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November Ratings

A

aindik

Big jumps for WMMR (5.2-5.7), Q102(4.5-4.8), and WRFF (4.0-4.4), all continuing trends from the previous month.

WIP-A-F combined is down two ticks (3.9-3.7). That's 2.9 on the FM and 0.8 on the AM. The two had a combined 4.3 in August (2.2 + 2.1), the last full month for WYSP. WPEN-A-F was also down a tick (2.6-2.5).

Huge, though somewhat predictable, drop off in the cume for WPHT (956,200-392,000). Predictable that it would drop, but not predictable how far it would drop. The station now has fewer cume listeners than WHYY and only 4200 more listeners than WSTW. Share was way down too (4.6-2.9). It's amazing how the Phillies keep that station afloat, and also amazing how little they are able to make the rest of the station's programming habit-forming during the off season. Putting the Phillies on 94.1 next year may well kill WPHT. Perhaps that's for the best.
 
Perhaps dropping Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity for local shows was not the best move?
 
Ben hits the top 10? Wow. Interesting bump in the lower section for WISX as well.
 
I believe one conclusion that can be made is there is a sizable market in the Philly market for Sport/Talk, Sports oriented radio.

Another way to look at this is to combine WIP's AM, FM, and online ratings and numbers. If you do that, WIP would fall between WMGK and WBEN, so near the top.

WPEN-FM stays where it is as the AM doesn't help much and there's no ratings for their online stream (possibly those who used to listen online can now get 97.5 and listen via FM).

Another way to look at this is if you combined both WIP and WPEN's (the Fanatic's) listeners there is potential for sports/talk to be tied with WDAS-FM.

Granted that pie is being divided up by WIP with the biggest piece and the smaller portion going to the Fanatic (WPEN), but still a pretty sizable piece of the Philly Market is listening to sport/talk.

It would be interesting to see, if both WIP and the Fanatic had equal signals through out the Delaware Valley which one would be on top. WIP, I believe has a far superior signal on both 94.1 and 610, over WPEN's 97.5 and 950, which also may contribute to WIP's stellar numbers. Of course, it could also be that Philly sports/talk listeners prefer WIP over WPEN. I listen to both. Depending on what they're talking about, etc.

We've not metioned WPHT when it carries the Phillies or Temple Univ sports. So it seems to me that sports/talk and sports oriented programming is a live and well in Philly.

Now as far as political talk, maybe a different vision needs to be in place. NPR's news/info/talk seems to do quite well in the Philly market, well above WPHT. WPHT was getting its clock cleaned by WHYY-FM back when they had Hannity and Beck too. So going back to that probably isn't the answer. Obviously WNTP's more intellectual conservative talk isn't breaking any records either. So maybe a more liberal leaning talk format, either off the bird (Thom Hartman and Alan Colmes for example) or live and local might be the ticket maybe a Philly version similar to WDEL's Al Missetti. Both the Philly and Wilmington markets are blue counties, maybe some moderate liberal voices would sell and pull in decent numbers in Philly. I believe Missetti gets decent numbers in Wilmington, I believe he gets better numbers than the cross town rival gets airing Glenn Beck. Someone in the know may be able to shed more light on that, but that's my understanding. So if it's working in Wilmington, why not Philly?
 
MikefromDelaware said:
I believe one conclusion that can be made is there is a sizable market in the Philly market for Sport/Talk, Sports oriented radio.

Another way to look at this is to combine WIP's AM, FM, and online ratings and numbers. If you do that, WIP would fall between WMGK and WBEN, so near the top.

WPEN-FM stays where it is as the AM doesn't help much and there's no ratings for their online stream (possibly those who used to listen online can now get 97.5 and listen via FM).
Click to expand...

SLIGHT possibility that WPEN-FM's stream isn't encoded? (Probably not since WMMR and WBEN's are, according to the ratings.) The reason why no Clear Channel streams ever show up in the ratings is because they don't encode. They can get more accurate numbers from their streaming providers than from Arbitron estimates.
 
Speaking of ratings for web streams, something funny in the New York ratings this book. The stream for WMMR has a cume of 112,100 people in the New York City book this month. 0.0 share, but 112,100 people listening in New York.

There's no way that's true. That's one person with a PPM listening to a ton of WMMR online.

If it is true, that means WMMR's stream had almost as many people listening to it in New York last month as WMCA did. :)
 
One problem with numbers for those listening on-line. If they are at work, most likely they are listening with ear plugs. The PPM will not record it.
 
I guess it depends on where you work. My employer doesn't allow the use of ear plugs as that would be a safety issue as you can't hear what's going on around you (this is an industrial setting). However, I could imagine in an office environment where all have cubicles and 50 folks in one large room, all those folks might be using ear plugs. Good point.

Why doesn't CC encode their online content? I'd have thought they'd want the Arbitron ratings for that as well, especially as they seem to push I Heart Radio. How do they make money with I Heart Radio? I've listened to Foggy Mountain Country via I heart Radio and there are no spots at all. Boomer comes on and makes a comment or tells you what song is coming up, but never any spots or even PSA's. So it doesn't even seem to be designed to take spots.
 
jhguthlac said:
Perhaps dropping Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity for local shows was not the best move?
Click to expand...
Ya think? Wonder how the new 1210 morning show did. I can't imagine that the 'nondenominational' Smerconish in the afternoon can be lighting up the ratings with the only live hour at 3PM and the PM drive time stocked with stale syndicated fare.

Mike From Delaware said:
Now as far as political talk, maybe a different vision needs to be in place. NPR's news/info/talk seems to do quite well in the Philly market, well above WPHT. WPHT was getting its clock cleaned by WHYY-FM back when they had Hannity and Beck too. So going back to that probably isn't the answer.
Click to expand...
Apples and oranges. Completely different audiences. NPR fans park themselves on the left of the dial and rev up the TSL. Everyone else doesn't even know they exist.

Obviously WNTP's more intellectual conservative talk isn't breaking any records either.
Click to expand...
While I'm a regular Hugh Hewitt listener, Salem just doesn't promote the station. Their priorities are national advertising clearances and the sale of airtime to sports and third party talk providers (like TRN and Citadel/Cumulus). WNTP and WFIL are run on a shoestring. The secular talk beats more dollar-a-holler preaching and 'teaching,' but it's handled just like the religious outlets.
 
musichead1029 said:
jhguthlac said:
Perhaps dropping Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity for local shows was not the best move?
Click to expand...
Ya think? Wonder how the new 1210 morning show did. I can't imagine that the 'nondenominational' Smerconish in the afternoon can be lighting up the ratings with the only live hour at 3PM and the PM drive time stocked with stale syndicated fare.
Click to expand...

Judging by a thread from the end of last year, last December (the Phillies were still playing into the November '10 book) they were 0.5 share points lower than now with a similar cume.
 
For WMMR to have cume in the NY TSA, it would largly come from counties like Middlesex, Monmouth, Ocean, Somerset where their signal DOES exist quite well in many spots. It could be that just one or two people listen...OR perhaps, someone from the Philly TSA travels TO one of those counties daily and thus the ratings. It's that simple. It DOESN'T mean someone is listening to MMR in Midtown Manhattan. Perhaps they DO listen online, as that IS entirely possible...could be someone originally FROM the Philly area who just likes the station. Remember, there IS no rock station in NY anymore...if you don't count Q104.3 a classic rocker. Just my two cents. BE BIG!
 
bigjay said:
For WMMR to have cume in the NY TSA, it would largly come from counties like Middlesex, Monmouth, Ocean, Somerset where their signal DOES exist quite well in many spots. It could be that just one or two people listen...OR perhaps, someone from the Philly TSA travels TO one of those counties daily and thus the ratings. It's that simple. It DOESN'T mean someone is listening to MMR in Midtown Manhattan. Perhaps they DO listen online, as that IS entirely possible...could be someone originally FROM the Philly area who just likes the station. Remember, there IS no rock station in NY anymore...if you don't count Q104.3 a classic rocker. Just my two cents. BE BIG!
Click to expand...

I live in Middlesex county and while I can't get WMMR at home (Edison), I can get WRFF, though it's a little scratchy. However, I work in South Brunswick and 104.5 is actually clearer than WKTU and WHTZ (both of New York). You also forgot Mercer county, which the Census Bureau (though to be fair, I'm not sure about Arbitron) still considers part of the New York area, even though some cities like Hamilton and Trenton are actually closer to Phillly. In my area, the only rock station with a decent signal (even then, it has some off days) is WDHA, which is incidentally, a sister station of MMR.
 
bigjay said:
For WMMR to have cume in the NY TSA, it would largly come from counties like Middlesex, Monmouth, Ocean, Somerset where their signal DOES exist quite well in many spots. It could be that just one or two people listen...OR perhaps, someone from the Philly TSA travels TO one of those counties daily and thus the ratings. It's that simple. It DOESN'T mean someone is listening to MMR in Midtown Manhattan. Perhaps they DO listen online, as that IS entirely possible...could be someone originally FROM the Philly area who just likes the station. Remember, there IS no rock station in NY anymore...if you don't count Q104.3 a classic rocker. Just my two cents. BE BIG!
Click to expand...

WMMR doesn't have cume in New York. The WMMR web stream does.

I'm not saying that nobody in NY is listening. What I'm saying is, there's no way that it's over 100,000 different people, like the numbers say.
 
There were a few giggles, five or so years ago, when three stations on 106.3 showed up in the NYC book. And one of them was from Cape May.

That must've been one heck of a commute. It was also from the days of the diary. But even in those days, the select forty or so stations to 'show' was a pretty exclusive and consistent party.

Sounds like a bug in a PPM family shoe. Someone in a New York PPM family who was on vacation near Philadelphia for a spell.

Yet, for such a thing to be interpreted as 100,000 NYC people on vacation in Philadelphia at the same time is unusual.
 
Steve Green NEPA said:
There were a few giggles, five or so years ago, when three stations on 106.3 showed up in the NYC book. And one of them was from Cape May.

That must've been one heck of a commute. It was also from the days of the diary. But even in those days, the select forty or so stations to 'show' was a pretty exclusive and consistent party.

Sounds like a bug in a PPM family shoe. Someone in a New York PPM family who was on vacation near Philadelphia for a spell.

Yet, for such a thing to be interpreted as 100,000 NYC people on vacation in Philadelphia at the same time is unusual.
Click to expand...

Again, it's the web stream that showed in the ratings. Not the terrestrial FM station. They could very well be in Manhattan listening to it.

My problem isn't that the WMMR stream showed up. It's the magnitude. IOW, my problem is that it's showing as having a cume of 112,000. That number can't be right.

Similarly, WFAN has a cume of 57,700 in Philadelphia. Yes, I get that you can receive it in your car in much if not all of the market, and I get that some people check it out from time to time. But 57,700 different people in a single month?
 
aindik said:
Speaking of ratings for web streams, something funny in the New York ratings this book. The stream for WMMR has a cume of 112,100 people in the New York City book this month. 0.0 share, but 112,100 people listening in New York.

There's no way that's true. That's one person with a PPM listening to a ton of WMMR online.

If it is true, that means WMMR's stream had almost as many people listening to it in New York last month as WMCA did. :)
Click to expand...

It's true. 'MMR was mentioned on the Stern show a few weeks ago. I think Gary mentioned how YSP was no longer rock and how 'MMR was at the top. Of course, inquiring minds want to hear for themselves.
 
Philadelphia's WXPN shows up in the Washington, DC PPM. Explain that one.
 
jt said:
aindik said:
Speaking of ratings for web streams, something funny in the New York ratings this book. The stream for WMMR has a cume of 112,100 people in the New York City book this month. 0.0 share, but 112,100 people listening in New York.

There's no way that's true. That's one person with a PPM listening to a ton of WMMR online.

If it is true, that means WMMR's stream had almost as many people listening to it in New York last month as WMCA did. :)
Click to expand...

It's true. 'MMR was mentioned on the Stern show a few weeks ago. I think Gary mentioned how YSP was no longer rock and how 'MMR was at the top. Of course, inquiring minds want to hear for themselves.
Click to expand...
If that explained the New York rating, wouldn't it mean MMR would show up in various other cities around the country because of a Stern plug?
 
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