Northern New Jersey AM Oldies

[carlvanorden]

A few didn't get it...

> > Some people on the forum> > are too anxious to take any comment as an attack on their> > favorite station, favorite ideas, etc. They pounced on me> > because of a benign comment about signal strengths and> > then proceeded to call me names, disparage where I live,> > attribute to me things I never said, etc.> > Look back to the start of this thread, my friend, and you'll> clearly see who "pounced" on who. Your basic argument all> along has been "WMTR doesn't have a strong signal where I> live, therefore they don't have a strong signal, period." > Thus it is no surprise that your argument has been> discredited, based on the solid evidence of how strong> WMTR's signal is -- day and night -- in nearly every> direction except yours.> > So, you live in WMTR's null. And we all feel sorry for you> because of it. But what you fail to realize is that> compared to the substantial majority of WMTR's listening> audience, you are the exception to the rule. Therefore your> repeated attempts to characterize WMTR's signal as a whole> based upon your personal experience with it are foolishly> naive, obviously invalid, and quite annoying.> "MIKE F" is Mike Ferriola, the Chief Engineer of WMTR. Believe me he knows what he is doing:>>WMTR's signal was always one of the very best AM signals, period. Now, it is even better, and as I pointed out, WMTR does have a signal in it's null. Put it bluntly, if we picked up WMTR in it's entirety and plopped it down in IOWA, WMTR would cover half the state easily; it is a superior plant.Carl<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected], [email protected],[email protected]</P>

 

[carlvanorden]

> > > > > I'll Take Sour Puss For A Thousand Alex....> > > > > > > > > > > > > The answer: Who do YOU see when you look in a> > > > mirror? Did I get that right Vanna?> > > > > > > > > > Actually NO YOU DID NOT GET THAT ONE CORRECT. Mine was a> > > > JEOPARDY REFERENCE NOT a Wheel of Fortune one...LOL :-D> > > > > > > Think before you post there Tough Guy!!!> > > > > > Let's stop trying to focus on WMTR's signal blending> with> > > that Pittsburgh station and focus on what YOU actually> > were> > > talking about so perhaps in the future YOU don't look so> > > > foolish with a less-than-intelligent-remark!!> > > > > > LOL....Gee I Really Needed That Laugh!!> > > > > > Thanks Harold!! Enjoy the cheese with your Wine!!!> > > > > > > Jeopardy. Wheel of Fortune. Who cares? I don't> > spend my time watching mindless game shows. There> > are more interesting things to do with the time.> > I crown you Game Show Expert. I'm not. Shame.> > > > What I was talking about was that WMTR has a poor> > signal to the west. Only their sales department> > would tell you otherwise. I'm sorry you don't like> > the idea, but facts are facts.> > > > I like a nice glass of wine occasionally but please,> > I wouldn't want to take any of your cheese stash.> > Nibble away.> > > > I don't understand all this talk about WMTR having a poor> signal to the West. That isn't true. Here in Sussex County,> I get them during the day. Not a night usually. Even though> I didn't intend for this type of discussion, I'll jump in> anyway. Which AM oldies station in North NJ has the> strongest signal? I get 1500 WGHT, 1250 WMTR, and 1160 WVNJ> in Sussex County through the day. The Morris County stations> all come into Sussex County. Yes, the signal isn't as> strong, but it is listenable. > > Also, Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune are great shows and not> mindless!> It's not so much the power level as the directionality of the stations signals. WRNJ runs 2000 watts days omni, WNNJ runs 2000 watts days DA, WMTR runs 5000 watts days DA, WVNJ runs 20,000 watts days DA, WGHT runs 1000 watts days DA.<P ID="signature">______________
[email protected], [email protected],[email protected]</P>

 

[radiolover78]

Re: Harold just doesn't get it...

> > > Some people on the forum
> > > are too anxious to take any comment as an attack on
> their
> > > favorite station, favorite ideas, etc. They pounced on
> me
> > > because of a benign comment about signal strengths and
> > > then proceeded to call me names, disparage where I live,
>
> > > attribute to me things I never said, etc.
> >
> > Look back to the start of this thread, my friend, and
> you'll
> > clearly see who "pounced" on who. Your basic argument all
>
> > along has been "WMTR doesn't have a strong signal where I
> > live, therefore they don't have a strong signal, period."
>
> > Thus it is no surprise that your argument has been
> > discredited, based on the solid evidence of how strong
> > WMTR's signal is -- day and night -- in nearly every
> > direction except yours.
> >
> > So, you live in WMTR's null. And we all feel sorry for
> you
> > because of it. But what you fail to realize is that
> > compared to the substantial majority of WMTR's listening
> > audience, you are the exception to the rule. Therefore
> your
> > repeated attempts to characterize WMTR's signal as a whole
>
> > based upon your personal experience with it are foolishly
> > naive, obviously invalid, and quite annoying.
> >
>
> For those of you who haven't found it, here's my
> very first posting on this subject, the one that
> inflamed Kevin:
>
> "Strong signal? WMTR has an extremely poor signal to
> the west, where most of the geography of Morris County
> lies. At night the station disappears when you get to
> Denville."
>
> If this were baseball I'd remind Kevin that it's
> only a game. But he doesn't seem able to put things
> in perspective. He'll demean me and disparage my
> comments simply because he doesn't agree with them.
> Civil debate is not possible under those circumstances.
>
> Elsewhere I've freed Kevin from any responsibility
> for reading my posts. If he truly believes that my
> comments are naive, invalid, or whatever he doesn't
> have to reply to them. He can let other people look
> at them and get annoyed. However, I suspect that
> because he believes others will be influenced by
> my comments he feels an obligation to defend all the
> little radio stations in northern New Jersey.
>

I assume you are talking about me. Well, like I said, North Jersey radio isn't the best. But, there are some good broadcasters in the area. In fact, I was only commenting on a few of the on air announcers. Also, it is better to have some radio coverage than none. WSUS serves our area. Not the best programming, but it serves a good purpose. Something about you really rubs me the wrong way about you Harold. And all over WMTR's signal! ANd to mention me. I can defend "every little radio station" if I want.<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>

 

[Harold]

Re: A few didn't get it...

"Put it bluntly, if we picked up WMTR in it's entirety
and plopped it down in IOWA, WMTR would cover half the
state easily; it is a superior plant.Carl"

If that's true Carl then I presume WMTR comes in like
a local in Salem and Cumberland counties. Right?

No one has questioned the abilities of the chief at
WMTR. Indeed, if you go to his post you will see an
honest appraisal of the signal coverage area.

 

[Harold]

Re: #@%&*! just doesn't get it...

>
> Myself....OUT
>

Gee....I thought he'd never leave!!

I like that simulated foul language in the
subject line. Real classy.

 

[Harold]

Re: Harold just doesn't get it...

>
> Something
> about you really rubs me the wrong way about you Harold. And
> all over WMTR's signal!
>

Maybe it's because I don't agree with you. Knowing
others disagree and can present consistant, logical
arguments in their defense can be awfully frustrating.
I empathize with you. Being respectful of other
people's opinions is a good way to counter that feeling
you get...the one that rubs you the wrong way.

 

[Harold]

Re: Many posters doesn't get it...

> > For those of you who haven't found it, here's my
> > very first posting on this subject, the one that
> > inflamed Kevin:
> >
> > "Strong signal? WMTR has an extremely poor signal to
> > the west, where most of the geography of Morris County
> > lies. At night the station disappears when you get to
> > Denville."
>
> It inflamed me because YOU SAY THE SAME EXACT THING EVERY
> TIME SOMEONE MENTIONS WMTR.
>
> For the love of God, Harold... WE KNOW THAT ALREADY!
>

You want to give folks the impression that I constantly
discuss WMTR. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
But if you disagree I encourage you to provide evidence
of your claim. Dig up as many posts as you can in which
I disucss the signal coverage of WMTR. Not this thread,
of course. This one has been extended far beyond what it's
worth because some people feel impelled to defend WMTR
against even the mildest of criticisms.

But go ahead. We wait for your research.

 

[Harold]

> > > > > > I'll Take Sour Puss For A Thousand Alex....> > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The answer: Who do YOU see when you look
> in a> > > > mirror? Did I get that right Vanna?> > > > > >
> > > > > Actually NO YOU DID NOT GET THAT ONE CORRECT. Mine
> was a> > > > JEOPARDY REFERENCE NOT a Wheel of Fortune
> one...LOL :-D> > > > > > > Think before you post there
> Tough Guy!!!> > > > > > Let's stop trying to focus on WMTR's
> signal blending> with> > > that Pittsburgh station and focus
> on what YOU actually> > were> > > talking about so perhaps
> in the future YOU don't look so> > > > foolish with a
> less-than-intelligent-remark!!> > > > > > LOL....Gee I
> Really Needed That Laugh!!> > > > > > Thanks Harold!! Enjoy
> the cheese with your Wine!!!> > > > > > > Jeopardy. Wheel of
> Fortune. Who cares? I don't> > spend my time watching
> mindless game shows. There> > are more interesting things to
> do with the time.> > I crown you Game Show Expert. I'm not.
> Shame.> > > > What I was talking about was that WMTR has a
> poor> > signal to the west. Only their sales department> >
> would tell you otherwise. I'm sorry you don't like> > the
> idea, but facts are facts.> > > > I like a nice glass of
> wine occasionally but please,> > I wouldn't want to take any
> of your cheese stash.> > Nibble away.> > > > I don't
> understand all this talk about WMTR having a poor> signal to
> the West. That isn't true. Here in Sussex County,> I get
> them during the day. Not a night usually. Even though> I
> didn't intend for this type of discussion, I'll jump in>
> anyway. Which AM oldies station in North NJ has the>
> strongest signal? I get 1500 WGHT, 1250 WMTR, and 1160 WVNJ>
> in Sussex County through the day. The Morris County
> stations> all come into Sussex County. Yes, the signal isn't
> as> strong, but it is listenable. > > Also, Jeopardy and
> Wheel of Fortune are great shows and not> mindless!> It's
> not so much the power level as the directionality of the
> stations signals. WRNJ runs 2000 watts days omni, WNNJ runs
> 2000 watts days DA, WMTR runs 5000 watts days DA, WVNJ runs
> 20,000 watts days DA, WGHT runs 1000 watts days DA.
>

Carl:

Somewhere in there there's a comment, but I'll be
darned if I can find it. Doesn't WebTV do the
return-key character?

 

[Harold]

Re: Happy, Happy, Happy

> > By the way, see the post from Mike, who seems to have
> > reliable information about the signal coverage of WMTR.
> > He confirms that the station must create a null to
> > the west to protect a co-channel station in Pennsylvania.
>
> Even the big 50,000-watt New York City stations have nulls.
> This phenomenon is by no means unique to WMTR, and by no
> means does the presence of nulls in an AM station's signal
> pattern brand them as an "inferior" signal.
>

It does when the null is toward an area your
advertisers, or potential advertisers, would
like to reach.

Remember WRAN? It claimed to be a Morris County
station but couldn't reach Parsippany. It did
put a good signal into central New Jersey though.
I remember laughing when I saw a WRAN billboard
on a roadway in Old Bridge. Only the billboard
owner was happy.

 

[westlife]

Happy Nulls

> It does when the null is toward an area your
> advertisers, or potential advertisers, would
> like to reach.

Nulls are a fact of life on the AM band. For example, if you were a few counties to the south, I'm sure you would be bitching about 1260 WBUD's signal. WBUD has very deep nulls to the northeast and southwest, in order to protect the signals of 1250 WMTR and 1260 WAMS in Delaware. Likewise, WAMS has a null to protect WBUD's signal, and so on and so on, until you have all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle which is today's AM band.

But regardless of the technical aspects, your logic is faulty. Stations are put on the air to serve their CITY of license... not their COUNTY or STATE of license. WMTR is a Morristown station, and they serve that city perfectly well. Likewise, WBUD is a Trenton station, and they serve that city perfectly well. Any extra signal coverage beyond a station's city of license is simply an extra bonus, which cannot be either guaranteed to them or demanded from them -- as you always seem to be doing!

<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[westlife]

The Facts of Radio Life

> This one has been extended far beyond what it's
> worth because some people feel impelled to defend WMTR
> against even the mildest of criticisms.

"Criticism" implies that the writer has some sort of knowledge regarding the basic facts of life concerning terrestrial radio broadcasting. In your case, you make it seem like you do not!

I could "criticize" a Philadelphia station for not putting a strong signal into downtown Manhattan, but that would make me look like a fool, because Philadelphia stations are not intended to cover New York. That doesn't make them "inferior"; it simply is one of the consequences of how radio stations are licensed to serve their city of license and the immediate surrounding areas.

If you want perfect reception of your favorite radio programming no matter where you are, get XM or Sirius!

<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[Harold]

Re: Happy Nulls

> > It does when the null is toward an area your
> > advertisers, or potential advertisers, would
> > like to reach.
>
> Nulls are a fact of life on the AM band. For example, if
> you were a few counties to the south, I'm sure you would be
> bitching about 1260 WBUD's signal. WBUD has very deep nulls
> to the northeast and southwest, in order to protect the
> signals of 1250 WMTR and 1260 WAMS in Delaware. Likewise,
> WAMS has a null to protect WBUD's signal, and so on and so
> on, until you have all the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle which
> is today's AM band.
>
> But regardless of the technical aspects, your logic is
> faulty. Stations are put on the air to serve their CITY of
> license... not their COUNTY or STATE of license. WMTR is a
> Morristown station, and they serve that city perfectly well.
> Likewise, WBUD is a Trenton station, and they serve that
> city perfectly well. Any extra signal coverage beyond a
> station's city of license is simply an extra bonus, which
> cannot be either guaranteed to them or demanded from them --
> as you always seem to be doing!
>

Poppy (BLEEP)!!!

First of all, I have never spoken of WBUD nor will I. The
station is well outside my area and I couldn't care less
about it. It's YOU who bring up that strawman. It's YOU
who is BITCHING about the most trivial of comments. It's
you are are unrestained in your comments and responses. It's
you who said you were "OUT" yet you keep coming back. The
Energizer Bunny has nothing on you!!

Secondly, it is ridiculous beyond description to suggest
that the FCC licenses stations to serve only the actual
"city of license." The correct term nowadays is "community
of license." (Aren't you the one who says he owns a radio
station? Is it a real station or a Part 15 thingee? If it's
the former, you should be aware of what your service
requirements are.) The change connotes the broadening of what
constitutes the area that must be served by a broadcast
station. Do you really believe that WMTR was licensed
to serve only the town of Morristown? If that were the
case, the station could get by with less than 100 watts.
Morristown is not geographically large. Morris County is.
I have been listening to WMTR for a very long time and
they have ALWAYS viewed it as their responsibility to
serve Morris County. Don't believe me? Ask the people at
WMTR. Better yet, listen to them...if you can hear them.

Oh yes...Speaking of signal coverage, have a look at this
document on file with the FCC. It shows the electric field
strength as predicted at one kilometer. While predictions
don't show actual coverage, it does show that the WMTR
signal strongly favors the east over the west. Adding to
the pattern distributed by the array is the topography
in the western direction. It's a bit more challenging
for signal coverage than that found to the east of the
Hanover transmitter site.

PDFs are my favorite. Enjoy this one.

http://www.fcc.gov/ftp/Bureaus/MB/Databases/AM_DA_patterns/1004445-86792.pdf

 

[Harold]

Re: The Facts of Radio Life

> > This one has been extended far beyond what it's
> > worth because some people feel impelled to defend WMTR
> > against even the mildest of criticisms.
>
> "Criticism" implies that the writer has some sort of
> knowledge regarding the basic facts of life concerning
> terrestrial radio broadcasting. In your case, you make it
> seem like you do not!
>
> I could "criticize" a Philadelphia station for not putting a
> strong signal into downtown Manhattan, but that would make
> me look like a fool, because Philadelphia stations are not
> intended to cover New York. That doesn't make them
> "inferior"; it simply is one of the consequences of how
> radio stations are licensed to serve their city of license
> and the immediate surrounding areas.
>
> If you want perfect reception of your favorite radio
> programming no matter where you are, get XM or Sirius!
>

Come now. You're going to embarrass yourself. I think anyone
reading this thread can see I know something about terrestrial
broadcasting. A lifetime as an afficianado as well as a
career in the business hasn't left me without some knowledge.
My Smith Chart can beat your Smith Chart any day!!

No, I don't criticize Philadelphia stations. I can hear
a few of them but they don't come in strong and it is
infrequently that I listen...except when I'm in southern
New Jersey or on the other side of the river.

While Philadelphia stations are not expected to serve a
New York audience, I think WMTR feels an obligation to
residents of Chatham and Parsippany. Again, ring up the
station and ask them. Or get that Superradio III back,
put it next to your Select-A-Tenna, adjust the aluminum
foil, reposition the coat hanger, and groove with the
senior citizens to the sounds of 1955.

P.S. I don't listen to music alot on the radio. Mostly
talk and news.

 

[westlife]

Re: Happy Nulls

> you who said you were "OUT" yet you keep coming back. The
> Energizer Bunny has nothing on you!!

If you are going to childishly insult someone, at least make sure you're insulting the right person. In this case, you did not.

> the WMTR signal strongly favors the east over the west.

Exactly as it should! Radio stations are created to serve humans, not cows.
If and when there is a large metropolitan area to the west of WMTR's transmitter site, then maybe your arguments against them would have some merit. Until then, you're just blowing smoke into the wind.

<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[westlife]

Re: The Facts of Radio Life

> While Philadelphia stations are not expected to serve a
> New York audience, I think WMTR feels an obligation to
> residents of Chatham and Parsippany. Again, ring up the
> station and ask them.

Are you dumb, or just plain ignorant? As it was clearly explained here numerous times, WMTR just rebuilt their entire transmission facility. Their signal is the best it's ever gonna get, unless they buy out all the neighboring stations and take them off the air.

So, you've just wasted an entire thread complaining about a problem to which there is no reasonable solution. Are you happy now?
<P ID="signature">______________

</P>

 

[Harold]

Re: The Facts of Radio Life

> > While Philadelphia stations are not expected to serve a
> > New York audience, I think WMTR feels an obligation to
> > residents of Chatham and Parsippany. Again, ring up the
> > station and ask them.
>
> Are you dumb, or just plain ignorant? As it was clearly
> explained here numerous times, WMTR just rebuilt their
> entire transmission facility. Their signal is the best it's
> ever gonna get, unless they buy out all the neighboring
> stations and take them off the air.
>
> So, you've just wasted an entire thread complaining about a
> problem to which there is no reasonable solution. Are you
> happy now?
>

I'm glad you finally concede that WMTR does not have a
strong signal to the west. If you hadn't assaulted my
benign comment at the beginning of this thread you wouldn't
have had to go through the emotional torment that is
defending the indefensible.

It would have helped if you read the posts more carefully
so as to understand what I wrote. It would have helped too
if you could have restrained yourself from levelling insults
against me. Oh...In answer to your question...No, I an neither
dumb nor, on this question, ignorant. A review of my posts will
illustrate that for those willing to read carefully.

Have a nice day.

 

[Harold]

Re: Happy Nulls

> > you who said you were "OUT" yet you keep coming back. The
> > Energizer Bunny has nothing on you!!
>
> If you are going to childishly insult someone, at least make
> sure you're insulting the right person. In this case, you
> did not.
>
> > the WMTR signal strongly favors the east over the west.
>
> Exactly as it should! Radio stations are created to serve
> humans, not cows.
> If and when there is a large metropolitan area to the west
> of WMTR's transmitter site, then maybe your arguments
> against them would have some merit. Until then, you're just
> blowing smoke into the wind.
>

You really don't live anywhere near northwestern New Jersey,
do you? Your comments show a disdain for people you don't
even know. People in Morris Township, Randolph, Roxbury,
Washington Township, Dover, Wharton, Jefferson, Mount Olive,
Rockaway Borough, Rockaway Township, Denville, Mine Hill,
and Netcong are not cows. So let's take a look at the region.

The population of Morris County is growing rapidly. But
in the 2000 census it numbered 470,212. Now look at the
population that is West of the WMTR transmitter...219,890!!!
Now that's almost half the total population of the county!!
And unlike the older communities in the east, the western
side of the county is growing fast. I would suspect that
now..five years from the last census..that fully half the
total population lives to the west of WMTR. (I haven't
counted the contiguous areas of Warren and Sussex counties,
also places growing quickly.

Your "cow" comments don't bother me. But if you insist on
making them, be my guest. Those in the know don't care.
And sorry the facts don't back you up, but that's the way
the cookie crumbles.

 

[radiolover78]

Populations

> > > you who said you were "OUT" yet you keep coming back.
> The
> > > Energizer Bunny has nothing on you!!
> >
> > If you are going to childishly insult someone, at least
> make
> > sure you're insulting the right person. In this case, you
>
> > did not.
> >
> > > the WMTR signal strongly favors the east over the west.
> >
> > Exactly as it should! Radio stations are created to serve
>
> > humans, not cows.
> > If and when there is a large metropolitan area to the west
>
> > of WMTR's transmitter site, then maybe your arguments
> > against them would have some merit. Until then, you're
> just
> > blowing smoke into the wind.
> >
>
> You really don't live anywhere near northwestern New Jersey,
>
> do you? Your comments show a disdain for people you don't
> even know. People in Morris Township, Randolph, Roxbury,
> Washington Township, Dover, Wharton, Jefferson, Mount Olive,
>
> Rockaway Borough, Rockaway Township, Denville, Mine Hill,
> and Netcong are not cows. So let's take a look at the
> region.
>
> The population of Morris County is growing rapidly. But
> in the 2000 census it numbered 470,212. Now look at the
> population that is West of the WMTR transmitter...219,890!!!
>
> Now that's almost half the total population of the county!!
> And unlike the older communities in the east, the western
> side of the county is growing fast. I would suspect that
> now..five years from the last census..that fully half the
> total population lives to the west of WMTR. (I haven't
> counted the contiguous areas of Warren and Sussex counties,
> also places growing quickly.
>
> Your "cow" comments don't bother me. But if you insist on
> making them, be my guest. Those in the know don't care.
> And sorry the facts don't back you up, but that's the way
> the cookie crumbles.
>

You are correct about the population growing to the West. In Sussex County, the 2004 approximate population was 152,218. Before we know it, the rural areas of the West will be becoming more like suburbs.
<P ID="signature">______________
Kevin</P>

 

[mcmannors]

Re: Happy Nulls

>>The population of Morris County is growing rapidly. But in the 2000 census it numbered 470,212. Now look at the population that is West of the WMTR transmitter...219,890!!! Now that's almost half the total population of the county!! And unlike the older communities in the east, the western side of the county is growing fast.<<

Ok, but let's not overlook the fact that even if 15 million people lived in Western Morris County, there would still be a null out that way due to the other stations that WMTR has to protect. So, all this talk about the growing population is useless anyway.

BTW, I'm not sure if this has been brought up yet, but theoretically, could WMTR move their towers west to around the Netcong area, and still be directional east from there without interfering with WBUD, WEAE, and whomever else they are protecting? Just curious.

 

[Harold]

Re: Happy Nulls

> >>The population of Morris County is growing rapidly. But
> in the 2000 census it numbered 470,212. Now look at the
> population that is West of the WMTR transmitter...219,890!!!
> Now that's almost half the total population of the county!!
> And unlike the older communities in the east, the western
> side of the county is growing fast.
>


The comments by me about the population in western Morris
County were in response to someone who has been laboring
under the false idea that that area is devoid of anything
but cows. I wouldn't be too hard on him though. I get the
impression that he really isn't familiar with Morris
County. I got into a debate a couple of years ago with
two types who would have had us believe they knew what
was best for northern New Jersey. One of them turned out
to be someone who never lived in New Jersey and was
currently esconced in the far western suburbs of Philadelphia.
Go figga.

I don't know if the FCC would allow WMTR to relocate the
transmitter to Netcong. But a variety of other factors
would mitigate against it. Like the cost of acquiring a
new location and, most importantly, the quality of the
site, such as subsurface conductivity. I'm not aware of
too much swampy area around Netcong outside of the immediate
vicinity of the lake. And that's all built up. The western part of
the county could use a radio station or two. There are
some applications outstanding in Chester, Jefferson, Dover,
etc. but they're in the educational band and I think the
applicants are religious organizations. Not too much fun
programming there for us rock 'n roll types.