicle (build to scrap). People in Sun City drive around in golf carts and that works out very well unless they need to go outside their immediate neighborhood. EV's give them more range but at a very large cost.
Look, I agree with you. EVs aren't for everyone. But the current generation of EVs are appropriate for lots of people. I will probably have an EV for my next car, because I don't need to tow a boat or haul 4 kids in the back. [\quote]
And that's what I am saying as well. If an EV fits your life style and you're OK with the limitations then go get one. I was just trying to illustrate that there are drawbacks that should be well understood before you write that big check.
 
A cynic may suggest that mechanics like current conventional vehicles because they frequently go wrong and require detailed and arcane diagnostic and repair knowledge possessed only by mechanics. [\quote]
I was just in a local repair facility this week and talked about this very thing. The manager told me most of his work is emissions related - relatively simple stuff but requires expensive diagnostic equipment - followed by non engine/transmission work. Things like air conditioning or electrical stuff related to installed options. Third was maintenance (oil changes, tires, brakes etc.).
 
Back to the original radio interference topic....

Anyone else remember the 50's and 60's where some cars (modified by owners) had solid core ignition wiring? Those things would put up such a howl on the AM radio next door (and sometimes down the street) people actually got in fistfights.
 
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