Now Playing on K-Earth - Classic Rock! (Well, sorta...)

[davideduardo]

That is definitely what they should be doing, but often times new programmers are really engaged in the competition of egos. And if one is in an ego competition, standing pat with the predecessor's formula is by definition a loss.

I would not say that the "predecessor's formula" is a loss. I would say that the overall station concept that has been KRTH for decades is about through with its run in LA.

The options are a total format shift or significant reflavoring of the existing product. When you have a station that barely hits 15th in 25-54, more than moving the furniture around the room is needed.

I haven't been following the situation too closely, but it seems the new guy at KOST and KBIG may be playing the same game. I am sure Calguy can enlighten us, although in his case, it may be working.

KBIG is now fairly consistently #1 in 25-54 and KOST has been in a narrow share range at 2nd to 5th in the same demo over the last 5 months.

I have no idea if the new KRTH guy is playing the game; time will tell. It is interesting that for all of the talk about lowering the average age of the KRTH listener by essentially ditching all or nearly all of the 60's music, the first special programming event under the new PD was to play four Beatles tunes per hour for the 4th of July. I guess it doesn't make sense to play four Earth Wind and Fire songs per hour.

It's going to take more than small shifts in music to make KRTH a 25-54 contender. Doing an artist feature is a lot less work intensive than doing a whole holiday special, and if the end result is irrelevant, then we get the simple solution.

 

[calguy]

Well the new PD started just a few days ago and I am sure he wants to put his own stamp on the station and get out from behind Jhani's shadow as quickly as possible.

A friend explained it best...

Half of PD hirings don't work.

Of that 50% that don't work, half of them fail because the PD has moved up to a station that is intimidating: larger market, bigger name. They are afraid to do anything and the station stagnates.

The other half of the failures are people who come in and want to... like a cat... mark territory and put their own mark on the station. They break it.

Nobody is competing with Jahni Kaye because he has left the station. They are competing for listeners with the other stations in LA in July, 2013.

That is definitely what they should be doing, but often times new programmers are really engaged in the competition of egos. And if one is in an ego competition, standing pat with the predecessor's formula is by definition a loss. LARadioRewind has provided a good example above (Although I liked Scott Shannon's Pirate Radio. At least they had the guts to do something different.) I haven't been following the situation too closely, but it seems the new guy at KOST and KBIG may be playing the same game. I am sure Calguy can enlighten us, although in his case, it may be working.

I have no idea if the new KRTH guy is playing the game; time will tell. It is interesting that for all of the talk about lowering the average age of the KRTH listener by essentially ditching all or nearly all of the 60's music, the first special programming event under the new PD was to play four Beatles tunes per hour for the 4th of July. I guess it doesn't make sense to play four Earth Wind and Fire songs per hour.

The word I got out of CBS Wilshire is that the new PD will not be "that" type of programmer. By all accounts he's a great guy, low key, not a huge ego and is a smart programmer. I would expect most of the changes at both KRTH and KTWV to be the playlists. The "new guy" at KOST has been there for several years now. He came in as the PD of KBIG and Star 101 in SF and was given control over KOST and it's staff. He made quite a few mistakes with KOST but rebounded thanks to Stella Prado and her staff. But they're gone now, so KOST is on it's own so to speak. He's been a success, but it really has more to do with timing, especially with KBIG. The music caught up to the format and it's killing the competition. The word on him was that he was extremely hard to work for, but not for good reasons. I've covered those in posts over the years, so why go there again? Just leave it at that.

Back to KRTH. Yes, it has some problems, but is still bringing in some respectable numbers, unless you check the demos. The new man on campus will have to deal with it, and the music will be the portal for that. But they could use a fresh coat of paint with regards to imaging. It'll be interesting to see what he does. He's been a success just about everywhere, so it looks like CBS made a good choice. I'm told that he actually started about halfway through June on KTWV and took command of KRTH last week. I've noted some adds to the music on the Wave, so he's already tinkering.

 

[davideduardo]

Back to KRTH. Yes, it has some problems, but is still bringing in some respectable numbers, unless you check the demos.

The only "respectable numbers" a station has are the ones that are usable for sales.

That means a good showing in 25-54 or 18-49 or some significant subset.

In the last 3 books, KRTH has averaged 15th in 25-54. That's down several positions from the average of the prior 3 books (excluding "Holiday").

At a minimum, the station needs one of those "Lifestyle Lifts" that Oldies artist Debbie Boone advertises on TV.

 

[oldies76]

At a minimum, the station needs one of those "Lifestyle Lifts" that Oldies artist Debbie Boone advertises on TV.

And let's get "You Light Up My Life" back in rotation too.. ;D

Actually, as Flipper mentioned a few posts back, playing four Beatles tunes per hour this 4th of July, somewhat indicates that he's in no hurry to dump the 60's, at least in the short term. If you look at the "recently played" link, other 60's tunes were mixed in with those four Beatles tunes, so it was probably like 5 or 6 1960's tunes per hour under the new PD.

 

[michael hagerty]

Flipper also said Rick got the keys to KRTH last week. Don't bet on anything you hear this week being an indicator.

 

[ChannelFlipper]

At a minimum, the station needs one of those "Lifestyle Lifts" that Oldies artist Debbie Boone advertises on TV.

And let's get "You Light Up My Life" back in rotation too.. ;D

Actually, as Flipper mentioned a few posts back, playing four Beatles tunes per hour this 4th of July, somewhat indicates that he's in no hurry to dump the 60's, at least in the short term. If you look at the "recently played" link, other 60's tunes were mixed in with those four Beatles tunes, so it was probably like 5 or 6 1960's tunes per hour under the new PD.

Actually, "You Light Up My Life" is probably the ultimate example in the "it was popular then but no one wants to hear it now, so therefore we don't play it" discussion. Debby Boone spent ten(!) weeks at Number 1 with it in 1977, making it the most successful (by chart performance) single of the seventies, but you would have to hold a PD at gunpoint to get him to spin the song today. Even SiriusXM's 70's channel rarely plays it. The research negatives on the song must be off the charts! (Hey, a pun!)

The song does not deserve its bad rap. It is a well crafted song, well sung, and had a tie-in to a movie of the same name. Things did get a little weird when Debby came out and said her interpretation of the song was inspirational, instead of one based on a love relationship as it was originally intended. That turned a lot of people off and perhaps still stigmatizes the song today - that is a shame. But radio, like all forms of entertainment, chooses to see history as it wants to, not as it was, so nobody even thinks twice about whitewashing the song out of the history books and blacklisting it on the playlist. I know, I know - it doesn't test well - I get it. Time to play "Play that Funky Music White Boy" for the thousandth time again. It tests well across all demos!

 

[uncamark]

Actually, "You Light Up My Life" is probably the ultimate example in the "it was popular then but no one wants to hear it now, so therefore we don't play it" discussion. Debby Boone spent ten(!) weeks at Number 1 with it in 1977, making it the most successful (by chart performance) single of the seventies, but you would have to hold a PD at gunpoint to get him to spin the song today. Even SiriusXM's 70's channel rarely plays it. The research negatives on the song must be off the charts! (Hey, a pun!)

The song does not deserve its bad rap. It is a well crafted song, well sung, and had a tie-in to a movie of the same name. Things did get a little weird when Debby came out and said her interpretation of the song was inspirational, instead of one based on a love relationship as it was originally intended. That turned a lot of people off and perhaps still stigmatizes the song today - that is a shame. But radio, like all forms of entertainment, chooses to see history as it wants to, not as it was, so nobody even thinks twice about whitewashing the song out of the history books and blacklisting it on the playlist. I know, I know - it doesn't test well - I get it. Time to play "Play that Funky Music White Boy" for the thousandth time again. It tests well across all demos!

All I know is that back in 1978 in Chicago at WLS, John Landecker complained on the air about having to play the song and one night played it "on the installment plan," playing 15-second bursts of it throughout his show. Supposedly, he was known for writing on his gold list if given the Carpenters 'THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE!" in big letters and had regular arguments in the music meetings with his bosses. He seemed to believe that the AORs were his main competition and that he should play more rock than anything else--something that was granted to him shortly after Disco Demolition Night in 1979.

 

[calguy]

Back to KRTH. Yes, it has some problems, but is still bringing in some respectable numbers, unless you check the demos.

The only "respectable numbers" a station has are the ones that are usable for sales.

That means a good showing in 25-54 or 18-49 or some significant subset.

In the last 3 books, KRTH has averaged 15th in 25-54. That's down several positions from the average of the prior 3 books (excluding "Holiday").

At a minimum, the station needs one of those "Lifestyle Lifts" that Oldies artist Debbie Boone advertises on TV.

Thanks for fleshing out my comment. The 6 plus numbers for KRTH are respectable. I would give Jhani Kaye credit for that and to remind all that if not for Mr. Kaye, KRTH would be another format altogether. Like I said, respectable, unless you check the demos. Why KRTH is failing in that respect, considering that the music is a lot younger than it was when the station was about to die in 2005 is the real question. How do you make the station younger without killing off its essence? That will be something that Mr. Thomas will have to address. Funny thing about KRTH. There is a very vocal minority that complains that the station doesn't play enough variety, doesn't play enough 50's & 60's. Then you have everyone else saying that the station is still too old musically. Is there any happy medium?

 

[davideduardo]

Thanks for fleshing out my comment. The 6 plus numbers for KRTH are respectable. I would give Jhani Kaye credit for that and to remind all that if not for Mr. Kaye, KRTH would be another format altogether. Like I said, respectable, unless you check the demos.

The problem is that 6+ or 12+ numbers are given away by Arbitron because they are valueless save for "bragging rights". There is no advantage to a station in being at the top in 6+ unless the 18-34, 18-49 or 25-54 component of that overall figure.

I don't think I have heard of an agency looking at 6+ or 12+ for decades. And ratings are bought, principally, to sell to agencies and similar transactional buyers.

As to the future of the format, look to the IE. KOLA has gone very 70's and 80's, and in a somewhat comparable ethnic mix, has increased its 25-54 quite nicely. They have pretty much eliminated all the 60's and a lot of the earlier 70's stuff... and it is working in a market that also gets most of the LA Class B FMs.

With the LA market in mind, it's pretty obvious that the 60's and early 70's stuff has to go (save an occasional "timeless" cut). However, the real issue is how rhythmic the resultant format might be, particularly since CBS in LA has a strong rock-leaning gold format in Jack.

 

[pjc1961]

New imaging was mentioned as a possibility a few posts back. Production Vault-Classic Hits, which has recently added WCBS-FM NYC + WROR-FM Boston as clients, has also signed up KRTH.

Website including demo linked here: http://www.classichits.productionvault.com (use up and down arrows on keyboard to adjust volume as it plays)

 

[davideduardo]

New imaging was mentioned as a possibility a few posts back. Production Vault-Classic Hits, which has recently added WCBS-FM NYC + WROR-FM Boston as clients, has also signed up KRTH.

Was that deal done prior to the change of PD by the "old guard" staff?

WCBS is top 5 on average in 25-54; WROR averages even higher. They are doing well in their markets, both of which are very different in many ways from LA.

And that Production Vault stuff sounds a lot more WABC and WMEX than KHJ. The demo even has flanging on it. OMG.

 

[oldies76]

Debby Boone spent ten(!) weeks at Number 1 with it in 1977, making it the most successful (by chart performance) single of the seventies, but you would have to hold a PD at gunpoint to get him to spin the song today.

I do not believe KRTH has aired "You Light Up My Life" since those KRTH mega specialties in the mid 80's. Don't think Bob Hamilton was held at gunpoint either back then.

Maybe David Eduardo can look it up on BDS, if he has some time, to see how many times it has aired in the last 7 years.

 

[Thomps2525]

Debby Boone, eh? A song that spent ten weeks at number one should definitely be played on KRTH. They should be playing You Light Up My Life just as frequently as they play Hound Dog, Don't Be Cruel, Singing The Blues, The Boy Is Mine, Macarena, I Swear, One Sweet Day, End Of The Road, I Will Always Love You, I'll Make Love To You, I'll Be Missing You and Unbreak My Heart.

Oh wait.....

 

[calguy]

Thanks for fleshing out my comment. The 6 plus numbers for KRTH are respectable. I would give Jhani Kaye credit for that and to remind all that if not for Mr. Kaye, KRTH would be another format altogether. Like I said, respectable, unless you check the demos.

The problem is that 6+ or 12+ numbers are given away by Arbitron because they are valueless save for "bragging rights". There is no advantage to a station in being at the top in 6+ unless the 18-34, 18-49 or 25-54 component of that overall figure.

I don't think I have heard of an agency looking at 6+ or 12+ for decades. And ratings are bought, principally, to sell to agencies and similar transactional buyers.

Valueless to you perhaps, but still something to be proud of.

 

[jimbo]

I was looking at Kearth's playlist and noticed the song start times which indicate some awfully long commercial breaks.

11:33pm Temptations - Get Ready
11:44pm Elton John - Lucy in the Sky

Get Ready runs about 2:30 so by 11:36 it's done and now eight minutes of commercials? Who among us would sit through eight minutes and potentially 16 :30's? It seems to be a common technique, 20 minute or so music sweeps with two commercial breaks of 5 to 8 minutes. Is there research that says listeners will put up with an 8 minute barrage of commercials? I know I'm gone when the first spot starts because I figure 12 more are sure to follow.

 

[oldies76]

I was looking at Kearth's playlist and noticed the song start times which indicate some awfully long commercial breaks.

11:33pm Temptations - Get Ready
11:44pm Elton John - Lucy in the Sky

Get Ready runs about 2:30 so by 11:36 it's done and now eight minutes of commercials? Who among us would sit through eight minutes and potentially 16 :30's?

Eight minutes is a long time, especially while commuting. Going 60mph, that's 8 miles worth of commercials and if you only live 9 miles from your job....guess what! That's only ONE mile worth of music. A commuter's tuneout, I'd assume.

 

[michael hagerty]

I was looking at Kearth's playlist and noticed the song start times which indicate some awfully long commercial breaks.

11:33pm Temptations - Get Ready
11:44pm Elton John - Lucy in the Sky

Get Ready runs about 2:30 so by 11:36 it's done and now eight minutes of commercials? Who among us would sit through eight minutes and potentially 16 :30's?

Eight minutes is a long time, especially while commuting. Going 60mph, that's 8 miles worth of commercials and if you only live 9 miles from your job....guess what! That's only ONE mile worth of music. A commuter's tuneout, I'd assume.

This is Los Angeles we're talking about. Average freeway speed 11MPH. 9 miles in rush hour can be an hour's drive. Worse if there's a major crash tying things up.

Doesn't make the stopset any shorter, but nobody moves that quickly in L.A. traffic.

And David has the details...looks like stations retain most of the audience during those breaks.

 

[oldies76]

This is Los Angeles we're talking about. Average freeway speed 11MPH. 9 miles in rush hour can be an hour's drive. Worse if there's a major crash tying things up.

Doesn't make the stopset any shorter, but nobody moves that quickly in L.A. traffic.

And David has the details...looks like stations retain most of the audience during those breaks.

Rush hour yes, but depending on the freeway too. Let's ask you this: If you wanted to hear your favorites from the radio during your commute, would you sit through 8 continuous minutes of spots? 2-4 minutes probably, but eight? Seems long.

 

[michael hagerty]

This is Los Angeles we're talking about. Average freeway speed 11MPH. 9 miles in rush hour can be an hour's drive. Worse if there's a major crash tying things up.

Doesn't make the stopset any shorter, but nobody moves that quickly in L.A. traffic.

And David has the details...looks like stations retain most of the audience during those breaks.

Rush hour yes, but depending on the freeway too. Let's ask you this: If you wanted to hear your favorites from the radio during your commute, would you sit through 8 continuous minutes of spots? 2-4 minutes probably, but eight? Seems long.

I wouldn't sit through an 8-minute stopset, but the evidence is that a significant percentage of the audience does.

My point (for the benefit of those not familiar with L.A.) was that no one is covering a mile a minute in the commute.

Even today, a Saturday (just before noon as I write this), Google Maps indicates that the 10-mile run from the house I lived in as a kid to the Henson Studios in Hollywood...the old A&M Records lot ( a straight shot up La Brea after a mile on the street where I lived) would take 40 minutes on surface streets, 39 minutes by freeway.

I cut the distance by putting in the address of a friend's house on the Westside and left the destination at Henson/A&M. That's only 5.8 miles and under current traffic conditions, it's 22 minutes....on a Saturday at noon.

 

[SuperRadioFan]

I feel sorry for those of you on the wrong side of The Orange Curtain. Rarely is traffic that bad in central and southern OC. The Orange Crush does make that part of the commute he'll. there's just too many people in LA county.