In all likelihood, WEBR does not subscribe to the report.
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November 2021 Trends
- Thread starter Rusty Bridges
- Start date
They don’t. But I do know what their share is this month. 0.4
You keep saying this over and over as if there was a tidal wave of audience loss. It is not so.
Yes, people listen to radio for fewer hours a week. There are many new alternatives. But, with slight market to market variations, about 90% of all adults use radio weekly. That is down from the mid-80's peak of about 94%, but the decline has been gradual starting with other alternatives like video games, cell phones, CD players, MP3 players and now, streaming.
Radio has to adapt to new alternatives, but it is still convenient and free. And most radio owners and groups are looking for profitable transitions to different systems.
I don't know where the "limited playlist" misconception comes from. Stations play as many songs as they can find that have mass appeal. The exact number is determined by testing all the possible songs with actual listeners.
Corporate dictates have nothing to do with playlist length. It costs no more in music licensing or any other fee to play 1,000 songs as it does to play 300. The only requirement is that the target audience not dislike any song to the extent that they would tune out.
When I did my first professional music test about 35 or so years ago, for fun I scored the first 100 on the list according to my own feel for each song. I had the experience of creating the format about 6 years before at a station that got a 33.5 share after 90 days on the air, so I considered myself quite an expert.
Wrong.
I found that I was off by more than 20% on over half of them, and about 20 of the songs I liked considerably were hated per the audience consensus results. The station had a playlist of over 1200 songs, and had 80 currents. It went down to 400 songs and 27 currents and new adds. It went from last to dominant #1 and stayed there for 27 years.
I was "corporate". And I was wrong... but I knew that or would not have ordered a test. We went from playing one good song out of every three to a great song every time. It took less than 4 months to go from the bottom to the top.
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Townsquare has experience with FM talk (WKXW New Jersey).
WBEN looks like it has that whole pie to itself in Buffalo where they're #3 ranked...on AM.
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A listener may tune out because of an obnoxious jock, commercial, or annoying sweeper. Many songs that "test well" are burned out and can cause people to tune out. The overall vibe of a station can be repellent to some folks.
Playlists obviously differ by format. Album Rock (or Classic Rock) doesn't need to be cookie cutter. The presentation is as important as the playlist. WBUF is failing miserably. Maybe they should run sweepers & marketing saying "We play the songs that test well, so why aren't you listening???"...
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There are lots of reasons to stop listening. The top one is no longer being able to listen, with the prime example being arriving at work or the store or school and no longer being able to listen to anything.
Then, a bad song is the main reason. "Bad jocks" are not a reason because they are there every day and listeners who don't like them learned long ago not to listen.
The main reason is a "bad song" which means one that the listener dislikes quite seriously. Testing reduces the spins or kills burnt out songs, so they are not played. They typical instruction of a music test, whether for currents or library, is "score for how much you'd like to hear that song on the radio today". That instruction eliminates both burn and "born dislike". It is quite easily discovered.
And a station you don't like is one you don't keep going back to, so there is no tune-out experience and registered in diaries; if you don't like anchovies, you don't order them.
No, they need to play songs that don't have strong negatives. That leaves a lot of songs out. The fact is that most burnt or negative songs possess that quality both in Seattle and in Savannah.
There is more than a music test. If the "other station" plays all the good songs, but does a better job of programming Music Master or Selector, then they win. There is a lot more than just a test, just as being a carpenter is a lot more than owning a hammer.
Somehow central New Jersey does not seem to be a lot like Buffalo. That's not a good example, as Townsquare did not build that station but has managed to keep it alive. Still, there are only 2 viable station in the market, and in 25-54 they are 4th...
And the station is not even top 10 in 25-54 in a market that really only has about 9 or 10 truly viable commercial signals
Yes, there are niche positions that can be held by brilliant sellers such as Buddy obviously is, but they exist due to the commanding general and not corporate ownership. There is not going to be room for a second... and expensive... talk station. And talk is an old format, so taking it to FM is not going to make much of a difference unless it's a heritage station (WSB, KSL for example) wishing to prolong its life a bit.
That was Jack-FM's act. "There's at least one clunker in every bunch of songs in a row, listen for the good songs ... and stick around for the bad ones."
I know this is my first post, but I was in the market for a long time.
Posting 12+, and drawing conclusions as proof of concept, or proof positive OF ANYTHING is essentially useless.
No one posts numbers on demos that actually matter.
25-54 Men, 25-54 Adults, 25-54 women are what station management makes decisions off of. Especially morning numbers. Those are what sell ads and get people fired.
I genuinely don't understand the 12 page threads every month on 12+ trends. You think 97 Rock cares what a child thinks? They literally don't acknowledge that Pearl Jam (made of entirely men above 50 now) as "classic rock". A band literally comprised of men TOO OLD FOR THEIR OWN DEMO doesn't make day parts. I dont think I saw 12+ numbers once in any ratings review in 9 years.
Show me real numbers and let's talk.
Posting 12+, and drawing conclusions as proof of concept, or proof positive OF ANYTHING is essentially useless.
No one posts numbers on demos that actually matter.
25-54 Men, 25-54 Adults, 25-54 women are what station management makes decisions off of. Especially morning numbers. Those are what sell ads and get people fired.
I genuinely don't understand the 12 page threads every month on 12+ trends. You think 97 Rock cares what a child thinks? They literally don't acknowledge that Pearl Jam (made of entirely men above 50 now) as "classic rock". A band literally comprised of men TOO OLD FOR THEIR OWN DEMO doesn't make day parts. I dont think I saw 12+ numbers once in any ratings review in 9 years.
Show me real numbers and let's talk.
That's why they release those numbers to the general public. They are useless.
Well, he asked what WBUF could flip to. If there are no music format holes in the market, which there don't seem to be, then the point is maybe a talk format is all that's left, especially when the competition would be stuck on AM.
If not political talk, where your points are well taken, what about sports, hoping to pull the audience away from WGN (AM)?
92.9 has a good, full market signal, doesn't it? But the most attractive music formats are already covered by either heritage stations in the market or by Townsquare's own stations. All that's left is a niche music format like soft AC. Or Hispanic, but it looks like Buffalo' demographics are only 5% Hispanic.
Or WGR (AM). Both political talk and sports are expensive formats to do well.
It's pretty obvious that Townsquare is viewing radio with a multi-platform platform approach. The reason they chose this format is it gives them an opportunity to clear their national programming and web content in this market. Townsquare has national content available in pop, country, rock, and urban. The only format they don't have in Buffalo is pop. So if they're going to flip to a different format, that's likely the one. But I expect they will retool the rock approach.
What is the mainstream AC station in Buffalo? I thought it was Townsquare's WMSX but its Breeze branding looks like Soft AC and its (6+) ratings look rather middle-of-the-pack. Can't see the playlist because it's all Christmas right now.
And Audacy's WTSS is Hot AC. Isn't there a straight-up, Lite-FM style mainstream AC in the market?
And Audacy's WTSS is Hot AC. Isn't there a straight-up, Lite-FM style mainstream AC in the market?
No argument.
Most of the posters here know Persons 12+ is a beauty contest. It's been stated and acknowledged dozens of times, but it doesn't stop people from speculatin'... because that's the way it works here. And every once in a while, whether intentionally or accidentally, a Persons 25-54 report slips under the radar, or a position ranker gets reported. That properly noted, there's a significant portion of worthwhile discussion regarding ratings methodology, metrics and programming on the Buffalo-Niagara Falls-Rochester board. Half the posters here have friends in the business, work or have worked in the business or associated fields, so they know the score and can reasonably project, guesstimate or extrapolate Persons. If you never saw Persons 12+ once in your nine years, you are indeed a rarity. We need those around here.
And Frank... if folks here didn't post on Persons12+, you'd have fewer page clicks, page views and visitors. Your work is of value, but if Persons 12+ discussion ever dried up, well... those banner ads might have fewer eyes-on.
Thanks for the space.
In most markets, the Spanish language share is slightly less than half the percentage of Hispanics in the market. Later generation Hispanics listen to English language media. Many Spanish dominant Hispanics listen to general market stations because they have always like American pop or AC music, going back to stations in Mexico or Puerto Rico or wherever they are from that play all or a mix of English music.
Buffalo does not qualify for an Hispanic HDHA (High Density Hispanic Area) or for proportionality in the sample. If a Spanish language station were to be started, it would be on an AM or an inferior facility.
I feel like spoken word is well covered by heritage stations. TSQ probably wouldn't go down this route for the same reasons as BigA mentioned, but also because I can't imagine that either format would be better, ratings wise.
Also WMSX is already covering the Soft AC base to "ok" results, so WBUF as Mainstream AC is unlikely. WMSX had also been a Hot AC before that, so I doubt TSQ would go down that route again. I agree with BigA that we will probably see a retooling of the station's existing format.
It's safe to assume that the audience for 97 Rock is 85 percent White Men over 50. Sure, a few outliers may exist. The diaries will have some quirks. It's unrealistic to think that great numbers of 25-40 year olds are listening to a format like this...
You'd be surprised. In Philadelphia, the classic rock station is #2 18-34 and #3 18-49. So you can't stereotype classic rock listeners. I doubt Cumulus would invest as much as they do in the format if 85% of the listeners were over 50.
Since this is all about the revenue, both digital and OTR, the real issue is the ability to sell the format. Even considering the benefit of clearing the morning show, even with the goals and strategies of selling digital, how long can sales reps sell a format (any format) that just isn't getting OTA traction? It's said this was the case with Mix 96. The format wasn't getting the agency buys and it was getting pummeled on direct. Hence the flip to the Breeze. Even the best sales reps have difficulty putting lipstick on a pig after a while.
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