Nov 6+..and still no WOW!

[KeithE4]

Just for grins, what would "age appropriate" music be for a 70-year old in this day and age?

Guy Lombardo, Lawrence Welk, and Liberace.

Seriously, I would think 1955-70, or Elvis through The Beatles (and similar artists of their eras), with some blues-rock & early metal/psychedellia (Cream, Traffic, Led Zeppelin, etc) thrown in.

 

[TheBigA]

Just for grins, what would "age appropriate" music be for a 70-year old in this day and age?

New music created by people of that age. Just because they're not in the charts doesn't mean they're not still making new music. We've mentioned the AAA format, and anything played there is likely to appeal to someone over 65.

 

[CTListener]

In general, when a public radio operator has both NPR news and classical networks, the classical programming is mostly translators and lesser signals. If there are two signals covering the same area, the bigger of the two gets the news because that makes more money. That's the case in Vermont; just look at the coverage maps: https://www.vpr.org/radio-stations-coverage-maps

There are more stations looking to find ways to shed their classical programming than add it in general. Stations that keep their programming usually come down to some combination of:
(a) sufficient financial support
(b) a community mandate (there would be a big political mess if they dropped it)
(c) other programming that might do better is airing somewhere else in the market.

In WSHU's case, the news/talk (other than Morning Edition, All Things Considered and certain weekend shows) is on a weaker AM signal, translators and HD. I'd imagine that's likely because Connecticut Public Radio is all news/talk and has a network that covers the state well. WFCR is a puzzler, though. Its news/talk counterpart is also an AM -- WNNZ -- and a network of secondary FM signals and translators around western New England. I guess it gets a lot of financial support due to the lively cultural scene and all the prestigious colleges of its coverage area.

I didn't realize that VPR Classical doesn't cover St. Johnsbury at all. I'm most familiar with its strong presence on the dial from Norwich south and west.

 

[johndavis]

This discussion started out regarding WoW Factor and a commercial radio station that's NOT Triple A or attempting to do something high brow. So my question then becomes, are we sure that a 55+ consumer in 2019 behaves the same as older audiences of previous generations?

I keep coming back to the Nostalgia formats that were prevalent in the 80s and 90s. I know them well because my parents listened to them extensively long before I was keeping the needles moving at KOY.

If you talked to a KOY listener, the conversation started with how they would turn the station on in every room of their house when they woke up and keep it on until they went to bed. If you looked at the diaries, you saw the same pattern - the TSL was huge because they reported it that way.

They'd also tell you how they hated rock & roll and liked us because we didn't play anything like that.

Think back to the beginnings of the AC format. Up until "lite" became a perjorative, ACs basically branded themselves by saying "we won't hurt your sensitive ears with the music your kids listen to."

Those listeners haven't just greyed out of this demo, they've returned to dust.

If the assumption is that today's 55+ consumer is going to lock KOAI in and rip off the knob, the difference is the target audience can get plenty of songs that they like on several other stations on the dial, and many of them are on signals that come in better than either the rimshot or its translator. But even if you put this on a 100kW South Mountain stick, you're going to be at best the station that you punch into when someone else is in commercial.

Then we get to the part about meters vs diaries...

 

[johndavis]

Actually when I look at Mediabase, I see a lot of dayparting of songs. Very common to see some lower charting songs only getting spins between 7PM and 6AM.

Nights and overnights is the new paper add.

 

[PTBoardOp94]

Are there geographical differences in support of classical?

Yes. The Northeast has the highest support of "fine arts" organizations of any section of the country, according to an Indiana University study published under the title "Generosity for Life". It seems logical to suggest that if someone will donate to an orchestra or a school of music that they also might donate to classical radio.

I recall talking to the GM of my public radio station before he got rid of the classical programming for all NPR news/talk. He estimated he was missing out on a million dollars in underwriting a year with classical music in middays and nights.

And a data point... in 2009, a study was undertaken by Walrus Research of the classical audience. Only 47% were still in the work force, and the median age was 65. The classical audience had aged 7 years since 1999 -- meaning that few younger folks were joining the ranks of classical radio listeners.
That study did not cover donations. To landtuna's point about data or anecdotal, I have not seen a formal study of the willingness of donors to give to public radio against their age, so that association is anecdotal, based on things I have heard from public radio development staff.

It's probably not be the case that retirees suddenly stop donating at age 65, but many seniors do eventually reach a place where their nest egg has run out.

 

[asugeorge1]

As far as Phoenix is concerned, KBAQ isn't going anywhere; it's well supported.

And KBAQ has a really good signal on 89.5 FM. KBAQ is definitely not signal limited for a classical music station. https://radio-locator.com/cgi-bin/pat?call=KBAQ&service=FM

As far as the demos go, I sometimes turn on KBAQ when driving or at work as background noise because it is relaxing, they have no commercials and the HD signal makes the classical music sound excellent on KBAQ. We really do have a good classical music station in Phoenix!

 

[Billkex]

Guy Lombardo, Lawrence Welk, and Liberace.

Seriously, I would think 1955-70, or Elvis through The Beatles (and similar artists of their eras), with some blues-rock & early metal/psychedellia (Cream, Traffic, Led Zeppelin, etc) thrown in.

I like KSLX, but it's the same "classic rock" songs over & over.
A 50s to early 70s station is worth a try. I know many people under 70, ...even under 35, that like hearing/experiencing music from the pre-"classic rock" era. (it's new to them)

Agreed, I think the name "The Wow factor" is stupid. But I like the mix/variety. I can do without any Sinatra, Terry Jacks, songs like Don McLean's "Starry starry night" or any other sleepy crap.
It seems like most of the FM radio stations in the valley are all alike "We play more 80s!"
I am TIRED of hearing the same "top 10" 1980s songs over & over again.

I prefer to hear a variety of older stuff mixed with other stuff.


If you were handed an FM radio station to program music, what would you try?

 

[landtuna]

Guy Lombardo, Lawrence Welk, and Liberace.

Seriously, I would think 1955-70, or Elvis through The Beatles (and similar artists of their eras), with some blues-rock & early metal/psychedellia (Cream, Traffic, Led Zeppelin, etc) thrown in.

Lombardo? Welk? Liberace? Those are my parent's musical acts. The only time I have ever listened to any of them is when they played on the Ed Sullivan Show back in the late 50's. My mother wouldn't let my father watch Liberace on TV for fear he'd throw something at the screen. Almost the same for Welk except for that accordion guy with the big teeth.

55-70 is much more realistic although I think you stopped too short. Most of my peers like another decade or two tacked onto their favs. Once the dirtbag....er, grunge actors stunk up the joint most of us abandoned Top 40 radio and went to other genres or stuck with Oldies/Classic Hits/Classic Rock. People in their late 70's began with the end of Big Band and Doo Wop and even those of us who came later seem to like an occasional blast of the WWII music. Our crooners were Johnny Mathis and Pat Boone instead of Frank Sinatra and Don Cornell. I noticed when I moved back to Noo Yawk Sity in 1970 that crooners were still popular there but I never heard about any of them among my peers except for their Christmas albums (Mathis was still huge!) Personally, I miss The Platters.

And remember, you are talking about the "Vietnam generation" who values the late 60's and early 70's much as the vets back from WWII loved the Big Bands and their vocalists. We may have hated serving in the war but it makes an indelible mark upon most.

These are my personal recollections and opinions of course and impossible to put an entire generation (or decade) into one generality but I'm using my own parents as well as those of a whole host of friend's parents of my youth as examples. Something else might be at work here as well:

When my parent's generation grew up they either had no access to music via the radio or the radio was a huge box in the living room and listening to it had to be done with the whole family. Teens of all ages (probably since Roman times) do not like their personal space invaded by family. My generation was the first to have portable music available in the form of the ubiquitous transistor radio which meant we had a portable personal space for listening and, hence, could listen to anything without being ridiculed or monitored by our parents (or anyone else). This may have done as much to allow us a greater personal choice of music than those that came before with their social handcuffs.

None of the above applies to people who grew up with Country/Bluegrass/Classical/Jazz/Gospel or, for lack of a better term, Mexican music. Those tended to be cultural immersion. The Typical American Kid (TAK) could choose his/her own music generally whereas those other genre's were locked in from childbirth.

 

[landtuna]

New music created by people of that age. Just because they're not in the charts doesn't mean they're not still making new music. We've mentioned the AAA format, and anything played there is likely to appeal to someone over 65.

You will say I am the exception but:

I just examined the 50 most popular AAA artists and songs and found:

1. I recognized only three artists out of 50.
2. Could remember hearing only 2-3 songs by any of them.
3. Do not currently own any music from all of them.

Virtually none of the music I own today is currently on any chart unless there is something called "Old Gold", "Prehistoric Oldies", or "Long Forgotten Gems" etc.

Well, perhaps with the exception of a Beatles tune or two.......

 

[landtuna]

I keep coming back to the Nostalgia formats that were prevalent in the 80s and 90s. I know them well because my parents listened to them extensively long before I was keeping the needles moving at KOY.

If you talked to a KOY listener, the conversation started with how they would turn the station on in every room of their house when they woke up and keep it on until they went to bed. If you looked at the diaries, you saw the same pattern - the TSL was huge because they reported it that way.

They'd also tell you how they hated rock & roll and liked us because we didn't play anything like that.

Think back to the beginnings of the AC format. Up until "lite" became a perjorative, ACs basically branded themselves by saying "we won't hurt your sensitive ears with the music your kids listen to."

Those listeners haven't just greyed out of this demo, they've returned to dust.

If the assumption is that today's 55+ consumer is going to lock KOAI in and rip off the knob, the difference is the target audience can get plenty of songs that they like on several other stations on the dial, and many of them are on signals that come in better than either the rimshot or its translator. But even if you put this on a 100kW South Mountain stick, you're going to be at best the station that you punch into when someone else is in commercial.

Then we get to the part about meters vs diaries...

Not all of us have turned to dust. Back in the mid to late 70's the admin in our office kept her radio on KOY all day long and we (programmers) shortly had it listed as our favorite - particularly when Bill Heywood was on air. You could tell when he cracked a joke by all the keyboards going silent until the punch line was uttered. GAWD how we loved that guy. If KOY still had that same DJ crew and lived on 550 I would still be listening (and would have ripped the tuner button off my radio long, long ago).

The music was incidental because it was, after all, an office environment so you could not have KUPD, KRUX or even KOPA blasting away. KOY was a perfect background solution.

I've now listened for a bit over 8 hours to KCON/KOAI and find their playlist a hair off what I would call desirable. Too many unknowns (for me), too much Country (Garth Brooks has never been a crossover that I know of), a complete absence of the softer female singers and too much hard rock. It needs to lighten up and include some 50's stuff to be appealing to me.

 

[TheBigA]

Virtually none of the music I own today is currently on any chart unless there is something called "Old Gold", "Prehistoric Oldies", or "Long Forgotten Gems" etc.

As I said in the previous post, there is no one size that fits all. No format gets 100%. It's all about fractions.

 

[TheBigA]

I prefer to hear a variety of older stuff mixed with other stuff.

That's why the car radio has pre-sets. You make your own playlist by changing stations. Most people cycle around 5 different stations. You do that, and you'll never hear the same songs twice. You may hear something you've never heard before that you really like. That happens to me a lot.

 

[asugeorge1]

Not all of us have turned to dust. Back in the mid to late 70's the admin in our office kept her radio on KOY all day long and we (programmers) shortly had it listed as our favorite - particularly when Bill Heywood was on air. You could tell when he cracked a joke by all the keyboards going silent until the punch line was uttered. GAWD how we loved that guy. If KOY still had that same DJ crew and lived on 550 I would still be listening (and would have ripped the tuner button off my radio long, long ago).

The music was incidental because it was, after all, an office environment so you could not have KUPD, KRUX or even KOPA blasting away. KOY was a perfect background solution.

I've now listened for a bit over 8 hours to KCON/KOAI and find their playlist a hair off what I would call desirable. Too many unknowns (for me), too much Country (Garth Brooks has never been a crossover that I know of), a complete absence of the softer female singers and too much hard rock. It needs to lighten up and include some 50's stuff to be appealing to me.

And that’s what I want as well, none of that Garth Brooks country stuff and maybe some 50’s mixed in. That would be more appealing to the “target demographic” for the station. That’s probably why most of the “target demographic” the WOW! Factor is going after listens to Oldies 92.7 even though they are on a weaker frequency.

 

[landtuna]

It's probably not be the case that retirees suddenly stop donating at age 65, but many seniors do eventually reach a place where their nest egg has run out.

And that perception might be changing as we speak. One or two decades ago many seniors were empty nesters. The kids were on their own and the old folks could allocate their funds without contingencies. These days many (many!) more are either supporting their offspring (and their offspring) with their assets or, like me, actually have children and grandchildren living in the house as full fledged family members. That means not only do day to day living costs come out of the old retirement fund but money has to be conserved for future necessities such as college (which seemingly gets more and more expensive by the week).

So, I would clarify my opinion a bit by saying it is probably the empty nesters who choose and have the means to support their favorite radio stations there are less and less of those people by the day and, IMHO, that scenario is going to get worse unless our younger generations find a way to earn a living wage.

And then, of course, a lot of the youngsters today do not equate a radio station donation to that of supporting finding a cure for cancer or supporting their local animal shelter.

 

[KeithE4]

Lombardo? Welk? Liberace? Those are my parent's musical acts. The only time I have ever listened to any of them is when they played on the Ed Sullivan Show back in the late 50's. My mother wouldn't let my father watch Liberace on TV for fear he'd throw something at the screen. Almost the same for Welk except for that accordion guy with the big teeth.

Lighten up, Francis. I was just funnin' with ya (We need a "big grin" emoticon on this board).

55-70 is much more realistic although I think you stopped too short. Most of my peers like another decade or two tacked onto their favs. Once the dirtbag....er, grunge actors stunk up the joint most of us abandoned Top 40 radio and went to other genres or stuck with Oldies/Classic Hits/Classic Rock. People in their late 70's began with the end of Big Band and Doo Wop and even those of us who came later seem to like an occasional blast of the WWII music. Our crooners were Johnny Mathis and Pat Boone instead of Frank Sinatra and Don Cornell. I noticed when I moved back to Noo Yawk Sity in 1970 that crooners were still popular there but I never heard about any of them among my peers except for their Christmas albums (Mathis was still huge!) Personally, I miss The Platters.

And remember, you are talking about the "Vietnam generation" who values the late 60's and early 70's much as the vets back from WWII loved the Big Bands and their vocalists. We may have hated serving in the war but it makes an indelible mark upon most. genre's were locked in from childbirth.

OK, maybe 1955-75 makes more sense, given my "top 40 radio" era was roughly 1962-82, and I'm about a half-decade younger than you are.

 

[bulwnkl]

In the spirit of some of the discussion here, I tried to give the wow factor a solid, continuous listen today for just half an hour. I can't do it. 2 - 3 songs is as far as I could get, despite trying it at least 4 different times throughout the day. I really hate their songs, and since there's no personality at all, there's nothing for me to listen to. Too bad, because I really quite liked them before this change. I'd be happy to give a 1950s - sometime format a try. I think mostly it'd be interesting to see whether such a format could come up with a 500+ song library.

Oddly perhaps, I really miss KOY's format as has been talked about, despite being solidly in the demographic that KOOL, KESZ, and I suppose(?) KYOT are targeting.

 

[TheBigA]

I really hate their songs, and since there's no personality at all, there's nothing for me to listen to.

I think you've hit something. A few years ago, I was trying to find out why a country station was #1 in a market that had no real reason to be. I did a survey and found out that the main attraction was the heritage morning jock. He'd built such a huge following that people would listen to music they didn't like just to hear the DJ. When he retired, the audience left. That station hasn't been #1 since. Sometimes, if you're just playing a bunch of disassociated songs, you lose people. You need some glue to hold it together. The music mix isn't enough. Especially when you're mixing formats. If you're playing Martina McBride after the Temptations, you need to prepare me. Otherwise it's just a trainwreck.

 

[John Gallagher]

Even though I always worked in the East, was well aware of KOY during my radio career. Weren't they at one time an AM Only affiliate and possibly Music Of Your Life before that? I seem to recall Chick Watkins of AM Only having worked there too.

 

[The Media Observer]

Interesting comments everybody. To me, the format (and overall variety of music) is fine. There's enough room for Joe Cocker, Marvin Gaye, The Outfield and Dixie Chicks on the same station. No problem.

Regarding the latter, it's good to hear the Chicks on Phoenix radio again. Their music deserves to be played. Shame on country radio for its cowardice boycott of them. Still, in the end, the Chicks won and ultimately had the last laugh.

I won't mince words: the re-recorded songs on the playlist need to go, period! If they can't find the originals (or hit remakes), then don't bother. Frankly, Sebastian should know better! That's simply unacceptable.


Back on topic, none of the above negates the fact that the WOW Factor is still a classic hits station. No matter how much Sebastian wants to trivialize and split hairs on his so-called "unexploited" format.

For the record, I think he means unexplored format. Sigh.... but I digress.