Now Playing on K-Earth - Classic Rock! (Well, sorta...)

[oldies76]

Just checked out KOLA and I'm a bit impressed. Today's played songs alone featured mainly 80's and some 90's, as late as 1999! A decent selection of 70's still, some disco, which is good...The oldest I could find today was 1972's "I'm Still in Love With You" by Al Green.

No 60's whatsoever (today anyways) including "Brown Eyed Girl"..

The only concern would be playing "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" twice in one day about 7 hours apart or so.

But they definitely have gotten throughout the 90's as classics, with groups like Sugar Ray, Sublime, even Green Day!

But it's very odd not to have even one Beatles classic in a day's rotation. I'm not sure about that approach. And looking at the last several days, repetition complaints could very well be an issue with KOLA.

 

[michael hagerty]

Just checked out KOLA and I'm a bit impressed. Today's played songs alone featured mainly 80's and some 90's, as late as 1999! A decent selection of 70's still, some disco, which is good...The oldest I could find today was 1972's "I'm Still in Love With You" by Al Green.

No 60's whatsoever (today anyways) including "Brown Eyed Girl"..

The only concern would be playing "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun" twice in one day about 7 hours apart or so.

But they definitely have gotten throughout the 90's as classics, with groups like Sugar Ray, Sublime, even Green Day!

But it's very odd not to have even one Beatles classic in a day's rotation. I'm not sure about that approach. And looking at the last several days, repetition complaints could very well be an issue with KOLA.

They don't have a repetition problem. The audience still uses radio the same way we've been discussing.

And if you're largely playing 80s and no 60s, why would you play The Beatles, whose last record (not counting overdubbed Lennon demos) was from 1970?

 

[davideduardo]

I think it would be very interesting to see a more complete list of songs that have been "tested" and rejected by audiences. Thanks if you're able to provide such a list, David.

As Michael said, that list is going to be proprietary. Most of us are under some form of non-disclosure "pact" with those we work for, and could never reveal the exact data. It's like the formula for Coke or Col. Sanders' secret recipe.

And the song preferences vary by market and by station demo targeting. There is no one size fits all here.

But if you look at station playlists and cross them with Whitburn or the other chart books, you will see the universal hits, the ones that get play some places, and the ones that have gone from being a hit yesterday to being a stiff today.

On the other hand, if I were doing streams instead of OTA radio, I'd go with a "feel" that I felt was comfortable, familiar and unique. A mix of common sense and my personal feelings, perhaps. There are so many streams to choose from, it is better to be creative and different than just another stream playing the Whitburn lists.

 

[oldies76]

And if you're largely playing 80s and no 60s, why would you play The Beatles, whose last record (not counting overdubbed Lennon demos) was from 1970?

Well, I believe we're just accustomed to hear Beatles on classic hits for many years and for none to played over a whole day, just does not sound right, as compared to KRTH for example.

Playing a few selections scattered throughout the day, I don't believe would represent a problem.
You're talking the Beatles here, not Bobby Goldsboro.

Or maybe KOLA can stick with post 1967 Beatles....

 

[michael hagerty]

And if you're largely playing 80s and no 60s, why would you play The Beatles, whose last record (not counting overdubbed Lennon demos) was from 1970?

Well, I believe we're just accustomed to hear Beatles on classic hits for many years and for none to played over a whole day, just does not sound right, as compared to KRTH for example.

Playing a few selections scattered throughout the day, I don't believe would represent a problem.
You're talking the Beatles here, not Bobby Goldsboro.

Or maybe KOLA can stick with post 1967 Beatles....

Consider:

If KOLA's emphasis is now largely 80s and 90s music, they are creating a new version of classic hits for younger adults, a chunk of whom may not have been classic hits listeners in the past and thus aren't "accustomed" to hearing the Beatles.

KRTH, for much of its existence, has been playing to an audience who grew up listening to stations like KFWB, KRLA and KHJ. The Beatles were a big part of those stations.

i haven't listened, but the description of KOLA sounds like it's going for today's mid-30s to mid 40s adult who grew up on stations like KIIS-FM, KROQ and Power 106. The Beatles weren't a factor.

 

[Goldilocks94941]

I suggest being careful not to consider all of this "oldies" music as strictly fitting under categories that you use to shelf them in your studio. For instance, the Beatles' sound changed drastically in just a few years. To treat it all as following some trend you've placed on a particular decade, or treating all releases by a particular artist the same, means you really don't get the music for its own sake. I think a lot of the later Beatles material, and their subsequent solo efforts, would blend in well with "80s and 90s" music, since much of it was "ahead of its time" anyway.

Also, limiting yourself to the top five or ten on the Billboard chart will cut off plenty of material that I'm sure would 'test well.' It's just like with the movies - some weeks there's a lot of strong competition, but that doesn't make a song that only charted to #11 a "dog," when it was up against stifffer competition then it might have found a few months later.
The music has to speak for itself, not the categories you shelf it in.

 

[michael hagerty]

I suggest being careful not to consider all of this "oldies" music as strictly fitting under categories that you use to shelf them in your studio. For instance, the Beatles' sound changed drastically in just a few years. To treat it all as following some trend you've placed on a particular decade, or treating all releases by a particular artist the same, means you really don't get the music for its own sake. I think a lot of the later Beatles material, and their subsequent solo efforts, would blend in well with "80s and 90s" music, since much of it was "ahead of its time" anyway.

Also, limiting yourself to the top five or ten on the Billboard chart will cut off plenty of material that I'm sure would 'test well.' It's just like with the movies - some weeks there's a lot of strong competition, but that doesn't make a song that only charted to #11 a "dog," when it was up against stifffer competition then it might have found a few months later.
The music has to speak for itself, not the categories you shelf it in.

Goldilocks:

It's less arbitrary than that.

First, it's about flow, and as ahead of their time as the Beatles were, I'm having trouble thinking of one of their songs that predicted the sound of 80s and 90s music or fits in well with it.

I wasn't excluding solo recordings because I've come to view the Beatles as a band (as a Boomer and a fan, that was a process). Ringo and Paul aren't Beatles, they were in the Beatles 43 years ago. A Paul or Ringo solo record isn't a Beatles record. Ditto John and George's solo work.

Al Green makes sense on KOLA because he set the tone for R&B ballads that has been used since (Cee-Lo owes him big).

As for chart performance when a record was new, it's irrelevant. A 35 year old doesn't remember or care how a record charted 33 years ago. It's about what they think of the record now. Holds true for most people even when dealing with songs from when they were old enough to remember. They just know whether they liked it or not at the time and whether they still feel the same way about it ("I loved that when I was younger...what was I thinking?"....or...."I always hated that song, until it was playing at a party the first time my wife kissed me.")


Testing doesn't go by chart number, which is how you get "Moondance".

 

[ChannelFlipper]

I suggest being careful not to consider all of this "oldies" music as strictly fitting under categories that you use to shelf them in your studio. For instance, the Beatles' sound changed drastically in just a few years. To treat it all as following some trend you've placed on a particular decade, or treating all releases by a particular artist the same, means you really don't get the music for its own sake. I think a lot of the later Beatles material, and their subsequent solo efforts, would blend in well with "80s and 90s" music, since much of it was "ahead of its time" anyway.

Also, limiting yourself to the top five or ten on the Billboard chart will cut off plenty of material that I'm sure would 'test well.' It's just like with the movies - some weeks there's a lot of strong competition, but that doesn't make a song that only charted to #11 a "dog," when it was up against stifffer competition then it might have found a few months later.
The music has to speak for itself, not the categories you shelf it in.

Goldilocks:

It's less arbitrary than that.

First, it's about flow, and as ahead of their time as the Beatles were, I'm having trouble thinking of one of their songs that predicted the sound of 80s and 90s music or fits in well with it.

Actually the Beatles made a big splash in 1986 by having "Twist and Shout" featured prominently in one of the decade's top movies "Ferris Buhler's Day Off". Record got a lot of airplay and re-charted.

 

[michael hagerty]

I suggest being careful not to consider all of this "oldies" music as strictly fitting under categories that you use to shelf them in your studio. For instance, the Beatles' sound changed drastically in just a few years. To treat it all as following some trend you've placed on a particular decade, or treating all releases by a particular artist the same, means you really don't get the music for its own sake. I think a lot of the later Beatles material, and their subsequent solo efforts, would blend in well with "80s and 90s" music, since much of it was "ahead of its time" anyway.

Also, limiting yourself to the top five or ten on the Billboard chart will cut off plenty of material that I'm sure would 'test well.' It's just like with the movies - some weeks there's a lot of strong competition, but that doesn't make a song that only charted to #11 a "dog," when it was up against stifffer competition then it might have found a few months later.
The music has to speak for itself, not the categories you shelf it in.

Goldilocks:

It's less arbitrary than that.

First, it's about flow, and as ahead of their time as the Beatles were, I'm having trouble thinking of one of their songs that predicted the sound of 80s and 90s music or fits in well with it.

Actually the Beatles made a big splash in 1986 by having "Twist and Shout" featured prominently in one of the decade's top movies "Ferris Buhler's Day Off". Record got a lot of airplay and re-charted.

Which had more to do with the popularity of the movie than the record fitting well with then-current music (as did "Unchained Melody" in "Ghost").

If it tests, great.

 

[oldies76]

but the description of KOLA sounds like it's going for today's mid-30s to mid 40s adult who grew up on stations like KIIS-FM, KROQ and Power 106. The Beatles weren't a factor.

Comparing to KRTH, since they will once-in-a-while still play a pre '64 (which would not be aimed for today's mid 30's to mid 40's listeners, I believe), why couldn't KOLA play a pre-70 aimed at their older listeners (such as a Beatles track). In other words, if KRTH has held on to select pre-64's and late 60's, why couldn't KOLA do something similiar?

Btw, looking at today's playlists, the oldest music KOLA has played today so far are: I'll Be There (1970), Let's Stay Together (1972), Evil Ways (1970) and Have You Seen Her (1971).

 

[michael hagerty]

but the description of KOLA sounds like it's going for today's mid-30s to mid 40s adult who grew up on stations like KIIS-FM, KROQ and Power 106. The Beatles weren't a factor.

Comparing to KRTH, since they will once-in-a-while still play a pre '64 (which would not be aimed for today's mid 30's to mid 40's listeners, I believe), why couldn't KOLA play a pre-70 aimed at their older listeners (such as a Beatles track). In other words, if KRTH has held on to select pre-64's and late 60's, why couldn't KOLA do something similiar?

Btw, looking at today's playlists, the oldest music KOLA has played today so far are: I'll Be There (1970), Let's Stay Together (1972), Evil Ways (1970) and Have You Seen Her (1971).

Given the shift in their music, I don't think KOLA is interested in keeping older listeners. Clearly this music is intended to appeal to a younger demographic and reduce the average age of the audience.

Keeping a pre-70s track would be like becoming a vegan but having a Double Whopper with cheese once a day.

KRTH's been very careful about rolling off old stuff, and as David has pointed out, pays the price by being top-heavy demographically. Today's Jhani's last day. We'll see where KRTH goes under Rick Thomas.

 

[Thomps2525]

The only pre-1964 songs that KRTH plays semi-regularly are Tequila (which is more than 55 years old), La Bamba (more than 54 years old) and Shout (54 years old). Once in a while they'll still play You Send Me (almost 56 years old).

KOLA plays 1970s-80s-90s. In other words, they play some Stevie Wonder songs but not all; they play some Kinks songs but not all; they play some Rolling Stones songs but not all. Need I continue?

 

[michael hagerty]

The only pre-1964 songs that KRTH plays semi-regularly are Tequila (which is more than 55 years old), La Bamba (more than 54 years old) and Shout (54 years old). Once in a while they'll still play You Send Me (almost 56 years old).

KOLA plays 1970s-80s-90s. In other words, they play some Stevie Wonder songs but not all; they play some Kinks songs but not all; they play some Rolling Stones songs but not all. Need I continue?

No.

Again, not counting overdubbed Lennon demos, there are two Beatles hits from the 1970s or later... Let It Be and The Long And Winding Road. Which of those two do you think is a logical fit for an 80s-90s rhythmic-leaning station that only plays one 70s song an hour?

 

[oldies76]

KRTH's been very careful about rolling off old stuff, and as David has pointed out, pays the price by being top-heavy demographically. Today's Jhani's last day. We'll see where KRTH goes under Rick Thomas.

Could be a tribute to retaining it's long-time listeners (such as the ones from the Hamilton days or even KHJ) and are reluctant to losing them (which must number in the 10's of thousands, if that), so they keep some 60's to satisfy all.

Under Rick Thomas, what do you expect from KRTH musically soon? Do you keep the 60's but also advance like KOLA?

 

[oldies76]

Which of those two do you think is a logical fit for an 80s-90s rhythmic-leaning station that only plays one 70s song an hour?

Michael, KOLA played four 70's songs during the 3pm hour:

Easy - Commodores (3:06pm)
Maybe I'm Amazed - Paul McCartney (3:29pm)
Night Fever - Bee Gees (3:39pm)
Hotel California - Eagles (3:55pm)

 

[michael hagerty]

KRTH's been very careful about rolling off old stuff, and as David has pointed out, pays the price by being top-heavy demographically. Today's Jhani's last day. We'll see where KRTH goes under Rick Thomas.

Could be a tribute to retaining it's long-time listeners (such as the ones from the Hamilton days or even KHJ) and are reluctant to losing them (which must number in the 10's of thousands, if that), so they keep some 60's to satisfy all.

Under Rick Thomas, what do you expect from KRTH musically soon? Do you keep the 60's but also advance like KOLA?

Half right. They're nervous. It's not a tribute.

I don't know what Rick will do, but his background is almost entirely rhythmic CHR. Given the demographics of Los Angeles, a KOLA-style approach...80s/90s, with maybe one 70s R&B or Latin-flavored track an hour....is probably the right move.

I don't think you can make the move KOLA made and keep the 60s. When KRTH does (and someday it will), the 60s will go, too.

Again, as I noted earlier in this thread, cycles are speeding up faster than I could have predicted even six months ago...driven by CHR, which is more accessible to adult women and AC, which is defending against CHR. Classic Hits has to move forward quickly or it starts sounding stodgy to 40-year old females who are listening to a lot more current stuff than they had been.

 

[michael hagerty]

Which of those two do you think is a logical fit for an 80s-90s rhythmic-leaning station that only plays one 70s song an hour?

Michael, KOLA played four 70's songs during the 3pm hour:

Easy - Commodores (3:06pm)
Maybe I'm Amazed - Paul McCartney (3:29pm)
Night Fever - Bee Gees (3:39pm)
Hotel California - Eagles (3:55pm)

Okay.

Strike "one", replace it with "four" and tell me which of those...Let It Be or The Long And Winding Road...you think would be a good fit for KOLA's current format.

 

[Thomps2525]

Michael, I'm not suggesting that KOLA play any Beatles songs. And if Mister oldies76 is suggesting that, he should be reminded that most of the Let It Be album was recorded in January 1969. Abbey Road, although released earlier than Let It Be, was the Beatles' actual last album.

In the case of KOLA, why isn't the station playing songs and artists instead of just "decades"? Has KOLA asked if any listeners want to still hear some 1960s songs? Who decided that nothing before 1970 would ever get played again? Sirius XM Satellite Radio has gotten many complaints over the years from people trying to figure out the logic in the playlists of the various channels, such as Deep Tracks, Classic Rewind and Classic Vinyl. They wonder why (for example) Elton John's early hits are on one channel, his '80s-'90s hits are on another channel, and his more recent songs are on another channel. Why can't all of Elton's hits be on a single channel? In the case of KOLA, they'll play (for example) the Rolling Stones' Miss You and Start Me Up but not Paint It Black or Honky Tonk Women. Where is the logic?

(I'm expecting that David will now come up with several examples of illogical playlists and how they affected the ratings. )

 

[oldies76]

Classic Hits has to move forward quickly or it starts sounding stodgy to 40-year old females who are listening to a lot more current stuff than they had been.

Have you heard any of the huge recent hits by Robin Thicke (Blurred Lines #1), Daft Punk (Get Lucky, currently #2), Bruno Mars (Locked Out of Heaven #1, Treasure, currently #8), Gotye (Somebody That I Used To Know #1), Justin Timberlake (Suit & Tie #3).....all very retro sounding, shades of late 70's and 80's and all top 10's.

If 40+ year old women are listening to these and other currents..you wonder if it ties in with what they listened to in their youth? Just a thought. Music has improved much of late, especially since 2011.

 

[oldies76]

Michael, I'm not suggesting that KOLA play any Beatles songs. And if Mister oldies76 is suggesting that, he should be reminded that most of the Let It Be album was recorded in January 1969. Abbey Road, although released earlier than Let It Be, was the Beatles' actual last album.

I was going by their peak dates on Billboard, both #1's in 1970. But there's always "Free As A Bird" or "Real Love" ;D