Next move for W292DV, 106.3 Translator

[Jeffrey]

the translator is no longer on the air.

 

[Barry]

the translator is no longer on the air.

Assuming that is true, kudos to WKMK/Thunder Country for once again encouraging its listeners to object to the interference caused to their 106.3 frequency by the translator.
The translator may be on the move yet again. The owners have filed today yet another application with the FCC to relocate it. This time, if the filing is approved, it would move east to Glen Oaks, not far from the Queens/Nassau border. The new translator would run only 10 watts, but from a higher perch at 112 meters.
WVIP would continue to be the station it would retransmit. And unfortunately, the application is still for 106.3.
Perhaps the owners are figuring that moving it east will result in less interference to Thunder. But I am wondering whether the new location could result in increased interference with WDVY/Kicks Country in the Bronx and southern Westchester County. Even 10 watts can travel quite a distance if it is from a high clear location.

Coverage Map for Proposed W292DV location: https://licensing.fcc.gov/cdbs/CDBS...?appn=101497025&qnum=5160&copynum=1&exhcnum=2

 

[WNTIRadio]

WKMK is really breaking balls at this point. Nobody is listening to 106.3 in NYC on the east side or in Queens. Stop harassing a legal operator and get the FCC to go after the pirates that are causing a lot more problems than a 25 watt translator.

 

[Barry]

Nobody is listening to 106.3 in NYC on the east side or in Queens.

How do you know this?

 

[Jeffrey]

Nobody is listening to 106.3 in NYC on the east side or in Queens.

How do you know this?

He may know this because you can't hear WKMK on the eastside or in Queens. Unless you're getting some fierce atmospheric conditions there is no DXing WKMK north of the Manhattan Bridge.
WKMK is no more New York's only country station (even if that's their claim to fame) than WDHA is New York's only rock station despite the fact that WDHA's signal covers most of Manhattan without issue.
Perhaps WKMK could purchase W292DV and transmit into NYC. Then maybe they could stake their claim and could stop complaining about interference from some loser 25w translator....otherwise they really just need to focus on the Jersey shore which is where their licensed to broadcast. If there are some listeners in Staten Island and southern Brooklyn that's great but it is by pure chance.

 

[WNTIRadio]

They can't purchase W292DV, as it is outside their licensed 60dBu protected contour.

It would make more sense to listen to WKMK online in those areas than try to fight to get a faint signal. I'm sure there may be a few DX'ers with rooftop antennas, but seriously, they're not a NYC station.

Sure they cover parts of Staten Island and Brooklyn, but that doesn't make them a NYC station any more than WDHA or 107.1 the Peak is a NYC station.

If they REALLY want to cover NYC, get some cash together or LMA 94.7.

 

[ansky212]

You guys are totally missing the point. WKMK is protesting because of LISTENER complaints, not because they think people might be listening. You can go to the WKMK website and enter your address where you are experiencing the interference. Obviously people are complaining or they wouldn't care. If any of you owned a radio station you would be protesting too, regardless of where your listeners are "supposed" to be.

 

[Jeffrey]

They can't purchase W292DV, as it is outside their licensed 60dBu protected contour.

good point although WKMK would probably argue that it is.

 

[WNTIRadio]

Solicited listener complaints. From a few people, wayyy outside their contour. Yes, the rules are the rules and it gets the translator shut down. But what is it costing them in legal fees vs. the ROI on sustaining those few listeners in far flung Queens? They aren't selling any spots to businesses in that area.

If I owned it, I would let it go at this point. I understand when W292DV was on top of 4 Times Square, I would have fought that too, but now it's just ridiculous. Focus on your home market, which is the NJ shore and stop pretending to be a NYC station.

Again, make a deal for 94.7 and then you can be a NYC station!

 

[Jeffrey]

You guys are totally missing the point. WKMK is protesting because of LISTENER complaints, not because they think people might be listening. You can go to the WKMK website and enter your address where you are experiencing the interference. Obviously people are complaining or they wouldn't care. If any of you owned a radio station you would be protesting too, regardless of where your listeners are "supposed" to be.

Several comments I read on WKMK's facebook page had people complaining that lived no where near the area of interference. One woman posted " you can go ahead and complain no matter where you live just as long as you say you drove through the area where the interference is taking place. The FCC has no idea if you've been there or not". WKMK posted a complaint form on their website that would send it automatically to the FCC if you filled out the form and submitted it. Country fans are loyal, probably most of them had no idea what they were even complaining about but they just wanted to support the station. I seriously doubt that many actually contacted the FCC by their own free will without having seen the form on the WKMK website nor would I think the average person would even know how to complain to the FCC about a small translator.
More power to WKMK nonetheless, the law backs them but New York City is a very crowded market and frankly I would like more choice and stations on the dial and welcome translators broadcasting something different. I live in New York City and live in an area where you cannot get WKMK so an additional station on what for me is a frequency filled with static and pirates is welcome although admittedly at 25w it was pointless.

Of course if HD radio were more popular we could all stop complaining because we'd have more than enough terrestrial radio to go around and then some. It's such a shame radio doesn't spend more money on promoting the brand.
I bought a car last year which had HD radio. The dealer had the same car and while he promoted the HD radio as a perk he had no idea it had subchannels.

 

[ansky212]

WKMK regularly runs ads for a car dealership in Staten Island, and I have heard listeners call in from there. So at least in terms of 1 borough they can be considered a NYC station.

 

[Barry]

I have heard Thunder in parts of southern Queens quite clearly, even all the way out by Belmont racetrack.
And let's not forget that WDVY Kicks Country also gets into northern Queens, and probably has listeners there. They could be adversely affected by a translator on a tall building in Glen Oaks. WDVY also definitely has a listenable signal is most of the Bronx and southern Westchester County. The translator could possibly interfere in those areas too. Though the transmitter would only run 10 watts, it would be up quite high. And for much of the way to the Bronx and southern Westchester, there is only Long Island Sound in between.
Jeffrey, since the translator has also been broadcasting country music (from WVIP HD3), I doubt it would provide the additional choice you are seeking, given your past comments on this musical genre. But I would say that the proposed new location right near Nassau County makes more sense in terms of reaching potential country fans than the more urban Long Island City area the translator had been transmitting from.

 

[Jeffrey]

I have heard Thunder in parts of southern Queens quite clearly, even all the way out by Belmont racetrack.
And let's not forget that WDVY Kicks Country also gets into northern Queens, and probably has listeners there. They could be adversely affected by a translator on a tall building in Glen Oaks. WDVY also definitely has a listenable signal is most of the Bronx and southern Westchester County. The translator could possibly interfere in those areas too. Though the transmitter would only run 10 watts, it would be up quite high. And for much of the way to the Bronx and southern Westchester, there is only Long Island Sound in between.
Jeffrey, since the translator has also been broadcasting country music (from WVIP HD3), I doubt it would provide the additional choice you are seeking, given your past comments on this musical genre. But I would say that the proposed new location right near Nassau County makes more sense in terms of reaching potential country fans than the more urban Long Island City area the translator had been transmitting from.

You cannot hear WKMK in southern Queens on a regular basis unless your on high terrain and/or with a car radio. If atmospheric conditions are right you can pick up Philadelphia stations in southern Queens if we really want to go there but WKMK is not a station you can count on listening to. I'm in northern Brooklyn near the East River and there is no hint of WKMK. If you cross the Williamsburg Bridge you pull in WDVY but it's spotty and faint at best.

Not to mention I don't hear much complaining from WDVY about the translator since they don't try to bill themselves as NYC station when they're not. Incidentally WDVY comes in very well in eastern Queens and Nassau County.

..and yes, the translator, when it was on the air was broadcasting country music from WVIP-HD3 although when it first signed on it was broadcasting WVIP-HD1. It is unclear what their intended format will be. Nonetheless I welcome more selection to NY. radio. My personal choice is certainly not country music and I don't think it is a viable money making format in this market but if there is more choice in formats that is fine with me.
You're obviously a big advocate of country music Barry as one can tell by your constant promotion of the 2 suburban country stations and it would seem you live in an area served by the format but there are format holes in NYC that are more in keeping with the demographics of such an eclectic, progressive, ethnic city that are missing and my meek opinion is that country is not one of them.

 

[Barry]

Incidentally WDVY comes in very well in eastern Queens and Nassau County.

So there could be an interference issue once again on 106.3, if the translator is moved to Glen Oaks, near the eastern Queens/Nassau border. But this time the main problem could be with WDVY Kicks Country, rather than WKMK Thunder Country.
Judging by the fact that the translator would be right by Nassau County, it does seem the intention of WVIP is to broadcast a suburban format, such as country music (ie WVIP HD3).

 

[Jeffrey]

Incidentally WDVY comes in very well in eastern Queens and Nassau County.

So there could be an interference issue once again on 106.3, if the translator is moved to Glen Oaks, near the eastern Queens/Nassau border. But this time the main problem could be with WDVY Kicks Country, rather than WKMK Thunder Country.
Judging by the fact that the translator would be right by Nassau County, it does seem the intention of WVIP is to broadcast a suburban format, such as country music (ie WVIP HD3).

with the strength of the WDVY signal in Nassau County I don't see how a 10w translator could possibly overtake the WDVY signal. It is quite strong.

 

[WNTIRadio]

WKMK regularly runs ads for a car dealership in Staten Island, and I have heard listeners call in from there. So at least in terms of 1 borough they can be considered a NYC station.

So if a station runs spots from Peoria, then they are also a Peoria station? Yes their signal reaches Staten Island. It also reaches farther south, and if a deal is good on a car people will drive 20 mins to Staten Island.

That doesn't make them a NYC station. They are a shore station, with both transmitters licensed to the shore. Star 99.1 is more of a NYC station than WKMK is, and that is barely a NYC station. Covering part of 1 borough doesn't make you a NYC station.

They should stop the horsecrap and get back to serving their audience where 95% of it is: At the NJ shore.

 

[NJMark]

The rule is that a translator simply cannot interfere with a station when there are listeners who can hear - and want to hear - the station, absent said interference. And that's true whether those listeners are within the five boroughs or not.

The "New York station" debate is irrelevant.

 

[Barry]

Incidentally WDVY comes in very well in eastern Queens and Nassau County.

So there could be an interference issue once again on 106.3, if the translator is moved to Glen Oaks, near the eastern Queens/Nassau border. But this time the main problem could be with WDVY Kicks Country, rather than WKMK Thunder Country.
Judging by the fact that the translator would be right by Nassau County, it does seem the intention of WVIP is to broadcast a suburban format, such as country music (ie WVIP HD3).

with the strength of the WDVY signal in Nassau County I don't see how a 10w translator could possibly overtake the WDVY signal. It is quite strong.

Let's look at this logically. If WDVY's signal was so strong by the Queens/Nassau border that a translator transmitting from there could not be heard over it, the engineers that are figuring out where to put it would not recommend that location. But since the translator would be right there, and WDVY is about 40 miles away, the former could easily have the upper hand in that area, even with 10 watts.
And if WDVY has a strong signal in that vicinity, there certainly would be good grounds for complaint to the FCC if a translator were to interfere with it. As has been made clear numerous times in this discussion, it would not matter at all whether WDVY is a New York City station.
Perhaps the owner of the translator hopes that if it is moved enough times, eventually they will find a spot where it can coexist with the regular broadcast stations. But this does seem tough to pull off. It is rather odd that there is an attempt being made to add, via a translator, a country station to 106.3 (WVIP HD3), a frequency that is already carrying two others in the area.

 

[badjef]

The "official" New York City tier 1 stations on FM are: 88.3, 89.1, 89.9, 90.7, 91.5, 92.3, 93.1, 93.9, 94.7, 95.5, 96.3, 97.1, 97.9, 98.7, 99.5, 100.3, 101.1, 101.9, 102.7, 103.5, 104.3, 105.1, 105.9, 106.7, and 107.5.

A "New York City" station, can be any station with a sale able signal. The rating companies can disagree with me. The ADI/MSA extends up to 50 miles Empire. The key words "up to" have meaning.

The answer to the question depends on who's answering.

I know somebody who worked for WFME and thought he could put New York on the resume as a result of the frequency. They did not sell commercials as they were a noncommercial station as a translator from Oakland.

Jeff in Sa-ra-so-ta!

 

[Jeffrey]

Incidentally WDVY comes in very well in eastern Queens and Nassau County.

So there could be an interference issue once again on 106.3, if the translator is moved to Glen Oaks, near the eastern Queens/Nassau border. But this time the main problem could be with WDVY Kicks Country, rather than WKMK Thunder Country.
Judging by the fact that the translator would be right by Nassau County, it does seem the intention of WVIP is to broadcast a suburban format, such as country music (ie WVIP HD3).

with the strength of the WDVY signal in Nassau County I don't see how a 10w translator could possibly overtake the WDVY signal. It is quite strong.

Let's look at this logically. If WDVY's signal was so strong by the Queens/Nassau border that a translator transmitting from there could not be heard over it, the engineers that are figuring out where to put it would not recommend that location. But since the translator would be right there, and WDVY is about 40 miles away, the former could easily have the upper hand in that area, even with 10 watts.
And if WDVY has a strong signal in that vicinity, there certainly would be good grounds for complaint to the FCC if a translator were to interfere with it. As has been made clear numerous times in this discussion, it would not matter at all whether WDVY is a New York City station.
Perhaps the owner of the translator hopes that if it is moved enough times, eventually they will find a spot where it can coexist with the regular broadcast stations. But this does seem tough to pull off. It is rather odd that there is an attempt being made to add, via a translator, a country station to 106.3 (WVIP HD3), a frequency that is already carrying two others in the area.

I'm not an engineer so I have no idea whether a 10w translator could overtake WDVY's signal in that area but given the strength of the WDVY signal and brilliance of the engineers previous attempts I would doubt that it will be an audible signal and would likely cause a mess on 106.3 in that area. 106.3 is already a mess because of pirates, one of which can now frequently be heard through eastern Queens into Nassau. I don't see WDVY jumping on the band wagon to complain about the translator in Nassau county since Long Island isn't their focus. They seem to have a very different mentality to WKMK and isn't it also possible that the translator filed this application in a complicated attempt to move to another frequency?
Lastly, while country, WVIP-HD3 was the last format aired on the translator we have no idea what their intended format is nor do we have any idea of whether this translator will ever actually be permanant. Seems it can't find it's footing even after the sale last year.