Numbers....

[ameyer]

Come out Tuesday at 5, anybody want to guess how the market will stack up?

 

[Spackler1]

Regarding the 12+ numbers? Yawn. More parity. Exciting stuff.

The real story is never in the 12+ numbers anyway. Is there an interesting story to be told somewhere in the numbers this time around?

 

[shilton]

Just waiting for the impressions of the book from everyone. I find it kind of interesting to see 4 stations essentially tied for first place in State College's 12+ numbers. Interesing how 3-WZ's refocusing of the music had no impact at all. More or less the same #'s they have had for the past 3 books which really proves they can do no wrong. Are they just that well marketed or do people really love em that much?

The Frog held its own, Joe remained as strong as last book. B94.5 had some increases and G101 had a slight bump as well but the new "adult friendly" playlist for the workday hours didn't bring the listeners in droves to the "G" either. I still find it interesting that if you leveled the playing field to 1 CHR in State College, the combined #'s of the 2 would be enough to put the survivor into 2nd place (assuming you absorbed all the audience of the other). Just makes me wonder how long 2 CHR's can hang on in the valley? (I don't know anything, I am just thinking out loud and I am not slamming anyone either)

Big Loser Award has to go to Lite 99. What happened there? A few years ago that thing was a powerhouse and its audience has been eroding away ever since despite a much stronger signal. Could it be time for yet another format flip? History has shown that Forever does not seem to hold onto formats that are fading for long.

Speaking of losers, in Altoona looks like Q94 is up again and Rocky 104.9 is on the slide. Have to wonder if the "Q" won't win the classic rock war in Altoona and 104.9 will be forced to flip to something else yet again. Seems like that frequency flips format about every 2-3 years. Always has as long as I can recall with the exception of WHPA (not to be confused with the NEW WHPA) which pretty much had a good long run back in the day.

Has anyone seen the complete #'s? I am curious how things really fared demographic to demographic and daypart to daypart. Who are the real winners???

 

[fowler]

First impressions.
Shows that there is no dominant station anymore. Makes buying radio in State College even more difficult, with four stations tied under 10.0.
Froggy is confirmed as having been badly hurt by JoeFM.
3WZ has the edge and can continue to prosper as the local advertisers choice because of strong community relationships, and a sane sales approach.
QWK wins.
B improves steadily.
LITE bombs.

 

[ratingsgeek]

I still find it interesting that if you leveled the playing field to 1 CHR in State College, the combined #'s of the 2 would be enough to put the survivor into 2nd place (assuming you absorbed all the audience of the other).

A 3.3 + a 2.0 = (everybody grab their calculators)... a 5.3. That would be good for 5th, not 2nd.

 

[shilton]

I still find it interesting that if you leveled the playing field to 1 CHR in State College, the combined #'s of the 2 would be enough to put the survivor into 2nd place (assuming you absorbed all the audience of the other).

A 3.3 + a 2.0 = (everybody grab their calculators)... a 5.3. That would be good for 5th, not 2nd.

Seeing how 4 stations are tied for #1 and 2 stations are tied with a 4.6, that would make the 5.3 come in at a nice #2 showing and the 4.6's would be tied for third.

 

[ratingsgeek]

I still find it interesting that if you leveled the playing field to 1 CHR in State College, the combined #'s of the 2 would be enough to put the survivor into 2nd place (assuming you absorbed all the audience of the other).

A 3.3 + a 2.0 = (everybody grab their calculators)... a 5.3. That would be good for 5th, not 2nd.

Seeing how 4 stations are tied for #1 and 2 stations are tied with a 4.6, that would make the 5.3 come in at a nice #2 showing and the 4.6's would be tied for third.

Uh... that's not how it works. Let's try a football analogy. If Ohio State finishes this year 6-2 in the Big 10... and Michigan finishes 6-2... and Iowa goes 6-2... and Wisconsin wraps up 6-2, they'll all be crowned "Big 10 Champions" (and bowl assignments will be determined by their convoluted tie-breaker scheme). If Penn State finishes 5-3, the Lions will not be considered the "runner-up"... or #2 in the conference. They will have finished 5th. And they'll go to the bowl reserved for the 5th place team (Alamo Bowl???). Go Lions!

 

[shilton]

I still find it interesting that if you leveled the playing field to 1 CHR in State College, the combined #'s of the 2 would be enough to put the survivor into 2nd place (assuming you absorbed all the audience of the other).

A 3.3 + a 2.0 = (everybody grab their calculators)... a 5.3. That would be good for 5th, not 2nd.

Seeing how 4 stations are tied for #1 and 2 stations are tied with a 4.6, that would make the 5.3 come in at a nice #2 showing and the 4.6's would be tied for third.

Uh... that's not how it works. Let's try a football analogy. If Ohio State finishes this year 6-2 in the Big 10... and Michigan finishes 6-2... and Iowa goes 6-2... and Wisconsin wraps up 6-2, they'll all be crowned "Big 10 Champions" (and bowl assignments will be determined by their convoluted tie-breaker scheme). If Penn State finishes 5-3, the Lions will not be considered the "runner-up"... or #2 in the conference. They will have finished 5th. And they'll go to the bowl reserved for the 5th place team (Alamo Bowl???). Go Lions!

Go tell that to the sales folks who will say "we tied for #1" and this isn't football, we don't play a bowl game. A 4 way tie is a 4 way tie. I am sure if we look at the breakdowns demo by demo and daypart by daypart, perhaps a more "clear" leader would surface but based on the 12+ numbers, a tie is a tie

 

[ameyer]

I have to disagree with Steve here, a tie is a tie only if it is fair! Do the math folks....4 stations tie with a 9.2 2 stations tie at 4.6 or whatever and there was a 3 way 2.3 I believe as well...How small is that sample rate? Spack said it best when he said the 12+ numbers mean nothing, that is true...seriously though if somebody has the Arbitron Math Calculator could you call me so we can discuss how that works

Now before anybody brings it up I will state my case first...This is our first book since the restructure and after a steady decline in 3 books it is good to see we are headed back in the right direction, it may have been a small gain but it was a small gain in 2 diffrent markets and those who stumbled onto us are pleased with what they hear and I make the prediction we move forward again, more this time, in the next book. This may mean more adjustments or who knows we will see...

 

[amfmxm]

Now, if we're reading this correctly, the guy from 94.5 is saying their 8th place finish is really a #4, and the 101.1 guy is saying their 12th place finish is a sign of progress. Right? Okay...

Then it must be true that both of them aren't getting whipped by a little AM that's automated 20 hours a day; and one of them isn't getting whipped by an even smaller AM that's automated 24 hours a day. And both aren't getting crushed by an NPR station. And there are no gaping format holes begging to be filled in State College. And on Christmas Eve, a jolly old elf comes down the chimney...

 

[wesrichards]

Some guidance, here, if you will. I think I've figured out which AM is automated 20 hours a day, but which one is automated 24? thanks.

 

[shilton]

Now, if we're reading this correctly, the guy from 94.5 is saying their 8th place finish is really a #4, and the 101.1 guy is saying their 12th place finish is a sign of progress. Right? Okay...

Then it must be true that both of them aren't getting whipped by a little AM that's automated 20 hours a day; and one of them isn't getting whipped by an even smaller AM that's automated 24 hours a day. And both aren't getting crushed by an NPR station. And there are no gaping format holes begging to be filled in State College. And on Christmas Eve, a jolly old elf comes down the chimney...

Man...someone places a bit too much "love" in the numbers I suppose or just has a lot of pent up anger??? And I don't know about your house, but at mine...yeah a Jolly old Elf does still come down the Chimney at Christmas Time. Wouldn't have it any other way. I won't get into a heated debate as to whether or not G101's bump is or is not a sign of progress, but no matter how you slice it, the "B" made a nice move forward whether you call it #8 or #4 or whatever. Man, you need to chill just a bit. Its radio, not brain surgery. How 'bout you enlighten us with those big gaping holes in the market? Niche formats perhaps, but as we have seen from the Smooth Jazz experiment (twice) that Niche formats dont seem to fare well in a market this small so I'd be curious to hear what formats you feel we need so desperately. Ever solid mass appeal format that comes to mind already seems to be represented here in the Valley.

 

[ameyer]

Steve he is so in love with WPSU that he is blinded...it doesn't matter, you know what they say about opinions?

 

[amfmxm]

Oh, relax. I shoulda tossed in an "LOL" or "ROFL" somewhere to make it clear I was just poking some fun. It's just so funny to see you two going on and on about what a Big CHR Battle you're having--and how you're gonna kick *ss & take names--and then have R&R post rankings with both of you down there behind "police calls." It started last summer, didn't it? That's two books, now--a full year of this--and you're both still down below The Mighty 1390.

Not to be mean, but if neither of you can get past WRSC (Mr. Nelson + 20 hours of network), something ain't working right, you know? And, yeah, if 50,000 watt WGMR can't figure out how to slip past tiny WMAJ (a total plug-n-play operation), well, it's gotta be embarrassing. But instead of sitting back and reflecting on it all for a moment, you're both back here trying to make everyone believe that it's chicken salad instead of ... well, what it really is. In fairness, the rumors about iPods killing CHR seem to have some basis in fact. You may both be flogging a dead format to death. It wouldn't be the first time.

AJ, I'm not "in love" with WPSU. I just know they've got 5 times your audience. That tells me that they know something you don't. Niches? Hey, what you call "niches" are getting double & triple the shares you're getting. Get out of your shells. Take a trip. Google "hot radio formats!" LOL... ROFL!

At first glance it looks like the ratings are telling us that Froggy, The Bus, Quick and 3WZ all have large audiences; Joe & Wowy are in the middle; and the lower rung is made up of The Rest.

But if you're down there among The Rest, a little humility might be the order of the day, that's all. And you've both been strutting & huffing & puffing for so long that when you both kicked into the spinning nonsense, I couldn't resist taking a little poke. My apologies if anyone's feelings were hurt. You can go back to "playing radio," now.

 

[ameyer]

Ok first off you are way off on my intital statement...I am not saying that we improved greatly and that we are gonna kick **s and take names...I saw the same numbers you did, you have to also remember after a downward spiral from a 4 to a 1 I am happy to see anything above a 1 at this point. and 5 tenths may only be 5 tenths but it is 5 tenths we didn't have the last time...I never once stated we did a fantastic job and that we were the best in the market, cause I know we still have some improvements to make, and hopefully those improvements will help us gain some more ground, we are still in a rebuilding stage and with that said up is always better than down...

I will disagree with the WPSU comment as I know WGMR has more listners and you can not disagree with that...I mean can you pick up WPSU in Altoona, Clearfield, Lock Haven?

Also reread the posts Steve made the comments about niches not I....

 

[shilton]

Oh, relax. I shoulda tossed in an "LOL" or "ROFL" somewhere to make it clear I was just poking some fun. It's just so funny to see you two going on and on about what a Big CHR Battle you're having--and how you're gonna kick *ss & take names--and then have R&R post rankings with both of you down there behind "police calls." It started last summer, didn't it? That's two books, now--a full year of this--and you're both still down below The Mighty 1390.

Not to be mean, but if neither of you can get past WRSC (Mr. Nelson + 20 hours of network), something ain't working right, you know? And, yeah, if 50,000 watt WGMR can't figure out how to slip past tiny WMAJ (a total plug-n-play operation), well, it's gotta be embarrassing. But instead of sitting back and reflecting on it all for a moment, you're both back here trying to make everyone believe that it's chicken salad instead of ... well, what it really is. In fairness, the rumors about iPods killing CHR seem to have some basis in fact. You may both be flogging a dead format to death. It wouldn't be the first time.

AJ, I'm not "in love" with WPSU. I just know they've got 5 times your audience. That tells me that they know something you don't. Niches? Hey, what you call "niches" are getting double & triple the shares you're getting. Get out of your shells. Take a trip. Google "hot radio formats!" LOL... ROFL!

At first glance it looks like the ratings are telling us that Froggy, The Bus, Quick and 3WZ all have large audiences; Joe & Wowy are in the middle; and the lower rung is made up of The Rest.

But if you're down there among The Rest, a little humility might be the order of the day, that's all. And you've both been strutting & huffing & puffing for so long that when you both kicked into the spinning nonsense, I couldn't resist taking a little poke. My apologies if anyone's feelings were hurt. You can go back to "playing radio," now.

With all respect, anyone who wants to write off CHR as dead need only look at the books from a few other markets even right here within PA. Let's see how CHR fared in Altoona, WWOT fared very well indeed. Lancaster, PA, WLAN has stellar numbers again. In Allentown, WAEB is a success story. Ipods are not killing off anything. Sure, a certain segment of society has Ipods and plays with em just like some folks have satellite radio but its still a small number of people comparatively speaking. And who said we are at war? Ask AJ, ask Ted, ask my bosses. We all know each other and we all get along just fine. Heck not so long ago, G101 and B94.5 did a remote at the same place at virtually the same time and there was no knock-down drag out fight.

Will I be the first to admit I wish there were only 1 CHR in town instead of 2...sure. Would Froggy say they wish Joe didn't exist? You bet! Thats only natural. Why fragment your audience when you can have the whole piece of the pie? But we are both here and we both like what we do for differing reasons. And say what you will about the "mightly 1390", but they have a few things going for them. Talk Radio is HUGE all across the USA and whether you like him or not, Kevin Nelson is a staple of State College radio. Perhaps only Jeff Brown is just as well known. You just cannot compete on a level playing field with a guy who has been working the market for what 20 or more years. He is the closest thing we have to an Icon in these parts. Honestly I cannot understand why to date, Forever has not tossed one of the lessor FM's at it and created WMAJ-FM as I think talk on Fm here in the Valley would do very well indeed. In this life, you have to pick you place. We cannot all be #1 and I come from a belief that improvement is a positive thing so we'll take an upward trend over a spiral nosedive anytime. As for the "spinning", you haven't begun to see that yet. Just wait till those 4 stations I claim are "sharing" the top spot all claim to be the undisputed winner. Fact is, its the arbs. its the best we got, but its extremely flawed anyway and no one in this market is going to lose their job over it so why get bent out of shape about it?
Clearly the obvious issue here is that you don't seem to care for the format, so our "talk" is trivial. Well, perhaps to you. Perhaps we don't even care that WPSU exists either. Oh man..there I said it. Now I am in trouble.

 

[punjistx]

"I will disagree with the WPSU comment as I know WGMR has more listners and you can not disagree with that...I mean can you pick up WPSU in Altoona, Clearfield, Lock Haven?" AJ's quote.

AJ,
you can pickup PSU radio in Altoona, Clearfield, Huntingdon, Dubois, Kane and other places within the state. Sure, you have to change the dial from what you are use to around here and the signal may be weak from one of these xmitters, but they can still be heard.
102.5 FM Huntingdon
104.7 FM Clearfield
106.7 FM Altoona

 

[shilton]

"I will disagree with the WPSU comment as I know WGMR has more listners and you can not disagree with that...I mean can you pick up WPSU in Altoona, Clearfield, Lock Haven?" AJ's quote.

AJ,
you can pickup PSU radio in Altoona, Clearfield, Huntingdon, Dubois, Kane and other places within the state. Sure, you have to change the dial from what you are use to around here and the signal may be weak from one of these xmitters, but they can still be heard.
102.5 FM Huntingdon
104.7 FM Clearfield
106.7 FM Altoona

Ahh...but how many people are honestly listening? Thats the question. I can truthfully say in the 14 years I have lived in State College, I have never had it on once. I have listened to the Student Station WKPS perhaps a half dozen times and that too most regular folk don't even realize exists.

 

[ameyer]

I was unaware that there were different frequencies well that just shoots my theory in the **s!!!!...lol

 

[jackandcoke]

Wow. You guys are a trip! BTW, have you ever noticed that stadium at the corner of Porter & Park?

Gotta read a little more. Hell, even on this board there have been a bunch of discussions about how WPSU has been the REAL #1 in Arbitron's State College surveys for years and years. Here's the deal. If you ever see another Maximizer in your life, hit the "Stations" button and choose "All" instead of "In The Book." It'll give you the numbers for "all" the stations, including WPSU. Usually, they'll be the one on the top.

Or ask around a little more. One of you runs a business, don't you? Call WPSU and tell them you'd like to talk to somebody about running "underwriting" on the FM. They'll send a salesperson out and they'll show you their ratings. Usually, it'll be a bunch of number ones.

Who knows where they're ranked this time? It'll leak out, sooner or later. But put ten bucks on #1, just to be safe.