No oldies for 96.7...

[indydood]

Just by turning on oldies and marketing it a little they'll probably make a couple of million. (200K a month works out to 50 thousand a week, 7K a day, just counting prime hours (6a-7p) they'd need to bill an average of 583 bucks and hour- with 10 minutes of spots (and that's low compared to KLUV) they need to sell spots for 58 bucks a piece. Extremly low spot price, especially if they get any decent 25-54 numbers. And I bet there's a lot of people who'd like to be on KLUV but who've been priced out by increasing ratings and the corresponding increasing revenue.

LOL hey, marketing a new product "a little" is like not marketing it at all. there's no ROI investing $200k a month into a 2nd tier fringe format station. If you price it "extremely low", you're saying to the ad community "we don't believe that much in ourselves............we are cheap and we'll price it cheap". You'll NEVER make back that $200k a month back, much less turn enough profit to satisfy Wall Street.

And, yes, Citadel IS using their own True Oldies Channel- off the satellite.

 

[longtimelistener]

Again, for the record:

Citadel owns WBAP, KSCS, KTYS and the ABC Radio Networks. Disney owns ESPN 103.3 and 620AM. (The Wolf is owned by Cumulus). Geez.

 

[davideduardo]

Actually KTYS has a huge Signal. And the only ppl that really wouldnt get it are the ppl that live east to southeast of Dallas. KTYS Covers the Dallas, Sherman, Ardmore, and Wichita Falls Markets along with a good portion of Oklahoma. KTYS if it wouldve flipped to true Oldies could very well Hurt KLUV quite a bit in its Northern and Western areas.

True oldies is late, late 50's and 60's stuff. KLUV is really what is now called classic hits, with most of the music coming from the 70's. Two different demos.

The KTYS site is near the point where Montague, Wise and Cooke counties meet. The 70 dbu just reaches Lewisville in the radial headed towards Dallas. This is a classic rimshot, with the 70 dbu covering only 688,003 persons; reviews of Arbitron diaries for at home and at work ZIP codes shows about 80% of all listening takes place in the 70, with 15% more between the 64 and the 70. The 64 dbu barely hits Ft Worth and Irving.

The total population of the Dallas MSA is 6.03 million (not the Arbitron 12+) so the 70 on this distant rimshot barely reaches 12% of the radio market.

KTYS, were it to offer a very unique niche format, could "extend" its useful coverage as a portion of the partisans of such a format would put up with weak signal situations to hear it. True Oldies would be an example of this. Yet another country station would not.

 

[davideduardo]

I don't know what contour maps David is looking at, but they are incorrect. I probably ought to settle it once and for all and go out with a field strength meter. But I don't have the time and gas is expensive just to settle one argument.

I am looking at calculated 70 and 64 dbu contours using one of the mapping applicacations used for filings... just straight contours, not Langley Rice, since the land is so flat. 70 and 64 are the contours where 80% and 95% of the in home and at work listening occurs, so are very appropriate to use.

 

[txchipk]

Actually KTYS has a huge Signal. And the only ppl that really wouldnt get it are the ppl that live east to southeast of Dallas. KTYS Covers the Dallas, Sherman, Ardmore, and Wichita Falls Markets along with a good portion of Oklahoma. KTYS if it wouldve flipped to true Oldies could very well Hurt KLUV quite a bit in its Northern and Western areas.

True oldies is late, late 50's and 60's stuff. KLUV is really what is now called classic hits, with most of the music coming from the 70's. Two different demos.

The KTYS site is near the point where Montague, Wise and Cooke counties meet. The 70 dbu just reaches Lewisville in the radial headed towards Dallas. This is a classic rimshot, with the 70 dbu covering only 688,003 persons; reviews of Arbitron diaries for at home and at work ZIP codes shows about 80% of all listening takes place in the 70, with 15% more between the 64 and the 70. The 64 dbu barely hits Ft Worth and Irving.

The total population of the Dallas MSA is 6.03 million (not the Arbitron 12+) so the 70 on this distant rimshot barely reaches 12% of the radio market.

KTYS, were it to offer a very unique niche format, could "extend" its useful coverage as a portion of the partisans of such a format would put up with weak signal situations to hear it. True Oldies would be an example of this. Yet another country station would not.

Within reason of course...below 50 dBU, the signal starts disappearing off many radios as it gets crushed by KSCS and KEGL or there is too much static/weakness for most people to tolerate.

Within its 60 dBU contour, what is the population like (ethnic, age, etc.)? I always assumed mostly white and suburban or rural. But, all the other signals but 96.7 that broadcast from that area have chosen to target anything but that (93.7, 99.1, 101.7, 105.7, 106.7)...

 

[davideduardo]

Within reason of course...below 50 dBU, the signal starts disappearing off many radios as it gets crushed by KSCS and KEGL or there is too much static/weakness for most people to tolerate.

The listener, as proven by 10 years of monitoring diary mentions and plotting them against contours, for in home and at work (i.e. behind walls) in 80% of cases is inside the 70 dbu and in 95% of cases is inside the 64 dbu; outside of that, there is virtually no listening making one assume that the listener failed to properly check "in car" in which case Arbitron defaults to "in home" and this explains outside 64 dbu in home listening.

Within its 60 dBU contour, what is the population like (ethnic, age, etc.)?

The population is just over 3.2 million, and about 300 thousand of that is in counties not part of the Dallas MSA. So it's about 2.9 million and about 45% of the MSA in the 60. Fine for cars, but the 64 would be just under 1.8 million... the practical reach for most listening... and less than a third of the metro.

I always assumed mostly white and suburban or rural.

It's about the same mix as the market overall... something around 28% Hispanic, lower in Black, bit higher in non-Hispanic white. Age mix about the same.

But, all the other signals but 96.7 that broadcast from that area have chosen to target anything but that (93.7, 99.1, 101.7, 105.7, 106.7)...

That's because none of them have much population in the 70 dbu at all... 500 k to 800 k... and no identifiable market. They make more taking bites from the metro than trying to sell local direct in places like Krum.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I am looking at calculated 70 and 64 dbu contours using one of the mapping applicacations used for filings... just straight contours, not Langley Rice, since the land is so flat. 70 and 64 are the contours where 80% and 95% of the in home and at work listening occurs, so are very appropriate to use.

Simulations and mathmatical estimates. NOT very useful for real world situations.

Aren't you the one who argues continually that most listening takes place in cars - and nobody much listens to the radio at home, especially at night? So the $5 clock radio scenario isn't real. A car radio, even garden variety stock, has plenty of sensitivity to pick up KTYS in perfect stereo all over the metroplex, even out to Mesquite and down to Hutchins. I've done it when they were a different format. Not even a glitch in stereo reception. Car listeners will have it as another pushbutton, treating it like a local, because there is virtually no difference between it and something on the Ceder Hill Towers. The only difference I've ever found on 106.7, with a normal - not modified - Delco is that 96.7 is hard to hear South of Corsicana and the rest of the DFW stations make it to Buffalo or Centerville. And out West KTYS lasts to Benjamin while the others are lost by Seymour. So there is a shift in coverage due to the tower location, but the KTYS location is almost as good to cover the whole metro area as far as normal car radios are concerned.

 

[davideduardo]

Simulations and mathmatical estimates. NOT very useful for real world situations.

No, this is pure laws of physics based on propagation, height and power. In the flat terrain of Dallas, I don't even have to do a Langley-Rice as a free space contour is quite effective.

In any case, analysis of the last 10 years of ratings shows Dallas to run true to other markets, with 95% of the in home and at work listening inside the 64 dbu contour.

Aren't you the one who argues continually that most listening takes place in cars - and nobody much listens to the radio at home, especially at night?

No, 70% of all AQH listening is in home or at work. Total listening to radio in 7-Midnight is about a third of the level of 6 AM toi 7 PM, irrespective of listening location.

So the $5 clock radio scenario isn't real. A car radio, even garden variety stock, has plenty of sensitivity to pick up KTYS in perfect stereo all over the metroplex, even out to Mesquite and down to Hutchins.

True, but several proven things apply. First, people tend to listen in the car to the same stations they listen to at home and at work. If one piece is missing, then they find another station UNLESS the station is so unduplicated in appeal that an extra effort kicks in. We see this commonly with almost DX listening to Classical stations, but not much with less unique formats. Second, with 70% of listening in home or at work, short listening spans in cars does not add that much AQH listening unless accompanied by some in home or work listening.

(car listening discussion eliminated as you think I said in-car was the bulk of listening, which it never has been.)

 

[Texaz]

I can listen to various formats in the car. However, If I was going to listen to a radio station for 8 hours at work, it would not be a Country or CHR station. Too much repeating of the same songs. I could do KVIL or KLAK if they did a no repeat workday. I don't want to hear the same song 8 times in one day. So my choice for an 8 hour day at work would be a station that does not specialize in new songs.

Once I get in the car, I will tune into Country, CHR, New Rock and whatever else I feel like.

 

[jeffdfw]

I can listen to various formats in the car. However, If I was going to listen to a radio station for 8 hours at work, it would not be a Country or CHR station. Too much repeating of the same songs. I could do KVIL or KLAK if they did a no repeat workday. I don't want to hear the same song 8 times in one day. So my choice for an 8 hour day at work would be a station that does not specialize in new songs.

Once I get in the car, I will tune into Country, CHR, New Rock and whatever else I feel like.

I agree. I usually listen to Jagger mornings and Russ afternoons and XM in between. BPM (Dance), Fred (Classic Alt), Flight 26 (Modern AC) or Watercolors (SJ). What ever fits the mood.

 

[rbrucecarter5]

I can listen to various formats in the car. However, If I was going to listen to a radio station for 8 hours at work, it would not be a Country or CHR station. Too much repeating of the same songs. I could do KVIL or KLAK if they did a no repeat workday. I don't want to hear the same song 8 times in one day. So my choice for an 8 hour day at work would be a station that does not specialize in new songs.

Once I get in the car, I will tune into Country, CHR, New Rock and whatever else I feel like.

Well put. At home or work - I bypass the local stations completely and stream. It is only a matter of time before the majority of people do. If you add in iPods, local radio is in deep trouble. Especially when I roll down the freeway and count dozens of times I hear FM modulators on satellite or iPod. How long before streaming is added to car options as well? If I had a reliable way to stream in the car right now, I'd do it. Because I've got niche formats I prefer - same as everybody else. And local stations aren't playing it ----

 

[Radio_Winner]

Is there a target date for the flip?

 

[charles123]

Is there a target date for the flip?

Maybe Memorial Day weekend.

 

[bigdealinbigd]

who cares?

So it won't be Shannon's True Oldies...

HOWEVER...starting next Friday, you can hear MIKE Shannon's Really Truly Truest Oldies on KMNY-1360AM!

More to come!

 

[CW]

who cares?

I for one don't.......