• Get involved.
    We want your input!
    Apply for Membership and join the conversations about everything related to broadcasting.

    After we receive your registration, a moderator will review it. After your registration is approved, you will be permitted to post.
    If you use a disposable or false email address, your registration will be rejected.

    After your membership is approved, please take a minute to tell us a little bit about yourself.
    https://www.radiodiscussions.com/forums/introduce-yourself.1088/

    Thanks in advance and have fun!
    RadioDiscussions Administrators

NY radio has nothing to offer

TheBigA said:
adma said:
That is, if such a "mass" exists anymore.

I think there is, and it still exists in some genres.

I agree with this. Rock in particular isn't mass. It's a niche for young whte men.

It wasn't always this way. What we now call classic rock had much more mass appeal when it was new compared to today's rock. Both a wider range of age and more appeal to women.

A lot of the newer rock sounds dark and angry. It has little chance of attracting anyone outside of angry young men.
 
Jay F said:
TheBigA said:
adma said:
That is, if such a "mass" exists anymore.

I think there is, and it still exists in some genres.

I agree with this. Rock in particular isn't mass. It's a niche for young whte men.

It wasn't always this way. What we now call classic rock had much more mass appeal when it was new compared to today's rock. Both a wider range of age and more appeal to women.

A lot of the newer rock sounds dark and angry. It has little chance of attracting anyone outside of angry young men.

But what are these "some genres"?

I mean, I agree about "rock" in this sense being a marginal niche taste; but this isn't even "rock" in the universal 60s/70s sense, that which led Casey Kasem et al to speak of a "rock era". In fact, if such is the case, why even fixate upon "rock" in the first place, except as a vestige of your/our youth?

Look: at least by juxtaposition and association, Michael Jackson was deemed a "rock artist" at the time. Maybe the whole problem is that we've lost that broad all-encompassing apron...
 
Jay F said:
It wasn't always this way. What we now call classic rock had much more mass appeal when it was new compared to today's rock. Both a wider range of age and more appeal to women.

I agree. Even though I mostly listen to Hip-Hop, sometimes I like listening to Classic Rock and I'm 27. For someone my age I have a diverse taste in music. I listen to Hip-hop, Oldies, Classic Rock, and some Country. Where I live in Central CT I can pick up 2 Classic Rock Stations - WPLR New Haven and Rock 102 Springfield and both are presets on my car radio. I started listening to Classic Rock when I was a teenager mostly because of my dad.

A lot of the newer rock sounds dark and angry. It has little chance of attracting anyone outside of angry young men.

I agree and that's why I won't ever put 106.9 The Rock WCCC on my radio. Also I recently listened to 5 mins of a Metal Show on 107.7 WFCS the radio station at Central CT State University and it was frieghtening.
 
After you get done with Creed and Korn, what do you build a 24/7 format around that can attract more than a 1 share?

WIYY in Baltimore, WCCC in Hartford, KBPI in Denver, WAAF in Boston (despite signal challenges and several rock competitors), KXXR in Minneapolis, WEBN in Cincinnati, WEDG in Buffalo, WXDX in Pittsburgh, KIOZ in San Diego, and many others seem to have figured it out.

The bottom line is WXRK (and WYSP in Philly, for that matter) suffered thanks to a bunch of hacks who made the most popular hard rock bands of today -- such as Disturbed, Slipknot, Godsmack, Mudvayne, Korn, Avenged Sevenfold, and others -- off limits to these stations. They steered clear of aggro rock during their second lives.

Never mind the fact that K-Rock's best ratings of the last 15 years came during times they played hard current rock heavily and generally steered clear of record store snob alternative acts and warmed-over mullet rock.

K-Rock v2.0 at first overdosed on the same batch of Coldplay clones that have never shown staying power on American radio (when Tracy Cloherty was at the helm), then gradually did a 180 and overdosed on the same batch of overplayed dinosaur rock from the 80's & early 90's.
 
NYC RADIO SUCKS heres what I listen to down here
106.9 WCCC F-ing rocks! A lot more during the night. always excited to get to danbury...
you can also listen to My show if your in CT Fridays 4-7pm on 91.7 WXCI danbury if you wanted to.
WLZX Lazer 99.3
WCYY
WTOS (not as good as when it was owned by CC
the Three I am always excited to listen to

I used to listen to K-rock
AS FOR Eddie Trunk on q-104.3 Fridays 11pm-2am BLAH BLAH BLAH... JUST SHUT THE ___ Up and play music eddie. unfortunately, its a 50/50 audience and I have to be up for work at 6am saturdays so I
 
I looked at WCCC's playlist the other day and thought, "Man, I wish we had a station like that here in New Jersey". This is a station that's not afraid to embrace the edgier rock acts of the past 20 years. There's very little overlap between what they play and what you'll find on your token classic rock station. The format actually works, but so few seem willing to give it a try.

The CBS model has failed, repeatedly. A few years ago, they returned K-Rock in NYC to the 92.3 frequency, recasting it as a station that shared about 80-90% of its playlist with classic rocker WAXQ and played about roughly 10 newer songs, always the safest options available (i.e. the single from AC/DC's latest album). This most recent incarnation lasted less than 2 years, with CBS opting to give the market another Top 40 station over attempting a different take on rock. They're handling WYSP in Philly the same way, gradually dropping any modern or edgier rock over time and becoming "The Rock You Grew Up With", a classic rock station that leans slightly younger than competitor WMGK (they play more '80s and grunge-era titles). This timid, tried-and-true approach is not paying off, as the station is in the cellar and plenty of rumors persist about possible format changes (the latest being a possible move of the AM sports station WIP to FM). It also bears mentioning that neither NYC nor Philly had a station that really focused on newer rock ... you've got WRFF in Philly (an Adult Rock Hits station that calls itself Alternative and plays slightly more newer titles than K-Rock did) and WRXP in NYC with a kitchen-sink approach to rock that doesn't work for most rock fans.

Proving that "chicken rock" is not just limited to CBS, it seems as if the rock format of choice in the NYC, NJ and Philly areas would be AOR - every Greater Media rock station falls into this category: WMMR in Philly, WDHA in Morristown (NJ), and WRAT in Belmar (NJ). All of these stations go really heavy on classic rock: Led Zeppelin, Aerosmith, The Doors, Rolling Stones, Pink Floyd, Guns N' Roses, Def Leppard, Black Crowes, Tom Petty, even Billy Squier and Bon Jovi! When it comes to newer rock acts, they all gravitate toward Nickelback, Hinder, 3 Doors Down, Daughtry, Shinedown, Theory Of A Deadman, Saving Abel, etc. - all of whom honestly sound the same to me. And they all have always shied away from Korn, Deftones, System Of A Down, Static-X, Slipknot, Mudvayne, Nonpoint, Five Finger Death Punch, Disturbed, giving little to no rotation to all of them, and butchering songs from some of these artists when they do play them (WRAT playing weak sauce Korn remixes and completely removing the bridge from Disturbed's "Down With The Sickness"). Sadly, where these stations are received, they are often the only one that plays any rock music from the last 15-20 years at all ... this definitely applies in Monmouth/Ocean NJ, where we lost the only Alternative station to an awful Top 40 format and classic rock formats abound.

In all of the markets that I mentioned previously, the only commercial FM that I can tolerate is WRXP. While they can be frustrating at times with predictable classic rock and jarring shifts among the titles they play (it's quite common to hear Elton John into New Order, for instance), they have a much deeper playlist than any of the other rock stations and they play a lot of acts that don't receive airtime anywhere else (not much edgier rock, but they are playing acts like Wilco, Phoenix, Sonic Youth, The Dead Weather, Company Of Thieves, Bell X1, etc.).

It's unfortunate that, instead of moving beyond the safe time-tested hits, everyone is either repeating the same pattern ad nauseum (Greater Media) or scrapping rock completely (CBS). What course of action do rock fans have? The only thing that I can propose is sending feedback to these companies or directly to the stations and make suggestions. Perhaps it will make an impact if another people respond, but the odds are against us. The only music radio that I can even tolerate around here is left of the dial, but most of what we get out here is either NPR or Christian Radio. One wonders if other areas can have Active and Alternative Rock stations that thrive, why can't we?
 
I had to run back to work so I had to finish up my Post fast...
I used to listen to 101.9 RXP but they are all over the place with rock. I would always hope they would play like a mudvayne or Disturbed song in the playlist then I would listen religiously IMHO just to wait to hear the next rippin rock song.
In other words, I am just looking for something that turns up the notch for active rock.
I try so hard to listen to 89.5 WSOU from NJ here in CT but WPKN kills any luck of getting it except in a stationary place where I can block WPKN.. same with WDHA 105.5. I remember hearing stories from 10+ years ago from people who actually listen to WSOU around CT. If I had to guess, WPKN was upgraded to a class B signal from Class A. anyone know the history of WPKN?

I would listen to Fm internet streams like WCYY, WCCC or WLZX but they all seam to stream at 24Kbps I wish they were 128KBPS streams.
I also cannot listen to any internet streams in the Greenwich CT area were I live because there in no cell service adaquate for online streaming. Too Many dropped calls at my house! cannot even use a cell phone here.

here are a few good online rockers I listen using Moodio on my BB storm:
Netrock101.com
play rock UK - Got it off itunes
purerockradio.net - a good stream from canada

these are just a few streams
 
Jay F said:
I agree with this. Rock in particular isn't mass. It's a niche for young whte men.

Not quite...it really depends on what sort of "rock" we are talking about. Metal and hard rock may be a niche for young white men, but indie/alternative/modern rock nowadays has a wider appeal than that limited demographic group.
 
Hey Jamie,

I live in Westchester County, a bit farther west than you are and in certain places in my house and especially in White Plains, Yonkers, and other places in those areas, WSOU and WDHA are listenable. On 88.1 (the Westchester Comm. College radio station) WARY, I believe they currently have a hard rock/metal show on Thursdays from 6-8 PM. They used to play a lot more rock a number of years ago, but if you can try to pick up 88.1 in Greenwich on a Thursday evening, let me know what you think. I believe they broadcast from Valhalla.
 
neo11 said:
Jay F said:
I agree with this. Rock in particular isn't mass. It's a niche for young whte men.

Not quite...it really depends on what sort of "rock" we are talking about. Metal and hard rock may be a niche for young white men, but indie/alternative/modern rock nowadays has a wider appeal than that limited demographic group.

I do agree with that. Bands like Kings of Leon for example, or just about anything heard on WRFF/Philly does have wider appeal. I should have stated it's the harder acts in particular that only attract the limited young male base.

Maybe if WRXP doesn't take off (although they got somewhat of a boost from the WXRK flip) they could move more towards the WRFF formula. It would still get criticism, but it does have potential.
 
Jay F said:
neo11 said:
Jay F said:
I agree with this. Rock in particular isn't mass. It's a niche for young whte men.

Not quite...it really depends on what sort of "rock" we are talking about. Metal and hard rock may be a niche for young white men, but indie/alternative/modern rock nowadays has a wider appeal than that limited demographic group.

I do agree with that. Bands like Kings of Leon for example, or just about anything heard on WRFF/Philly does have wider appeal. I should have stated it's the harder acts in particular that only attract the limited young male base.

Maybe if WRXP doesn't take off (although they got somewhat of a boost from the WXRK flip) they could move more towards the WRFF formula. It would still get criticism, but it does have potential.

Agreed, and I would argue that its appeal has grown in recent years, among both young men and women. If Emmis has shown this much patience with WRXP up until now only to achieve a 1.7, I do think going with a full-fledged new modern/alternative rock station should be something they should consider if ratings continue to remain low and stagnant.
 
WRXP launched about the same time as WNYZ. While their ratings are marginally higher than WNYZ, you must consider WNYZ's signal and dial position and unique format. 87.7 is really outperforming 101.9.
 
leave it to NIck to shamelessly plug pulse 87.......fyi pulse does a .1 to rxp's 1.7...yes really out performing
 
Nick said:
WRXP launched about the same time as WNYZ. While their ratings are marginally higher than WNYZ, you must consider WNYZ's signal and dial position and unique format. 87.7 is really outperforming 101.9.

Even though the alleged "realists" will disagree, I would say that from a ratings standpoint, and considering the huge advantages that 101.9 has (arguably a more "mainstream" format, a full-powered ESB signal, lots of initial publicity, a well-known morning host, etc.) Pulse *has* done comparatively better. Or, to put it another way, I don't think that Pulse, if it were on 87.7, would do worse than a 1.7 (maybe not a lot better, but I doubt it would be lower), nor do I think RXP, if it were on 87.7, would do better than an 0.8.

And as I'm typing this, here comes one of the self-proclaimed 'realists' with another fresh-brewed cup of haterade.....if we're talking about share, yes, Pulse has an 0.8 and not an 0.1. If we're talking about the total rating, then yes, Pulse has an 0.1, but RXP will be far lower than 1.7 as well....probably in the low 0's as well.

And of course, the self-proclaimed realists once again ignore the huge discrepancies between the two signals...but then again, that would be inconvenient, wouldn't it?
 
Neo ... what did you do in radio that makes you such an antagonist? It's all about you're raving about something you don't quite understand, and you are the one drinking the hater-ade, because you won't listen.

You need a ride in the "waaahm-bulance." You have nothing concrete, statistical or factual to back up your impassioned, but false, reality .... and you don't like that. It's ok, sir, but I'm surprised, being that you didn't even know that ratings are "estimates" and that the 12+ numbers are meaningless, how you come up with your "facts." I do hope your career in statistical probability and analysis is working out.
 
oaktree said:
Neo ... what did you do in radio that makes you such an antagonist? It's all about you're raving about something you don't quite understand, and you are the one drinking the hater-ade, because you won't listen.

You need a ride in the "waaahm-bulance." You have nothing concrete, statistical or factual to back up your impassioned, but false, reality .... and you don't like that. It's ok, sir, but I'm surprised, being that you didn't even know that ratings are "estimates" and that the 12+ numbers are meaningless, how you come up with your "facts." I do hope your career in statistical probability and analysis is working out.

It's you that is the antagonist, and who apparently doesn't know to read.

A) I'm quite aware that the 12+ numbers are meaningless...I think I've posted previously to that effect SEVERAL times on numerous threads. It would be nice if you took a moment to read and to look before spouting off.

B) Yes, I was aware that ratings are "estimates" and always have been. Another attempt to discredit me falls flat, but it's apparent that you haven't actually read what I've been writing.

C) What exactly about my reality is "false"? The fact that ad revenue in the NYC market has been on the decline? The fact that there's many companies in radio that are in serious trouble? The fact that there's other stations that are doing horribly that are not facing nearly the same amount of hate and attacks as Pulse? You're the one that's not backing up your insults and attacks with anything concrete other than your apparent dislike of me and my opinion. You have, however, attacked me, made speculations about my career, and put words into my mouth that I never even stated, while ignoring plenty of things I've written - fact and opinion - when they are inconvenient to you.
 
SoulCrusher said:
I looked at WCCC's playlist the other day and thought, "Man, I wish we had a station like that here in New Jersey".

The interesting thing about most of those stations on the list of rock stations is (1) They're all Top 10 with good solid shares, and (2) about half of them are owned by Clear Channel. So they seem to have a handle on the format. Too bad there isn't a CC station in the NY area that they could blow up.
 
TheBigA said:
My problem with rock music over the last 15 years is there is no one single modern artist who everyone knows and loves.  There is no modern U-2, Springsteen, or Eagles.  The music industry has moved away from creating that kind of artist. 

Radiohead and Foo Fighters.

...and as much as I hate to admit it...Linkin Park
 
Status
This thread has been closed due to inactivity. You can create a new thread to discuss this topic.


Back
Top Bottom