Now Playing on K-Earth - Classic Rock! (Well, sorta...)

[davideduardo]

Today's CHR? KIIS-FM (Clear Channel) vs. AMP (CBS) vs. Power 106 (Emmis).

AC? KOST (Clear Channel) vs. KTWV (CBS).

Alternative? KROQ (CBS) vs. KYSR (Clear Channel).

Classic Rock? KLOS (Cumulus) vs. KSWD (Bonneville).

The competition isn't sister stations.

So...there ya go!

Add in KXOS and KSSE and KXOL as CHRs. Real factors since the market is now 42% Hispanic.

KLVE and KRCD and KLYY as AC

And, with no English language equivalent, Regional with KSCA, KLAX, KBUE and KDLD/E. None are sister stations either.

 

[Thomps2525]

In the winter 1984-85 Arbitrons, KIIS was number one with a 9.7. In spring 1985 it had a 9.8, then a 9.4 in summer and an 8.8 in fall. In all four of those quarters, the #2 station was KABC. And now in 2013? "Behold, how the mighty have fallen!"

For winter '84-'85:

1 - KIIS, 9.7
2 - KABC, 5.8
3 - KJOI, 5.7
4 - KBIG, 5.1
5 - KLOS, 4.2
6 - KMET, 4.1
7 - KOST, 3.8
8 - KMPC, 3.5
9 - KNX, 3.4
10 - KFWB, 3.0
11 - KRTH, 2.9
12 - KROQ, 2.9
13 - KHTZ, 2.5
14 - KKHR, 2.5
15 - KIQQ, 2.2
16 - KLVE, 2.1
17 - KFI, 2.0
18 - KJLH, 1.9
19 - KZLA, 1.9
20 - KDAY, 1.7
21 - KMGG, 1.7
22 - KRLA, 1.7
23 - KTNQ, 1.7
24 - KKGO, 1.9
25 - KLAC, 1.9
26 - KACE, 1.3
27 - KALI, 1.3
28 - KUTE, 1.3
29 - KWKW, 1.3
30 - KNOB, 1.2
31 - KFAC-FM, 1.1
32 - KHJ, 1.0

 

[michael hagerty]

In the winter 1984-85 Arbitrons, KIIS was number one with a 9.7. In spring 1985 it had a 9.8, then a 9.4 in summer and an 8.8 in fall. In all four of those quarters, the #2 station was KABC. And now in 2013? "Behold, how the mighty have fallen!"

For winter '84-'85:

1 - KIIS, 9.7
2 - KABC, 5.8
3 - KJOI, 5.7
4 - KBIG, 5.1
5 - KLOS, 4.2
6 - KMET, 4.1
7 - KOST, 3.8
8 - KMPC, 3.5
9 - KNX, 3.4
10 - KFWB, 3.0
11 - KRTH, 2.9
12 - KROQ, 2.9
13 - KHTZ, 2.5
14 - KKHR, 2.5
15 - KIQQ, 2.2
16 - KLVE, 2.1
17 - KFI, 2.0
18 - KJLH, 1.9
19 - KZLA, 1.9
20 - KDAY, 1.7
21 - KMGG, 1.7
22 - KRLA, 1.7
23 - KTNQ, 1.7
24 - KKGO, 1.9
25 - KLAC, 1.9
26 - KACE, 1.3
27 - KALI, 1.3
28 - KUTEW, 1.3
29 - KWKW, 1.3
30 - KNOB, 1.2
31 - KFAC-FM, 1.1
32 - KHJ, 1.0

Again, take away the weekly Porsche with 25 grand in the glove box giveaway and KIIS-FM would have been a lot closer to a 5 than to a 10. Wally Clark didn't spend that money to not move the needle much.

Also, Lee's remark about The Real Don Steele having a 40 share...in teens, yes. His high water mark for overall audience was Fall '68, with a 20 share (still incredible)...the same book that KHJ as a whole did a 13. Once you got away from the teen audience for KHJ, KRLA and KGFJ, the numbers became...5s and below.


1. KHJ (Top 40-The Real Don Steele and one hour of Sam Riddle): 20.0
2. KRLA (Top 40-Bob Dayton): 9.0
3. KGFJ (r&b): 8.0
4. KPOL (beautiful): 7.0
5. KFWB (news): 6.0
6. KLAC (country): 4.0
6. KOST-FM (beautiful): 4.0
8. KALI (Spanish): 3.0
8. KFAC (classical): 3.0
8. KFOX (country): 3.0
8. KMPC (mor-Gary Owens): 3.0
8. KNX (news): 3.0
8. KWIZ (oldies): 3.0
14.KABC (talk): 2.0
14.KBCA-FM (jazz): 2.0
14.KFI (mor-Chuck Cecil): 2.0
14.KGIL (mor): 2.0
14.KWKW (Spanish): 2.0
19.KBBQ (country): 1.0
19.KBMS-FM (Beautiful): 1.0
19.KEZY (top 40): 1.0
19.KHJ-FM (a/c): 1.0
19.KKOP-FM (a/c): 1.0
19.KMET-FM (aor): 1.0
19.KNX-FM (soft rock): 1.0
19.KPPC-FM (aor): 1.0
19.KRKD (mor): 1.0
19.KUTE-FM (mor): 1.0

 

[Thomps2525]

Getting back to KRTH, which I think was the original topic of this thread, I found a copy of their 1981 Firecracker 300. The top five were Stairway To Heaven (Led Zep, not Sedaka), Yesterday (Beatles, not Ray), Hey Jude (Beatles, not Pickett), Light My Fire (Doors, not Feliciano), and Satisfaction (Stones, not Redding). Kim Carnes' Bette Davis Eyes was #10---a 1981 song on a 1981 oldies countdown. Golly gee! Sailing by Christopher Cross was #13 and the Oak Ridge Boys' Elvira (!) was #183.

 

[michael hagerty]

Getting back to KRTH, which I think was the original topic of this thread, I found a copy of their 1981 Firecracker 300. The top five were Stairway To Heaven (Led Zep, not Sedaka), Yesterday (Beatles, not Ray), Hey Jude (Beatles, not Pickett), Light My Fire (Doors, not Feliciano), and Satisfaction (Stones, not Redding). Kim Carnes' Bette Davis Eyes was #10---a 1981 song on a 1981 oldies countdown. Golly gee! Sailing by Christopher Cross was #13 and the Oak Ridge Boys' Elvira (!) was #183.

Because in 1981, KRTH was an Adult Contemporary station, not an Oldies station. Yeah, I know..."Stairway To Heaven" by Led Zeppelin on an AC...fact is, KRTH cannibalized KHJ.

 

[davideduardo]

I know there are a few songs such as Nadia's Theme and A Hard Day's Night that are recognizable by the very first note. But, in these auditorium tests, if people hear a song they don't recognize---and I'm assuming, perhaps wrongly, that a station would test a few songs that were not big hits---how would the listeners rate them? Does that dial have a position that says "Don't recognize"? And would the tester then play a longer portion of each song that isn't widely recognized? Or would the tester just arbitrarily decide that the station shouldn't play any song that isn't recognized by 100% of the people? If that is the case, that would explain why we get Happy Together, Light My Fire and Brown Eyed Girl ten times a day!

Stations that test less familiar songs will be ones testing currents... nobody is going to play unfamiliar gold intentionally... because that is not why listeners come to library based stations.

When testing songs that are current, familiarity generally is indicated and the score is discarded. On a paper test, the scores might be unfamiliar-hate-dislike-neutral-like-love. On a dial, 0 might be unfamiliar, 1 to 100 hate to love. Or, some dials have an unfamiliar button.

With unfamiliar music, people would score analytically based on what the song sounds like. So they are really scoring another, similar sounding, song... which is why we chuck the score and disregard that data.

 

[Thomps2525]

Michael, in 1981 there was nothing left of KHJ to cannibalize. That was a few months after KHJ decided that Roy Orbison, Buddy Holly, Brenda Lee (her 1960s songs), Rick Nelson, Neil Young, Charlie Dore, the Eagles, Crosby Stills & Nash and Creedence Clearwater Revival belonged on a country station. On an AM country station. As it turned out, we didn't "all grow up to be cowboys."

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael, in 1981 there was nothing left of KHJ to cannibalize. That was a few months after KHJ decided that Roy Orbison, Buddy Holly, Brenda Lee (her 1960s songs), Rick Nelson, Neil Young, Charlie Dore, the Eagles, Crosby Stills & Nash and Creedence Clearwater Revival belonged on a country station. On an AM country station. As it turned out, we didn't "all grow up to be cowboys."

KRTH made the flip in 1976, Steve. They helped push KHJ to Country in October, 1980.

 

[michael hagerty]

Michael, in 1981 there was nothing left of KHJ to cannibalize. That was a few months after KHJ decided that Roy Orbison, Buddy Holly, Brenda Lee (her 1960s songs), Rick Nelson, Neil Young, Charlie Dore, the Eagles, Crosby Stills & Nash and Creedence Clearwater Revival belonged on a country station. On an AM country station. As it turned out, we didn't "all grow up to be cowboys."

And, in KHJ's defense, KLAC was Top 5 doing traditional Country and the flavor of the month was "Urban Cowboy" , the soundtrack of which included Jimmy Buffett, Joe Walsh, Dan Fogelberg, The Eagles, Bob Seger, Bonnie Raitt, J.D. Souther, Linda Ronstadt and Boz Scaggs(!).

If there was a town where it could have worked, it would have been L.A., and a few years later, it did for John Sebastian at KZLA.

 

[michael hagerty]

An error in the fall 68 afternoon numbers. KLAC is shown as Country. It was talk at that time.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

Riddle me this: Since PPM became a part of the radio landscape, what great stations have come along? They're absence is because no one is allowed to take a chance any more. an island.

That's really a bad, illogical question.

The PPM came to most markets between 2008 and 2010, in the middle of a recession where radio lost, at one point, 40% of its pre-recession billings.

Those same years up to the present are littered with foreclosures and lender assumptions, along with a reduction of perhaps a third of the folks working in radio before the recession.

Add the growth of smartphones... the first iPhone preceded the recession's "start" by just a few months... and the move to alternate distribution systems and you have a poor scenario for risk taking.

When risks are taken, it is usually due to having a surplus of working capital, or, the opposite, nothing to lose. Neither case has prevailed in radio: no company has excess cash flow and stations with nothing to lose tend to be sold or foreclosed on as there is no available financing for "dream development" in radio.

Remember, your KROQ example came from the period where FM had vastly less value, and there were only a couple of formats that were bringing on the revenues, so the other stations messed around with experimental formats.

Great innovations like the conversion of the deak KMET to KTWV occurred because Metromedia had lots of cash, could afford amazing "think tank" talent and was willing to take risks. That environment does not exist for the most part today... anywhere in the world.

David,

You didn't like my question but seem to agree with me in my analysis. Nobody takes risks because they cannot afford the risks. Part of the reason for that is because radio station values formed a bubble during the last decade when so much consolidation took place and costs were eliminated through both real and perceived symmetries plus the unrealistic assumption that operating costs could continue to be reduced at the rate the consolidators were doing it. At some point it became clear that costs could not continue to be cut at that rate and ad rates started to go down in concert with the overall economy. Thus the high leverage, which really discourages risk-taking.

 

[davideduardo]

You didn't like my question but seem to agree with me in my analysis. Nobody takes risks because they cannot afford the risks. Part of the reason for that is because radio station values formed a bubble during the last decade when so much consolidation took place and costs were eliminated through both real and perceived symmetries plus the unrealistic assumption that operating costs could continue to be reduced at the rate the consolidators were doing it. At some point it became clear that costs could not continue to be cut at that rate and ad rates started to go down in concert with the overall economy. Thus the high leverage, which really discourages risk-taking.

Yes, we are in agreement on some of the effects, but not the cause.

The degree of leverage of the larger radio companies was no greater than the leverage of General Electric, to site an example. However, radio was more vulnerable to a recession than some firms because in recessions ad expenditures tend to be cut first and more than nearly any other cost.

They synergies of cluster-izing stations were realized almost immediately, and were known in advance. The later cost cutting was a product of the economy or, like the reduction in engineering staff in the 60's and 70's, due to changes in technology or FCC rules. None of those had immediate impact on programming... and the synergies of group operation actually benefited content in some cases.

In a good economy, ownership of multiple stations in a market encourages experimentation and diversification of formats.

The PPM, however, put a damper on all kinds of "intuitive" programming practices because it showed that diary based assumptions were, in many cases, simply wrong. In that case, with more accurate moment to moment information, and the ability to make changes based on that data, the listener benefits.

 

[oldies76]

Getting back to KRTH, which I think was the original topic of this thread, I found a copy of their 1981 Firecracker 300. The top five were Stairway To Heaven (Led Zep, not Sedaka), Yesterday (Beatles, not Ray), Hey Jude (Beatles, not Pickett), Light My Fire (Doors, not Feliciano), and Satisfaction (Stones, not Redding). Kim Carnes' Bette Davis Eyes was #10---a 1981 song on a 1981 oldies countdown. Golly gee! Sailing by Christopher Cross was #13 and the Oak Ridge Boys' Elvira (!) was #183.

Rewind, is there a link to this countdown or do you have the original hard copy of the pamphlet?
Either way, I'd be interested in seeing that.

I clearly remember "Elvira" on CHR (#2 on KRTH survey in '81)....."Sailing" at #13 is interesting, since it was a current in the summer of 1980, hitting #2 on the KRTH survey that summer.

 

[radio124]

I have a booklet in my possession entitled K-Earth 101 FM 10th Annual Firecracker 300 Commemorative Edition 1978-1987. It has all the yearly lists plus biographies of the jocks.

 

[michael hagerty]

ChannelFlipper: Here's the thing, though. Even in good times, unless they had little to lose (marginal signal, wrong band, like FM when few had receivers), what broadcaster didn't go for what they thought would be successful and make them the most money?

 

[davideduardo]

ChannelFlipper: Here's the thing, though. Even in good times, unless they had little to lose (marginal signal, wrong band, like FM when few had receivers), what broadcaster didn't go for what they thought would be successful and make them the most money?

And that is why, in '65, KHJ converted to Top 40 and went up against KRLA and KFWB rather than creating a new format.

 

[michael hagerty]

ChannelFlipper: Here's the thing, though. Even in good times, unless they had little to lose (marginal signal, wrong band, like FM when few had receivers), what broadcaster didn't go for what they thought would be successful and make them the most money?

And that is why, in '65, KHJ converted to Top 40 and went up against KRLA and KFWB rather than creating a new format.

Right. KHJ's two epic failures, Country and "Car Radio" looked like they had potential in Los Angeles. There was a business case on paper going in.

And David, yesterday you mentioned the KMET/KTWV change. While there weren't stations like it, it wasn't all that daring. Metropolitan Broadcasting and Frank Cody had reams of research telling them there was a market for The Wave.

 

[davideduardo]

And David, yesterday you mentioned the KMET/KTWV change. While there weren't stations like it, it wasn't all that daring. Metropolitan Broadcasting and Frank Cody had reams of research telling them there was a market for The Wave.

Yes, Metromedia had researcher Owen Leach (later of Cody-Leach which became Broadcast Architecture) who worked with them on projects both domestic and international. They examined various format alternatives and picked the one with the best potential.

 

[Thomps2525]

Mister oldies76, in 1981 I listened to most of the KRTH Firecracker 300 and wrote the titles in a notebook. I continued to do that each year. Somewhere in one of the many boxes of junk in my garage I have all the official printed Countdown folders but I'm not sure the first few were available in print form. Does anyone know? I think the earliest one I have is from 1985. Here, for your amazement and amusement, are the top ten songs from the 1981-85 countdowns:

KRTH 1981 Firecracker 300

Stairway To Heaven
Yesterday
Hey Jude
Light My Fire
Satisfaction
Imagine
American Pie
Let It Be
Bridge Over Troubled Water
Bette Davis Eyes

KRTH 1982 Firecracker 300

Stairway To Heaven
Light My Fire
Hey Jude
Yesterday
Satisfaction
Imagine
Mack The Knife
Bridge Over Troubled Water
You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling
Nights In White Satin

KRTH 1983 Firecracker 300

Light My Fire
Stairway To Heaven
Hey Jude
Yesterday
Satisfaction
Let It Be
Peggy Sue
Bridge Over Troubled Water
American Pie
Jailhouse Rock

KRTH 1984 Firecracker 300

Stairway To Heaven
Hey Jude
Light My Fire
Peggy Sue
Yesterday
Jailhouse Rock
Satisfaction
Born To Run
Beat It
American Pie

KRTH 1985 Firecracker 300

Hey Jude
Stairway To Heaven
Light My Fire
Yesterday
Superstar (Carpenters)
American Pie
Born To Run
Imagine
Satisfaction
Layla

And here are the top 20 songs on KRLA's 1983 Memorial Day 300---I wonder where KRLA got the clever idea to do a Top 300 countdown? Fourteen of the 20 were from the 1950s. Golly gee!

Rock Around The Clock
Jailhouse Rock
Since I Don't Have You
Satisfaction
Earth Angel
Heartbreak Hotel
Angel Baby
Yesterday
Blueberry Hill
Light My Fire
Love Me Tender
In The Still Of The Night
Summertime Blues (Cochran)
My Girl
Don't Be Cruel
Hey Jude
Little Darlin' (Diamonds)
Blue Suede Shoes (Perkins)
The Great Pretender
At The Hop

 

[oldies76]

Thank You LARadioRewind...just shows how diverse KRTH and radio was just 30 years ago. Seems like nothing was ever risky back then, compared to today. Wish those diary days would seriously return.

Did you notice something? No "Brown Eyed Girl" in any of those top 10's.

In 1985, the Carpenters with "Superstar" at #5? Interesting!

Well, at least WCBS has their top 20 tonight from June 1974 and 1984. Radio lives on, in NYC anyways.