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Nice to see the debate in here.

Re: YOU ARE A GENIUS. THANK YOU FOR SAVING US ALL

I make the same complaints about "alternative" rock CHRles, just that the Indie rock scene has grown to be strong and progressive, even if radio more or less ignores all that is new.

And my references are made to commercially viable dance, not underground remixes that Judge Jules spins.

Just because I intensely like something doesn't mean I see it as a "good" product to drag this genre back into the mainstream.

Richard's cool. I think we all evantually get a little
> ticked and frustrated with one another on this board with
> some issues. He wasn't being mean though, just sarcastic,
> and maybe a bit angry.
>
> I think that you may have more in common with him then you
> think, as he also enjoys a lot of non Dance music that you
> probably enjoy too. I don't think we're all just patting
> Dance music on the back blindly. We all know there's bad
> product out there, and there's always been some, but many of
> us feel there's a healthy amount of good Dance music too.
>
> Are you sure you're being objective when you make comments
> about Dance music versus other genres? There's a lot of bad
> product to be found in them too, and you don't even have to
> dig deep. Like others have said, it's all about the right
> promotional budgets, and the right trends that are currently
> setting in with America's youth.
>
 
Re: Picks, choices and information.

> So this isn't a sh*t on dance music fest, it's a legitmate
> complaint about something I have an INTENSE passion for.

Fair enough. Thus far, your complaint hasn't stated much more than the obvious IMO, which is indeed legitimate in many respects, and that today's music isn't all that great to your ears, which several of us clearly disagree with. You haven't really expanded in any detail on the music itself, which you've indicated to be the root of the problem (KNRJ's playlist, etc).

> If you want a list of what I think works, and what doesnt
> work? Sure, give me some time. Keep in mind what I
> personally like and what I think work are two diffie
> things.

Understood. Much is true of my own personal tastes; the records I play aren't always my own favorites, but they get the spins regardless because others connect with them. No one's asking for a definitive playlist here, just a few examples of what you do or don't think is good in today's music.

> You'll get your list (which you can then smash claiming I
> don't have any idea what I'm talking about).

I don't intend to *smash* anything; Russ and I have both asked for your input on this topic out of genuine interest. I'll post my honest thoughts and opinions, good or bad, regardless.

> And I do care about more than Dance music. But thats
> immaterial, right.

Not in the least. My own interest stretch far beyond what I do for a living. Nothing immaterial about that.

- M<P ID="signature">______________
Marcus McBride
Supermixx/XM
Select Mix</P>
 
Re: YOU ARE A GENIUS. THANK YOU FOR SAVING US ALL

yeah but you are talking about a genre that hasnt had a lot of success in years. A few here and there. In Philly CHR they play a few of the new ones kelly osbourne DHT but most of the dance tracks are classics. That what the masses know. Rockell in a dream can be heard probably every on Q. In areas that like Philly the classics have to be the bait. Im not talking two or three an hour.
 
Kaskade does a beer commercial

> > Hey! That's a great idea! I always thought Daft Punk would
>
> > be a great idea for an itunes commercial, but I know they
> > would never go for it. Body Rockers would be great for a
> > sodapop commercial, but maybe that's reaching too high.
> > again: HELLO?!?!
>
>
> I'd Shi* my pants if Kaskade did a beer commercial.
>

Well how about this, Mike... Kaskade wasn't IN the commercial, but there WAS a commercial (I don't remember the brand) that featured the intro to his song "Steppin Out." I think they took the first 8 bars or so of the song and looped it... I'm a huge fan of the song, so I know I wasn't hearing things. :) Anyone else remember this ad? I think it got some tv exposure during football season last fall or winter.

I won't ask you to s*** your pants, but is that enough to at least produce a brown stain? LOL
 
Re: Kaskade does a beer commercial

i believe it was a Bud or Bud Light commercial where the beers where falling into peoples hands from outta the sky. and the did loop the first part of the song...

> > > Hey! That's a great idea! I always thought Daft Punk
> would
> >
> > > be a great idea for an itunes commercial, but I know
> they
> > > would never go for it. Body Rockers would be great for a
>
> > > sodapop commercial, but maybe that's reaching too high.
> > > again: HELLO?!?!
> >
> >
> > I'd Shi* my pants if Kaskade did a beer commercial.
> >
>
> Well how about this, Mike... Kaskade wasn't IN the
> commercial, but there WAS a commercial (I don't remember the
> brand) that featured the intro to his song "Steppin Out." I
> think they took the first 8 bars or so of the song and
> looped it... I'm a huge fan of the song, so I know I wasn't
> hearing things. :) Anyone else remember this ad? I think
> it got some tv exposure during football season last fall or
> winter.
>
> I won't ask you to s*** your pants, but is that enough to at
> least produce a brown stain? LOL
>
 
Re: Kaskade does a beer commercial

> Well how about this, Mike... Kaskade wasn't IN the
> commercial, but there WAS a commercial (I don't remember the
> brand) that featured the intro to his song "Steppin Out."


Some people just don't get sarcasm, Mike.
 
Re: Kaskade does a beer commercial

> > Well how about this, Mike... Kaskade wasn't IN the
> > commercial, but there WAS a commercial (I don't remember
> the
> > brand) that featured the intro to his song "Steppin Out."
>
>
>
> Some people just don't get sarcasm, Mike.
>
Im glad to see someone else knew what Mr. Oaks was talking about. Mikes seems to have a good sense of Humour, but most dont see it, cause he is very subtle about it. His point was that a REAL Dance song, has already been used in a beer Comercial, and know one else was thinking about it. Im Assuming anyway.
 
Re: As you requested: How to fix dance

I just got in on this. Very interesting.

I really don't think there is anything to fix within the music itself...you will have good and bad in ANY genre. All you really have to do is look at Europe to know why dance does successful....the labels have the CASH to market the music as well the general audience appeal throughout the countries dance music serves.

The problem with the U.S. (and perhaps Canada...and yes, this is something we've all heard before) is the fact that being large nations, you have regionality differences. We know dance music works in liberal urban areas like New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Miami, Toronto. But it won't necessarily work in a Nashville, Atlanta, Boise, Dubuque, IA (not saying that there aren't any dance fans out there but they represent a tiny minority...certain over genres such as R&B/Hip-Hop, Pop and Country.)

And, unfortunately, dance music has an image problem with conservative thinkers...that the music is mainly for "gays" (you see the stereotypes on shows such as "(BLEEP) As Folk" and even a Simpsons episode where Homer wants to take Bart to a club to see real men..and you have construction guys around and when the whistle blows to end, the workplace turns into a gay nightclub.) Whereas with hip-hop and rock, there is a rebellion factor (image, demeanor, the "cool") that ALWAYS hooks the teens. And dance music really doesn't have that effect to those younger than 25. Dance HAD that with disco...the Vietnam war ended and people wanted to go against the "status quo" and just feel happy again...disco did that.

Just thought I'd add my thoughts but I don't think generally there is nothing wrong with the music...on its aesthetics. Just a matter of marketing to a nation that has regional differences and conservativism.

TS
 
Re: As you requested: How to fix dance

Very true Tony, but Europe has great regional differences. The UK is as different from Ireland as Ireland is different from Germany. But dance music still regularily hits the Top 40 whether it be in Dublin, London, Prague or Hamburg.

As for Gay...well I think that's regional as well. I work in Toronto, perhaps North Americas most gay friendly place (with SF). Having been to NYC many times, and Chi-Town, it too was very urban, very progressive, and being Gay wasn't really anything out of the ordinary. I've also been to Spokane, Montana, and several other states where I get the distinct feeling that being Gay isn't really that accepted.

But only in the USA is dance seen as gay. Look around the world, the UK is full of dance but you aren't gay if you listen to dance. Even in macho South America dance music isn't seen as gay (nor is dancing or kissing each other). So I really think this is an American thing, and an American thing only in certain areas of the country.

(BLEEP) as Folk in the UK is way different than (BLEEP) as Folk in the United States. Sometimes, it's good to be Canadian because you get to see both sides of the coin. Myself...well I've DJ'd a gay club so the whole gay thing is really a non issue. After many years working the "culture" I've learned that our stereotypes of Gay are just that...stereotypes. Gay people aren't any different than you or I. Just they like the same sex. Some like punk, some like dance, some like rap, some like country. Being gay does NOT mean you like dance.

I just got in on this. Very interesting.
>
> I really don't think there is anything to fix within the
> music itself...you will have good and bad in ANY genre. All
> you really have to do is look at Europe to know why dance
> does successful....the labels have the CASH to market the
> music as well the general audience appeal throughout the
> countries dance music serves.
>
> The problem with the U.S. (and perhaps Canada...and yes,
> this is something we've all heard before) is the fact that
> being large nations, you have regionality differences. We
> know dance music works in liberal urban areas like New York,
> Chicago, San Francisco, Miami, Toronto. But it won't
> necessarily work in a Nashville, Atlanta, Boise, Dubuque, IA
> (not saying that there aren't any dance fans out there but
> they represent a tiny minority...certain over genres such as
> R&B/Hip-Hop, Pop and Country.)
>
> And, unfortunately, dance music has an image problem with
> conservative thinkers...that the music is mainly for "gays"
> (you see the stereotypes on shows such as "(BLEEP) As Folk"
> and even a Simpsons episode where Homer wants to take Bart
> to a club to see real men..and you have construction guys
> around and when the whistle blows to end, the workplace
> turns into a gay nightclub.) Whereas with hip-hop and rock,
> there is a rebellion factor (image, demeanor, the "cool")
> that ALWAYS hooks the teens. And dance music really doesn't
> have that effect to those younger than 25. Dance HAD that
> with disco...the Vietnam war ended and people wanted to go
> against the "status quo" and just feel happy again...disco
> did that.
>
> Just thought I'd add my thoughts but I don't think generally
> there is nothing wrong with the music...on its aesthetics.
> Just a matter of marketing to a nation that has regional
> differences and conservativism.
>
> TS
>
 
Re: As you requested: How to fix dance

(Me in parenthesis)

> Very true Tony, but Europe has great regional differences.
> The UK is as different from Ireland as Ireland is different
> from Germany. But dance music still regularily hits the Top
> 40 whether it be in Dublin, London, Prague or Hamburg.

(Oh yeah, no doubt. I really didn't elaborate on Europe with the regional differences. Generally speaking whatever country you are in, dance music is widely accepted.)

> As for Gay...well I think that's regional as well. I work
> in Toronto, perhaps North Americas most gay friendly place
> (with SF). Having been to NYC many times, and Chi-Town, it
> too was very urban, very progressive, and being Gay wasn't
> really anything out of the ordinary. I've also been to
> Spokane, Montana, and several other states where I get the
> distinct feeling that being Gay isn't really that accepted.

(And that's the point I was making regarding the regionalities along with the stereotypes. It's the liberal cities (such as NY, T.O, Miami, SF) that tend to have the hottest underground clubs going on, and the gay population frequents them. And in most cases right along the straight population that wants to hear the harder dance sound that radio just doesn't go to. You are definitely NOT going to get that in a Spokane, Butte, Wyoming, rural Texas.)

> But only in the USA is dance seen as gay. Look around the
> world, the UK is full of dance but you aren't gay if you
> listen to dance. Even in macho South America dance music
> isn't seen as gay (nor is dancing or kissing each other).
> So I really think this is an American thing, and an American
> thing only in certain areas of the country.

(Well, the stereotypes have been put out there in the media unfortunately regarding the states. It doesn't make a hill of difference in Europe. But in a country that, outside of the major cities, is VERY conservative the US still has a problem with the gay lifestyle. And when people in those regional areas (mainly the South) think of dance (as WE see it since most people would consider country their "dance" music), they tend to think gay.

> (BLEEP) as Folk in the UK is way different than (BLEEP) as
> Folk in the United States. Sometimes, it's good to be
> Canadian because you get to see both sides of the coin.
> Myself...well I've DJ'd a gay club so the whole gay thing is
> really a non issue. After many years working the "culture"
> I've learned that our stereotypes of Gay are just
> that...stereotypes. Gay people aren't any different than
> you or I. Just they like the same sex. Some like punk,
> some like dance, some like rap, some like country. Being
> gay does NOT mean you like dance.

RENEGADE...I AGREE WITH YOU INFINITY PERCENT ON THAT!! :) Though Country fans won't want to admit it LOL :)

I did spin a gay night in a club during my college days and I gotta say, those nights I liked WAY better than the straight nights. No tensions, no having to "cater" by playing mainstream tunes. On the gay nights I was spinning house (which was spank new in the mid-80's) and was just free-form, going as underground as I could. Those nights were the best! I had many gay friends and they knew I was straight...and it was good! :)

However, as liberal as WE are about this, the majority of the US (and I would think certain parts of Canada..no matter how much more liberal your country is over mine) is not and that is what makes dance music hard to crack throughout the rest of the country outside of the hot spots. And for dance to gain a larger audience, it has to GO OUT to those areas and smash the "stereotype" wall down.

Who knows...maybe it has to take another hit movie like "Saturday Night Fever" or something to get more people hooked...I dunno.

TS
 
Re: As you requested: How to fix dance

Tony, you know what says it all? The fact that the word QU*EER is edited on this forum. Its 5 42 AM and it made me laugh.

The gay culture always embraced new music, and I found that you could take a song and spin it and they'd be more open to it than hetero folk would. I also learned there are gay anthems, a "sound" of sorts. Kim English was one.

(Me in parenthesis)
>
> > Very true Tony, but Europe has great regional differences.
>
> > The UK is as different from Ireland as Ireland is
> different
> > from Germany. But dance music still regularily hits the
> Top
> > 40 whether it be in Dublin, London, Prague or Hamburg.
>
> (Oh yeah, no doubt. I really didn't elaborate on Europe
> with the regional differences. Generally speaking whatever
> country you are in, dance music is widely accepted.)
>
> > As for Gay...well I think that's regional as well. I work
>
> > in Toronto, perhaps North Americas most gay friendly place
>
> > (with SF). Having been to NYC many times, and Chi-Town,
> it
> > too was very urban, very progressive, and being Gay wasn't
>
> > really anything out of the ordinary. I've also been to
> > Spokane, Montana, and several other states where I get the
>
> > distinct feeling that being Gay isn't really that
> accepted.
>
> (And that's the point I was making regarding the
> regionalities along with the stereotypes. It's the liberal
> cities (such as NY, T.O, Miami, SF) that tend to have the
> hottest underground clubs going on, and the gay population
> frequents them. And in most cases right along the straight
> population that wants to hear the harder dance sound that
> radio just doesn't go to. You are definitely NOT going to
> get that in a Spokane, Butte, Wyoming, rural Texas.)
>
> > But only in the USA is dance seen as gay. Look around the
> > world, the UK is full of dance but you aren't gay if you
> > listen to dance. Even in macho South America dance music
> > isn't seen as gay (nor is dancing or kissing each other).
>
> > So I really think this is an American thing, and an
> American
> > thing only in certain areas of the country.
>
> (Well, the stereotypes have been put out there in the media
> unfortunately regarding the states. It doesn't make a hill
> of difference in Europe. But in a country that, outside of
> the major cities, is VERY conservative the US still has a
> problem with the gay lifestyle. And when people in those
> regional areas (mainly the South) think of dance (as WE see
> it since most people would consider country their "dance"
> music), they tend to think gay.
>
> > (BLEEP) as Folk in the UK is way different than (BLEEP) as
>
> > Folk in the United States. Sometimes, it's good to be
> > Canadian because you get to see both sides of the coin.
> > Myself...well I've DJ'd a gay club so the whole gay thing
> is
> > really a non issue. After many years working the
> "culture"
> > I've learned that our stereotypes of Gay are just
> > that...stereotypes. Gay people aren't any different than
> > you or I. Just they like the same sex. Some like punk,
> > some like dance, some like rap, some like country. Being
> > gay does NOT mean you like dance.
>
> RENEGADE...I AGREE WITH YOU INFINITY PERCENT ON THAT!! :)
> Though Country fans won't want to admit it LOL :)
>
> I did spin a gay night in a club during my college days and
> I gotta say, those nights I liked WAY better than the
> straight nights. No tensions, no having to "cater" by
> playing mainstream tunes. On the gay nights I was spinning
> house (which was spank new in the mid-80's) and was just
> free-form, going as underground as I could. Those nights
> were the best! I had many gay friends and they knew I was
> straight...and it was good! :)
>
> However, as liberal as WE are about this, the majority of
> the US (and I would think certain parts of Canada..no matter
> how much more liberal your country is over mine) is not and
> that is what makes dance music hard to crack throughout the
> rest of the country outside of the hot spots. And for dance
> to gain a larger audience, it has to GO OUT to those areas
> and smash the "stereotype" wall down.
>
> Who knows...maybe it has to take another hit movie like
> "Saturday Night Fever" or something to get more people
> hooked...I dunno.
>
> TS
>
 
Re: As you requested: How to fix dance

> Tony, you know what says it all? The fact that the word
> QU*EER is edited on this forum. Its 5 42 AM and it made me
> laugh.
>
> The gay culture always embraced new music, and I found that
> you could take a song and spin it and they'd be more open to
> it than hetero folk would. I also learned there are gay
> anthems, a "sound" of sorts. Kim English was one.
>

Yeah, I just caught that edit! I couldn't believe it! It wasn't as if we were calling someone that term...it's what the producers used for a title of a friggin TV show! I can understand if someone here used it in a derogatory manner but to reference a show title? C'mon mods...I love ya guys but really....

Yet in a strange sort of way, proves the point.

And exactly the point regarding the new music. It was a tough sell to try to break something new to the hetero crowds...it was like if they didn't hear it on the radio, they won't dance to something they weren't familiar with whereas the gay crowd, I could crack open a house track, never even heard it myself until the pre-cue. Once I spun it and the track was working, they embraced it..and if not, off to the next track.

Regarding the gay anthems....I went to a "Juniorverse" years ago and there were certain songs (yep, Kim English was one of them) where gays completely went nuts over! It's that "sound" that you are talking about....flamboyant, soulful, totally commanding.

TS
 
Re: As you requested: How to fix dance

I figure the gay culture always embraced new first..because their culture was so underground.

Will this change with the wholesale acceptance of gay culture? It's alot easier to be gay in 2005 than it was even 10 years ago. My hairstylist is openly (BLEEP) and I talk to him about acceptance and he claims it's remarkable how the world has changed (and in my city of 300 000).

But will this take away from all that was so innovative with the culture? While gay culture isn't fully accepted by the mainstream, it is at least acknowledged. I just hope America can get past the stereotype that all gay men own two pugs, dress well and look like BT :?).

I'll be the first hetero dood to admit that I love the club scene with respect to gay culture and dance music. My GF and I regularily visit Toronto's Gay Village to go out to nightclubs and the music is STILL HOT!. They also seem very accepting of hiphop, provided it's got a groove and it's not too macho. It's still a place where you can hear some of the best underground dance in the city

Try www.mancandy.ca Tony. Online radio out of Toronto and it's pretty damn interesting. Even the main channel which plays all forms of music finds some of the best, new, innovative artists (and some of the older ones that were forgot by mainstream people elsewhere).
>
> Yeah, I just caught that edit! I couldn't believe it! It
> wasn't as if we were calling someone that term...it's what
> the producers used for a title of a friggin TV show! I can
> understand if someone here used it in a derogatory manner
> but to reference a show title? C'mon mods...I love ya guys
> but really....
>
> Yet in a strange sort of way, proves the point.
>
> And exactly the point regarding the new music. It was a
> tough sell to try to break something new to the hetero
> crowds...it was like if they didn't hear it on the radio,
> they won't dance to something they weren't familiar with
> whereas the gay crowd, I could crack open a house track,
> never even heard it myself until the pre-cue. Once I spun
> it and the track was working, they embraced it..and if not,
> off to the next track.
>
> Regarding the gay anthems....I went to a "Juniorverse" years
> ago and there were certain songs (yep, Kim English was one
> of them) where gays completely went nuts over! It's that
> "sound" that you are talking about....flamboyant, soulful,
> totally commanding.
>
> TS
>
 
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