No we are not that dumb CC

[aunti-terrestrial]

Well, a lot of people are angry that there IS no choice. If you like rock, you either tough it out with the offerings of terrestrial, or you go find other alternatives. Once you've made the decision, like Fredthehead has, to spend the money and move on to something better, it's hard not to look at your old lack of choice without a certain amount of cynicism and, dare I say, derision. I'm fairly certain that once Fred's satellite car kit comes in, the Arrow can play whatever it wants to and it won't bother him ever again. I think we see a lot of that anger and disillusionment on the part of listeners and former listeners. It's a shame that radio folks are kicking him in the face on his way out, but I guess anything but grand praise is just too hard for some to hear or tolerate. That's a shame. We don't learn anything from those who only tell us whatever it is that we want to hear.

I'm always sorry when I see dedicated listeners, who really loved radio and wanted to keep their end of the radio partnership, leave for good. I'm even sorrier when I see them being abused on their way out the door. However, I'm extremely happy for anybody who makes the wise decision as a consumer to go get the music they like, whether traditional radio wants to give it to them or not.

When you fail to listen to the listeners, they stop listening to you. Fred isn't the one who broke the bargain first. He hung in as long as he could. He's just reacting now to those who obviously never really cared about his opinion, anyway. I can't say I blame him. Hey, just because you file for divorce doesn't mean you're happy it had to come down to that, right?

 

[its time w (your name)]

Well, a lot of people are angry that there IS no choice. If you like rock, you either tough it out with the offerings of terrestrial, or you go find other alternatives. Once you've made the decision, like Fredthehead has, to spend the money and move on to something better, it's hard not to look at your old lack of choice without a certain amount of cynicism and, dare I say, derision. I'm fairly certain that once Fred's satellite car kit comes in, the Arrow can play whatever it wants to and it won't bother him ever again. I think we see a lot of that anger and disillusionment on the part of listeners and former listeners. It's a shame that radio folks are kicking him in the face on his way out, but I guess anything but grand praise is just too hard for some to hear or tolerate. That's a shame. We don't learn anything from those who only tell us whatever it is that we want to hear.

I'm always sorry when I see dedicated listeners, who really loved radio and wanted to keep their end of the radio partnership, leave for good. I'm even sorrier when I see them being abused on their way out the door. However, I'm extremely happy for anybody who makes the wise decision as a consumer to go get the music they like, whether traditional radio wants to give it to them or not.

When you fail to listen to the listeners, they stop listening to you. Fred isn't the one who broke the bargain first. He hung in as long as he could. He's just reacting now to those who obviously never really cared about his opinion, anyway. I can't say I blame him. Hey, just because you file for divorce doesn't mean you're happy it had to come down to that, right?

Well Said, Aunti. It stands to reason that the collective expertise of this board should be a good indicator of the state of the business, as well as a continuous brainstorming session for what could make it better. Do we have any power here? No, but change must start somewhere, and some of us are going to grow up to be people in charge. How the hell do we ever affect change without discussing what it is that needs changing? Sorry to disrupt the Kool Aid party.

Live Nation/CC/ Instant Music whatever. Obviously, for those of us clairvoyant enough to see the obvious, there is some sort of collusion, collaboration, whatever term you want to phrase it. I may not share a bank account w/ my mama, but if you help me, you help her.

Congrats, FredHead on your personal music renaissance. Do not stop coming here to give us your insights. You never know who I'm going to grow up to be, and I am still stealing people's brains.

 

[fmtooner]

Well, a lot of people are angry that there IS no choice. If you like rock, you either tough it out with the offerings of terrestrial, or you go find other alternatives.

actually that is a choice. the angry people just don't like the choices being offered.


toon

 

[fredthehead]

Thanks for the kudos aunti and name.....

I am very happy with my purchase, I have heard songs I've never heard before and things I haven't heard in years, and you know what? NOT ONE FREAKING FOO FIGHTERS SONG OR FINGER ELEVEN OR SWEET HOME ALABAMA!

 

[walter1]

Right, but there are still interests in Universal Music Group, LiveNation, and InstantLive.

I looked at the filings of Live Nation, and Clear is not an owner of any reportable number of shares. They spun 100% of their interest in the entertainment division to shareholders in January of 2006.

They are not shareholders of Universal or InstantLive. CC has joint ventures, and tiny ones, with those companies. A joint venture is where two or more participant put technology, money or sweat equity towards a new business. None of the participants, however, suddenly own parts of the other participants. Please update yourself on business terms and practices before you make this kind of statement or accusation.

Let's see what is the address of CC and LiveNation? Oh yea same building! And when I want concert tickets from CC where do they go? 13th floor. There's still a partnership there, although not quite as tight.

 

[DickNixon]

Walt,

The reason they're in the same building has nothing do do with a partnership. Even when it was the same company, the leases for Live Nation (then CCE) and CC Radio we're handled by completely different companies, completely different people, and at completely different times. The relationship now is no different than it would be if Entercom owned the rock stations. Conspiracies are fun to talk about, but you'll not find one at 2000 West Loop So.

 

[rocknrollisdead]

Thanks for the kudos aunti and name.....

I am very happy with my purchase, I have heard songs I've never heard before and things I haven't heard in years, and you know what? NOT ONE FREAKING FOO FIGHTERS SONG OR FINGER ELEVEN OR SWEET HOME ALABAMA!

A-freakin'-MEN!

 

[walter1]

Walt,

The reason they're in the same building has nothing do do with a partnership. Even when it was the same company, the leases for Live Nation (then CCE) and CC Radio we're handled by completely different companies, completely different people, and at completely different times. The relationship now is no different than it would be if Entercom owned the rock stations. Conspiracies are fun to talk about, but you'll not find one at 2000 West Loop So.

I never meant to imply there was a conspiracy, a relationship yes, conspiracy no.

 

[davideduardo]

I never meant to imply there was a conspiracy, a relationship yes, conspiracy no.

Promoters are always going to try to have relationships with radio stations that can promote events.

Live Nation used to be Clear Channel Entertainment and was part of CCU. In some cases, they may have negotiated leases together, etc. Upon being spun off, the Live Nation folks were not going to move offices and break leases just to be more separate from CCU.

Relationships are part of all business, and there is, in 99.9999999% of the time, nothing unethical or improper about that. And many relationships are built over time, so the ones between Clear and its spin-off are naturally going to be strong. So what?

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

Of course, a quick check of the Wikipedia entry for Live Nation eliminates much of the "confusion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Nation

Current members of the board of directors of Live Nation are: Henry Cisneros, Jeffrey T. Hinson, L. Lowry Mays, Mark P. Mays, Randall T. Mays, Connie McCombs McNab, John N. Simons, Jr., Timothy P. Sullivan, Harvey Weinstein, Michael Cohl, and Michael Rapino

 

[davideduardo]

Of course, a quick check of the Wikipedia entry for Live Nation eliminates much of the "confusion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Nation

Current members of the board of directors of Live Nation are: Henry Cisneros, Jeffrey T. Hinson, L. Lowry Mays, Mark P. Mays, Randall T. Mays, Connie McCombs McNab, John N. Simons, Jr., Timothy P. Sullivan, Harvey Weinstein, Michael Cohl, and Michael Rapino

Again, Clear Channel does not own Live Nation.

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

Of course, a quick check of the Wikipedia entry for Live Nation eliminates much of the "confusion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_Nation

Current members of the board of directors of Live Nation are: Henry Cisneros, Jeffrey T. Hinson, L. Lowry Mays, Mark P. Mays, Randall T. Mays, Connie McCombs McNab, John N. Simons, Jr., Timothy P. Sullivan, Harvey Weinstein, Michael Cohl, and Michael Rapino

Again, Clear Channel does not own Live Nation.

*sigh* You know, what's funny is that, as a parent of a teenager, I often feel exasperated at having to explain the difference between the spirit and the letter of a rule. My kids could teach you a thing or two about surfing loopholes, hon. This is the kiddie wave.

I may not share a bank account w/ my mama, but if you help me, you help her.

Technically, Dave may be right, sure, the proper papers have been filed and the words all look right on the page. However, Dave, your sweeping total assessment about where the dollar trail goes is either misleading, mislead, or just false. Hey, stick to your guns, that's cool, too. Other people can actually read for themselves and decide whether or not other board members are full of sh*t when we post stuff that runs counter to your blustering. You just argue for the sake of argument, anyway, so...whatever, hoss, it's your business if you want to believe the crap you're spewing with all your little heart.

Would you like another Dixie Cup (TM) of Kool-Aid (TM), my friend? It doesn't cost the consumer all that much---only $ an arm and a leg for seats in your average Pavilion show a coupla times a year, plus a boatload of service charges, heading straight into the golden retirement fund of a couple of good ol' boys from Texas who made out like bandits at the expense of the entire industry we all used to love.

 

[kendro]

It's too easy to read a press release or some internal corporate memo.
If it really mattered how this was tied to the crumbling Mays Empire, I'd do it. Truth is that it doesn't matter anymore. The garage to venue labyrinth has been laid and the performers are corraled through it.

However, if you care to know how many localities the Live Nation umbrella touches, look here:
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1335258/000119312508043193/dex211.htm

 

[davideduardo]

Technically, Dave may be right, sure, the proper papers have been filed and the words all look right on the page. However, Dave, your sweeping total assessment about where the dollar trail goes is either misleading, mislead, or just false. Hey, stick to your guns, that's cool, too. Other people can actually read for themselves and decide whether or not other board members are full of sh*t when we post stuff that runs counter to your blustering. You just argue for the sake of argument, anyway, so...whatever, hoss, it's your business if you want to believe the crap you're spewing with all your little heart.

What matters is who owns the company. While the Mays family may have a small percentage, they do not control the company. In fact, one of the directors you did not highlight was CFO of Univision Radio and now is COO of Border Media, a Clear Channel competitor. What does that say?

Most of the shares, 97% in fact, are owned by institutional investors, such as investment banks, mutual funds, pension funds, insurance companies, etc. http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=LYV shows who really owns it. It's not the Mays family, and it is definitely not Clear Channel, which spun 100% of its interest off.

You can go for a conspiracy theory. Fine. I prefer to think that the Mays were invited to stay on the board for the sake of continuity, which shows prudence and diligence on the part of the overall board.

 

[Fo-Fo-Fo-Hye]

David, aunti got blown out at Clear Channel. She's got a axe to grind. No matter what the issue she always turns it into an anti CC thing. Look at the start of most threads she jumps in on. Over half the time they have nothing to do with CC, she turns them that way and then when proven wrong just changes threads.

 

[davideduardo]

David, aunti got blown out at Clear Channel. She's got a axe to grind. No matter what the issue she always turns it into an anti CC thing. Look at the start of most threads she jumps in on. Over half the time they have nothing to do with CC, she turns them that way and then when proven wrong just changes threads.

I guess I should have guessed that. Whatever her affiliation or background, she has absolutely no understanding of business and business practices, as evidenced by her misunderstanding of the meaning of board membership as well as what a spinoff is. It's too bad that so few people who work in a for-profit business understand how business works.

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

David, aunti got blown out at Clear Channel. She's got a axe to grind. No matter what the issue she always turns it into an anti CC thing. Look at the start of most threads she jumps in on. Over half the time they have nothing to do with CC, she turns them that way and then when proven wrong just changes threads.

Ah, the great debate tactic known as poisoning the well, which is accompanied by ad homenim and followed closely by the twin hounds of condesension and patronization. Okay, we can do that just a little. David, Fofo is a corporate shill who thinks too highly of himself.

See, the fact is, most of us start thinking CC is crap loooong before we ever get blown out. Had I any axe to grind, it would be with myself for hanging in year after year, when I could have been out having fun earning a living and not developing ulcers and major depression working for them under their seige-and-destroy mentality for as long as I did. I understand completely the business decision to eliminate my extra dollar an hour for The Colonel, and you have to realize that Fofo has to justify his decision by making me out to be a horrible person and a rotten jock. It's understandable, even predictable, but it's still pretty sad and he needs to let it go. It's his thing, and everybody knows it. We've all been there, every one of us who's been in the business. Any number of us on this board have found themselves in a position where you would have respected someone who said, "I'm eliminating your extra buck," but instead the guy chooses to be a chinstrap about it and tell you it's your fault. It's sad because it's so transparent of the abuses jocks have had to endure from PD geeks throughout the ages. Some things never change, you're just seeing Fofo's version of the drama in action. Notice how he reserves most of his posting on this board on personal attacks against me? There is, to my knowledge, only one person who ever worked with me who expressed that kind of disgust for me. That was the guy who decided to treat me like crap for a month so he could fire me. So, again, Dave, people can decide for themselves, and that's pretty much all I'll have to say about that.

As for the topic, I merely find it funny that every time someone uncovers a dollar bill that your Mays family has tucked away into another corporation, you guys get antsy and hostile. Since I've no experience working for Cox, Cumulus, or any of the other broadcasting companies in Houston, I can't speak to those topics on the board. However, it's well-known that just because the Mays brothers spin something off doesn't mean they stop being on the payroll. The Mays family are all officers of the LiveNation board of directors. That's a plain and simple fact. Why are you so angry that people can go read that?

 

[davideduardo]

As for the topic, I merely find it funny that every time someone uncovers a dollar bill that your Mays family has tucked away into another corporation, you guys get antsy and hostile. Since I've no experience working for Cox, Cumulus, or any of the other broadcasting companies in Houston, I can't speak to those topics on the board. However, it's well-known that just because the Mays brothers spin something off doesn't mean they stop being on the payroll. The Mays family are all officers of the LiveNation board of directors. That's a plain and simple fact. Why are you so angry that people can go read that?

As far as I can determine, the Mays family has no significant investment at present in Live Nation. Being on the board of directors does not require an investment, although it is sometimes rewarded with options or grants... which at this time, like most options in the US, are likely underwater and valueless.

Directors are compensated. That is normal for every company with directors in the country. But directors are not "on the payroll" nor are they employees of a company. In most cases, a percentage of outside directors is requred, and companies that find ratings like Morningstar important will know that stewardship is part of the rating... and that good stewardship requires outside directors.

 

[Fo-Fo-Fo-Hye]

Joanie, what's a chinstrap? I know you think I am Vince...nope my love. Just one of the people who used to hear you spouting your anti corporate blah blah in the halls. I for one was very happy the day they let you go. If you hated it so much, why didn't you just leave on your own accord? I mean seriously? I never understood people like you. You come in day after day and do nothing but talk about how much you hate it. As for me letting it go... trust me when I say this. I couldn't give a rip about you. I just see how you come in here with an agenda. Why not just go to rockaid.com and spew it there. At least then you'd be with the 5 other people who agree with everything you say. My little radiomojo , errrr... aunti... or we'll just say Joanie. Call yourself whatever you want, but the fact still remains that you can't let it go. You never had "numbers", so you chose to blame everyone.. programmers, Clear Channel, poor Fixx.. anyone who you could.. rather than just realizing that the times passed you somewhere along the way. Move on. If you hate it so much. I remember you saying that you'd have a gig in no time... or was it no gig in time. Whatever it is, I don't care. David does a good job for the company he works for.. as do I. Why? Because I wake up every single day and love what I do. Sorry that you didn't. Take a tissue on your way out. I don't reserve anything for you. Look through the history of your posts as aunti, radiomojo and as yourself. About 97% of them are anti Clear Channel. Look at mine. Only a few about you. Sure I like to come in here and mess with feeble minded people because it's entertaining. I also along the way make valid points that you choose to ignore. I don't care who I work for. I get paid well for what I do and I have fun every day and no.. I do not have any "corporate" people breathing down my neck. That word "corporate" just makes me laugh. It's an old hippie thing isn't it? Is that why I don't get it. The 60's are over... the hippies lost.. hahhaa, I love that line. But seriously. Do you shop at Wal-Mart, Target, ever eat fast food? They're "corporate"... or is your disdain for corporate... just the corporate people that fired you?

 

[aunti-terrestrial]

Wow. Aren't you just full of the bluebird of happiness? Whoever you are, you're a pretty good two-face in the hallways, because nobody I can recall gave off any sort of vibe until it became evident that I was the next on the chopping block. I know, that must be what it takes for people like you to survive. If so, you're pretty good at it, and welcome to it. I never go through many days where I feel such boiling hostility for someone I claim to care so little about.

As for your allegation that I ran Fixx down, that's a flat-out lie. Actually, if I ever bothered to peruse back through the posts, I would see that it was you and you alone who accused Fixx of lying to cover for me, somehow. If need be, I'm sure I can go back and find that for you.

Bless your heart, I wouldn't want to be whoever you are. I think you speak more clearly for the company you keep touting than anything else anybody could say about it, and it's pretty clear that you're seething with anger. However, I'll leave you with this tantalizing little hint about how a corporate business model runs an industry---several industries---into bargain-rate stock bailouts.

Remember this little gem? http://www.songsalive.org/articleclearchannel.html

While you're getting all mad about it and screaming that it's different somehow now because more stuff has been sold and spun off, we're going to go catch a movie. Cheers.