Nov 6+..and still no WOW!

[landtuna]

You were someone who occasionally listened to the station when it was the Oasis. I seem to recall you saying you liked it then. How does this approach compare?

I remember listening to KYOT (Coyote, 95.5) when it was Smooth Jazz but not anything called the Oasis. I've been listening to 92.7 ever since KOOL went up in smoke several years ago. When KOOL dropped Oldies/Classic Hits and their on-air talent they abandoned me.

Also the criticism of the commercials hasn't been the length of the break, but the content of the advertising, and the repetition within the hour. Do you agree?

I think you may have me confused with someone else. I have always complained about the length of commercial breaks. I remember criticizing the content of TV commercials but not radio. My current "favorite" are the recent GM "I Love It" commercials which run hundreds of times per day and say virtually nothing about the product.

 

[landtuna]

P.S. I noticed Radio-Locater has no listing for 94.9 and I was not even aware of it until I tried listening to 95.1 and it was mentioned on air.

I agree with others that some advertising is required if either of these stations has a chance of success.

 

[Delete My Account]

A "higher qualitative audience" won't listen to commercials.

But they do, via underwriting. It's how you present it.

 

[TheBigA]

But they do, via underwriting. It's how you present it.

You agree they're two very different things?

 

[TheBigA]

I think you may have me confused with someone else.

My comment about the criticism of the commercials was based on what others here have said, not you. Which is why I asked if you agree.

Specifically about the content of the commercials and the repetition within the hour.

 

[EricStein]

Also the criticism of the commercials hasn't been the length of the break, but the content of the advertising, and the repetition within the hour. Do you agree?

I know you're replying to landtuna but I agree with you right here. The only commercials I seem to hear on Wow are that Alaskan A/C with the annoying "license jingle" and a couple products being peddled by Big Tobacco. The latter are just taking advantages of loopholes thanks to technological advances since the tobacco advertising ban went into effect in the early '70s for cigarettes and other tobacco products in the late '80s. Commercials are an irritation, but BAD commercials are a turnoff. I think asugeorge1 and I can attest to that being KQFN listeners and them plowing ineffective and irritating "per-inquiry" ads into the ground.

 

[Delete My Account]

My point is, you can advertise to those lucrative demos. It's a matter of tone and presentation. Underwriting is bought on stations like The Current because they want to sell products, services, or brand their business so people are aware of it. It may not have "calls to action" but it's still advertising.

 

[davideduardo]

My point is, you can advertise to those lucrative demos. It's a matter of tone and presentation. Underwriting is bought on stations like The Current because they want to sell products, services, or brand their business so people are aware of it. It may not have "calls to action" but it's still advertising.

For advertisers in general, persons over 55 are not a "lucrative demo".

As has been said over and over, seniors have a lifetime of well-established buying patterns and opinions on brands and products. Habits have been formed, and skepticism towards hyperbole in advertising exists.

To overcome those barriers, it takes more advertising and promotion. The cost of doing that is often greater than the profit on sales in those age groups.

This is not an issue of writing better copy (although that is a general issue of some significance for all ages). Seniors tend to have well defined opinions, and changing them... whether about a political candidate or a toothpaste... is hard.

Example: I have been a loyal driver of one particular car marque for nearly two decades. I'm seriously considering changing upon my next purchase, though. The reasons are that there are several other comparable vehicles that rank as well in Consumer Reports, my current dealer is a 50 minute drive away, and the dealer has raised prices on service considerably. I've been thinking about this for a year, and will likely wait another year before making the decision. I'm a senior and I have the time, I am not in a rush, and I am able to access lots of data online to make the best final pick. Advertising did not play a part in this at all; it's wasted on me.

 

[TheBigA]

My point is, you can advertise to those lucrative demos. It's a matter of tone and presentation.

That "tone and presentation" is done in non-commercial radio. They won't be doing that at KOAI.

In addition to underwriting announcements, non-commercial stations also engage in on-air fundraising. That usually annoys older demos.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

My point is, you can advertise to those lucrative demos. It's a matter of tone and presentation. Underwriting is bought on stations like The Current because they want to sell products, services, or brand their business so people are aware of it. It may not have "calls to action" but it's still advertising.

And demos are still a problem.

Demos are a big reason that public radio moved away from classical and jazz programming in a big way from roughly 2009 to 2014. The audience became quite old, and that both reduces your donor pool (72 year old Bill and Sally are less likely to donate on a fixed income) and reduces your possibilities for selling underwriting.

 

[Delete My Account]

A "higher qualitative audience" won't listen to commercials.

This is the point I'm referring to. I hold that they do listen to commercials, presented as something other than typical commercials. As to how it relates to KOAI, maybe the tone and style of the commercials are a part of what makes the station less appealing.

This discussion started out regarding WoW Factor and a commercial radio station that's NOT Triple A or attempting to do something high brow. So my question then becomes, are we sure that a 55+ consumer in 2019 behaves the same as older audiences of previous generations?

Not to completely confuse this conversation, but I've been amazed at how many older music lovers listen to stations like the Current that are regarded as "indie" and contemporary. If that's the case then maybe advertisers have misconceptions about what these demos think and do in modern times.

 

[landtuna]

The audience became quite old, and that both reduces your donor pool (72 year old Bill and Sally are less likely to donate on a fixed income) and reduces your possibilities for selling underwriting.

Is that an anecdotal opinion or is it backed up by historical documentation?

I say that because it appears to me that donating, in general, is primarily a function of the older generations and also in this day and age we seniors are much more likely to have discretionary financials to be able to donate to our favorite causes.

 

[TheBigA]

So my question then becomes, are we sure that a 55+ consumer in 2019 behaves the same as older audiences of previous generations?

Like any group, over 55s don't behave monolithically. Some want to hear music of their youth. Some want to hear current music that is age-correct for their lifestyle now. Two different styles of music for two different groups of people, all of the same age. Actually the same person may be interested in both. Or none of the above. This isn't all that unusual. The methods of funding that music are equally varied. Radio stations today operate with fractions of demographics. No one gets 100%.

 

[johndavis]

That pretty much describes the format in one sentence!

The last time I heard a format this polarizing, I was trying to schedule music on the rhythm & rock KYOT to appease the whackadoodle tastes of Michael D Jorgenson.

The irony is that when we killed that station off, for its last month I was ripping off John Sebastian's playlist at KSLX, as he had just taken it over. If he was playing 750 titles, I was playing 500 of them. The only time KYOT's numbers went up before Smooth Jazz was after the decision was made to go jazz and we decided to go at John's throat because my boss, Jim Trapp, had a score to settle. All I did was take all the titles Sebastian was playing in a 2 day span and put them on repeat over at 95.5. (Who needs Mediabase when you have a radio and a legal pad?) Once we stopped trying to be obscure we got traction.

If there's anything I learned working at Sundance Broadcasting is despite what hobbyists say on these boards (or on the boards that cater to internet radio broadcasters), a 3000 song library is really hard to listen to because it's always going to be playing somebody else's favorite song. We could afford to screw around at KZON because we had no debt. It wasn't until Jorgy bought Edens and he had a note to pay back when we had to start making those stations perform. In today's radio, no owner will have an infinite amount of patience.

I know that John said he did AMTs on this library back when he was trying to get someone to bite on the format. But did he have all of the songs tested at once? I'd love to see a Broadcast Architecture-style dial study on a typical hour.

 

[johndavis]

Is that an anecdotal opinion or is it backed up by historical documentation?

I say that because it appears to me that donating, in general, is primarily a function of the older generations and also in this day and age we seniors are much more likely to have discretionary financials to be able to donate to our favorite causes.

It's very much based on data.

I recall talking to the GM of my public radio station before he got rid of the classical programming for all NPR news/talk. He estimated he was missing out on a million dollars in underwriting a year with classical music in middays and nights.

NPR News/Talk also skews old, but it bills more than classical.

 

[CTListener]

It's very much based on data.

I recall talking to the GM of my public radio station before he got rid of the classical programming for all NPR news/talk. He estimated he was missing out on a million dollars in underwriting a year with classical music in middays and nights.

NPR News/Talk also skews old, but it bills more than classical.

Are there geographical differences in support of classical? I say this because here in Connecticut I can listen to one full-time classical station (WMNR Monroe/WGRS Guilford and translators), and locally hosted midday/syndicated overnight classical music on WSHU Fairfield and WFCR Amherst, Mass., along with three hours of Peter Van De Graaf's Beethoven Network classical sandwiched between soft oldies on the Catholic Archdiocese's WJMJ Hartford from 9 to midnight daily. And Vermont has an entire separate VPR statewide network -- with several strong signals -- devoted to classical music with a combination of local and syndicated programming. They've all been playing classical music for a long time, so the underwriters must be there, right?

 

[johndavis]

Are there geographical differences in support of classical? I say this because here in Connecticut I can listen to one full-time classical station (WMNR Monroe/WGRS Guilford and translators), and locally hosted midday/syndicated overnight classical music on WSHU Fairfield and WFCR Amherst, Mass., along with three hours of Peter Van De Graaf's Beethoven Network classical sandwiched between soft oldies on the Catholic Archdiocese's WJMJ Hartford from 9 to midnight daily. And Vermont has an entire separate VPR statewide network -- with several strong signals -- devoted to classical music with a combination of local and syndicated programming. They've all been playing classical music for a long time, so the underwriters must be there, right?

In general, when a public radio operator has both NPR news and classical networks, the classical programming is mostly translators and lesser signals. If there are two signals covering the same area, the bigger of the two gets the news because that makes more money. That's the case in Vermont; just look at the coverage maps: https://www.vpr.org/radio-stations-coverage-maps

There are more stations looking to find ways to shed their classical programming than add it in general. Stations that keep their programming usually come down to some combination of:
(a) sufficient financial support
(b) a community mandate (there would be a big political mess if they dropped it)
(c) other programming that might do better is airing somewhere else in the market

As far as Phoenix is concerned, KBAQ isn't going anywhere; it's well supported.

 

[johndavis]

Radio stations today operate with fractions of demographics. No one gets 100%.

Face it, even in the "good old days" (whatever that means) we always had a narrow bullseye focused somewhere inside the target demo.

About the only real difference I see between now and 30 years ago is we're more likely to play the same songs 24/7 now whereas before we might have dayparted for the workday.

 

[TheBigA]

About the only real difference I see between now and 30 years ago is we're more likely to play the same songs 24/7 now whereas before we might have dayparted for the workday.

Actually when I look at Mediabase, I see a lot of dayparting of songs. Very common to see some lower charting songs only getting spins between 7PM and 6AM.

 

[landtuna]

Like any group, over 55s don't behave monolithically. Some want to hear music of their youth. Some want to hear current music that is age-correct for their lifestyle now. Two different styles of music for two different groups of people, all of the same age. Actually the same person may be interested in both. Or none of the above. This isn't all that unusual. The methods of funding that music are equally varied. Radio stations today operate with fractions of demographics. No one gets 100%.

Just for grins, what would "age appropriate" music be for a 70-year old in this day and age?